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Dems need to interview the Dem representative to the Waukesha canvass board

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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 06:08 PM
Original message
Dems need to interview the Dem representative to the Waukesha canvass board
What is her story? Does she agree that the mistake was valid? Does she have the skills to make that determination? Anyone in WI know who this woman is?

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PeaceNikki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
1. Chair of my CD is talking to them as I type.
Edited on Thu Apr-07-11 06:09 PM by PeaceNikki
He said "Apparently the count tapes and the machine counts didn't match. This raised the warning flag for the canvass."
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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I hate to pre-judge, but the woman looked extremely old and I wonder if she
Edited on Thu Apr-07-11 06:11 PM by Vinnie From Indy
has any skills at all with basic database software and other specific software used in the election. Maybe she was simply steamrolled by the clerk and the GOP rep. I would really like for someone to interview her and find these things out.

Cheers!
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. But how come yesterday no one noticed that a whole town's votes were missing?
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PeaceNikki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. She said they noticed yesterday around noon, called GAB but waited until reviewed line by line with
ballots to go to media.
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
21. A woman from Brookfield called Chicago CPT radio show and stated that Brookfield ran out of paper
Edited on Thu Apr-07-11 07:48 PM by riderinthestorm
ballots and went to a DRE machine.

That's what's raising my red flag. Does your Chair have any information about that?
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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. Very interesting. -nt
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monmouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
3. There will be a serious investigation, right? I mean enough already....n/t
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #3
23. Probably three years from now, after the damage is done. nt
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
6. The live feed clearly showed the GOP clerk/idiot shooing the Dem canvass member away from the mic
Edited on Thu Apr-07-11 06:19 PM by brentspeak
when the press began to asking more probing questions from the elderly lady.
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. "...showed her being shoo-ed away ..."
Maybe they didn't want to scare the children...
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
8. Shouldn't it be easy enough to figure out by comparing past turnouts?
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PeaceNikki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Ward by ward in November 2010 shows about 20k voted in that race in Brookfield.
Edited on Thu Apr-07-11 06:27 PM by PeaceNikki
So 14k for this race jives.
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karnac Donating Member (495 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. nate silver's opinion. via twitter..
http://twitter.com/fivethirtyeight

# So I don't think there's any conspiracy here ... Waukesha's vote total had been slightly lower than you might expect.
about 1 hour ago via web

# Before missing votes were found, Waukesha's turnout had been 7.5% of WI's. Versus 7.8% in Pres '08, 8.7% in Gov '10, 8.7% in Feb. election.
about 1 hour ago via web

# The numbers being floated about missing votes in Brookfield seem reasonable. Would be ~11% of Waukesha vote, same as in Prez election in 08.
about 1 hour ago via web
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Thanks.
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. This was state supreme court election, not a presidential or even a guber election
This kind of election never generates the type of vote totals that the big ones do. Silver is comparing apples and oranges and doesn't know what he's talking about in this case.
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PeaceNikki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. There were 20k in November from that city.
The #'s jive.

I know it's not what we WANT to hear, but the Waukesha Democrats are on it.
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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Does the Dem representative that actually witnessed the canvass have ANY
skills with database software? What is her story? What is her name?

Go Waukesha Dems!
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PeaceNikki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Ramona Kitzinger
I don't know her "story", but my the Democratic chair of my CD has spoken with her.
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FBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. This wasn't a normal supreme court election - turnout was comparatively high
but that doesn't matter in this case, because that data is just saying what percent of the overall vote the county usually represents (and what percentage of the county vote usually comes from that town).

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karnac Donating Member (495 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. more specific "info" HERE
Edited on Thu Apr-07-11 07:03 PM by karnac
on how this happened.(i googled Ramona Kitzinger)

http://elections.wispolitics.com/2011/04/waukesha-count...

5:51 PM: Waukesha County clerk apologizes for 'human error' that led to reporting incorrect vote totals

Waukesha County Clerk Kathy Nickolaus apologized this evening for human error that she blamed for failing to include the city of Brookfield's vote totals in the tally she reported to the media Election Night.

The mistake and two other changes in the county helped net Justice David Prosser 7,583 votes over JoAnne Kloppenburg and swung the race dramatically in his favor.

Nickolaus said she failed to properly save a spreadsheet after inputting the Brookfield numbers Election Night, leading to the error. Once she ran the report to show the aggregate numbers for the county, she assumed incorrectly the Brookfield numbers were included.

more...............

The wild swing in Prosser's favor immediately raised concerns among Dems, who pointed out Nickolaus is a former staffer for the Assembly Republican Caucus who was granted immunity in the investigation into allegations of illegal campaign activities on state time.

Ramona Kitzinger, the Democratic member of the county board of canvass, defended the process. She agreed with Nickolaus that the board "went over everything and made sure that all the numbers jived up, and they did."

"I'm the Democratic vice chair of Waukesha County, so I'm not going to stand here and tell you something that's not true," Kitzinger said.
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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Does Kitzinger have the skills to even make that determination?
She may be convinced the process was fair, but would she really know if she was hoodwinked?
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FBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. You mean can she add?
You don't need any database skills for a canvas. You're just comparing the official reports from each precinct to a table and then adding them up.
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PeaceNikki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. This ^
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. Former chair of the Waukesha Cty Democratic party disagrees with you:


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/drsolo/david-pross...

drsolo 45 minutes ago (9:14 PM)
61 Fans
I was chair of the Waukesha Democratic party for a couple years back in the 90's and I dont think she (Ramona Kitzinger) knows what she is talking about. There have been irregularities in the vote count in Waukesha County for the last 20 years and nobody has really taken a close look at any of it. There are optical scanning machines and paper ballots, they need to be hand counted AND the voter logs need to be checked carefully against the ballot counts. It really is too bad that there arent TIME STAMPS on the ballots as they go thru the machine.
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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. "irregularities in the vote count in Waukesha County for the last 20 years"
I am not surprised. Why people here continue to blindly defend the integrity of elections in their area without truly having a clue, is beyond me. It is also irresponsible.

The Optical scan ballots receive "special treatment" in a Wisconsin recount. Wisconsin requires a court order if you want to count opti-scan ballots by hand - otherwise they are stuck back into the tabulator/computer and recounted via diebold/ES&S software...
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KeepItReal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. +1
Check the voter logs to see how many folks actually cast votes
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PeaceNikki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. lol, some anonymous dude on HuffPo? I'll trust my Democratic CD chair who was there.
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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. the one who backs up a known Rep crook because the numbers "jive"
great. This is what we have representing us in Waukesha co...
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PeaceNikki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. The one who won't disenfranchise a whole city because she doesn't like their votes.
Yeah, her.
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #30
38. And the name of this Democratic CD chair?
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FBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. "Irregularities" is one thing.
An entire missing town is something else entirely.

This one is pretty close to impossible to gimmick. They may be using it to distract attention from something less obvious, but there's no way that we're going to reverse these 7,000 or so.

It really is too bad that there arent TIME STAMPS on the ballots as they go thru the machine.

That would come dangerously close to being able to identify who each voter voted for. Are you this is a democrat proposing that?
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karnac Donating Member (495 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. Well,she IS a lawyer.
( googled that, sorry no link it got kinda scary how much you can find out about her)

All she has to do really is look at the data BEFORE the silly clerk added them up on a spreadsheet and then forgot to save the final result and add it up herself.

It's actually the kind of error I've made myself. not saving the final resulting spreadsheet. Got audited for it one year.

what's annoying to me is that they discovered the error YESTERDAY but kept their mouth shut till today. wish they had given us a heads up.
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zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. and wasn't it all of the conservative talkers who were saying
things like "just watch all those liberals ... they're manufacturing votes as we speak" ...

and, I heard on Stephanie Miller this morning, a clip of a RWer saying, not verbatim, "So, you have a bunch of public employees securing the ballots, and a bunch of public employees locking the ballots up, and public employees guarding the polling station where the ballots are stored. I'm sure that you trust that Obama's Department of Justice will investigate the matter thoroughly" (the RWer was definitely using sarcasm here ... it was so heavy with sarcasm that it shorted out my PC's speaker ...)

Where's all their talk about "fraudulent voting" now?
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karnac Donating Member (495 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #24
36. Um we are doing it now heh
Edited on Thu Apr-07-11 10:38 PM by karnac
Actually, for over a decade the Republicans had been trying to prove voter fraud in Wisconsin. Even formed an task force to prove it, particularly in Milwaukee. It could produced so little it eventually disbanded.

Did note something they said though. That it became impossible to prove because voting records were so shoddy AND the personnel in the clerk's were so obviously incompetent. Maybe purposely.

Deja Vu no?
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zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. hey ... isn't the person who "found" the votes a ...
PUBLIC EMPLOYEE???
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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #8
27. I don't know how easy it would be. This election, though not Presidential
became extremely important and generated record high turnouts in many areas.
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #27
34. Wouldn't increased interest be pretty much proportional though?
Edited on Thu Apr-07-11 10:08 PM by dkf
If turnout was higher in every county except one that would be a red flag surely.

Likewise if lower it would probably be pretty proportional.

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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. In a perfect world - or state
I just wonder if this is reliable enough method given the uniqueness of this election, and potential unknown variables... eg, Waukesha county votes republican for the most part, but let's say that this spring, some who may have voted Repub decided they didnt like what Walker or their party was doing, so they just stayed home.
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