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Anyone have any reason to believe voting machine shenanigans in Wisconsin?

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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:28 PM
Original message
Anyone have any reason to believe voting machine shenanigans in Wisconsin?
I just get a little nervous when the votes start getting counted...I can't believe people have been marching and protesting by the thousands and come out in record numbers to vote to simply vote for the same old shit....
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
1. That's why if a Repub beats Obama in 2012.......
Edited on Tue Apr-05-11 11:30 PM by FrenchieCat
with all of the encouraging that has gone on here not to vote,
or not to work or donate.....

just know that after a certain time of day in November,
after it is announced, there won't be any turning back,
or immediate do-overs.

Remember, the GOP has the media on its side....always...
like now, and like in the future for eternity.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 07:24 AM
Response to Reply #1
29. You have to have a relatively close election or the entire system would be called into question
stealing an obvious landslide would make us dump the machines. They wouldn't want that.
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FeelingBlue Donating Member (146 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
2. I was just wondering the same thing
especially since it looks like there will have to be a recount. So, where are the ballots? How will they be stored? Who will preserve them? Black Box Voting, where are you when we need you????
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Yellow Horse Donating Member (462 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #2
17. Probably out raising money and acting like hot dogs... they're good at that.

Is there a LOCAL or STATE election integrity group in WI? If so, they are the ones who probably know more about this than anyone, and they probably need money bad. And they probably don't need Bev Harris rolling in to the state put on her brand of theatrics.

It's the local and state groups everywhere that need our support. They are out there, on the ground, doing the real work for better voting systems.



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Casandia Donating Member (181 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
3. I saw Kloppenburg just lose 10,000 votes from Dane county
Edited on Tue Apr-05-11 11:33 PM by Casandia
I have 2 webscreens up, and one I keep updating one screen and comparing it with the older screen, ....and suddenly, Kloppenburg had 10,000 votes less. No change in Prossers numbers!!
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FeelingBlue Donating Member (146 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Evidence of misdeeds?
It does sound questionable. I can't even deal with that whole thing. It is hard enough that this race is such a nail biter. If Prosser wins it will be for TEN YEARS. Why is it so close? I can't imagine.
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BadgerKid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. Dane just went from 207/248 to 243/248 w/no change in votes!
Edited on Tue Apr-05-11 11:40 PM by BadgerKid
12:28AM ET

Dane 207/248 45,503 124,880
27% 73%

12:30AM ET

Dane 243/248 45,503 124,880
27% 73%
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Casandia Donating Member (181 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. I saw that too!!! Something stinks
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. The precinct tally was messed up to, it went up but the votes did not.
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. I saw that.
I also find it weird that Dane has more votes than Milwaukee County for Kloppenburg.
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AmBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #10
21. Did you that saw it take screenshots???? n/t
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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #10
38. It's great that you saved these notes
having the times & numbers documented may come in handy.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. Did you capture that?
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AlabamaLibrul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #3
24. PLEASE take screenshots.
Please.

Full size, don't touch it in Photoshop, even to resize it or it will leave that little tidbit in there and it will be discredited forever.
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City Lights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 07:21 AM
Response to Reply #3
28. I saw 2,000 votes disappear from her total last night.
How does that happen?
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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 07:49 AM
Response to Reply #28
32. the Central Tabulator, I would assume...
padding, skimming, flipping votes
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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 07:48 AM
Response to Reply #3
31. If only someone would have known to capture the 2 images.
ho-lee crap. Just like Kerry vs bu$h in 2004. We DO have the before/after screen shots from that.
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:32 PM
Response to Original message
4. No.
Its a 50:50 state. Election nights are always hell.
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Snoutport Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
5. THere are a couple of counties that have him at 71-73% What's with that?
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janet118 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. This one bothers me . . . the votes stopped coming in a while ago
Waukesha 130/198 81,255 73% 29,332 27%
..........................Prosser........Kloppenbur


It's like they are holding votes back until everyone goes to sleep.
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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #15
33. I dont trust the Waukesha results
Like the "dixiecrat" counties of Florida - they make such a big case that Waukesha is SOLID RED. Then they can MAKE IT SO. Oh, it may be red alright - but 73% red? maybe 64% is the real number....
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glinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
6. I don't live there but I believe there will be fraud. Caused by the Republicans.
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
7. This isn't looking good.
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KaryninMiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
9. Lots of reasons. I'd say chances are there will be shenagans to put it mildly.
Not just concern henanigans but for genuine, VOTE STEALING. And as long as America is stupid enough to permit elections on machines that cannot be truly verified and where only the manufacturer's employees have access to the source codes (which is how one would know if the machines were rigged), and as long as we buy our machines from vendors who are ALL GOP loyalists (Diebold, ES&S, etc). then yes. We can assume that there will be shenanigans- in the form of approximately 1 1/2 percent skimming off of many precincts. Not enough to have it be blatantly obvious but enough to tip a close election over to the right. This is why we always need a landslide turnout - to compensate for this probability. Concern doesn't even begin to describe how disturbing this is and has been since they introduced those machines in the early 90s.
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liberal life Donating Member (187 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. If they can, they will
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mb7588a Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 12:16 AM
Response to Original message
18. Paper ballots across the state. Not likely.
Though in all my years watching WI election results, these are some wacky numbers.
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City Lights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 07:25 AM
Response to Reply #18
30. How are the paper ballots counted?
If the paper ballots are scanned, fraud could occur during tabulation.
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jeff47 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #30
37. Which would be caught by the manual audit of random precincts. (nt)
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City Lights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #37
43. According to link below, that only occurs in a General Election.
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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #18
34. paper ballots counted by Diebold/ES&S on their computers
then the paper ballots are stored in boxes and never again see the light of day unless criteria for hand recount is met... (this is my understanding anyway)
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 12:24 AM
Response to Original message
19. History?
We gave Dems a majority to sit on their hands regarding clean elections?????????????????
Oh well, at least we have a strong President who wont stand for that crap one damn second! :eyes:
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Ellipsis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 12:35 AM
Response to Original message
20. Anything is possible though I think it unlikely.
If they were going to rig the vote they would have made more then a 1/2 percent margin in the vote and I don't think that's going to happen. SO we can a recount that the state would have to pay for if no one concedes.

Also, unlike Ohio when they had the punch card system in 2004, there were central tabulators that you could take control of and could more easily distribute the vote across multiple precincts.

Most of the state uses OP scans, so there is a physical ballot that can be hand counted with relative ease.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 01:05 AM
Response to Original message
22. These GOP voting computers came in during the late 1960's... I'd question every
election back to Nixon/Humphrey --

Was there ever a "Southern Strategy" or just GOP controlled computers?

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snot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 01:24 AM
Response to Original message
23. Verified Voting does great work on this issue--worth supporting, as well as looking to for info...
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 01:29 AM
Response to Original message
25. There's always vote fraud when WE lose.
When we win, the machines are working fine, and the election officials are all above board.

But when the pukes win, there had to have been fraud, shenanigans, and corruption. There's no other explanation.
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 07:18 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. Historically speaking
THEY cheat. THEY manipulate. THEY lie. THEY steal.

It is a question that bears asking because of who THEY are and what THEY do.

THEY have stolen our country through fraudulent use of unverified voting. Voting machines that THEY program.

For the most part, although I won't say that ALL of us, because all of US include some of THEM--unfortunately--but we don't manipulate the election results.
EVERY single voting machine SNAFU favored THEM.
THEIR donors own the machines.

So, yeah, is really is a valid question because of their past bad acts.

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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #25
36. not fair. RW companies - ES&S/Diebold tabulate the votes
there are other types of election fraud but I can't see how or why the central tabulators would ever favor a Dem.
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #36
44. Exactly. That's what I'm saying. When THEY win, they're cheating.
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Godhumor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #25
42. Oh no, even when we win it is only because they couldn't steal enough votes n/t
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #42
45. Why would they be limited in how many votes they steal? n/t
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #45
48. It has to look like it is at least possible. nt
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 01:31 AM
Response to Original message
26. Of course. Electronic voting machines are inherently manipulable. nt
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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 07:55 AM
Response to Original message
35. Other than the fact that the opposition has already broken the law?
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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #35
40. Repeatedly and Often -nt
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LucasD Donating Member (54 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 08:07 AM
Response to Original message
39. Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.....
.... make that the state of Wisconsin.

They must think we are blind.
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reformist2 Donating Member (998 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 08:08 AM
Response to Original message
41.  I don't believe all these 50%/50% results. We need to go back to paper ballots.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
46. CHART: Anomalous vote shift in Milwaukee County
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-06-11 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
47. It's inevitable that the losing side an any given race is going to accuse the winner of cheating
Edited on Wed Apr-06-11 09:26 AM by slackmaster
Unfortunate but true. Especially when the result is close, there will always be some people who refuse to accept that they lost, even when there is no actual evidence of fraud. To some, the fact of losing a count is in itself evidence that someone cheated.

It's human nature not to be able to get our heads around the fact that not everyone agrees with us all the time.
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