Rachel talked about something last nite that really needs to be answered. Why is it that the

[jillan]

Repug base runs the republican party? They go out of their way to cater to their base - even the insane teaparty part of their base.
It seems like whatever their base demands, they fight for it & try to deliver.

BUT the Democrats throw their base under the bus (not her exact words)???
Gitmo, single payer, get us off of foreign oil, Unions, infrastructure... and more.

What the hell is going on?

[EFerrari]

1. The Republican party has convinced their base

that corporate interests are their interests.

The Democratic party hasn't had that kind of success.

[2banon]

22. No. But he's working on it..

Fuck the Loser Working Class! Who needs THOSE LOSERS? If only he can manage to convince the new generation of students (not the 2008 crowd - they've already been used up)and the new generation of "Youth Voters" (what does that even mean?)and that the Corporate Masters were our best friends and had the voters best interests at stake, he will do well.

But first we have to get rid of the notion that the working class are people, and potential voting citizens. We have to adapt to the notion that we are Consumers first (as opposed to Citizens first) and that as Consumers, we need to support the agenda of Big Business so that they can provide the products that we Consumers will want to buy on credit and foodstamps!! Then everything will be all better!

on edit: the point being, that as soon as all of us loser working class folks get with the program, then the entire Democratic Party will finally be on one page, and will soon or at least eventually out do the Republicans on the Corporate Business Party identity, then everything will be just rosie.

[Lorien]

53. Yep. nt

[Scuba]

87. Yeah, I would agree that the Democratic....

...Party has been trying to convince the base that corporate interests are their interests. But it ain't gonna work.

[Tx4obama]

2. President Obama signed an executive order to close Gitmo

it was Congress that couldn't get enough votes to stop the defunding of the transfer of the detainees.
BLAME THE GOP!

[MadMaddie]

30. Facts don't matter to some!

The fact that nothing is moving through Congress is critical. No one remembers all of the Repug "No". 300 bills sat at the Senate Door that Pelosi got passed in the House but people choose to overlook those facts....

[SusanaMontana41]

83. Of course we remember, and we're not about to vote for the GOP. n/t

[timtom]

37. Thank you for this clarification.

As it turns out, I missed that piece of intelligence.

You have given me cause to rethink Obama. Thanks.

[Exilednight]

39. At face value, your statement has merit. But what tools did Obama use to

push Congress to push a bill through to close gitmo?

Signing a piece of paper and saying "I tried", is not much of an effort.

[Lorien]

54. He only pushes for the things that matter to him

like a mandate without a public option and massive tax break for the rich in exchange for three months of benefits for the unemployed whose jobs the rich sent overseas.

[mistertrickster]

58. Link? On edit--never mind, I found it--you are right.

http://articles.cnn.com/2009-01-22/politics/guantanamo.order_1_detention-guantanamo-bay-torture?_s=PM:POLITICS


January 22, 2009

Promising to return America to the "moral high ground" in the war on terrorism, President Obama issued three executive orders Thursday to demonstrate a clean break from the Bush administration, including one requiring that the Guantanamo Bay detention facility be closed within a year.

During a signing ceremony at the White House, Obama reaffirmed his inauguration pledge that the United States does not have "to continue with a false choice between our safety and our ideals."

The president said he was issuing the order to close the facility in order to "restore the standards of due process and the core constitutional values that have made this country great even in the midst of war, even in dealing with terrorism."

[rainy]

70. The republicans scared everyone. They kept

screaming "not in our backyard" and made everyone afraid. We all know how well fear works with the GOP. So the dems ran from voting yes to close getmo.

[Exilednight]

95. Of course they ran, Obama wants to be seen as a lover, not a fighter. n/t

[LooseWilly]

101. If Congress had defunded the transfer while I was President, I'd've pulled out a credit-fucking-card

A story posted Sep. 24, 2010 (http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/2010/09/24/who-are-the-remaining-prisoners-in-guantanamo-part-four-captured-crossing-from-afghanistan-into-pakistan-2-of-2/) says there were 174 Gitmo detainees at that time.

According to a travel site (http://www.tripbase.com/Flights_from-New_York-to-Cuba-JFK-to-MBJ-g-G3DG8g.html):"Monday is the cheapest day of the week for flights from New York to Cuba at $328 (average historical price)." ... and that's retail price average.

Multiply the $328 by 174 and.... $57,072... batta-boom, batta-bing—and with the bank bailouts to hold over their heads, Obama should've been able to get a pretty favorable rate off the banks on his credit card bill...

If I'm Obama—I make the offer publicly to pay the cost which Congress won't pay... and I ask for US Marshals to donate the hours to guard the fuckers... maybe suggest a friggin' bbq & a keg at the White House for any takers... 174 US Marshals to make the trip... 348 if 2 are required for transport duty... I don't think there'd be a problem finding the volunteers.

Sorry—I'm blaming Obama for not having the fortitude to get creative to get done what he supposedly wanted to get done.

Are we all going to pretend that we don't know what a president can accomplish if he (and maybe eventually she) really gives a shit? We have the examples of W, but here's another example: Andrew Jackson who is the reason that the Democrats are associated with the donkey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_War).

As a sample:

In 1833, Jackson moved to finish off the bank. Jackson ordered all federal deposits in the bank withdrawn. To do this, Jackson was forced to remove two secretaries of the treasury who refused to carry out Jackson's orders, eventually replacing Louis McLane and William J. Duane with the more agreeable Roger B. Taney.<12> Despite the Senate's refusal to confirm Taney's appointment, during his nine months as acting Secretary, he carried out Jackson's orders.

Jackson was threatened with impeachment... but he got away with every shenanigan he engaged in (including the Trail of Tears... demonstrating that a president can ignore the Supreme Court if he really wants to). W wasn't even seriously threatened with impeachment, despite accusations of war crimes. But, Obama can't even "get crazy" enough to threaten to use his credit card?

Sorry... an evaluation of what happened and I have to reluctantly congratulate the GOP for pulling their shit out when it looked impossible... and I have to blame Obama for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

[RagAss]

3. Fascism...where ya been?

[tabatha]

4. A large part of the Republican base want politicians

"to keep their hands of my Social Security and Medicare".

How are they catering to their base?

I disagree completely.

The Republicans brain-wash their base with their loud noise machine and lies to get their base to follow along like sheep.

[jillan]

5. Look what's going on in the budget debate. Boner comes to a compromise with Biden last week and the

teabaggers say it's not enough, cut more. Hours later Boner says there is no deal.

[roxiejules]

45. I think part of it is "theatre"

...putting on a play for the public.

[Monique1]

7. I keep asking the same thing

[Township75]

6. The repub base has walked on them before, unlike the Dem base

Repubs said F-U to GHWB, and even Dole. They also walked out on their repubs in 2006. By walk out, I mean not vote, not voted for Dems.

The Dem base doesn't do that. Regardless of what our leaders do, we will be their to vote for them...because think how bad it would be if the R's were in power. That is the line I think.

So why would they need to respond to their base?

[Cronus Protagonist]

8. Both sides like it that way

They need the votes and their base is known to stay home on election day; if they don't get riled up about something emotional. Our guy doesn't need to pander for votes because we'll vote for him/her anyway so these emotional blockheads won't ruin the world. The set up is such that both sides need the opposing side to motivate our voters into the polls. Our side votes out of fear that the buggers will fuck it all up, the buggers vote out of fear that the liberals will fuck it up.

Both sides like it that way.

[Vincardog]

9. The Tea Baggers ask for what their owners (the Koch bros) tell them to ask for

[Fuzz]

10. Not fair. The Democrats play to the Republican base too.

[BklynThirtyThree]

11. Ha!

"Not fair. The Democrats play to the Republican base too." <-- exactly. Different mascots, same owners.

[Lorien]

55. Sadly true. nt

[nashville_brook]

81. zingggg.

[Davis_X_Machina]

12. The Republican base does not run the Republican party...

...or you wouldn't have obvious compromise candidates like McCain, or Dole, or Bush pérè, et fils, reaching the top of the ticket. You'd see Pat Robertsons, and Pat Buchanans, and Mike Huckabees.

The party didn't 'give' the teabaggers Angle (Lowden was the Party favorite) in Nevada, or O'Donnell in Delaware (Castle was the Party favorite), or Paul (Grayson was the Party favorite) in Kentucky. Those nominations were taken in the teeth of Party opposition. by the teabaggers.

If left-liberal Democrats were equally noisy, they'd get an equally large number of simpatico candidates -- and lose an equally large number of flippable seats in the quest for perfection.

[RZM]

78. I think that's true

The immigration issue is a good example. Their base wants a get-tough policy, while the cheap labor business interests don't - and they are where the $$ is at. Some Republicans have cast their lot with the former, but the party establishment obviously prefers the latter.

[Cal33]

84. The Democratic base does not run the Democratic Party either, correct?

But then, Democrats tend to go their own way, which is okay much of the time,
but not so okay during times of crises.

Truman, and especially FDR, were far better able to bring cohesion to the Dems.

[NorthCarolina]

13. Because the Corporatist New Dems truly believe that the base has nowhere else to go.

It's as simple as that.

[Donnachaidh]

18. and they think their base is only useful for photo-ops

and ads telling us how they work for us!

[ReggieVeggie]

21. and the base doesn't rock the apple cart

by doing something like, oh, I don't know, not vote for them

[Curmudgeoness]

14. I believe that the Republican base is not running that party.

I think that they are being told by their leaders what to think and believe.

Democrats are more like cats, you just can't herd us.

[OHdem10]

15. Way back when Daddy Bush was running for a second term,

the Republican Base did NOT BELIEVE he had been true
enough and had pushed their social agenda enough.
Guess what. They are a well-organized base so they
decided to show the party ---they stayed home and
Daddy Bush lost his second term. Also they are very
assertive, agressive and do not hesitate to tell their
Congress Critters where to go or do as they say.

EVEN MORE, for whatever reason, the Media and GOP
always want the Democratic President to "Sista Solja"
the Liberals. That is do things to make it clear
the Democratic President is not bound by his base.
Driving division is the art of the Republican Party.
Since our Party is divided--Liberals and Conservatives
and the Conservatives run the show, our Party obliges
the Republican Party. trying to prove our President
is not and hever has been a liberal.

Just another way to say Liberals do not matter.

[Raine]

16. The bases of both parties are continually played

they just have different ways of doing it. The repukes lead theirs on and make them think they will give them what they want, the dems publically humiliate their base. In the end neither base gets what they want. x(

[OHdem10]

23. The Conservative Base has gotten enough . and will get more

[A Simple Game]

94. The bases of both parties are being played.

I will be surprised if the Republicans ever outlaw abortion and if the Democrats ever give us a good health care plan. If they give us what we want, they fear we will not go to the polls and they will be out of a job. Trying to repeal Obama care is just for show, the Republicans have no need to repeal something that benefits the insurance companies and does very little to help us.

[Raine]

97. Yes, EXACTLY

they dangle those things in front of their bases like dangling a carrot in front of a mule. Neither side will ever give their base the thing they want most. If they did then they wouldn't have it to game us with anymore.

[Johonny]

17. their base doesn't run their party

a small hand full of rich and greedy run their party. Hence all those teabaggers with signs saying keep your hands off my Medicare are having Republican party try to take their Medicare. All those union police and firefighters are seeing the Republican party attack their unions power. All those small government voters saw the government grow like crazy under Reagan and Bush. All those deficit hawk voters saw the debt grow out of control without any society beneficial reason under Reagan and Bush. They sell themselves as the party of personal integrity and moral values only to time and time again produce ample criminal prosecution and moral lapse of judgment. They bill themselves as keeping Government out of your private lives than ram through the patriotic act, personal drug testing for jobs and ample odd sexual based legislation.

I mean basically the Republicans have an incredible ability to poop and sell the poop to their base as a brick of gold. For some reason this is less affective with Democrats.

[Enthusiast]

31. We aren't as gullible,

that's for sure. But we are gullible enough, apparently.

[ecstatic]

19. Define base? Certainly not those who are promising not to vote next year nt

[Exilednight]

41. The base is where each parties ideology stems from. The more you move away from the base

the more your views are watered down.

[Lorien]

56. No one is planning not to vote. And the base is certainly not those who were

against Bush's agenda three years ago, but are now FOR the parts of Bush's agenda that Obama has adopted as his own. Those are fanboys, not Democrats.

[DeSwiss]

20. One group generally has more knowledge than the other.....

...at least the kind of knowledge society covets more. And they're usually prepared to use it, to revise it when new information renders what they know to be outdated, and then to employ that knowledge in a rational and just way that serves their own ends and that of the greater good. Usually.

And the other ones don't. Consequently they may fear any kind of change because many barely understand what's going on as it is (which partly explains their distaste of "socialism" but they just loves them some Medicare and Social Security.) There can be a degree of emotional comfort and stability gained by those not willing to ever change or challenge themselves. And by not challenging themselves and their beliefs they hope never to expose the reality of their daily lives except to each other, which doesn't matter. Usually.

- And it's simpler. All you have to know -- is how to say NO.....

K&R

on edit: Oh, and I almost forgot -- they rarely vote. But Republicans are so deficient in so many ways that they're never comfortable and really can't be. So they scare the BeJebus outta the Repukes when they start carrying (mostly misspelled) signs about elections. I mean, if they lose the Tea Baggers where can they go but out? Because after them, there's not much bottom left.

American liberals have been wailing and moaning like a bunch of dying cats in a hailstorm. HOW COULD THEY BE THAT STUPID? Well dammit, we've always been that stupid. So get over it. But from time to time at least we were lucky enough to have real leadership, people like Franklin Roosevelt who understood that politics is and always will be about class struggle. Rich as he was, he had enough character to stand up for social and economic justice. Hell, even Nixon wanted universal health care. It took a truly godless pack of jackals from Texas to finally bring down and savage the Roosevelt legacy.

The problem with the postmodern middle class and left is that they've forgotten about the class issue. Especially now that they are educated middle class citizens, urban dwellers, Jews and Germans and Italians and Irishmen, Asians and Poles, all far better off than their ancestors. They've come far from their Ellis Island roots and are now what is known as the "two shithouse Irish," in redneck parlance.

Besides that, it's not easy for educated people with orderly lives to be on the side of overweight, undereducated, deeply indebted, and bitterly frustrated and prejudiced people, folks who have finally given up after being kicked in the ass one too many times. The system is so rigged against them that even those who strive seldom get out, which is in itself a lesson to others. These people, the people of debt counselors, joint custody, repoed vehicles and mobile homes, have been lied to, cheated, and robbed, mocked on television, and now once again spat upon by their supposed betters, this time the angry liberals. Show me the party that represents them. Who could they have voted for that would have improved their situations? Let's face it, under the Democrats they would be getting screwed somewhat less (maybe), but they would not be getting ahead. In real wages they have lost ground under Dems as well as the GOP since 1973.

~Joe Bageant, http://www.joebageant.com/joe/2005/04/lets_drink_to_t.html">Let's Drink To The Slobbering Classes

[C_U_L8R]

24. I suspect

we are not the base.

It's somewhere a bit over thataway - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >

[BzaDem]

25. The reason is that the Republican base is MUCH bigger than the Democratic base. The democratic base

(as you would define it) is actually quite tiny. When a Democrat wins, it does so with more moderates than liberals.

On the other hand, when a Republican wins, most of its voting share comes from conservatives. They only need a small fraction of moderates to top off their vote at 50%.

So Republicans can play to their base because they don't need to moderate to win generally. Democrats, on the other hand, need huge numbers of moderates to win, so they need to play for those moderates. A strategy of pleasing the base and losing the moderates would mathematically result in a loss each and every time, so it is quite an irrelevant strategy.

[Bluenorthwest]

49. So how does that fit with the fact that there are more registered

and self identified Democrats than Republicans? Seems the numbers are not on your side, so you need to play terms of art games and define things for others. As you would define it. Funny that one Party can e larger, yet the other has a MUCH bigger base. Amazing. I wonder if it works out differently with a definition of the base that is not your own? Of course it does.
When anyone uses words where numbers should go (bigger, huge, much more) there is a reason for it, and that reason is usually that the numbers do not look good while making the argument. That is to say, they make no statement of fact, just a strongly worded opinion.
The very nature of how Reagan and other Republicans have won the oval belies the idea that they do not need moderates. Remember when 'moderates' were called Reagan Democrats? I sure as hell do. Many of us do.

[BzaDem]

102. Did you read my post?

I said the Democratic party has a much higher PROPORTION of moderates, and a much lesser PROPORTION of non-moderates.

That says NOTHING about absolute size of the Democratic party or the Republican party -- it just says something about the MAKEUP of the Democratic party and the MAKEUP of the Republican party.

"The very nature of how Reagan and other Republicans have won the oval belies the idea that they do not need moderates"

Reagan won 44 and then 49 states, and HW won 40 states. To the extent they had moderates, they allowed them to "top off" their margins to win in a landslide. Of course any party needs moderates to win in a LANDSLIDE. I'm not talking about what's required to win in a landslide -- I'm talking about what's required to win period (i.e. 50%+1).

A much better example would be Bush's popular vote loss in 2000 and bare popular vote win in 2004, which was mostly created by the conservative base.

[nemo137]

26. Their base is less fractured.

I mean, the Jesus-side want to have white, male, Christian, straight, cis privilege confirmed as their #1 goal, and the money-side is fine with that (since, well, guess who has all the damn money and power in this country).

For us, well, our base is people who aren't crazy or shitty enough to be Pukes, the labor movement, people who don't fall under the Republican privilege-umbrella, and leftists confronted with the fact that a first past the post, single member district electoral system means they have two choices.

The Pukes don't have to decide which base to respond to. There's no right-wing equivalent of hippie-punching because there's no part of their base suspicious of the other. It makes their task easier.

[Motown_Johnny]

27. Because the (R) base always turns out for them while the (D) base doesn't

Think about it. The (R)s will vote for someone like Vitter who got caught up in the D.C. Madame scandal but the (D) base will split off and vote for Nader instead of sticking with Gore.


The (R)s can always stir up more votes with things like same sex marriage or abortion proposals on a ballot (or more recently the tea party movement).

The (D)s will not turn out if the proposal isn't liberal enough for their taste (and they never are). Look at what we go through here with things like Health Care Reform. There are always some of us that will tear down any legislation because it doesn't go far enough. The same holds true with President Obama. Look at how many liberals want to try to primary him (and greatly lesson our chance of holding onto the White House) because for them he is not liberal enough. An 80% job approval rating from other (D)s means nothing to them. They allow the perfect to be the enemy of the good.

The (R)s always turn out and always vote the way the conservatives want them to. This creates a path to victory by playing to their base. The (D)s don't have that path to victory. They always need to play to the swing voter who does show up instead of playing to the liberal who doesn't. If we turned out in sufficient numbers to make politicians want to play to us to help their chances of winning then they would. They don't because they just can't win that way (unless they are in a very liberal district, this is the exception not the rule).



What is going on? We do this to ourselves, and because we do things constantly move a little more to the right with every cycle.


It has been said that in a democracy we get the government we deserve. The problem with that statement is that it is true.

[JoePhilly]

35. +1000

I describe it this way ...

The right wing base will cheer even the smallest victory. And deficiencies in the legislation are ignored, or used to simply set the next target. "Ok, we got A, now let's go get B".

The left wing won't cheer small victories. No matter what happens, the focus is not on the gain, but on the lose (real or perceived). The left's approach ... "We're only going to get A? No way, either you go get me A and B, or I'm not voting".

Rather than use the thing we didn't get as "the next goal", it becomes "an anchor" tied to the feet of our representatives. Rather than moving us forward, it pulls us backwards.

[zalinda]

60. The liberals or left wing would cheer small victories if

they were going in the correct direction, but it always seems to go to the right. Absolutely no left winger is as hopeless as you make them out to be, after all they voted for Obama the first time.

zalinda

[JoePhilly]

61. And they are claiming that they won't vote for him this time.

Take any issue at all.

No matter what Obama accomplished, its not enough.

He said he draw down Iraq troops from over 150k to about 50k by last summer. He did that. Not good enough, he has to get them all out yesterday.

Heath care ... pre-exisiting conditions, who cares. We didn't get single payer.

Extending unemployment ... nope, not good enough because he wasn't able to get rid og the Bush tax cuts for the rich att he same time.

DADT ... didn't do it fast enough (and secretly doesn't want to implement the repeal).

For everything good he does, too many on the left not only don't cheer, they say "yea but ... ".

[zalinda]

71. Okay, let's go one by one

Drawing down troupes in Iraq. He didn't end the war there, he just changed the name, our people are still getting killed, for a war based on lies. Dead people, whether ours or theirs is not acceptable. Besides the killing, there is also the giving of billions of our tax dollars to a corrupt Iraqi government.

Health care, pre-existing conditions only count if you can get someone to INSURE you, and you can AFFORD to PAY the INSURANCE COMPANY. Yea! A tiny percentage of people will get help, those that can afford it. We were told, he got the health 'care' package he WANTED, he could have gotten the public option (which we accepted instead of single payer), we were told the votes were there, of course, after Obama signed the bill. And, of course, the working poor will again get squeezed, in either a fine for not buying INSURANCE or the high co-pays that will definitely occur. And, to top it all off, EVERY insurance company has raised their premiums significantly, since that bill was signed.

Extending unemployment, the unemployed got 3 extra months, while the rich got billions of dollars. All that Obama had to do was NOTHING, and he could have had extra money for the government. Then he could have negotiated a better tax deal, as well as for unemployment benefits.

As far as DADT, he didn't do it fast enough, and it was a namby pamby nod to our brothers and sisters who have been put their lives on the line for this country. This should have been a no brainer.

Obama is not a leader, he is a arbitrator. The problem is that the right and business interests have more value to him than the lives of the majority of people, so everything comes down on the side of business and the right wing.

And, to top everything off, the left have repeatedly told that they are insignificant, by those crooks that he appointed in his administration. And, not one word from Obama to say he appreciated the left, we are only told (by him) to swallow our anger.

zalinda

[Recursion]

77. Read FR some time and see if you still think that

W gets the same attacks there that Obama gets here, just in reverse: caving, RINO, bait-and-switch Democrat in disguise. It would be funny if it weren't so sad.

[no limit]

57. I don't buy that

the base turned out for Clinton, how did that work out?

the base turned out for Obama, how did that work out?

If the Democrats actually catered to the base the base would turn out every time. But since they don't you shouldn't be surprised when the base doesn't. It's not that complicated to understand.

[mistertrickster]

59. When the D base has a reason to vote D, they will. Obama showed that in 2008.

Then he decided to become a Golden Retriever, beloved for his personality alone.

[liberation]

66. Oh gosh, and I thought blaming the victim was an exclusive Republican trait...

I was wrong, apparently.

[bvar22]

28. The answer is , "Because we let them."

Rachel answered your question with her closing sentence.

"Only the base itself will ever change that."



Who will STAND and FIGHT for THIS American Majority?
Lofty Rhetoric, Broken Promises, and Whiny Excuses mean NOTHING now.
"By their WORKS you will know them,"
and by their WORKS they will be judged.

[slipslidingaway]

29. "Only the base itself will ever change that."

so very true!

[Blaq Dem]

32. MONEY speaks volume.

Democrats cater to their corporate donors. They don't have enough faith in their voters. That's the problem. You'd think voter numbers would outweigh $$$$$.

[crikkett]

33. I just wish we stopped these stupid wars. They cost too much.

[athenasatanjesus]

34. The real question is "why don't people politically in the center notice this"

Centrist often brush off my political view points with "well democrats are just as bad as republicans,thus liberals aren't any smarter than conservatives".

[snot]

36. The Repub base is just a fig leaf for the oligarchs' otherwise naked looting.

[okieinpain]

38. because the repugs do not have to deliver anything.

passing anti-abortion laws are easy, real governing takes hard work. like it or not you are you're ignorant brothers keeper.

[Exilednight]

40. They managed to create a party within a party and

have a small handful of people hold their party accountable to what they feel are their primary concerns.

The only way to change this is to replicate left leaning version of the tea party and show that we are just as fed up with status-quo as they are, but that we expect different things from government.

[NorthCarolina]

42. Because the Dems want to foster the false impression that the majority of Dems are right of center.

nt

[randr]

43. The Republican people I know behave like lemmings

They are prone to agree with bullies and follow what ever dictate they hear at church. The radial fringe originated in the religious right and they have the ear the flock once a week. They are very good at creating a buzz phrase and repeating it over and over until it has become a mantra, whether it is true or not.
It is in the nature of the left not to be so regulated and predictable.

[TheKentuckian]

44. Because it is a scam that requires a lil touch.

The idea is to hold the left and win so the corporate agenda can be moved forward.

The Far Reich is on board for the corporate agenda as long as the downside can be blamed on blacks, hispanics, women, the poor, unions, and liberals.

Both parties serve roughly the same masters so Democrats have to get by on a much deeper con to win and hold their constituency but under no circumstances will they betray their actual base that writes big checks for their services.

[cui bono]

52. Exactly. And we better start fighting the same fight and stop being naive.

Just because there's a D after someone's name doesn't mean they're on our side.

[liberation]

67. BINGO

A lot of people miss the big picture indeed: for decades liberal proposals have had a snowball's chances in hell to get passed, where as conservative and neo-liberal policies get fast tracked no questions asked.

See the amount of debate and resistance and eventual watering down that the so-called "health care reform" had to endure, and when it finally passed it was basically useless and did almost nothing to modify structurally (in any significant manner) our health care system and how it delivers health care. And yet the bailout of wall street which involved orders of magnitude more money, for example, was passed in not just weeks but days even with little to no debate, resistance, or even oversight.

For proof look at how quickly Blue Dogs have to be attended to, and how much abuse and concessions the actual liberal Dem politicians left have to put up with.

[H2O Man]

46. #52 Recommendation.

I saw that last night, and hoped others would recognize the significance.

[Life Long Liberal]

47. I agree we cannot seem to uniteas dems.

[CrossChris]

48. B/c in a debate between the selfish and the self-critical, the deck is stacked

Every debate is skewed 75/25 from the start because of this dynamic.

[BR_Parkway]

50. No, they give the appearance that they fight for their base when in reality

they use sidetracking issues to get their base to support the GOP's real constituents, the wealthy.

If they really fought for what their base wants they would have passed a No Gay Marriage amendment during Bush's reign when they controlled everything. They also would have passed a law that life begins at conception or some other way to eliminate abortion.

But they didn't, they just use those big sticks to rally their base. And because they say all the "right" words, their base is happy to believe whatever other BS the GOP puts out there - in spite of any evidence to the contrary. Take Tax Cuts for example, the base repeats it over and over as one of the holy mantras that it will lead to jobs - in spite of an entire decade worth of job shedding and wealth concentrating to the top 5% during Bush's tax cutting.

[cui bono]

51. It's all part of the larger plan to move everyone to the right.

The game is not about D's v. R's, it's about the filthy rich v. the working people. The corporations own and run this country.

Until we fight the same fight they're fighting we will always lose. We have to stop thinking the Dem's are on the people's side. They've proven time and time again that they are not, especially Obama. We have to start backing only the Dems who actually work for us.

[femrap]

62. Corporations and very wealthy people

run this country....so the Dems cater to them. And the organized 'religions' must be catered to as well....the repugnants love abortion and homosexuals. These divide and conquer.

Obama doesn't care about progressives....in fact, we're a pain in his neck.

We're on our own....the federal gov't hates me.

[JDPriestly]

63. The Tea-Baggers made a lot of noise when they did not get their way.

The Tea-Baggers sponsored challenge candidates, and some of them won. That is how you demonstrate power.

I think that we progressives need to take back our party the way Tea-Baggers have taken theirs.

[The Backlash Cometh]

64. Pick me! Pick me!

It's because the Republican agenda has strong Libertarian interests and they will cater to the lowest common denominator. When it was the Christian Right, they tried to cut back on social programs via the anti-abortion movement. When it was the fiscal conservatives, they tried to cut back on more social programs. When it was the pro-business or Machiavelli Libertarian group, they tried to deregulate. When it was the Tea Party movement it is anything that causes taxes. They probably love this group the most because they're so blind stupid.

Anyway, they cater to their voters because the voters have a cause that can be used in the Republicans favor.

[librechik]

65. the base is all the Repugs have. We have the base, and minorities, and union members, and women and

students and other young folks and they just don't care about trying to appeal to all those diverse groups; they just count on them not being Cons. Their strategy is to pretend (?) they are more conservative than they are to A) avoid bad mouthing and B) pick up a few independents.

Yeah, it sucks as a strategy.

[BrklynLiberal]

68. David Frum : " The GOP is scared of their base. The Democrats loathe their base."

http://rootswire.org/content/gop-scared-their-base-democrats-loathe-theirs

As commentators as diverse as David Frum and Glenn Greenwald will tell you, Republicans are scared of their base, Democrats hate theirs.

It's true in DC, and it's true in Sacramento. Let's just take a few samples: Democrats are busy cutting into long-term progressive programs. Programs that work, and save us long-term money. For example, look at Cal-Works. In response to the seemingly endless calls for "welfare reform", we have proven that using best practices and sociological research, you can build a strong and beneficial program. It has helped rebuild many families, and heck, even the LA Times wants to see funding restored. Or look at Medi-Cal, or higher education funding. Time after time, Democrats are negotiating with themselves on how we devastate the state.

<snip>

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/taxonomy/term/1779,520,14867

Jansing read some of David Frum's remarks that the GOP fears their base and the Democrats hate theirs and asked him if he agreed with that statement

[jillan]

88. I hate it when I have to agree with David Frum!

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tblue37]

72. Money, money, money. Their "base" is actually a fake

face for their real base, the Kochs et al. of theis country

[cascadiance]

73. Bottom line is that Republican base doesn't care about corporate corruption. We do!

And when corporations run BOTH parties and have corporatists in both of them that control everything to their liking, then yes, we will be ignored when we try to push for legislation that works against corporate corruption and the Republican base just goes after gay rights and other crap that corporations don't care about one way or the other!

[tinwi]

74. Why doesn't some primary Obama?

I could see Bernie Sanders, Anthony Weiner, any number of Dems who would NOT throw the base under the bus

[Recursion]

76. Because his strongest support is among liberal Democrats

If there's a primary challenge, the numbers say it's going to come from a conservative Democrat, who only support him at 60% as opposed to liberal Democrats who support him at more than 80%.

[Recursion]

75. Freepers ask the same thing. All activists do

Freepers wonder why the Democratic party is so good at doing what the left wants and the GOP is so bad at doing what the right wants. Every activist always feels this way, because the actual range of motion when you're in government is depressingly small.

Examples: abortion is still legal. Social security is not privatized. The tax cuts are not permanent. W, Hastert, and Lott had 6 years to do something about those and failed (and W was excoriated by the right for "caving" and accepting tax cuts with a sunset rather than sticking to his guns).

[Horse with no Name]

79. Because their base is bat-shit crazy and will kill them if they don't?n/t

[fascisthunter]

80. #100... rec

[brewens]

82. Corporations have the Democratic politicians bought off. At least

enough of them. They don't have the base bought, yet. Corporations own the Republicans right from Boner down to some inbred half-wit teabagger that only thinks what it gits taught to think by Fox News.

[dorkulon]

85. They vote.

If we voted in the same percentages they do, they'd never win.

[ProudDad]

86. Both right-wings of the Corporate War Party

cater to their main base -- the Plutocracy...

The Dem version pretends to care about working people, the pub version doesn't even do that...

[TorchTheWitch]

89. because the GOP base wants what the GOP pols want

or at least the GOP base believe they want what the GOP pols want. The Dem pols DON'T want what the Dem base wants and that's because the Dem pols have not actually represented the Dem party for decades but have more represented the same exact interests as the GOP pols.

How is it that after DECADES of this shit that people still can't figure this out? The Dem party sold out after Reagan destroyed unions. The Dem party got a great deal of it's campaign funds from unions like the GOP got theirs from corporations and the elite. Once the Dems lost that union money pot they couldn't figure out how else to get that kind of money (or didn't want to be bothered) and instead of rebuilding unions and appealing to the average Joe for funding in more ingenious and creative ways they SOLD THE PARTY OUT and went after the corporate and elite money pot alongside the GOP. Hence the need for BOTH parties to cater to the corporate and elite in order to keep the money pot full.

I've often believed that the larger reason for the destruction of the unions was to destroy the Dem party. It worked, and it only worked because the Dems LET it.

[roman7]

90. mom was right in leaning left

my momma told me the republicans are for the rich and only for the rich the democrats are for the poor by helping the country to be rich. i choose the democrats thats my base.

[grahamhgreen]

91. Establishment Dems hate progressives and feel we are nothing more that suckers.

Perhaps...

[loudsue]

92. Simple. The democrats are playing to the republican base, too.

After all, you can't serve two masters.

[emulatorloo]

93. I think you are mischaracterizing what Rachel said about Democrats and the Base

Did you ever see Rachel's Obama and Democratic Congress accomplishments video? It is floating around here somewhere.

I saw last night's show too. I don't recall any discussion of Gitmo, for example.

However I have seen Rachel report on the gitmo issue, she has a grasp of the significant role that the Republicans had in fucking that up.

[Logical]

96. I agree this is one of our buggest issues.

[avaistheone1]

98. k&r

[deacon]

99. Because their base is stupid. To widen their base they've waged an assault on education for more

votes in the future.

[cali]

100. because the repub base gets their candidates elected