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nalnn Donating Member (528 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 12:55 PM
Original message
When wives are set on fire for their dowry
Source: AsiaNews.it

At least 249 women were killed in 2010 for their dowry, this according to the Bangladesh Society for the Enforcement of Human Rights (BSEHR). Whether out of anger or for vengeance, husbands often beat their wives or set them on fire with kerosene, sometimes with the complicity of their families. In some cases, women are strangled and then hanged to simulate a suicide. The figures are incomplete though because many cases are not reported. In fact, if in 2007, there were 145 recorded cases, dropping to 114 in 2008 and 109 in 2009, the numbers last year showed a marked reversal. At the same time, the BSEHR also reported that last year at least 122 women were tortured.

Under the existing dowry system, a brides family must pay her future groom a sum of money. The practice first appeared some 50 years ago. Before that, would-be husbands had to pay instead a bride price to the womans family in accordance with Islamic law. The change appears to be the result of an imbalance in the countrys demography, as there were more women than men of marriageable age at that time. For example in 1950, the population of women of marriageable age was 10 per cent more than that of eligible men; by 1975, the percentage had risen to 43.

However, men do not necessarily demand a dowry before marriage; in some cases, they do it afterwards to assert their authority over their wives when the latter do not obey. Violence can ensue in a number of situations in a society where tradition places the husband in a position of superiority.

Not all families are willing or financially capable of paying a dowry for their daughters, a situation that some husbands see as an insult that calls for vengeance.

Read more: http://www.asianews.it/news-en/When-wives-are-set-on-fi...



Un-freaking-believable.

At least no Korans were burned.
:sarcasm:
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TygrBright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
1. Excuse me. Is there a connection...
...between disgusting cultural acquiescence in misogyny and murder, and minimizing the disgusting prejudice against an entire faith?

I'm not getting it.

bewilderedly,
Bright
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nalnn Donating Member (528 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. No
Maybe you missed the sarcasm.

The problem lies in the fact that they have twisted the original teaching of the Koran regarding dowries and the horrible deaths of these women is the result.
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TygrBright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. It looked very much to me...
...as though you think that buring Korans is trivial or worthy of sarcasm, in comparison with the appalling acts of misogyny and murder perpetrated by some Muslims.

Sorry if I got that wrong.

uncertainly,
Bright
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. that buring Korans is trivial or worthy of sarcasm
Edited on Thu Apr-07-11 01:25 PM by AlbertCat
It is.

Burning a book or two when there are millions of copies of the same to be had everywhere. Pretty trivial

Burning battered wives-for-sale.... not so much.
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TygrBright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. I don't agree. As a violent expression of bitter prejudice against an entire group...
...of people, book-burning is not trivial, not trivial at all.

It is but a small step from burning books to burning human beings, as we learned during the 20th Century.

sadly,
Bright
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #11
41. What's disgusting is pretending that burning some bundled pieces of paper is the moral equivalent of
burning a human being - and that's precisely the equivalence you are drawing. :thumbsdown:
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #10
25. "wives-for-sale"
That's not how the dowry system works. The dowry is money given to the groom by the parents of the bride. It's like a more formal version of the Western custom that the parents of the bride pay for the wedding and that the married couple receives gifts.
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nalnn Donating Member (528 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. Let me clarify
I'm a pretty devout person. Pious, not so much :)

If someone burned a bible, the only 'Holy' book I maintain, I would not feel anger, hatred, or the need for vengeance. I would feel sorrow. Sorrow and pity for the one who would destroy such a beautiful work of literature.

As to your post further down about book burning leading to people burning, read the article; It already has.

As for this being cultural, yes, it is. But look deeper at the article and the studies of marriage traditions in Bangladesh. There is a common thread.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. This is about money and the lack of value of women.
It is a tradition thousands of years old in that area. This is the culture whose ancient literature instructs men that women mean YES when they say NO.

How do you tell people that their ancient books NEED to be burned? You can't. So every generation is taught the same disgusting philosophy guaranteed to keep them in the dark ages.

Not much in love with that neighborhood.
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nalnn Donating Member (528 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Indeed
Edited on Thu Apr-07-11 02:07 PM by nalnn
But I must disagree with the money statement. It's about power. I would wager that even the wealthy bastards there burn their wives too.

Don't think I am blaming their religion I am not. I am saying that the patriarchal system endowed by it certainly doesn't help the women any.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #18
39. Religion is the enforcement arm of patriarchy.
Somehow it always agrees that Father Knows Best.
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ismnotwasm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #4
21. That-- and
The burning of Korans get world wide attention, as it should, but the burning of human beings aka 'wives' gets very little. I suspect more woman have been burned than books.

And you are so right. The teachings have been twisted. The Muslims I know are appalled at these kind of horrors and consider them inimical to their faith.
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
2. Barbarians
they don't deserve families.
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Cronus Protagonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
3. God is love.
qed
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al bupp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
5. 'Tis telling, sir, that the burning of a book...
seems to rouse more passion among the Islamic faithful of the Afghani hinterlands than does the burning and abuse of women. One has to wonder how such can come about. "Traditional" culture often seems little more than an excuse for the routine brutality of men against women.

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TygrBright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Acts of violation against a person's faith USUALLY rouse more passion...
...than atrocities perpetrated under the "traditions" or "beliefs" that those atrocities are justified or permitted by that faith.

It's peculiar, certainly.

But there are many, many, many Muslims who do NOT believe that their faith condones or justifies such atrocities. The assumption that they are not roused to a greater passion by those atrocities than by the desecration of their holy book appears unsubstantiated.

You will find, generally, that the Opus Dei wackjobs, and the Pope-is-always-right subset of Catholics are far more outraged by anti-Christian prejudice than they are by the disgusting acts of the molesters they grudgingly allow to be aberrant. Do you think this means that all Christians regard the cover-up and condoning of a culture of child molestation with less passion than they regard anti-Christian prejudice?

curiously,
Bright
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #5
43. Well the Koran is important
women . . . well they're like farm animals. And not particularly high ranking farm animals at that.
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
7. Disgusting barbarians
I'm sure people will be running along shortly to try and deflect.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
8. Male-supremacist concepts are the core of organized patriarchal religions ....
Edited on Thu Apr-07-11 01:08 PM by defendandprotect
and the only way this system -- which we call patriarchy -- can be kept in place

anywhere is via violence, intimidation, murder of women --

The insanity involved in male-supremacy knows no bounds -- even to the point of

eliminating so many females that there is no way for males to know marriage, fatherhood.

Evidently, ego is more important to them than life -- life-affirming emotions?


There was another story the other day where female embryos/fetuses were found buried --

evidently the result of ultrasound tests which reveal gender!!

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BOG PERSON Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
12. dowry killings happen very frequently all over south asia.
it is not a religious thing as such, it is a cultural thing.
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. But when the religion teaches that women are inferior
Edited on Thu Apr-07-11 02:09 PM by riderinthestorm
and that patriarchy extends into the very fabric of the culture (like in Islamic Bangladesh which was the focus of the article), it sure makes it "easier" for these kinds of killings to occur.

ETA, I cringe when someone says "but it's their culture!" like we should just excuse this kind of abhorrent behavior. I'm not sure if you were responding like that and I'm sorry if I came across acrimoniously but cultural relativists irritate the shit out of me.
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #14
24. all religions teach us that women are inferior. nt
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
16. The Obama Administration needs to arm these women n/t
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
17. k/r n/t
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
19. Yes, in this modern day and age people still behave in barbaric
and crude ways toward relationships. Why not call it what it is - slavery.
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
20. AT LEAST an eye-for-an-eye is called for here.
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hayu_lol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. In Libya, 1962, brideprice was $700...
money was used by bride's parents to buy 24 karat gold bracelets that the bride wore to show the family's wealth. In the event of divorce, she took the gold with her back to her family.

Lots of single men in Libya at that time who could not manage the brideprice so had to stay single.
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
23. what does this have to do with the koran? the dowry is an old hindu tradition
in middle eastern islamic countries, dowries are in the other direction
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. It's in the article
"Under the existing dowry system, a brides family must pay her future groom a sum of money. The practice first appeared some 50 years ago. Before that, would-be husbands had to pay instead a bride price to the womans family in accordance with Islamic law. The change appears to be the result of an imbalance in the countrys demography, as there were more women than men of marriageable age at that time. For example in 1950, the population of women of marriageable age was 10 per cent more than that of eligible men; by 1975, the percentage had risen to 43."

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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. yes, i understand the article. i still dont get how this directly relates to the koran
Edited on Thu Apr-07-11 02:32 PM by La Lioness Priyanka
since in that region, there are plenty of hindu dowry related burnings and dowry originated with hinduism not islam.

also if you read it, it clearly says that the situation was different when the followed the koran. it was infact better.

this is clearly and economic issue and a cultural patriarchy issue. your reference to the koran doesn't make it an islamic issue.
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Women are inferior in Islam in the Quran. So in Bangladesh, it's both cultural
and religious patriarchy at work. A double whammy for women imho which gives men the feeling of greater societal latitude to pull bullshit like this.

The article is about Bangladesh. My comments were in relation to the article which is about dowry killings in this Islamic country.
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. women are inferior in every religion, if you read the text literally.
Edited on Thu Apr-07-11 02:36 PM by La Lioness Priyanka
moreover your comments make no sense, since this particular dowry system existed prior to islam
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. Islam certainly has contributed to enforcing the patriachy of the existing culture.
To deny that is naive imho.

Furthermore I find it hard to believe that any man who is burning his wife over her dowry is worried about nuancing his religious texts. Reading a text literally probably defines such men.
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-08-11 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #31
44. And yet every religion treats women differently
no sane person can argue that Buddhism and Islam both treat women the exact same, for instance.
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #28
37. And for what it's worth, I'm not the author of the OP. That reference to the Quran
Edited on Thu Apr-07-11 02:51 PM by riderinthestorm
was the OP's own commentary, not mine which center on different issues.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. I guess people just like blaming religion for things.
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. they should atleast pick the right religion to blame
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. All patriarchal religions share culpability. Since Bangladesh is primarily
Islamic, its getting it's fair share today per the article in the OP.
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. this country is mostly christian, but you can hardly blame christianity
for problems that dont arise from Christianity. that's insane logic.
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. Oh but I can and do blame christianity for enforcing cultural stereotypes
that empower men in our society. It's insane to believe that christianity (or any of the patriarchal religions) play no part in women's status in the US.

To what other greater force do you attribute our patriarchal culture if not religion?
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #33
40. Insane logic?
Only if you have no idea who the Christians are and what they've done over the last few thousand years...


Nothing I love more than watching 2 religions fight over which one is "right"...



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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. Why do you assume that religion dictates what is essentially an economic practice?
The reason for dowries seems fairly clear. The groom is expected to assume financial responsibility for the wife and their subsequent offspring. In order to make it possible for him to meet the obligation, the parents of the bride provide him with money to strengthen his financial position. That isn't a religious issue, it's a way of dealing with money.
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. Why is the assumption always that the man has to be the provider?
That's inherently patriarchal on the face of it. That this is cultural patriarchy doesn't minimize the reinforcement of religions on that relationship.

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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
42. More religious bullshit.
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