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Harry Reid just said the issue is not over numbers at this point, but ideology.

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Tatiana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:10 AM
Original message
Harry Reid just said the issue is not over numbers at this point, but ideology.
He says that Speaker Boehner and the Republican leadership have drawn "a line in the sand" on ideological grounds (e.g. cutting funding for the EPA, Planned Parenthood, NPR, etc.).

Reid says he is less confident of reaching a solution now than he was 11 hours ago.

So how should the Democrats (and the administration) respond to this new Republican hostage-taking situation?
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samrock Donating Member (501 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
1. If the republicans are determined to
hang themselves.. just give them as much rope as they need..
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ejpoeta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
2. call it what it is. the republicans WANT a shut down. they aren't interested
in getting anything done. they are willing to hurt the american people, the military, federal workers for political points.
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FreakinDJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #2
17. Call it what it is - RATpuibliCONs determined to drive the Double Dip
in the Great Recession

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postulater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
3. It always was about ideology.
They just camouflage their intent.
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pinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #3
11. Agree.
:hi:
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #3
12. Not much of a camouflage
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Edweird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #3
20. My response as well.
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Ineeda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
4. Stand their ground--
the 'ground' that keeps us all from sinking into the rethug quicksand.
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Tatiana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. I agree. But what if the administration proposed further "compromise?"
Reid says they (the Dems) cannot move any further. But what if the President directs the Dems to accept further cuts in order to keep the government operational?

What is our "line in the sand?"
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. Reid says it's not the amount of money
They are using the bill to try to end things that were long ago fought for and won.

Defunding PP would COST money as they are a low cost provider for many woman's health services. It is not about money. (Only 3% of all PP costs are for abortion - and the government does NOT fund that - but they want PP defunded and out of existence.

As to the EPA, they are paying the Koch brothers back for all their money - and remember it was the Koch brothers who funded the effort to call climate change into question.
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. I don't think that is going to happen.
From what I understand, the disagreement is over where the cuts should be made. All of the Republican stuff is basically radical teabagger. Dems are willing to cut (Defense for example). but the Teabagger are stomping their feet.
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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #8
16. Our Line in the sand was expressed long ago by the Administration
"Everything is Negotiable"
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Wounded Bear Donating Member (665 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
5. He's right.....
You can't really fix the deficit/debt without addressing the revenue side, which means higher taxes on high income earners and return to full employment, with concomitant pay equity efforts. Corporate Amerika stands in opposition to those strategies.
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salinen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. It is now against the law
for the rich to pay taxes.
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NYC Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
6. As much as I don't want to jeopardize people's livelihoods over
ideology/politics...if the Repugs are determined, then call their bluff.
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AC_Mem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
9. The President needs to use his bully pulpit
And tell America EXACTLY what is going on.

Tell us about the numbers, and state exactly what Boner is willing to let the government shut down for.

De-funding NPR?
Taking away a woman's choice?

Lay it out there Mr. President and let everyone see exactly why they are willing to shut the government down.

We did it during lame duck, the repugnant repugs were shamed into doing what was right. Perhaps the President needs to tell them that there is no going home until the deal is done again, that seemed to work wonders around Christmas time....

It is time to stop this NONSENSE that the GOP is pulling and show America exactly who is in charge. It is now or never President Obama!

I'm rooting for our President and for Rep Reid - LET'S GO!!!

Shine On,
Annette
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #9
15. Pretty sure that will happen.
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #9
19. Yup, this needs the sanitizing light of day
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florida08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
10. K&R
Edited on Thu Apr-07-11 09:22 AM by florida08
Mike Pence said "shut it down" and Reid says it looks like we're headed that way

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/04/reid-looks-l...
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mwooldri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #10
23. Like that linked article and the comments: "Tea Party Shutdown".
If government shutdown goes ahead that is the meme that should be proclaimed - even from Pres O himself. It's a Tea Party shutdown of the government.

Mark.
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florida08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. gosh..totally missed that
and thanks for pointing it out. Yes indeed :thumbsup:
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Myrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
18. Shut 'er down!!
Then be on every tv and radio and webcast out there to let the voting public know who was behind it, and why.

Make the GOP own something (other than our bank accounts) for once!!!
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Johonny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #18
24. but will the TV show you?
Republicans get air time, Dems if their lucky get a chance at a he said, she said talking head argument. 0 Teabaggers show up at a rally gets airtime, 100,000 liberals marching does not. Dems need to get their message out yes. But they can't simply rely on the TV to do it. They need more than ever their president to take air time, to get their asses into their districts, to build that grass roots thing Obama built in 2008. Hell to get their wealthy members to buy newspapers, websites, radio stations and TV stations.

I'm all happy the leader of the Senate told everyone the obvious. But sans Rachel Maddow no one is going to carry this argument. The Dems need to get way more aggressive and way more active. As Wisconsin shows, the people are certainly waiting for active leadership. They are pissed!
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
21. Republicqns have reason to believe that when people start hurting Democrats cave
Tax cuts for the rich got extended after unemployments benefits were held hostage to them. If Democrats flinch at the site of blood Republicans will always advance with swords drawn. The nation will feel real pain as a result of a government shutdown but we can't pay the price Republicans are demanding in order to avoid it. The blood will be on thier hands and the public will see them for what they are.
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Tatiana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. Excellent points!
Especially:

"If Democrats flinch at the site of blood Republicans will always advance with swords drawn."

We've got to stop flinching, call their bluff, and make them own their actions.

Nice to see you around, BTW!
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
26. Don't negotiate with terrorists, Harry!
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
27. K & R
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Life Long Liberal Donating Member (120 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
28. We need to not give in on this one. n/t
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
29. Let them shut things down.
Democrats can't win playing their game. If they don't know it by now, they never will.
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MrCoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
30. I was just notified that I'm an "excepted" federal employee
That means that if there's a shutdown, I must come to work without pay or be considered AWOL.

This news depresses the hell out of me.
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Proud Liberal Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-07-11 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
31. Obama should demand a "clean" budget bill
and if the Repukes don't comply, then make sure the public knows and understand what they were asked to accept in order to avoid a shutdown. I don't think defunding planned parenthood (or actually any clinic that offers abortion services as part of its services) is going to fly.
I can't imagine Obama or, really, any Democrat caving on these kind of radical policies. Stupak was a bitter pill to swallow with health care reform but defunding organizations like Planned Parenthood unless they completely eschew abortion services is completely beyond the pale. Would President Obama actually fold on defunding his own health care law? Really? The only "rider" that I can see them possibly accepting is the EPA and *maybe* NPR but everything else, really? :shrug:
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