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Boy it's a good thing those votes came out in favor of Prosser

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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 08:57 PM
Original message
Boy it's a good thing those votes came out in favor of Prosser
or the Republicans might have thought it was voter fraud.




We're fucked. Either way. If this was fraud then we know our votes don't count. And if it wasn't then half the goddamn people in Wisconsin think Walker is right.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
1. Not half the people in Wisconsin. Half the voters after a campaign
in which the Rethugs outspent the Democrats by 2 to 1.
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Which tells me what?
That even after seeing what Walker is doing, we still couldn't pull out enough people or enough money to deal with the problem.


Sorry if I'm pessimistic but it's been a pretty shitty day :(
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Imajika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
2. Either way, half the voting public in Wisconsin think Walker is right...
If tomorrow 10,000 votes turn up for Kloppenburg, the race is STILL virtually 50/50.

If after the canvassing and recounts Kloppenburg wins, it will only be by a slim margin. The state effectively split 50/50 on this referendum on Walker's union busting agenda.

This is the depressing part about all of this. Even a close win was a disappointment for me. We had the energy, emotion, organization, and momentum, and still couldn't persuade half of Wisconsin's voting public that what Walker was doing was a travesty.
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Melissa G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Maybe, Maybe not.
I hope we have some serious investigation of this election. Not that Black Boxes give us much trail. :grr: Unverifiable elections are the biggest travesty.
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Imajika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. They are not black boxes...
From what I understand, Wisconsin has a paper trail. This is not about the election machinery, just about reporting vote totals.

This was a case of an entire city's votes not being reported.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. The machines that count those votes are computers
and yes, they are hackable.

And a paper trail that is based on hackable vote totals is worthless unless you want to build a fire.
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Imajika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. This particular issue has nothing to do with machines...
It has to do with reporting vote totals. It is about an entire city's votes not being counted in the overall total. Period.

If you want to discuss the machines that is a different matter. My understanding is Wisconsin has paper ballots or at least a paper trail.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Secret vote counting is what allows these @ssholes to screw with vote totals.
Machines are not another matter, they're the same matter, faith based elections.

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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. Even a close win was a disappointment for me
Exactly. This is how little this means to the average non involved American. Not to mention I was told that the Repugs outspent the Dems 2 to 1, and if that is the case then we are screwed because we'll never have the money the republicans do.

This sucks.
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Imajika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. No, it's worse than you think..
Edited on Thu Apr-07-11 09:36 PM by Imajika
We may have actually outspent the Republicans and STILL weren't able to convince half the Wisconsin voting public how bad Walker's agenda is.

I really don't know the numbers and it is possible the Teabaggers outspent us, but my understanding is our efforts on behalf of Kloppenburg were well funded.

The fact that this election was even close shows just how much work we have to do.

edited: Just saw Ed put up the numbers and we were outspent 2 to 1, so at least we know you were right and it was one of the reasons this was so close.
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coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. Oh, please. She 'forgot' to 'save' her 'Access database'? Give me
a friggin' break. It's such a disgustingly transparent lie that it defies description. (Technical note: Insert queries into a MS Access database do not require saving, the way one 'saves' a Word document or Excel spreadsheet. The mere pressing of the 'Enter' key inserts the record or records into the database through an underlying SQL insert query. Those records are then in the database until they are deleted by use of an underlying SQL delete query. The technical word for this process of inserting the records into an MS Access database and thereby saving them is a 'commit'.)

Nickolaus is lying through her teeth about this and the U.S. Dept. of Justice needs to land on her immediately like a ton of bricks.

Prosser won his last election with 99.5% of the vote. If I were a Wisconsin Repuke, I'd be shitting my pants right about now at the thought of the tsunami that's coming with the recalls and 2012.
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Imajika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. She didn't report the totals...
Period. She's completely incompetent. Unfortunately, this is an easy issue to check and verify as an entire city's totals were not reported. This is not about digging into some machines to see if they have been tampered with. This is not about magically finding votes. This is about REPORTING vote totals.

If you want to argue about the machines themselves, that is an entirely different issue and does not appear to have anything to do with how these new votes were added into the total.
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coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. What you call 'incompetence' I call 'possible fraud'. I'm relying
Edited on Thu Apr-07-11 09:36 PM by coalition_unwilling
on second-hand reports of what she said about how she didn't 'save' her 'Access database.' Trust me, that's a flat-out lie, as any DBA or person offering Tech Support for MS Access will tell you.

On edit: In case I didn't make myself clear, if she's lying about 'saving' to her Access database, what else is she lying about? That's where Holder and the U.S. DofJ need to come in, imho.
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Frank Cannon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Hell, anyone who's even USED Access knows what blatant horseshit this is.
But Republicans always assume that everyone else is just as stupid and evil as they are.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. And You Seem To trust That The Belatedly Produced Totals Are Accurate As Stated, Sir
There does not seem any pressing reason to believe that.
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Imajika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. It's not that I trust them, I have no doubt they'd steal the election if they could...
..but this is NOT about voting machines. This is about an entire city's votes not being reported. It is not something that is difficult to check. The Democratic canvass member agreed with the new totals and said as much in the press conference.

I am all for an investigation. This woman appears incompetent. Perhaps she did try to pull something sneaky like adding the vote totals from Brookfield into another batch of totals and then claiming that the totals weren't counted. I don't know. What I do know is the canvass and the Democratic member of the canvass appear to confirm the new numbers.

Again, this won't be hard to check. As best I know, Wisconsin does have a paper trail.
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tsuki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
3. Election fraud.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
5. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
8. They didn't have the turnout for this to be remotely possible.
This is bullshit.
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. It could have been done by remote.
All they have to do is get within a block or two to send the transmission signal.
We've been yelling about this for years.
No one is listening.

A paper ballot is the only way to go.
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. I was told they had paper ballots...
PeaceNikki has been all over this. She's usually got good info so it looks like they might actually be legit.

Like I said, either way, we're fucked.
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. The tallys are done by computer, therefore, they are accessible to fraud.
Nonetheless.
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