Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Wind power: Even worse than you thought

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » General Discussion Donate to DU
 
RC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 05:51 PM
Original message
Wind power: Even worse than you thought
"A new analysis of wind energy supplied to the UK National Grid in recent years has shown that wind farms produce significantly less electricity than had been thought, and that they cause more problems for the Grid than had been believed."
>SNIP<
"Average output from wind was 27.18% of metered capacity in 2009, 21.14% in 2010, and 24.08% between November 2008 and December 2010 inclusive.

In general, then, one should assume that a wind farm will generate no more than 25 per cent of maximum capacity over time (and indeed this seems set to get worse as new super-large turbines come into service). Even over a year this will be up or down by a few per cent, making planning more difficult.

It gets worse, too, as wind power frequently drops to almost nothing. It tends to do this quite often just when demand is at its early-evening peak:"

More fun reading at:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/04/07/wind_power_actu... /

And don't forget the comments. Especially Sean Baggaley 1 WTF? Seriously? # Posted Thursday 7th April 2011 12:23 GMT
Read it slowly for comprehension. Or maybe even read it out loud so it sticks better.
The truth is, the nuclear problems in Japan pales in comparison to the almost 30,000 people that died due to the earthquake and tsunami and the massive damage they caused.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
1. earthquakes and tsunamis don't cause birth defects. Or cancer two years later.
Edited on Thu Apr-07-11 05:54 PM by KittyWampus
As for the bullshit about windfarms... there is a multitude of alternative energy sources.

No one is suggesting that windfarms are the sole answer.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
2. Nuclear problems pale in comparison? They're both tragic, but the nuclear "problems"
have world-wide and long-term ramifications. Apples and oranges.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
3. What exactly motivates the pro-nuclear propaganda at every turn?
Is the continuing meltdown and generational disaster for the Japanese people really the right time to go into this.

Any critique of efficiency or other problems with alternative energies merely highlights the enormous need to move resources into their development -- not just wind but solar and solar-hydrogen and billions for R&D. And an adaptation of the transport system especially, as well as many other measures on the consumption side.

The obstacles at the beginnings of the new energy system do not serve as any kind of basis for yet another irrational told-you-so for pro-nuclear squawking points.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. because you whiny treehugging hippies, with your pedestrian concerns about 'children' and
'radiation', your endless, bedwetting hand-wringing about 'strontium', and 'cesium', and 'plutonium', are threatening to snatch the profit and vitality right out of the clutching, grasping hands of the cleanestest, safestest, most awesomest form of power ever known to man!


it's not fair!!! :cry:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
4. What exactly motivates the pro-nuclear propaganda at every turn?
Is the continuing meltdown and generational disaster for the Japanese people really the right time to go into this.

Any critique of efficiency or other problems with alternative energies merely highlights the enormous need to move resources into their development -- not just wind but solar and solar-hydrogen and billions for R&D. And an adaptation of the transport system especially, as well as many other measures on the consumption side.

The obstacles at the beginnings of the new energy system do not serve as any kind of basis for yet another irrational told-you-so for pro-nuclear squawking points.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Prometheus Bound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
5. Oh dear. He's the one who wrote: "Fukushima is a triumph for nuke power: Build more reactors now!"
Fukushima is a triumph for nuke power: Build more reactors now!
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/14/fukushiima_anal...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. drinking the kool-aid?
dare I say, that fucker's been mainlining it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Prometheus Bound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. LOL
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 06:28 PM
Response to Original message
6. Oops. The article relies on a report genertaed by Stuart Young Consulting.
Last time Stuart Young completed research on wind farm output an independent analysis showed serious discrepancies.

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/Living/Outdoors/article/126...

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
7. ...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
8. Yet in the Pacific NW, wind exceeded targets, which have now been increased
http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2011/03/bp...
He also pointed out an irony the growth of wind power is far faster than expected and "presents new challenges."

One of the biggest is finding a way to fit all the power through a network of transmission lines that has a fixed limit. The problem is heightened by the fact that peak production from BPA's hydro dams often occurs at the same time wind farms are also generating their maximum.

To illustrate the scope, Wright told the subcommittee that by the end of 2010, BPA had connected 3,400 megawatts of wind power to its grid. "What is remarkable about this milestone is that only four years ago, a regional wind ... task force thought that 3,000 megawatts of wind connection ... was a reasonable target to be accomplished by 2020."

The expectation now, he said, is that 10,000 megawatts could be online by 2017.



http://www.bpa.gov/corporate/BPANews/ArticleTemplate.cf...

Wind power on BPA system sets new record

Renewable resource blows past 3,000 megawatts BPA dispatchers in the Dittmer Control Center cheered as wind generation on BPA's transmission system surpassed 3,000 megawatts for the first time. This is enough electricity to serve a city three times the size of Seattle for an hour.

The growth of Northwest wind power continues to exceed expectations of just a few short years ago. Over 1,500 megawatts have been added in the last two years. Because BPA owns and operates three-quarters of the Northwest's high-voltage transmission, the agency is playing a vital role in facilitating the development of this renewable energy.

"The wind resource connected to BPA's transmission grid is growing at an astonishing pace," said Brian Silverstein, senior vice president for BPA Transmission Services. "Even at this growth rate, our concerted efforts to meet the challenges associated with this growth and wind's variability are working."

Wind generation on BPA's system surpassed the new milestone at 2:55 p.m., on Tuesday, Feb. 22, reaching a new all-time peak of 3,006 megawatts. BPA expects to have between 5,000 and 6,000 megawatts of this clean, emission-free, renewable resource connected to its system by 2013, several years ahead of earlier estimates.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Snoutport Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
9. giant turbines are for energy companies to make money...how about little tiny turbines for homes
if every house had it's own little windmill on top it would probably work terrific! giant turbines are so energy companies can own another energy source...but this one belongs to all of us. wind and sun...one thing we all get to share without paying someone to provide it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. but but but but how would the power company make money from you then?
:evilgrin:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
txlibdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #9
19. Small turbines: just be careful to check the specs, especially the "cut in speed"
Small wind turbines are great but you have to temper your expectations or you'll be disappointed. The companies that build them rate the output for 28 mph winds, so you'll almost never get the "rated" output from them unless there is a storm brewing. Follow your local codes and plan to put the tower on the location with the best winds --to do that you'll need to buy an anemometer to meter the wind speed and direction, get one that sends minute-by-minute data to your computer so you can track it over several days. You'll be glad you did.

Cut in speed is important: that is the speed at which the blades start turning. Some small wind turbines have a cut in speed as high as 12 mph. Many have cut in speeds between 8 and 10 mph. But one starts turning at 1/2 mph (http://www.windtronics.com /), and costs around $6,500.

Base your decision on the wind speeds in your area, along with your local codes, plus the anemometer readings, and then pick the wind turbine that will provide the most power for your situation. Choose the wind turbine based on the specs and you will be much happier with your purchase.

There are several wind turbines within a few miles of my house and it breaks my heart to see them just sitting there, not spinning, even though the wind is blowing. I would hate for you to have to look out your window and see nothing but an expensive lawn ornament.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Electric Monk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
10. SoCal Windspill Sparks Huge Solar Radiation Leaks
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
11. the nuclear problem 'pales in comparison' - right NOW.
what happens 30 years from now, when the exclusion zone is still uninhabitable?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
13. Smithers, is that you?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. I think it's Montgomery Burns himself.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
15. 'half-baked, goggle boxed do-gooders telling EVERYBODY it's BAD for you..."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Jul 10th 2014, 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » General Discussion Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC