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Libyan Revolution Day 47 (Brega turnover for a 3rd time)

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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 07:08 PM
Original message
Libyan Revolution Day 47 (Brega turnover for a 3rd time)
Links to sites with updates: AJE Live Blog April 5 (today) AJE Twitter Dashboard The Guardian Reuters feb17.info Libya Alhurra (live video webcast from Benghazi) libyafeb17.com

Twitter links: Ayman Mohyeldin, with AJE Ben Wedeman, with CNN tripolitanian, a Libyan from Tripoli Brian Conley, reporter in Libya FreeLibyanYouth, Libyan advocate LibyaFeb17.com twitter account ChangeInLibya, Libyan advocate

Useful links: feb17voices Current time in Libya Prayer times in Libya

Day 46 here.

Marching On in Libya, for the revolutionaries!


Rebels took cover during fighting with troops loyal to Gaddafi outside of the oil town of Brega in Eastern Libya (April 4)

Photograph: Youssef Boudlal / Reuters


Libyans in Misrata describe terror inflicted by Gaddafi's snipers
There has been much to terrorise the people of Misrata over the past weeks of bloody siege. Tank shells and mortars have fallen at random in the heart of the rebel-held Libyan city, with little warning bar the final whistle of the explosive flying through the air. Muammar Gaddafi's planes have periodically bombed the revolutionary enclave in the west of the country.

But residents say there has been nothing like the snipers.

"We are afraid even to step into the street any time. You can just be shot. I've seen children shot. They come in here with arms and legs destroyed. The snipers know who they are shooting. It's terror," said a doctor reached at one of the town's hospitals who said he wanted to give his name only as Ali because he feared for the safety of his family elsewhere in Libya.

"Before you could go out when they weren't shelling and bombing. But now you never know. Some of the snipers are not even wearing uniforms."


Shelling in Misrata targets shelter, five dead
(Reuters) - At least five people were killed when forces loyal to Muammar Gaddafi shelled a residential area in the besieged city of Misrata late on Monday, a doctor said, warning the death toll was likely to keep rising.

"The reception in the hospital is full. Five people were confirmed killed in the last two hours and five more are in critical condition," the doctor, who gave his name as Ramadan, told Reuters by phone from the city.

A second medic said the latest artillery assault on Libya's third biggest city had left many wounded but medical teams were unable to reach them because of sporadic shelling.


One day this conflict will be called the Siege of Misrata. :(

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Sarajevo


Iman al-Obeidi 'released' from Libyan detention
Iman al-Obeidi, the woman bundled out of a hotel in Tripoli after claiming she had been repeatedly raped by government militia, has been released from detention, according to one report.

A week ago the 29-year-old lawyer burst into the Rixos hotel where most of the foreign media are staying, saying she had been held for two days by forces loyal to Muammar Gaddafi and was raped by 15 men. Despite efforts by journalists to intervene, the visibly-distressed Obeidi was dragged out of the hotel by security staff.

Her whereabouts since is unclear. However, Channel 4 News reported on Monday that she had been released, citing government spokesman Moussa Ibrahim: "She was released several days ago."


Gaddafi troops 'attack oil fields'
Libya rebels say Muammar Gaddafi's troops have attacked oilfields in the remote south that the insurgents hope to use to fund their month-old revolt against his regime.

'Regime militias have attacked Mislah oilfield and are heading towards Sarir oilfield farther south,' Citizens for a Democratic Libya, a rebel-linked advocacy group, said in a statement.

'Nafourah oilfield, very near to Mislah, will soon be attacked, too. All these supply oil to Tobruk,' it said, urging both NATO and the United Nations to act to prevent the attack.

The allegations could not be independently verified.


Al Qaeda gets arms in Libya - Algerian official
(Reuters) - Al Qaeda is exploiting the conflict in Libya to acquire weapons, including surface-to-air missiles, and smuggle them to a stronghold in northern Mali, a senior security official in neighbouring Algeria told Reuters.



Click here for updated map


Video of the convoy sent to take Benghazi, taken from a dead soliders cell phone (shows how massive the operation was): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwWwOeZqz6M

Sky News went with Gaddafi minders to find a "civilian town bombed" only they were never shown any such thing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-O5KJavfiQo

TNC presser talking about various details of the revolution (thanks to Waiting for Everyone): http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Topic on the women of the revolution, dispels myths that they are treated poorly: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Videos to bring the Libyan Revolution into context:

The Battle of Benghazi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0vChMDuNd0

BBC Panorama on Libya Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyaPnMnpCAA

BBC Panorama on Libya Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMzwQvcx62s

Tea of Freedom Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WD5tu5bJWKc

Latest indiscriminate shelling in Misurata: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wop3C4zrPXI

Text of the resolution.

How will a no fly zone work? AJE reports: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWEwehTtK2k

Canada: Canada to send six CF-18s for Libya 'no-fly' mission Norway: Norway to join military intervention in Libya Belgium: Belgium ready for a military operation in Libya Qatar and the UAE: Run-up for Western worlds next military commitment ... with unusual support Denmark: Denmark ready for action against Gaddafi France: Following U.N. Vote, France Vows Libya Action Soon Italy: Italy to make bases available for Libya no-fly zone-source United Kingdom: Libya: UK forces prepare after UN no-fly zone vote United States: Nations draw up plans for no-fly zone over Libya Jordan: Military strikes on Libya 'within hours' Spain: Spain Expected to Join NATO No-fly Zone Enforcement over Libya

"One month ago (Western countries) were sooo nice, so nice like pussycats," Saif says in a contemptuous sing-song tone."Now they want to be really aggressive like tigers. (But) soon they will come back, and cut oil deals, contracts. We know this game." - Saif Gaddafi


(Yeah, Saif, as if you weren't "cutting oil deals, contracts" with western states. Who are the 'tigers' now? Bombing your own people.)

A Legal War: The United Nations Participation Act and Libya
The above link is to an overview of why Obama's implementation of the NFZ and R2P is perfectly legal under the law. I will not post it entirely here, however, all objections come down to the misinformed position that Obama, by using forces in Libya, was invoking Article 43 of the United Nations. This is wrong. Obama invoked Article 42, which does not require congressional approval to implement. Proof of this is that Article 43 has never been used.

It goes like this: The US law (Title 22, Chap. 7, Subchap. XIV 287d) grants the President the right to invoke UN Article 42 without authorization, the War Powers Act (Title 50, Chap. 33 1541) grants the President permission to act without authorization under "specific statutory authorization" which, by definition, is what 287d does. 1543 of the War Powers Act requires the President to report to Congress, which he did. One can argue all day and night about the legality of the War Powers Act, doesn't change the fact that under the law as it is written, the President acted within the law.


March 10 7:28pm Saif al Islam Gaddafi says "the time has come for full-scale military action" against Libyan rebels. He goes on to say that Libyan forces loyal to his family "will never surrender, even if western powers intervene".


Libyan Karzai? Chalabi? Forget it
Fortunately, the Council wasn't made-in-the-USA or manufactured by another foreign power. Rather it came into existence, a month ago, at Libyans' own initiative, soon after the winds of revolutionary change blew Libya's way, and after its people rose to the occasion with pride and courage.


Getting Libya's Rebels Wrong
Don't buy Qaddafi's line: The rebels aren't al Qaeda.


Who Are the Rebels?
During weeks of reporting in Benghazi and along the chaotic, shifting front line, Ive spent a great deal of time with these volunteers. The hard core of the fighters has been the shababthe young people whose protests in mid-February sparked the uprising. They range from street toughs to university students (many in computer science, engineering, or medicine), and have been joined by unemployed hipsters and middle-aged mechanics, merchants, and storekeepers. There is a contingent of workers for foreign companies: oil and maritime engineers, construction supervisors, translators. There are former soldiers, their gunstocks painted red, green, and blackthe suddenly ubiquitous colors of the pre-Qaddafi Libyan flag.


A vision of a democratic Libya
The interim national council, formed by opposition groups in Libya, has said it will hold free and fair elections and draft a national constitution. Here is its eight-point plan in full.



Mohammed Nabbous, killed by Gaddafi's forces while trying to report on the massacre in Benghazi

"I'm not afraid to die, I'm afraid to lose the battle" -Mohammed Nabbous, a month ago when all this began


I'm struggling to come up with something to say about this man. I was not aware of the Libyan uprising until I saw Mo's first report, begging for help, posted here on DU. I was stricken. Here was a man giving everything he had to explain a situation that clearly terrified him, I would not call him a coward in that moment, but you could see the fear in his eyes, and desperation in his voice. For 30 days Nabbous would spend many hours covering the uprising in Benghazi. For many nights I would go to sleep with the webcast of Benghazi live on my computer screen, looking to it occasionally to be sure it was still 'there.' Mo treated the chat room as if we were his friends, and in some way, we were. I never signed up to LiveStream to thank him for all his work and it seems somewhat shallow to do so now, given that I was a lurker for so long. Ever since I took over posting these threads "Libya Alhurra" has been linked as a source of information. It wasn't until last night, when I posted, and twitter posted on Mo's adventures out into Benghazi to try to determine the truth of the situation, that Mo's webchannel became a hit, over 2000 people were watching him stream live. This was curious to him because he'd done many reports like this in the past but he appeared somewhat bemused that the view count exploded as it did. Last night Mo became a star. This is a man who first started out with a webcast replete with fear and desperation finally overcoming that aspect of himself and losing that fear, to become someone who was a fighter for the resistance just as much as those who held the guns. Reporting on the front lines of Benghazi became his final act, and for that he should never, ever be forgotten. I'm so sorry Mo that I never got to know you better.

Mo's first report, which many of you may remember, begging for help: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38EXALI60hg

Mo's last report, a fallen hero trying to spread the word to the world: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ecu_iWLn-rg

Mo leaves behind a wife who is with child, she had this to say about the No Fly Zone and R2P UN resolution:

We started this in a pure way, but he turned it bloody. Thousands of our men, women, and children have died. We just wanted our freedom, that's all we wanted, we didn't want power. Before, we could not do a single thing if it was not the way he wanted it. All we wanted was freedom. All we wanted was to be free. We have paid with our blood, with our families, with our men, and we're not going to give up. We are still going to do that no matter what it takes, but we need help. We want to do this ourselves, but we don't have the weapons, the technology, the things we need. I don't want anyone to say that Libya got liberated by anybody else. If NATO didn't start moving when they did, I assure you, I assure you, half of Benghazi if not more would have been killed. If they stop helping us, we are going to be all killed because he has no mercy anymore.


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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
1. Current time in Libya, 2:09am Tuesday, April 5
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
2. K&R
:hi:





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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
3. Perdita Nabbous Interview April 3 2011
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
4. Rebel Chief Asks for Timely Strikes, Helicopters

Source: Wall Street Journal





APRIL 4, 2011, 7:02 P.M. ET.


Rebel Chief Asks for Timely Strikes, Helicopters


By CHARLES LEVINSON


BENGHAZI, LibyaThe top military commander of Libya's rebels said opposition fighters are unlikely to make significant gains against Col. Moammar Gadhafi's forces unless the North Atlantic Treaty Organization responds more quickly to requests for airstrikes, and gives the rebels advanced weapons, including helicopters.

"If NATO listens to us and takes our requests seriously, this war won't last long," said rebel Chief-of-Staff Gen. Abdel Fattah Younis, in an interview at a safe house in a rural suburb of Benghazi. "If they don't give us what we are asking for, I don't know how long it will last."

Fearing attack by pro-Gadhafi sleeper agents in rebel territory, Gen. Younis and other senior rebel leaders sleep and hold meetings in rotating, undisclosed locations.

Gen. Younis said NATO needed to provide advanced long-range weaponry to rebel forces, and allow rebel forces to acquire and fly helicopters against Col. Gadahfi's forces. Rebel leaders have consistently voiced frustration with the limited weapons in their arsenal, which is largely consists of small arms, such as machine guns, rocket-propelled grenades and short-range rockets.

"The international community needs to send us weapons we can confront Gadhafi with," Gen. Younis said. "At least we need weapons equal to Gadhafi's."

...


Nathan Hodge in Washington contributed to this article.


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704587004... ?

mod=googlenews_wsj







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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
5. Video translated: Major General AbdelFattah Younis speaks to fighters on the front line
Video translated: Major General AbdelFattah Younis speaks to fighters on the front line
First of all, speaking to you is not a loss (مش خسارة Arabic phrase used to elevate the one being spoken being to)

First of all, you have honoured us, you have honoured your women before its men. Be sure that each of you is defending his country, its soil and his family and city.. those who are despicable, those who are killing the prisoners, raping women, stealing homes and destroying farms for no other reason but to satiate their fierce desire for revenge. But what the youth of Libya have demonstrated is that they are real men. In the past we used to say who is next to me? is it my cousin? is it another relative? Im sure none of you are asking these questions. What is important now is that they are a fighter and Libyan. We do not care if he is an Obadi, Barasi or from any other time. This is the biggest gain for Libya.

They say: Harm may bring about much good. This harm has brought us together, has made us one united hand, has removed any grudges or rancor from our hearts, has cleaned the negatives from our hearts, and now we are one man. The real man is the one can stand in the battlefield. But especially for the free youth who are fighting independently, this next stage requires organisation. Please, when the armed forces tell you to stop here, then stop. You are dear to us and we do not want to lose you to the enemies bullets that is present. Each of you has value to us. The army is here to protect you and help you perform your role. It wants to make room for you to fight. But fighting must be organised so that we do not go back to Ajdabiya and Benghazi.

It is from the biggest shames for a person to the turn head back east with his car the moment a shell or a bomb explodes. Now that you have an organised army supporting you, this is your chance to seek vengeance from these dogs. And I envy you, you have rifles and fighting with your souls, and God-willing I am with you, thank you. Long live free Libya and God is Greater, God is Greater, God is Greater.


Pretty good speech, will go down in history as a really good speech. Also underscores what I've been saying for weeks, that these youths are unarmed and just trying to be part of something special.
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MedleyMisty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #5
19. Younis is awesome
With him in charge, I really have a lot of hope.

I will go and find the link again to the article with how he went to meet the tribal leaders in Sirte to bring them over to his side - he told his bodyguard to shoot him if they were attacked because he would not die to Gaddafi.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Please do, I would really like that!
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
6. Maltese Prime Minister Libyan Deputy Foreign Minister that Gaddafi relinquish power
Edited on Mon Apr-04-11 07:16 PM by joshcryer
1:05am Maltese Prime Minister Lawrence Gonzi told Libyan Deputy Foreign Minister Abdelati Obeidi that Gaddafi and his family must relinquish power. Obeidi was in Malta following talks with government officials in Greece and Turkey on ways to end the Libyan conflict.

"The Prime Minister reiterated the Maltese government's position that the resolutions of the United Nations must be respected, that the Gaddafi government must step down, that Colonel Gaddafi and his family should leave and there should be an immediate ceasefire and a process to enable the Libyan people to make its democratic choices," the government said in a statement.

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-...
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BOG PERSON Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
7. Libyan Hipster: The Williamsburg Warrior


Thats right, ladies and gentlemen. Hipsters are officially everywhere. A few days ago I spotted this phenomenon on the front-line of fighting between pro and anti-Gaddafi fighters.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Scary terrorist!
:rofl:

Yes, I've noticed that a lot of the front line youths are just educated people who do indeed dress esoterically. There's a fairly famous pic of a guy with red dress shoes. :)
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Red Shoes guy:
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Uh...dude. That's not what we mean by camouflage...
:rofl:





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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
9. UK paves way for flight of Libyan defectors
UK paves way for flight of Libyan defectors
Britain will lift its ban on members of the Libyan regime entering the UK if they renounce their loyalty to Muammar Gaddafi, the foreign secretary, William Hague, told MPs, as western governments continued to try to engineer a political solution to the deadlocked two-month-old conflict.

The announcement came ahead of news that Scottish authorities investigating the Lockerbie bombing are expected to question Moussa Koussa, Libya's foreign minister and Gaddafi confidant, who defected to Britain last week.

After making a formal request to speak with him, Scottish police and prosecutors met Foreign Office officials yesterday and are now expected to gain access to Koussa in the coming days.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
12. Translated: Eyewitness who managed to leave Tripoli speaks of murders and kidnappings
Translated: Eyewitness who managed to leave Tripoli speaks of murders and kidnappings
Khadija: An eyewitness called Bashir At-Tarabulsi who managed to leave Tripoli a few days ago that Gaddafis forces kill whoever goes out on demonstrations against Gaddafis regime in the city

Mohammed: He added that youth have disappeared from Tripoli after they were arrested by these security forces after they went out on demonstrations

Eyewitnss: The security forces have started to go in house by house. They have lists compiled by the intelligence service that have the names of certain individuals supplied by informants in these areas. The informants would say: we saw person x leave from this house a number of times. In my area 3 people have disappeared, I was going to be one of this group (of those who disappear(, but God saved and protected me.

We hear gunfire in an area so we would try to go out, but we would find the security forces waiting for us on the streets. If you try to come near, they would shoot at you and you are very likely to die in these moments. They wouldnt allow you to enter these areas as they would have been bombarded completely and there would be bodies on the streets. Things have become very closed on us in Tripoli, it has reached the stage where people are threatened in their work places. School teachers were sacked because they refused to leave their homes. An employee is sacked simply because he refused to leave his house and go to his job.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #12
118. Terrible violence by Gaddafi and sad -- but evidence Tripoli has been trying to RISE UP -- !!!
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
13. Source: Libyan envoy testing waters for takeover by Gadhafi's son

Source: CNN





Source: Libyan envoy testing waters for takeover by Gadhafi's son


From Nic Robertson, Senior International Correspondent


April 5, 2011 -- Updated 0032 GMT (0832 HKT)


Tripoli, Libya (CNN) -- The envoy sent by Moammar Gadhafi to the West is testing foreign governments' willingness to accept one of the embattled Libyan leader's sons as his successor, a source close to the Libyan leadership said Monday.

Under the proposal, Saif al-Islam Gadhafi, 38, would take over from his father and help to usher in swift reform, the source said.

...


Libyan Deputy Foreign Minister Abdelati Obeidi met with Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou on Sunday. He arrived Monday in Turkey, where he is expected to continue talks.


http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/04/04/libya.tr... /







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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
14. The Glorious Intervention is creating the bloodbath it was preventing.
ironic, huh?
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. False, more like it.
In case you haven't been observing Az Zawaiya, Zinten, Misrata, Ajdabiya. That position can only come from one of ignorance (or outright evil).
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MedleyMisty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. That's an issue I'm really struggling with
Where is the line between ignorance and evil?

I'm going to say it's when information is offered to you but you refuse to listen and persist in being ignorant - at that point it's your own choice.

Oh - check out these recent tweets.

http://twitter.com/thisiskhaledm

Points from a Libyan that pretty much say everything we've been saying, only he knows it a lot better than we do - expat, but with family of the sort targeted by Gaddafi's "stray dogs" operation. Getting out of Libya did not mean safety.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #14
35. Nope, the "glorious intervention" did not go far enough.
The bloodbath would have been horrendous, without the intervention.

I do not know why what happened at Misrata happened - but I have heard that cloud cover allowed Gaddafi's thugs to take advantage of fewer flights to reverse what the rebels had gained.

I hope you never find a situation where you, your family and friends are facing massacre by tank. Maybe you will pray for a "glorious intervention".
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
16. The US Treasury is ending its freeze on former Libyan foreign minister Moussa Koussa's assets
The US Treasury is ending its freeze on former Libyan foreign minister Moussa Koussa's assets following his decision to sever ties to Gaddafi's government and flee to Britain last week, a senior US Treasury official said.

"Koussa's defection and the subsequent lifting of sanctions against him should encourage others within the Libyan government to make similar decisions to abandon the Gaddafi regime," David Cohen, the Treasury's acting undersecretary for terrorism and financial intelligence, said in a blog posting on the Treasury website.

2:27am:
http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-...





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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
17. Jenkins' Ear does comprehensive daily updates on the Ivory Coast, follow it here:
http://jenkinsear.com

Will keep reposting this daily, should put it in the OP. The Ivory Coast is a close analog to Libya. Only they're black Africans and the world doesn't give a shit. If Libya wasn't happening I might be covering Ivory Coast (though most of you know why I took over Libya because of that 180 that happened here).
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
18. Qaddafi Diplomacy Rebuffed as Europeans Back Rebel Demands

Source: Bloomberg Businessweek


Qaddafi Diplomacy Rebuffed as Europeans Back Rebel Demands


April 04, 2011, 8:23 PM EDT


By Flavia Krause-Jackson and Patrick Donahue


April 5 (Bloomberg) -- Muammar Qaddafis diplomatic outreach failed to entice European leaders, as Italy rejected a reported cease-fire proposal and recognized the rebels interim council as the nations only legitimate government.

In Libya, rebels pushed back regime loyalists to gain control of most of the oil port at Brega, according to al- Jazeera television. U.S. and NATO warplanes continued to destroy regime targets, such as military vehicles near Brega hit by a U.S. A-10 Thunderbolt II ground-attack jet, according to a statement from the Pentagon.

The Libyan government is calling for an international dialogue to resolve the conflict, and offering elections and political reforms, spokesman Moussa Ibrahim said at a Tripoli press conference broadcast on Sky News. The possible solutions would not include Qaddafi stepping down now, he said. His future must be decided by the Libyan people since he has symbolic significance for the nation, Ibrahim said.

...


At least two sons of Qaddafi are proposing a plan to move the Libyan leader out of power and oversee a democratic transition under his son, Saif al-Islam, the New York Times reported, citing an unidentified diplomat and Libyan official. It wasnt clear whether the elder Qaddafi would support such a plan.

Replacing Qaddafi with one of his sons is not acceptable, the oppositions al-Isawi said at the news briefing with Frattini.


http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-04-04/qaddafi-dip... -
rebel-demands.html





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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
22. Libyan-American poet drops caution, speaks out

Source: Reuters





Libyan-American poet drops caution, speaks out


By Andrea Shalal-Esa


NEW YORK | Mon Apr 4, 2011 7:57pm EDT



NEW YORK (Reuters) - For Americans looking to understand Libya, scene of a bloody revolt and the latest U.S. military campaign, the writer and poet Khaled Mattawa has become an unlikely guide.

...


He shares what he learns through postings on Facebook and Twitter every few hours, and a poem he composed about the revolution, broadcast on the BBC from London, has for many of his readers become an anthem for the uprising against Gaddafi:


"Now that we have tasted hope,
Now that we have lived on this hard-earned crust,
We would sooner die than seek any other taste to life,
any other way of being human."



...


Although he has often criticized past U.S. military operations, Mattawa welcomed the Western-led intervention in Libya, saying it averted thousands of deaths when Gaddafi initially sought to crush the revolt.

"Had Gaddafi been allowed to retake Benghazi, thousands would have been killed by his forces right away. And thousands more would have been killed or captured in his avowed campaign to cleanse Libya house by house," he said.

Three of his cousins are missing in Tripoli, and government forces broke into the house of another relative last month, stealing jewelry and money and raping an Indonesian woman who worked for the family, he said.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/04/us-libya-usa-...






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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #22
37. Libya Hurra -- !! Thank you!!
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MedleyMisty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
23. Found it
We are men, not savages, he told them. Above all we are Libyans. There must be no brutality, no revenge beatings or any mistreatment of prisoners. It is important for us to emerge as the new leaders of our new country.

You are young and enthusiastic but that is not enough. There are rules to observe in wartime as there are in peacetime. I am proud of you all now and I want to be proud of you when this military activity is at an end.


Driven in a two-vehicle armoured convoy towards Sirte, he spoke to the French commandos and to his personal bodyguard.

Lifting the mans handgun to his neck, he told him: If we are attacked I want you to shoot me. Do it quickly and thoroughly, right here. Do not get this wrong. I will not die at Gaddafis hands.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1372780/Libyas-...

I am definitely a big fan of his. :)
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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 08:50 PM
Response to Original message
24. Breaking! Eman Al Obeidy is going to be doing an interview on AC360 in the next hour!
Edited on Mon Apr-04-11 08:51 PM by Turborama
This was announced by Anderson just now. It's going to be must see TV.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Wow! Don't have cable so let us know what is said!
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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. It was extremely powerful.
I cried.

AC360 is still on. I'll give a synopsis soon.
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. "...and they would sodomize me with their Kalashnikovs"
She described her initial captivity by Gaddafi forces for two days, before she burst into the hotel.

No food or water for those 2 days...hands bound behind her back, legs bound...while hands still tied, before he raped me he sodomized me with his Kalashnikov.

Still no contact with parents, tried to escape to Tunisia, to Tobruk, tried to reach journalists again, but keeps getting picked up by security forces and beaten, told this will happen whenever she tries to leave the house.

"There is no safe place for me in Tripoli."

"Please tell all the human rights organizations to return me safely to my family."

These are only a few fragmented excerpts, there's much more.





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MedleyMisty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. Here's someone who livetweeted a bit of it
https://twitter.com/nusibab

It is absolutely awful, and at this point - anyone who knows about this and chooses to deny it is off my friends list. I know BS when I smell it, and this is true. This is all true - everything that Gaddafi has done, everything that the Libyans are saying, the absolute fact that an intervention was needed and that the Libyans knew that and asked for it, knowing that other countries may not have their best interests at heart but that taking that risk was better than massacre and/or living under this completely inhuman dictatorship any longer.

Denying this is like denying the Holocaust, and when Gaddafi is gone the human species will be much much better off.

People ask why intervene here and not in Darfur - from what I've been reading Gaddafi has been pouring a lot of money into the conflict in Darfur and other conflicts around Africa. Where do you think he gets his mercenaries from? He's been funding terrorist groups - there's a video of a Libyan man talking about how Gaddafi has sent all the country's money to terrorists. He and his regime are pure evil, and I am so happy that the world is coming together to get rid of this cancer on the species. And forever in awe of the Libyans for rising up.

I am also seriously freaking disturbed by how American propaganda has so colonized the minds of people who watch it and participate in it that they can't tell truth from fiction anymore and no longer believe in reality and have closed themselves off inside conspiracy theories and ego defenses.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. Here is a directory of online TV stations for more than MSNBC.
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. And the program repeats again at 1am Eastern nt



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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. Part II is on right now
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. Alleged rape victim in Libya: 'My life is in danger'

Alleged rape victim in Libya: 'My life is in danger'

By the CNN Wire Staff

April 4, 2011 10:16 p.m. EDT


STORY HIGHLIGHTS
*NEW: Eman al-Obeidy says men used rifles to sodomize her
*NEW: She says she has tried to leave Libya, but authorities have thwarted her attempts
*NEW: Her father begs the international community to come to his daughter's aid
*Al-Obeidy says she was interrogated for 72 hours after being dragged from a hotel


(CNN) -- Eman al-Obeidy, the woman who burst into a Tripoli hotel to tell journalists she was beaten and raped by forces loyal to Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi last month, is no longer in custody but says she still fears for her life.

In two telephone interviews with CNN's "AC360," al-Obeidy spoke about her alleged abuse. At times in
tears, at other times defiant, she recalled men pouring alcohol into her eyes and repeatedly using rifles
to sodomize her. Al-Obeidy said has since been stopped trying to leave Libya and that she has nightmares.

"My life is in danger, and I call on all human rights organization ... to expose the truth and to let me leave now. I am being held hostage here," she said. "They have threatened me with death and told me I will never leave prison again, if I go to the journalists or tell them anything about what's happening in Tripoli."

Al-Obeidy said she spent 72 hours under interrogation after being dragged away from the Tripoli hotel where she tried to tell journalists about her alleged abuse.

Interrogators poured water on her face and threw food at her during the relentless questioning, which ended only after she was examined by a doctor to prove she had been raped, al-Obeidy said. "And when the test came, it verified that I was raped and tortured ... then I was freed."


MORE w/ video:
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/04/04/libya.rape.c...





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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #31
40. They will try to kill her -- !! What can be done to help her??
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #25
32. Part II now here
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 11:08 PM
Original message
Thanks all. I passed out on my couch, hasn't happened before in awhile...
...just passing out without knowing I was passing out. So I am going to sleep, sorry for not updating as much today. :(
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
44. Sleep is way way more important.
That is when the body's stem cells do their repair.

Have a good one.
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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 12:06 AM
Response to Original message
49. Have a good rest, man. You deserve it. The full interview will be online soon anyway
BTW thanks for the Misrata updates in the OP, I have added them to the LBN thread I started about it: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Selamat tidur, as they say here in Indonesia.
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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #25
57. Full transcript is now online
Here: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1104/04/acd.01.h...

I'll post a links to the the videos of it when it goes online.
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 01:51 AM
Response to Reply #57
58. The video is posted now:
Click on title in CNN video menu if this video doesn't come up automatically:


Libyan woman speaks out about rape 8:40

http://www.cnn.com/video/#


Thanks for the transcript link. :fistbump:





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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 02:10 AM
Response to Reply #58
59. Thanks for the heads up. Here are direct links to Parts 1 & 2 & the post interview discussion
Part 1: http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2011/04/05/video-libyan-woma... /

Part 2: http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2011/04/05/video-alleged-lib... /

Post interview discussion: http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2011/04/05/video-alleged-rap... /

I'll upload them to my YouTube channel if I get the time and if someone else hasn't done it already by then.
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strategery blunder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 03:59 AM
Response to Reply #59
65. Thank you for gathering the links
It's 2 AM here, and I need bed, but I'll watch at some point after I get some shut-eye. Obviously posting a reply makes it easier to find within a 100-post thread. :)
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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 03:06 AM
Response to Reply #58
62. Found all 3 parts on YouTube and have posted them in the Videos Forum
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 04:53 AM
Response to Reply #62
68. Great!
Eman's interviews are powerful.

It was surprising to learn that she made it to a border crossing with Tunisia, but was picked up at the Libyan passport control point. She nearly made it to safety!





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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
26. Libyan rebels Gaddafi forces are worried about their finances and want to start exporting oil / gas
3:20am Libyan rebels fighting Gaddafi's forces are worried about their financial resources and want to start exporting both oil and natural gas, the UN special envoy to Libya said.

Abdelilah al-Khatib spoke to the Security Council about his recent visits to Libya, where he met with the rebels' Transitional National Council and members of Gaddafi's government in Tripoli.

"The council raised concerns about the lack of funds as well as issues surrounding the marketing and sale of oil and gas, stressing that the issue required urgent attention in order to enable the economy to function effectively," he told the 15-nation Security Council on Monday.

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-...
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
36. EU says it could assist member countries facing a refugee crisis
The European Union said it could provide special assistance to member countries facing a refugee crisis and ease refugees' conditions after political upheaval in north Africa.

"In case of a massive inflow of displaced persons and refugees (from Libya, Tunisia or Egypt), the European Commission would be ready to make use of the 2001 directive that provides immediate protection" to these people, said Cecilia Malstroem, EU Commissioner for Home Affairs, on Monday, the AFP news agency reported.

This comes as more than 22,000 migrants, mostly from Tunisia, have landed on the Italian island of Lampedusa since theTunisian revolution in January.

4:03am:
http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-...





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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
38. Libyans see no room for negotiations (AJE video report - 2:10)
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
39. Lawmakers: UK misjudged Middle East arms sales
Edited on Mon Apr-04-11 10:56 PM by tabatha
LONDON Britain approved the export of shotguns and tear gas to Libya, machine guns and sniper rifles to Bahrain, and miltary technology to Yemen over the last three years, lawmakers disclosed Tuesday in a report criticizing the governments involved.

Legislators accused successive British governments of putting efforts to boost arms sales ahead of concerns over the risk that authoritarian regimes could use U.K.-supplied weapons against their critics.

In a joint report, Parliament's foreign affairs, defense, international development and business committees said that ministers had failed to properly consider the implications of weapons sales to the Middle East and elsewhere.

"Both the present government and its predecessor misjudged the risk that arms approved for export to certain authoritarian countries in North Africa and the Middle East might be used for internal repression," the report said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110404/ap_on_re_eu/eu_brit...



About fricking time.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. Maybe all of this global gun running by UK, France, Russia, USA should be stopped???
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. It is terrible to realize that the biggest export by the US
is weapons.
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catchnrelease Donating Member (359 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
42. K&R
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
45. NYT story covers Eman al-Obeidi interview with Anderson Cooper

Source: New York Times





After Rape Report in Libya, Woman Sees Benefit in Publicity


By DAVID D. KIRKPATRICK
Published: April 4, 2011



TRIPOLI

...


During my entire arrest period, I was being asked one thing: to come out on the Libyan state channel and say that those who kidnapped me were not from Qaddafis security forces; rather they were from the revolutionaries and armed gangs, Ms. Obeidy said. That was their only request, and I kept refusing.

...


I was kidnapped by a car, and they beat me in the street, she said. They told me, Whenever you leave the house, we will do this to you. She added, I had asked to see the journalists, so they beat and hit me and sent me back.

...


The Qaddafi government has spun through a series of contradictory statements about Ms. Obeidy since she was forced from the hotel. The government spokesman, Musa Ibrahim, first suggested that she was drunk and possibly insane, later that she was a stable person bringing credible criminal charges, and lastly that she was a prostitute and a thief who had a long history with those boys. He later said that her rape charges were dropped because she refused a medical exam and that the men had brought defamation charges against her.

But in her interviews, Ms. al-Obeidy said that she had submitted to a medical examination and that it had confirmed she had been raped. After three days of incarceration and interrogation, she said, she was transferred to a prosecutor who said he would press rape charges against the men but has done nothing so far.

She said her ordeal began when armed militiamen at one of the many checkpoints throughout Tripoli removed her from a taxi. In the CNN interview, Ms. Obeidy said the militiamen had bound her hands and legs, beat her and hit her, and poured alcohol in her eyes to blind her. She said they took turns raping her and sodomizing her with rifles. They would say, Let the men from eastern Libya come and see what we are doing to their women and how we rape them, Ms. Obeidy said.


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/05/world/africa/05tripol...







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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 11:48 PM
Response to Original message
46. Libyan rebels get diplomatic, military boost


Source: Washington Post





Libyan rebels get diplomatic, military boost


By Liz Sly and Karen DeYoung, Monday, April 4, 10:49 PM


TRIPOLI, Libya Rebels fighting government forces in eastern Libya were bolstered on Monday by newdiplomatic recognition and gains on the battlefield as a bid by the government to resolve the countryscrisis by replacing Moammar Gaddafi with one of his sons appeared to fizzle amid internationalskepticism.

Italy became the third country after France and Qatar to recognize the opposition Transitional National Council as Libyas legitimate government, and Kuwait said it expected to follow suit in the coming days.

...


In eastern Libya, there were reports that rebels had retaken most of the oil town of Brega, the front line in the seesawing battle for control of a stretch of coastal towns strung between Ajdabiya, about 100 miles south of Benghazi, and Gaddafis home town of Sirte, 278 miles east of Tripoli.

...


Rebel officials also expressed concern about a mysterious explosion at a rebel-held oil field in Misla, about 250 miles south of Ajdabiya. The blast occurred after a four-wheel-drive vehicle was seen moving around the area, raising suspicions of sabotage by Gaddafi forces. The interim government is hoping to use the oil fields that have fallen under its control as a source of revenue to run its section of the country and to procure arms.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/rebels-get-diplomat... -

boost/2011/04/04/AFnRmrfC_story.html







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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
47. Rachel Maddow: "The regime is disintegrating like powdered sugar in a rainstorm"
:rofl:





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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 12:03 AM
Response to Original message
48. Libya: Government says Libya needs Gaddafi in power

Source: BBC





4 April 2011 Last updated at 23:22 ET


Libya: Government says Libya needs Gaddafi in power


The Libyan government has said it is open to "any" political reform but Muammar Gaddafi must stay in power to avoid a new Iraq or Somalia.

...


Meanwhile, evacuees from the besieged city of Misrata accused pro-Gaddafi forces of atrocities against civilians.

...


'Corpses in the street'


"You have to visit Misrata to see the massacre by Gaddafi," said Omar Boubaker, a 40-year-old engineer with a bullet wound to the leg, brought to the Tunisian port of Sfax by a French aid group.

"Corpses are in the street. Hospitals are overflowing."


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12967570





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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 12:13 AM
Response to Original message
50. Conyers: Congress Should Bar U.S. Ground Troops From Libya




Robert Naiman.Policy Director, Just Foreign Policy


Conyers: Congress Should Bar U.S. Ground Troops From Libya


Posted: 04/ 4/11 06:03 PM ET


In the wake of President Obama's decision to go to war in Libya without Congressional authorization or debate, there's a heightened level of public and media cynicism about the ability of any Congress to constrain any administration on warmaking in any way whatsoever.

This is dangerous. It's important for Congress to assert its war powers: important to prevent the U.S. from being sucked into another quagmire, important to build pressure for a negotiated resolution in Libya by shutting down the possibility of further military escalation, important for future efforts to prevent and limit U.S. wars that Congress act affirmatively to impose limits.

...


Michigan Representative John Conyers has put forward an initiative that has a very strong claim to majority support. Conyers plans to introduce an amendment to the next government funding bill -- the Continuing Resolution -- that would prevent appropriated funds from being used to fund any type of ground troop presence on Libyan territory. Together with Reps. Honda, Stark, and Woolsey, Rep. Conyers is circulating a letter to his colleagues in support of this amendment.

...


Some will say: this measure is not necessary, because the president has promised not to put U.S. ground troops in Libya, and Defense Secretary Gates has stated his firm opposition. Indeed, it is extremely unlikely that the administration will try to put ground troops in Libya tomorrow. But there is a saying in Washington: "It's always too early, until it's too late." If we get to the fork in the road where putting ground troops in is a live proposition politically, it may be too late for Congress to stop it. The administration was publicly against a "no fly zone," before it was in favor of something much more aggressive. That's why it's important to lay down the barrier now.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-naiman/libya-groun...







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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #50
119. Love Conyers -- but Iraq/Afghanistan are testimony to Congress' surrendering all to rightwing...
Here we have a movement for liberation --

and think this is an excellent article on it --

http://www.juancole.com/2011/03/an-open-letter-to-the-l...
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 12:17 AM
Response to Original message
51. Libyan wounded describe "hell" of Misrata (Gaddafi using tanks & snipers to carry out a "massacre")
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 12:31 AM
Response to Original message
52. Misratas Freedom Fighters Outsmart Gaddafis Soldiers!
Wefaq Libya Reports from Misrata:

For each battle, one way to win includes this war trick! Because our freedom fighters have a sense of humor, theyve been inspired to use this method to overcome the tyrant. Several days ago, the freedom fighters unloaded the fuel station located on a the service road for heavy transport vehicles. The gasoline it contained was emptied and was replaced with water instead. The freedom fighters then retreated thus leaving the fueling station to be accessible to the nearby Gaddafi brigade. Because its easy to trap a mouse in a trap, the rats of Gaddafi looted the fuel station and started filling their armored vehicles with fuel! When they attempt to leave, their vehicles stopped moving , and that is when our freedom fighters ambushed them! Gaddafis solders were forced to flee leaving their dead vehicles behind. I guess the next time they want to fill up, theyll have to taste the fuel to be sure!

http://shabablibya.org/en/featured-news/misratas-freedo...

(How could they mistake water for gas --- unless there was still a gas odor?)
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 12:40 AM
Response to Original message
53. Egypt and Tunisia should play a major role in Libya solution, says professor
Hani Faris, a political science professor at the University of British Colombia in Vancouver, spoke to Al Jazeera about the current situation in Libya and the way forward to solve the issues.


"We have arrived at a junction in the Libyan crisis where diplomacy needs to play a role, all parties involved in the Libya crisis have seen that they can not have their way, there needs to be a settlement the sooner the better.

"The Libyan people really need to put a stop to the war that is taken place.

"It is well known that the regime in Libya can not survive, Ghaddafi himself must go, and he will go. We know that there is a fusion between the state and Ghaddafi, there are no autonomous state institutions. and when Ghaddafi leaves his regime will fall apart.

"The Arab world should not leave the negotiations and intervention in Libya to non Arab states, Egypt and Tunis have a very special role to play, both of them are highly regarded in the world today. Both of them are neighbors. They can both play a major role in bringing a settlement to Libya that recognizes the needs and demands for freedom and peace in the country."


6:15am:
http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-...





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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 12:55 AM
Response to Original message
54. Lockerbie lawyer meets Libyan rebels over 'evidence' of Gaddafi involvement

Source: The Guardian




Lockerbie lawyer meets Libyan rebels over 'evidence' of Gaddafi involvement


Lawyer for victims of Lockerbie bombing and IRA attacks using Libyan-supplied Semtex meets revolutionary leaders in Benghazi



Chris McGreal in Benghazi guardian.co.uk


Monday 4 April 2011 17.51 BST


A British lawyer representing victims of the Lockerbie bombing is meeting Libya's revolutionary leaders in pursuit of evidence a senior rebel claims to have that Muammar Gaddafi ordered the attack.

Jason McCue, head of the Libya Victims Initiative, is also seeking "an apology from the Libyan people" for the blowing up of the Pan Am flight in 1988 and the country's supply of explosives used in IRA attacks.

McCue said he had been invited to Benghazi by the chairman of its interim governing council, Mustafa Abdul Jalil, who served as Gaddafi's justice minister. Jalil has said publicly that he has evidence of the Libyan leader's involvement in the Lockerbie bombing but has not elaborated further.

...


"There are evidential issues, particularly on Lockerbie. Jalil has made indications that he has evidence linking Gaddafi to it. We've fought for years and never had that information. It's about getting that evidence getting apologies which are worth their weight in gold to the victims," he said.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/apr/04/lockerbie-lawy...







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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 01:14 AM
Response to Original message
55. "Had the media not taken interest in my case, I would have never seen daylight again"

Source: Channel 4 News (UK)





Libyan woman accusing Gaddafi forces of rape is freed


Monday 04 April 2011


Jonathan Rugman
Foreign Affairs Correspondent


"I am a prisoner in Tripoli," said Eman al-Obeidi, speaking to a dissident Libyan TV channel by telephone. She claimed she had been beaten up and frequently harassed by plainclothes police after telling the world's media that she had been stopped at a Tripoli checkpoint and then repeatedly raped.

...


Ms Obeidi said that Libyan authorities had set her free but that she was then again detained by men with machine guns at the weekend. "They took me around the city for hours before they left me at the Criminal Investigation Department, who released me later," she said.

"Had the media not taken interest in my case, I would have never seen daylight again."

...


"When people go out to demonstrate, they say they are taking hallucinogenic pills," she said. "When

people go out asking for freedom and dignity, they say they are drunk. And when I came out to ask for my

rights, they said I was mentally retarded. I do not know how to respond to this regime."


http://www.channel4.com/news/libyan-woman-accusing-gadd...







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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #55
120. LIBYA HURRA - - !! Eman al Obeidi is a wonderful example of Libyan courage --
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 01:28 AM
Response to Original message
56. Libyan Rebels Aspire to Democracy
In a memorandum presented to the various countries taking part in the Western alliance entitled Vision of the Democratic Principles in Libya, which Al-Sharq al-Awsat is exclusively publishing, the Council, which is headed by Counselor Mustafa Abd-al-Jalil, explained its general vision for rebuilding the national and democratic Libyan state in a way that goes in line with the hopes and aspirations of the Libyan people and the requirements of this important historic stage in which the revolution of 17 February is passing.

The memorandum said: Time has come for drawing up the main features of our modern, free, and unified country after the elimination of the atmosphere of fear, repression, and tyranny and after we defeated the crimes of domination and humiliation practiced by the battalions and gangs of the hateful regime of Al-Qadhafi throughout difficult and lean decades. The memorandum pointed out the difficult historic experiment through which the Libyan people passed and which taught them many political lessons that emphasized beyond any doubt that there is no alternative for setting up the society of freedom, democracy, and the sovereignty of the principles of human rights.

http://www.juancole.com/2011/04/libyan-rebels-aspire-to...
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 02:29 AM
Response to Original message
60. Gaddafi troops are pushed into Brega's old town; residents flee into desert
Al Jazeera's Sue Turton reports on how the pro-democracy fighters have managed to push Gaddafis troops into the old town of Brega. And how many of the residents are desperate to leave due to shortage of basic supplies:

Residents flee eastern town of Brega (2:15)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=art2ToyqDSs&feature=play...

OR watch at AJE:

8:15am:
http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-...





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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 02:49 AM
Response to Original message
61. Moussa Koussa could face criminal proceedings in British court over alleged role in IRA bombings
The Telegraph today reveals exclusively how Libyan defector Moussa Koussa could face criminal proceedings in a British court over alleged involvement in IRA bombings. The legal team representing 160 families of Republican atrocities are considering bringing private prosecutions against the former Libyan foreign minister alleged to be involved in the suuply of Semtex to Irish terrorists. Matthew Jury, a solicitor at H20 Law representing the families said Koussa's role in arming the IRA is unequivocal:


We had not anticipated that Moussa Koussa would come to this jurisdiction. Now that he has, such considerations are whether to commence private civil and or criminal prosecutions against him and the making of enquiries of his asset position in the UK and elsewhere. We have spent nearly 20 years gathering evidence and his role in this is unequivocal.


08.00:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindi...





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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 03:19 AM
Response to Original message
63. Libyan woman who claimed rape gets death threats

Source: AP





Libyan woman who claimed rape gets death threats


Tue Apr 5, 12:09 am ET


NEW YORK A Libyan woman who says she is the person who burst into a Tripoli hotel to tell foreign journalists that she had been gang raped by Moammar Gadhafi's troops told a CNN interviewer Monday that she is out of custody but is receiving death threats from regime loyalists.

...


She said, "There is no safe place for me in Tripoli. All my phones are monitored, even this phone I am speaking on right now is monitored. And I am monitored."


"Yesterday I was kidnapped by a car and they beat me in the street, then brought me here after I was dragged around," she said.

"Yes, yes, I want to leave Tripoli. In the middle of the night I get nightmares, and I feel threats 24 hours a day. They are constantly threatening me, with death."



The woman interviewed by CNN said that after the initial hotel uproar, Gadhafi's militamen bought her new clean clothes and took her to the Libyan TV station to have her broadcast a recantation of her story, to say that the rebels had raped her, but she refused to do so.

"The TV station has no credibility and I was fearing the consequences," she told CNN. "Behind the camera, I was facing 15 Kalashnikovs."


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110405/ap_on_re_af/af_liby...






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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 03:36 AM
Response to Original message
64. The Telegraph reports Gaddafi sons split over ceasefire
Reports are emerging of a family rift opening up between Gaddafi's two sons Mutassim and Saif over plans for a ceasefire.

Damien McElroy reports in today's paper: Gaddafi sons split over plans for ceasefire


While Saif believes that talks would be impossible without a ceasefire, Mutassim wants to ensure the regime cannot be beaten. He is reported to have said 'people get sick of dying, we have to keep fighting until we've beaten the opposition'.


08.41:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindi...


Full story here:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindi...





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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 04:28 AM
Response to Original message
66. Opposition hopes to begin its first independent oil shipment on Tuesday--Reuters
Reuters news agency has reported that Libyan pro-democracy fighters hoped to begin their first independent oil shipment on Tuesday. The tanker Equator, which can carry 1 million barrels of crude, was due to arrive at the east Libyan port of Marsa el Hariga.

The pro-democracy leadership says Qatar agreed to market oil from east Libyan fields no longer under Gaddafi's control after the Gulf state recognized the revolutionary council in Benghazi as Libya's legitimate government.

Italy, a major investor in Libyan oil, also sided with the rebels on Monday, promising them weapons and demanding that Gaddafi and his family, who enjoyed warm ties with Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi, leave Libya.

10:30am:
http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-...





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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 07:02 AM
Response to Reply #66
77. More details from Reuters:


The rebels are also to receive a boost with the loading of their first oil shipment due to begin Tuesday. The tanker Equator, which can carry 1 million barrels of crude, was due to arrive at the eastern Libyan port of Marsa el Hariga, near Tobruk, satellite ship tracking data showed Monday.

A full load would be worth more than $100 million, helping the rebel leadership to pay salaries and bolster its image as a potential government capable of taking over.

...


Italy, a major investor in Libyan oil, also sided with the rebels Monday, promising them weapons and demanding that Gaddafi and his family, who enjoyed warm ties with Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi, leave Libya.

"It rectifies a wrong," said Jalal el-Galal, a member of the rebel media committee in Benghazi. "Of course, Berlusconi is close to Gaddafi, but that doesn't mean that Italy is. It is important that Italy should take this step because of our natural ties."

...


http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/04/05/uk-libya-idUKL...






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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 04:33 AM
Response to Original message
67. BREAKING, AFP: NATO has launched new airstrike on Gaddafi forces near Brega nt



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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 05:20 AM
Response to Original message
69. Freelance Journalist From Maryland Missing In Libya

Source: AP


Freelance Journalist From Maryland Missing In Libya


4:50 PM, Apr 3, 2011

Written by
Jameel Harris

BALTIMORE (AP) -- Relatives and friends say a freelance journalist from Baltimore is missing in Libya. Matthew VanDyke's mother says she last spoke to him on March 12.

She says "there was a lot of noise" during the call and he asked her to call her back the next day.

...


Lauren Fischer, VanDyke's girlfriend, says he had been planning a trip to Brega the same day government forces stormed a rebel stronghold there.


http://www.wusa9.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=1448...





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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 05:32 AM
Response to Original message
70. NATO airstrikes near Brega hit 2 government vehicles--The Telegraph
More on this morning's Libyan airstrikes (see 10.25). Nato struck some 18 miles east of the kel oil port, which has been the scene of fierce fighting over the past week.

Two government pick-up trucks heading for rebel positions were destroyed, although the soldiers inside appeared to escape unhurt, according to reports.

11.07:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindi...





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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 05:47 AM
Response to Original message
71. 'If I die, I'll die as a martyr for Libya,' says a 40-year-old high school social studies teacher

Source: AFP





Libya rebels race to train civilians for the front


'If I die, I'll die as a martyr for Libya,' says a 40-year-old high school social studies teacher



AFP
Published: 12:12 April 5, 2011


Benghazi: The volunteers come to the training camp in jeans and flip-flops, most having never held a weapon, but in three weeks they will be sent to the front to battle Mouammer Gaddafi's tanks.


In focus: Unrest in the Middle East


They form uneven lines as they assemble in a former military base in this Libyan rebel stronghold - students, teachers, oil workers and retirees who until February lived quiet, if constrained, lives under his regime. Everything changed when their pro-democracy protests were met with a hail of gunfire and artillery from Gaddafi's well-trained troops, forcing them to hastily assemble a people's army to defend themselves.

"If I die, I'll die as a martyr for Libya," said Hani Abdelqader, a 40-year-old high school social studies teacher, outfitted in new green camouflage. "We are defending ourselves. We are defending civilians."

He has never served in the military, never even held a gun, but he says that did not make much of a difference when Gaddafi's forces were shelling Benghazi two weeks ago and his wife and two children huddled inside, terrified.

...


Reinforcements will emerge from the training camps in the coming weeks, but they will include men like Hassan Ebrahim, a stocky 62-year-old with several grandchildren who turned up on a mild day in a long wool coat. "If they give me a Kalashnikov I will use a Kalashnikov. If they give me a mortar launcher I'll use that. I'll do anything to defend my family," he said.



"Gaddafi will kill everyone. All of us need to learn how to fire a Kalashnikov, even the women."


...


http://gulfnews.com/news/region/libya/libya-rebels-race... ?
localLinksEnabled=false&utm_source=Feeds&utm_medium=RSS&utm_term=%20News_RSS_feed
%20&utm_content=1.787751&utm_campaign=%20Libya_rebels_race_to_train_civilia







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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 05:54 AM
Response to Original message
72. Libyan-owned ship carrying imported petrol is unloading at port of Zawiyah to fill regime supplies
A Libyan-owned ship carrying a cargo of imported petrol has docked at a government-controlled port helping to relieve a fuel shortage, according to government officials. They said the ship was owned by the Libyan state shipping company and was unloading at the port of Zawiyah.

11.44:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindi...





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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 06:10 AM
Response to Original message
73. BREAKING, CNN: Opposition fighters retreating from Brega under heavy artillery barrage
Ben Wedeman just reported live that opposition forces have been under "intense and almost constant artillery fire."

Opposition is firing rockets back, but not as intense or as long-range as the incoming artillery barrage.

Wedeman is with the retreating opposition fighters 25-30 km outside of Brega and "still pulling back."





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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 07:37 AM
Response to Reply #73
81. Update on fighting at Brega from AJA
Al Jazeera Arabic correspondent near Brega has reported that Gaddafis forces have pushed the volunteers from the revolutionaries 30km east back towards Ajdabiya. They seem to have received reinforcements as they have started to heavily bombard the revolutionaries with rockets once more. Their artillery fire is reaching big distances, and even as the media team was retreating, rockets were still falling nearby.

Earlier today, 2 Gaddafi scout cars came near where the revolutionaries were stationed, and both cars were destroyed completely. In another incident, revolutionary pickup trucks received direct hits from Gaddafi rockets.

The battle is still ongoing and though the volunteers have retreated, the trained soldiers headed by AbdulFattah Younis are still in the front lines and have been bombarding Gaddafis forces for 3 hours straight with Grad missiles and rockets. Gaddafis forces suffered large losses near the University of AnNajm as Sati in Brega yesterday but they have changed their fighting tactics and seem more equipped today

14:06:
http://www.libyafeb17.com/2011/04/april-5th-updates /





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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 06:29 AM
Response to Original message
74. In Libya, being a rebel medic means being a target


Source: AP





In Libya, being a rebel medic means being a target



ADJABIYA, Libya (AP) Overwhelmed by fatigue, Ramzi Mohammed took a deep drag on his cigarette, leaned against the door of his ambulance and recalled the blur of the past six weeks. He's seen fighters torn apart by rockets. He's been shot at for trying to rescue rebel fighters. And three days before his wedding date, while he scrambled on the battlefield, supporters of Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi killed his fiancee back home.


...


Doctors and drivers say being devoted to saving lives has earned them no mercy from Gadhafi's forces, who have opened fire on ambulances, destroying four of them. Four doctors are missing and one a medical student was accidentally killed by a NATO airstrike, said Gebreil Hewadi, a doctor and member of the rebel committee responsible for rebel medical affairs.

Another medic, Hatim al-Hodairy, said that when he and others tried to retrieve bodies in Ras Lanouf, an oil-refinery town along the Mediterranean Sea, government troops used the moment to strike.

"There were some bodies in a field that attracted a lot of people," he said. "Gadhafi's forces knew that relatives or friends and family would try to pick up the dead bodies, and started shelling us as we did. So we quit trying to get bodies from faraway places."

...



http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5i6BK1... ?
docId=c7b892319c5c469982b3110c592d2264







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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 06:36 AM
Response to Original message
75. Rebel spokesman in #Benghazi: "be patient, the end is near, one week, two weeks"...
A tweet spotted by The Telegraph:

Francesca Cicardi, a freelance journalist in Cairo, Tweets:


Rebel spokesman in #Benghazi: "be patient, the end is near, one week, two weeks"... political solution
is now the focus - and patience... #Libya







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al bupp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #75
85. That's easy for him to say, sir, he's not in Misrata /nt
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 06:51 AM
Response to Original message
76. An oil tanker has arrived at the rebel-held east Libyan port of Marsa el Hariga--Reuters nt



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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 07:11 AM
Response to Original message
78. UK PM seeks to reassure Pakistan's Muslim population that Libya action is not an "attack on Islam"
David Cameron, who is in Pakistan, has sought to reassure the Muslim population that the military operation in Libya is not an "attack on Islam".


Nothing could be further from the truth.

I don't think anyone can seriously argue that international action in Libya is an attack on Islam. Backed by the United Nations and the Arab League, we have taken action to protect people - predominantly Muslim people - from slaughter, just as we did in Kosovo over a decade ago.



13.01:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindi...





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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 07:22 AM
Response to Original message
79. Al Jazeera Arabic correspondent near Brega...
14:06 Al Jazeera Arabic correspondent near Brega has reported that Gaddafis forces have pushed the volunteers from the revolutionaries 30km east back towards Ajdabiya. They seem to have received reinforcements as they have started to heavily bombard the revolutionaries with rockets once more. Their artillery fire is reaching big distances, and even as the media team was retreating, rockets were still falling nearby.

Earlier today, 2 Gaddafi scout cars came near where the revolutionaries were stationed, and both cars were destroyed completely. In another incident, revolutionary pickup trucks received direct hits from Gaddafi rockets.

The battle is still ongoing and though the volunteers have retreated, the trained soldiers headed by AbdulFattah Younis are still in the front lines and have been bombarding Gaddafis forces for 3 hours straight with Grad missiles and rockets. Gaddafis forces suffered large losses near the University of AnNajm as Sati in Brega yesterday but they have changed their fighting tactics and seem more equipped today

http://www.libyafeb17.com/
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 07:45 AM
Response to Reply #79
82. Good afternoon, Iterate!
Thanks for the update. I just now added it as a reply to an early report on Brega, too, though I think you were right to post it in the main thread. For followers of the Libya news threads, it's often easier to catch up just by looking for what's new at the end of the thread--especially when a thread gets long.

:hi:





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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #82
86. Ah, Good afternoon pinboy3niner
I gotcha. I think the wonder of it all is though that we actually have so few duplicates and so few news items, videos, or blog items missed. By all rights it just shouldn't work this well.

A fine afternoon here, all is in bloom and the storks are on the nest.

http://www.pfalzstorch.de/bilder/live1.html
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #79
83. Libyan rebels and government trade salvos at Brega



Libyan rebels and government trade salvos at Brega


BEN HUBBARD and HADEEL AL-SHALCHI, Associated Press
Updated 05:08 a.m., Tuesday, April 5, 2011


BREGA, Libya (AP) Libyan government forces on Tuesday unleashed a withering bombardment of rebel forces trying to take back a key oil town, pushing them back even as the regime said Moammar Gadhafi might consider some reforms but wouldn't be stepping down.

The rebels managed to take part of oil town of Brega the day before, aided by an international air campaign that has pounded Gadhafi's heavy weapons, but the rocket and tank bombardment unleashed on the rebels indicates the government's offensive capabilities remain intact.

"When you see this, the situation is very bad. We cannot match their weapons," said Kamal Mughrabi, 64, a retired soldier who joined the rebel army. "If the planes don't come back and hit them we'll have to keep pulling back."

Early on Tuesday, there was an airstrike against a convoy of eight government vehicles advancing toward rebel positions, rebel officer Abdel-Bast Abibi said, citing surveillance teams. The strike hit two of the vehicles, prompting the others to turn around and race back into the city.


http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Libyan-rebels-and... -
1322832.php#ixzz1IeXs581O





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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 07:26 AM
Response to Original message
80. ICC Prosecutor on Libya: "The shootings of civilians was a pre-determined plan"

Source: Reuters





ICC prosecutor wants access to Libya's Moussa


Tue Apr 5, 2011 11:48am GMT
By Aaron Gray-Block


THE HAGUE (Reuters) - The International Criminal Court prosecutor said on Tuesday he wants to speak with former Libyan Foreign Minister Moussa Koussa for his investigation into crimes against civilians in the North African state.

...


"The fact that Moussa Koussa defected is interesting because that is one option you have. If you have
no power to stop the crimes then you can defect to show you are not responsible," Moreno-Ocampo told Reuters in an interview.


...


"We have evidence that after the Tunisia and Egypt conflicts, people in the (Gaddafi) regime were planning how to control demonstrations in Libya," Moreno-Ocampo said, adding the plan started to be developed in January.


"The shootings of civilians was a pre-determined plan."


Moreno-Ocampo also raised concern over security in Tripoli, saying his office believes people considered disloyal to the regime are being abducted, tortured and killed.

...


http://af.reuters.com/article/topNews/idAFJOE7340EF2011...





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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 08:05 AM
Response to Original message
84. The Price of the Divide on Libya
The Price of the Divide on Libya
By Guest ⋅ April 4, 2011 ⋅Contributed by Tasnim

The military intervention in Libya has divided the left into two camps, the pro-interventionists and the anti-imperialists who define it as a military assault equivalent to the war in Iraq. At the centre of this division is an apparent contradiction between supporting the peoples revolution against autocracy and an anti-imperialist stance which denounces western hypocrisy. As a Libyan, I reject this false contradiction. I see myself as an anti-imperialist, I denounce western double standards, and I supported the revolution and the intervention. I see no need to twist myself into an arguing position where I declare myself to be for the peoples revolution, but against the intervention that sustained it. That, to me, would be the contradiction.

The accusations levelled at the pro-interventionists include naivety, hypocrisy, and selling their soul (and dignity) to the devil. The rhetorical questions fly: How can you believe this is a humanitarian intervention? Who bolstered Gaddafi? How about Bahrain, Yemen, Palestine? Afghanistan, Iraq, see what they did there? Rwanda, see what they didnt do there? Do the three letters O-I-L mean anything to you?

The charge of naivety is popular, because proving youre not naive can be difficult. I dont speak for Libyans, but I can speak for myself and those I know, and we dont need to be told that those intervening in Libya are acting in their own interests. None of us believe that this so-called humanitarian intervention is motivated solely by concern for human life. We know who rehabilitated Gaddafi. We watched Berlusconi kiss his hand and Clinton pose with his son Mutassim and Blair sit in his tent and announce a New Era, all when the brutality of the regime was being masked by the thinnest possible patina of change, the change of Saifs western bought PR.

We also remember when Gaddafi was lionized by some in the left as an anti-imperialist Nasserite during the 70s and 80s, a time when people were hung in public and Libyans were poisoned against progressive ideas because of the brutality of the regime that pretended to espouse them. We remember when Gaddafi was the enemy of the west. We remember Operation El Dorado Canyon. We remember the collective punishment of sanctions as a whole nation was held responsible for Pan Am 103, only adding to the suffering of the most vulnerable. We remember when we were the pariah-state, and Libyans were the terrorists after the plutonium. We dont need to be told that this intervention is, as one friend put it, mish ashan sawad eyona not for the sake of our eyes. None of us are apolitical or naive, we havent had a chance to be. Yet all of us support the intervention.

...

Complete article:
http://www.kabobfest.com/2011/04/the-price-of-the-divid...


Highest recommendation, must read, anything short of begging for a look-see. Ok, I will beg after all. It's a better expression somehow than the most lauded pundits, perhaps only because it comes from the heart and bitter experience but without heartless cynicism.

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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 08:23 AM
Response to Original message
87. Why Overthrowing Gaddafi Is Overrated



Why Overthrowing Gaddafi Is Overrated


By Romesh Ratnesar Tuesday, Apr. 05, 2011


It has become virtually an article of faith among America's chattering class that the Western intervention in Libya cannot be considered a success unless Muammar Gaddafi is removed from power. Reacting to President Obama's speech on Libya last week, CNN's Eliot Spitzer said, "If ... we begin to pull back militarily, that is a very dicey political proposition for the President, to withdraw until we have gotten that moment of clear success, the elimination of Gaddafi." On PBS NewsHour last Friday, the liberal columnist Mark Shields declared, "Any mission that ends or is completed with Gaddafi still in effective control of Libya is a failure." Republican Senator John McCain of Arizona says of Gaddafi that "the longer he stays in power, the more dangerous he becomes." Another Republican Senator, Florida's Marco Rubio, wants any Senate resolution backing the use of force in Libya to stipulate that "removing Muammar Gaddafi from power is in our national interest and ... authorize the President to accomplish that goal."


From the start of the Libyan crisis, Obama has expressed his preference for Gaddafi to relinquish power. But he also insists that "broadening our military mission to include regime change would be a mistake." This perceived contradiction has provided fodder for critics of the President's policy, such as the former Bush Administration officials John Yoo and Robert Delahunty, who labeled it "erratic, improvisational and amateurish" and accused Obama of strengthening "Gaddafi's resolve to hang on" by ruling out the
possibility of an American invasion.


But such arguments are ridiculous. As Obama pointed out in his speech, deposing Gaddafi by force would involve a military commitment that Americans neither want nor can afford. And even if the U.S. were not already struggling to extricate itself from two land wars, a concerted military campaign to remove Gaddafi from power would be shortsighted and strategically foolish. Despite the claims of armchair generals in Washington, there's no evidence that stopping the large-scale slaughter of civilians the stated reason for international intervention in Libya requires Western-sponsored regime change. Nor is it obvious that the Libyan people would be better off in the long run. In fact, history suggests that employing U.S. military power to overthrow Gaddafi would do Libya more harm than good.

...


What that means for the colonel's ultimate fate is for the Libyans to decide. Forcibly removing Gaddafi from power is surely the goal of the rebels who have taken up arms against him. But we don't have to make it ours as well.


Ratnesar, a TIME contributing editor-at-large, is a Bernard L. Schwartz Fellow at the New America Foundation and the author of Tear Down This Wall: A City, a President, and the Speech That Ended the Cold War. His column on global affairs appears every Monday on TIME.com.


...


http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2063190,...





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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
88. NATO: Air strikes on Gaddafi targets have destroyed nearly a third of his military power
NATO says that air strikes on Gaddafi targets have destroyed nearly a third of the military power available to the Libyan leader.

"The assessment is that we have taken out 30 percent of the military capacity of Gaddafi," Brigadier General Mark van Uhm, a senior NATO staff officer, told a news briefing.

3:01pm:
http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-...





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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
89. UNHCR Goodwill Ambassador Anjelina Jolie visits refugees from Libya at Tunisian border UN camp
Angelina Jolie, everyone's favourite actress-cum-UNHCR Goodwill Ambassador, visited refugees from Libya at a UN-run camp on the Tunisia-Libyan border today.

More than 400,000 people have fled Libya in the last month, headed to Tunisia, Egypt, Niger, Algeria, Chad and Sudan. The majority have gone to Tunisia and Egypt, with the former receiving more than half of the outflow.

Transit facilities have been set up by the UN 7km inside Tunisia to provide temporary shelter for refugees. The UN says it has helped 70,000 people reach "home safely", but more continue to arrive, and 11,000 people are still in transit.

Jolie, the Goodwill Ambassador, said:


The outpouring of generosity from the Tunisian people says so much for the future of this country. It is a sign of the openness sweeping across the region ... The international community has done well to reinforce Tunisias remarkable relief effort. But with 2,000 people still crossing each day, we cannot let the funding dry up and need to sustain the momentum."


3:09pm:
http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-...





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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 08:50 AM
Response to Original message
90. Cote d'Ivoire: UN official says 'war' is over; Gbagbo hiding in basement--Al Jazeera nt



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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
91. CNN's senior International Correspondent, Nic Robertson, Tweets from Zawiyah:



Zawiya center: store owners repairing shop fronts, rebel medical clinic welded shut. Nearby, a govt tank is hiding camouflaged under a tree.



14.38:
http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-...





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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
92. #Zawiya mosque now flattened was scene of #skynews Alex Crawford's dramatic report 3 wks ago
Sky News's Jeremy Thompson, who is in Tripoli this week, Tweets that a mosque on Zawiyah that was the subject of a Sky report three weeks ago, is now no longer there.


#Zawiya mosque now flattened was scene of #skynews Alex Crawford's dramatic report 3 wks ago.



15.00
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindi...





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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
93. NATO: Misurata is the new priority for airstrikes
Brigadier General Mark van Uhm, NATO's chief of allied operations, says that coalition airstrikes have continued apace since NATO took command of bombing operations from the US.

Van Uhm says that Misurata is the new priority for NATO. Residents of the western town report that they have come under constant bombardment from pro-Gaddafi forces, and have repeatedly called for NATO to intervene in the city.


Misurata is a number one priority because of the situation on the ground over there. We have confirmation that in Misurata tanks are being dispersed, being hidden, (and) humans being used as shields in order to prevent NATO sorties to identify targets."


Van Uhm also says that pro-Gaddafi forces are changing their tactics to cope with coalition airstrikes.


What we have seen is that pro-Gaddafi forces have changed their tactics over days, what we see is that they are more and more using trucks and light vehicles to move their personnel to the frontline. We are trying to identify where those heavy assets like tanks and armoured vehicles are because we have seen that they have chosen to hide in urban areas, even using human shields in order to not be targeted."


4:21pm:
http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-...





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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #93
94. About time!
All of these actions have seemed to be so last minute.

And I hope they do not forget Brega.

I hope they destroy 2/3rds of G's forces.
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David__77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #93
97. Air strikes won't do much there.
Loyalists have already largely ditched anything that's easily hit, and they don't use large formations. The game is on the ground.
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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
95. AJE: Denmark and Norway have expressed open-ended support against Gaddafi
Edited on Tue Apr-05-11 10:00 AM by Iterate
3:59pm Denmark and Norway have expressed their support for an open-ended military campaign against Gaddafi, while all five Nordic nations have called for him to immediately step down.
The foreign ministers of five Nordic states met in Helsinki today to discuss the crisis in Libya.

Lene Espersen, the Danish foreign minister, said her country would will "stay there for as long as it takes to protect civilians", and that Denmark would be willing to send ships to enforce an arms embargo.

Norway, Denmark and Sweden have all sent warplanes to take part in the international military action in Libya.

Carl Bildt, the Swedish foreign minister, pointed out that the challenge going forward in Libya would be building a democracy, when and if Gaddafi left power.

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-...

For those who might think the German position is simple and monolithic, there is this bit of complication:

'A Serious Mistake of Historic Dimensions'
Libya Crisis Leaves Berlin Isolated
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,7534...

and this:

'Shame for the Failure of Our Government'
Fischer Joins Criticism of German Security Council Abstention
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,7525...

Joschka Fischer is a Green Party icon with a pro-labor and foreign relations brief and is a former Foreign Minister. He opposes the stance advocated by current (for the moment) Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle, a leader of the pro-business Free Democrats (FDP) and freshly resigned deputy chancellor.

FDP Turmoil Spells Trouble for Merkel
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,7551...




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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
96. A Safe Place After Horror in Libya

Source: New York Times




The Female Factor


A Safe Place After Horror in Libya


By SOUAD MEKHENNET


Published: April 5, 2011


RA'S AJDIR, TUNISIA To hear the mothers and daughters fleeing Libya tell it, the woman who burst into a hotel used by journalists in Tripoli saying she had been raped by the forces of Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi has plenty of company.

More than 200,000 people have poured across this border post with Libya since unrest erupted there in February. At first, it was mainly Egyptians and Bangladeshi laborers fleeing war. In the last three weeks, the number of families from sub-Saharan countries the women generally maids or nannies, their husbands in construction or retail has increased markedly, as have the tales of woe.

...


She told of a Tunisian husband who brought his wife to her. The woman broke down, Asma said, sobbing that several men had raped her in front of her husband, as they traveled from Zawiyah to the border. Some wore uniforms, but they were not sure if they were Qaddafis people or rebels, because everyone wears uniforms there now.

Most women crossing the border still fear the long arm of the Libyan intelligence service and seem afraid to talk. 100, 100, meaning all is 100 percent good, most mutter in a scared voice in Arabic.

In some cases when people were willing to talk to a reporter, men in plain clothes went up to them, whispered in their ears, and the women rushed away. The same men also tried to film or photograph journalists as well. Asked why, they answered only: Just a souvenir for us.

...


Libya is not safe for people like us right now; everyone is using us as the scapegoat, Zamzam Yousuf, a 24-year-old from Sudan, said in broken Arabic.


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/06/world/africa/06iht-le...







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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
98. Gaddafi forces likely "have taken all of Brega"; state TV plans to broadcast from there this evening
Anita McNaught, Al Jazeera's correspondent in Tripoli, reports that Libyan state television is planning to broadcast live from Brega at some point this evening.

Hoda Abdel-Hamid, our correspondent who has been reporting from the frontlines, says that it can be said with a fair degree of certainty that Gaddafi's forces have taken all of Brega, given the intensity of their assault this morning towards Ajdabiya.

4:53pm:
http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-...






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Yosarian71 Donating Member (185 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #98
126. I wish Al Jazeera wouldn't do this
The media continues to report statements from Libyan State TV as "news", even though it is purely propaganda. It is unlikely that Libyan State TV has any intention of reporting from Brega, so why report that? The international media is getting used by Gadhafi as an extension of his propaganda machine.
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
99. Tom Rayner, from Sky News, Tweets that he has heard more gunfire in the capital, Tripoli:



Just heard another burst of gunfire in Tripoli - someone with knowledge about these things said it sounded like came from a Dushka cannon


16.30:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindi...





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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
100. Gaddafi planned civilian killings, Hague court says
(Reuters) - The International Criminal Court has evidence Muammar Gaddafi's government planned to put down protests by killing civilians before the uprising in Libya broke out, the ICC's prosecutor said on Tuesday.

Protests against the government that began on February 15 swiftly descended into civil war after Gaddafi's forces opened fire on demonstrators. He then put down uprisings in Libya's west, leaving the east and the city of Misrata in rebel hands.

NATO-led air power is now holding the balance in Libya, preventing Gaddafi's forces from overrunning the seven-week old revolt, but unable for now to hand the rebels outright victory.

The United Nations Security Council, which on March 17 sanctioned air strikes on Libyan government forces to prevent them killing civilians, in February referred Libya to the ICC, the world's first permanent war crimes court.

more, two pages...

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/04/05/uk-libya-idUKL...
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #100
106. Yeah, there are some who blame the rebels
Edited on Tue Apr-05-11 11:26 AM by tabatha
for the carnage.

I wonder if this info came from Moussa Koussa.
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Iterate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #106
130. It's strange the things that really get to you,
and it seems to be different for everyone. This one got to me.

We knew though that he had reacted a bit too quickly, too harshly, and even preemptively, during the first Benghazi protests for it not to be planned. Then there was the brief lull while he mobilized after the bullets and teargas had made the uprising more intense. So it seemed like it might have been planned.

Still though, all understanding of the situation and dynamics aside, it's the sheer depravity I can never seem to get my head around.

Here's a pic from Misrata, from the first day when protesters had gotten the upper hand, and right after the teargas and bullets didn't work:



To answer your wondering, Moreno-Ocampo said "he was keen to speak with Moussa Koussa", but that doesn't mean that information gotten from him hasn't already been passed on in summary form.

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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #130
137. It was actuallly in response to someone who had posted
that the rebels got what they deserved because they had burned buildings and rioted violently, and that Gaddafi was justified in putting them down the way he did. I could link to the post --- but do not want to.

The rebels protested peacefully, initially. They were met with bullets. And now it has been revealed that it was planned.

Btw, I should retract the Moussa Koussa source, because I read in another article, that the Hague has another source for the premeditation.

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #100
121. Thank you --
Haven't read it all -- saved !!

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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
101. Gaddafi forces take Brega


Source: Al Jazeera



Gaddafi forces take Brega


Rebel forces retreat over 20km east towards Ajdabiya, as Gaddafi troops mount fresh offensive to take key oil town.



Last Modified: 05 Apr 2011 15:31


Libyan rebel forces have had to abandon the oil town of Brega and head east towards Ajdabiya in the face of a renewed offensive by troops loyal to Muammar Gaddafi, the Libyan leader.

...


Abibi, the rebel officer, said the two sides battled inside the city until nightfall on Monday and then the rebels moved back to the outskirts. The night passed without much incident, until the coalition airstrike on Tuesday morning.

On Monday, columns of opposition fighters drove up the main coastal highway, regaining ground they had given up the day before, but the effective use of artillery and landmines by Gaddafi's troops kept them at bay.

Tuesday's Gaddafi offensive, however, broke the pattern.


"We haven't seen such a push (by Gaddafi forces) for a few days, over the past few days it actually seemed as if the opposition forces were able to hold some sort of position around the town of Brega. Well, today the situation was completely different. The Gaddafi forces were much more aggresive than they had been in the past days, it seem that maybe they had received new supplies, but certainly they have been pounding much more intensely than over the past few days," Al Jazeera's Abdel-Hamid reported on Tuesday.



http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/04/201145...





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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #101
107. Another expletive.
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
102. CURRENT TIME IN LIBYA = 6 PM TUESDAY, APRIL 5
Libya time = EDT +6 hours, PDT +9 hours, GMT +2 hours





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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
103. Misrata Hell Captured On Video
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
104. Turkish ship evacuating hundreds of wounded from Misrata and Benghazi arrives in Turkey

Source: AP





Turkish ship evacuates wounded from Libya


Tue Apr 5, 8:46 am ET


ANKARA, Turkey A Turkish ship evacuating hundreds of wounded from Libya arrived at Turkey's Aegean
coast on Tuesday where a field hospital scrambled to provide emergency treatment.

The ferry-turned-hospital brought wounded residents from the besieged Libyan city of Misrata and from the rebel stronghold of Benghazi for treatment in hospitals around western Turkey. More than 160 ambulances were on standby.

Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu said Monday that Turkey secured a temporary cease-fire in Misrata through intense "telephone diplomacy" over the weekend that allowed the ship to pick up the injured. Misrata, 125 miles (200 kilometers) southeast of the capital Tripoli, had been largely cut off from the world for weeks.

...


The Turkish government funded the trip, and the Turkish Red Crescent and Islamic aid group IHH provided staff and supplies. Twelve Turkish jets and a frigate provided protection for the ferry.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110405/ap_on_re_eu/eu_turk...







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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #104
105. That is impressive.
I don't know how the Gaddafis think they could ever escape ICC charges.
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
108. "We are committed to fighting this tyrant...we'll drive him out or he'll rule country with no ppl"
Mustafa Gheirani, a spokesman for the Libyan opposition's National Council, has told AFP that while the opposition has suffered "setbacks", it will fight on.


There is no revolution without setbacks. But the people will win. Gaddafi cannot rule Libya with his machine -- his militias and his mercenaries... We are committed to fighting this tyrant, and either we will drive him out or he will rule a country with no people in it."


6:02pm:
http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-...


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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #108
109. That is determination.
Just as when Bushco was bombing the hell out of Iraq, and now Gaddafi bombing the hell out of his own people, I wake up every morning thinking about the innocent bystanders.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #108
122. Libya Hurra -- !! k/r
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
110. Gaddafi troops 'attack oil fields'

Source: Agence France Presse


Gaddafi troops 'attack oil fields'


April 5, 2011 - 3:39AM


AFP

Libya rebels say Muammar Gaddafi's troops have attacked oilfields in the remote south that the insurgents hope to use to fund their month-old revolt against his regime.

"Regime militias have attacked Mislah oilfield and are heading towards Sarir oilfield farther south," Citizens for a Democratic Libya, a rebel-linked advocacy group, said in a statement.

Nafourah oilfield, very near to Mislah, will soon be attacked, too. All these supply oil to Tobruk," it said, urging both NATO and the United Nations to act to prevent the attack.

The allegations could not be independently verified.


http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-world/gaddafi-troo...





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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #110
111. I think NATO is screwing this up, quite frankly.
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al bupp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #111
113. With all due respect, ma'am, that's easy to say...
from the comfort of one's house.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #113
114. Yes, that is true.
But they should have bombed the tanks outside of Misrata before the tanks went into the town. Misrata has been the scene of heartbreaking massacre. Possibly the weather was a factor, but it also seems that Brega could have been handled better.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #110
123. Obviously, there is nothing that Gaddafi will not do --
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #123
124. He is brutal beyong imagining.
Like Hitler.
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
112. Jordanian fighter jets are operating out of European base to protect humanitarian aid to rebels
Jordanian fighter jets are operating out of a European airbase to protect Jordanian transport aircraft that are delivering humanitarian assistance to the opposition in eastern parts of Libya.

Nasser Judeh, the Jordanian foreign minister, said at a news conference today:


The Jordanian fighters arrived at one of the military bases in Europe two days ago to protect Jordanian military aircraft carrying humanitarian aid to the Libyan people and to provide logistical support. Jordan sent a first plane carrying humanitarian aid to Benghazi yesterday (Monday)."


6:32pm
http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-...





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al bupp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
115. Brega Developments
16:47 Al Jazeera Arabic

Correspondent has reported that the defected 36th AsSaiqa battalion is attacking from the south of Brega in the desert. They are currently launching a heavy attack against Gaddafis forces using Grad missiles. They have managed to push west once more towards the area of Arbaeen which has caused Gaddafis forces to retreat.

It is difficult to verify casualties right now, but four shells landed directly in an area where revolutionaries were congregated earlier. Ambulances were seen rushing to that area and they have not come back since


http://www.libyafeb17.com /

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al bupp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
116. Full scale counter attack on Gaddafis forces stationed in the area of Alarbabeen in Brega
18:24 Al Jazeera Arabic The revolutionaries are performing a full scale counter attack on Gaddafis forces stationed in the area of Alarbabeen in Brega.

http://www.libyafeb17.com

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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
117. NATO airstrikes in Misrata area Monday targeted air defense systems, tanks and armored vehicles
More on NATO operations near Misurata: coalition aircraft launched 14 strikes on Monday, including "a number" targetting air defence systems, tanks and armoured vehicles in the area around the besieged Western town, the alliance says.

The alliance also hit a rocket launcher near Brega on Monday, and ammunition storage facilities in other parts of the country.

6:30pm:
http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-...


NATO also said the rocket launcher hit near Brega "was firing at the time."





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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #117
125. Excellent. Thank you NATO.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #117
127. k/r -- and thanks!
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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
128. Press Conference With Head Of Pro-Democracy Forces. Watch Live Feed From Benghazi Here ---->
Edited on Tue Apr-05-11 01:54 PM by Turborama
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
129. Misurata
Edited on Tue Apr-05-11 02:21 PM by tabatha

9:04pm

Unfortunately, and I sorry to say this, NATO has disappointed us. My staff have been in contact with the NATO envoys to direct them to targets that should protect civilians, but until now, NATO has not given us what we need...

Civilians are dying daily in Misurata because of lack of food or milk, even children are dying. Even by bombing. If NATo waits for another week, it will be a crime that NATO will have to carry. What is NATO doing? It is shelling some defined areas only."


8:59pm

Responding to a question on Misurata:

Misurata gentlemen is under the complete annihilation. It is extreme meaning of annihilation. There is no water, no electricty, no food, even children's milk this has been going on for 40 days, and daily bombing of buildings, hospitals and mosques. Heavy artillery is bombing civilian targets and when the Misurata people went to the wells that contain a lot of salt in them for drinking water, the Libyan regime closed down the black water or the sewage, and that's what led to the flooding of sewage into these wells.

"Who is talking about helping Misurata? Whether it is NATO, or even from the devil's alliance, this is Muslim people who are being annihilated, exterminated, and no population has been subjected to this since the early days.

"Who has been subjected to this treatment. These people were drinking water from wells that have been contaminated.

"These weapons are for self-defence, and the international media should defend the people of Misurata. NATO which is sometimes bombing some areas and at the same time leaving Misurata's people to die under these conditions."


http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-...



Josh was right: "The Siege of Misurata".
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al bupp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
131. Major General AbdulFattah Younis press conference points
Edited on Tue Apr-05-11 04:10 PM by al bupp
21:19 Al Jazeera Arabic Major General AbdulFattah Younis, leader of the Libyan Liberation Army has given a press conference, amongst the points he mentioned were:

  • The UN allowed NATO to fly over our heads but it isnt doing its job properly
  • NATO requested the revolutionaries not to use their fighter jets and gunships
  • Troops are fighting in an organised fashion and we are sending more to Brega
  • The oil fields are being protected by soldiers on a continuous basis
  • Damages to oil fields caused by Gaddafis forces can be fixed in a matter of days
More at: http://www.libyafeb17.com
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
132. A few answers from NATO
Edited on Tue Apr-05-11 04:24 PM by tabatha
Answering earlier criticism by insurgents that air power became less effective with the alliance in control, NATO officials said the presence in Libyan skies was undiminished.

But Van Uhm said Gaddafi was using civilians as human shields and hiding his armor in populated areas, curbing NATO's ability to hit targets. "The operational tempo remains, but we have seen a change of tactics (from Gaddafi)," he said. "When human beings are used as shields we don't engage."

"They are using more and more trucks and light vehicles ... and they are keeping more heavy equipment like armored vehicles (hidden)," said Van Uhm, who added that the end result was that Gaddafi was prevented from using heavy armor.

Diplomatic efforts to end the conflict in the oil producing nation have failed to make progress with the government side offering concessions, but insisting Gaddafi stay in power, and rebels adamant that Libya's leader for the past 41 years leave.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/05/us-libya-idUS...
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David__77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #132
134. I do not understand the criticism of NATO by pro-intervention forces.
Since the beginning of the air raids, loyalist forces have adapted to the air campaign. They do not have forest to hide in, but they can disperse into small units, try to appear as if they are rebels, and situate themselves such that an air raid would definitely result in non-combatant deaths or injuries. In this case, should NATO err on the side of killing more non-combatants? Or, should it exercise maximum avoidance of causing non-combatant deaths?
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #134
136. I think that with the terrible destruction that has gone on
at Misrata, people are understandingly deeply upset and horrified.

The rebels said they have called in coordinates for bombing, but these have been ignored.

Like most things, I am sure there is truth on both sides.
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David__77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #136
138. I'm not sure they'd know what to do with this coordinate information.
For one thing, what if the information is false? I am not even saying that rebels would knowingly pass false coordinates, but it is possible that it could happen. There are informants and spies in both camps, and sabotage in that form would pay big dividends. Imagine if a purely civilian target was hit, or if the rebels themselves were hit... It's a confused state, with little prospect of becoming more clarified in the short-term. Now, I did not and do not support the UN resolution or the NATO intervention, but if I did, I would see the whole concept of "air only" as wholly insufficient. There are serious limitations that cannot be overcome with an air-only campaign. As we see, air raids can be circumvented in many ways.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #134
149. I actually do agree with you.
Unfortunately, I do not believe the UN allows you to do regime change, at least, it doesn't appear that it does. From the UN POV it is an internal matter. So it's up to NATO to do what the rebels ask and just expect the UN to STFU about it.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
133. Why Libya is different from Darfur
The pace of the Libya intervention has stunned the people of Darfur and the activists who worked so hard to protect them. Back in 2004, the assumption was that if you raised a loud enough outcry, governments would act to stop mass atrocities. In Libya the outcry had barely begun when governments intervened. The difference has not gone unnoticed by Rebecca Hamilton the author of Fighting for Darfur: Public Action and the Struggle to Stop Genocide.

What Libya has that Darfur never had, still does not have to the present day, and desperately needs, is a unified international commitment to do civilian protection, said Hamilton.

Hamilton says Libya underscores for her how the battle to protect civilians takes place in the realm of global geo-politics. In this case it was the Arab Leagues request to the UN Security Council to enforce a no fly zone and protect civilians that made the difference.

Without that then you would have had China in particular doing what it did in Darfurand which is its typical positionwhich is to threaten to veto anything that looks interventionist, said Hamilton.

But with the Arab League specifically requesting to the UN Security Council that they do this, I think that led to China agreeing to abstain and let such a strong civilian protection resolution go through.


http://www.theworld.org/2011/04/libya-intervention-darf... /
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
135. "Nato blesses us...with a bombardment here & there & is letting the people of Misrata die every day"

Full details of this evening's rebel press conference: Libyan rebels fighting Muammar Gaddafi's forces on Tuesday criticised Nato as too slow to act and said they would ask the U.N. Security Council to suspend its mission unless it "did its job properly". Abdel Fattah Younes, head of the rebel forces, said Nato's inaction was allowing Gaddafi's forces to advance and letting them kill the people of the rebel-held city of Misrata "every day".


The reaction of Nato is very slow. One official calls another and then from the official to the head of Nato and from the head of Nato to the field commander. This takes eight hours. Either Nato does its work properly or we will ask the Security Council to suspend its work.

Misurata is being subjected to a full extermination. Nato blesses us every now and then with a bombardment here and there and is letting the people of Misrata die every day. Nato has disappointed us.



21.19:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindi...





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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
139. Libya: Gaddafi gave us gold watches with his face on them, nurse claims

Source: The Telegraph





Libya: Gaddafi gave us gold watches with his face on them, nurse claims



One of Colonel Muammar Gaddafi's Ukrainian nurses has dismissed rumours he had a nurse as his mistress but has said the man she called "Papa" was very generous, rewarding his staff with gold watches and cash for shopping sprees.



By Andrew Osborn 5:24PM BST 05 Apr 2011


Oksana Balinskaya said she was one of five nurses who looked after the Libyan leader's health, working out of a special hospital near his Tripoli compound that only treated the Gaddafi family.

...


Miss Balinskaya, who worked in Libya for two years until she was evacuated at the end of February, said the eccentric leader liked to give his staff gold watches with a picture of himself dressed in military uniform saluting on the dial.

"Every year on 1 September, the day when Gaddafi took office, he gave everyone who worked in the residency gold watches with his image on. People who had been working there for six to eight years had a whole collection."

...


"We the staff had nothing to complain about," she added. "When we went to New York for example Papa personally gave us cash so that we could shop at the local boutiques."

When he flew anywhere, he was accompanied by two extra planes. One for his luggage and one for his cars, she said. His preference was for an armoured American limousine in cities and a luxury jeep when in the desert.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindi...






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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
140. AP reports rebels in towns SW of Tripoli have pushed Govt forces out of mountain town of Yefren
The Associated Press reports that rebels in towns southwest of Tripoli have banded together to fight pro-Gaddafi forces, pushing them out of the mountain town of Yefren.

Shaban Abusitta, a rebel leader from the town of Nalut, said youths from Nalut and Az Zintan infiltrated Yefren and helped their allies there to fight against government forces, who had surrounded the town. The rebels, armed with Kalashnikov rifles, attacked the armed forces' lines and pushed them away from the town.

Abusitta said at least 25 families from Yefren were now taking shelter in Nalut, and that many others were escaping towards the Tunisian border.

11:11pm:
http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-...





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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
141. NATO: Bombing has destroyed 30% of Gaddafi forces; CNN: That other 70% is LETHAL
Noting NATO's statement that the bombing has destroyed 30% of Gaddafi's mililtary might, CNN's Ben Wedeman said in a live report a little while ago:


"But I can tell you, that other 70% is LETHAL!"






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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
142. CURRENT TIME IN LIBYA = 2 AM WEDNESDAY, APRIL 6
Libya time = EDT +6 hours, PDT +9 hours, GMT +2 hours





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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
143. Libya air ops: "The U.S. retains the possibility of launching a unilateral mission if necessary"

Source: Air Force Times





U.S. ready to resume Libya strikes if needed


By Scott Fontaine - Staff writer
Posted : Tuesday Apr 5, 2011 18:28:44 EDT


NATO has command of the no-fly zone over Libya, but an array of American airframes fly daily and the U.S. retains the possibility of launching a unilateral mission if necessary, the commander of U.S. Africa Command said Tuesday.

Army Gen. Carter Ham told members of the House Armed Services Committee that American troops have moved into a support role but some scenarios might the require U.S. to take the operational lead. The alliance took over enforcement of the U.N.-backed operation March 24.

There is always the potential for some U.S. unilateral military missions, he said. One could think of, for example, personnel recovery of a downed pilot or something like that. If that were to occur, that would fall to U.S. Africa Command to execute those responsibilities.

...


http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2011/04/military-liby... /






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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
144. 2 killed, 26 wounded in shelling of Misrata by Gaddafi forces Tues., a freedom fighter told Reuters



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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
145. Pew poll: 57% say Libya policy lacks clear goal


Source: Los Angeles Times





Pew poll: 57% say Libya policy lacks clear goal


The number of those who say the policy is unclear has grown from 50% last week, despite President Obama's outlining the goals of the military action in a formal address.



By Michael Muskal
April 5, 2011, 10:34 a.m.


Despite President Obamas national address on his Libya policy, an increasing percentage of Americans say the military action lacks a clear goal, according to a Pew poll released Tuesday.

The national survey, by the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press, found that 57% of Americans said the U.S. policy lacked a clear goal, up from 50% who said the same thing a week earlier, before the president formally addressed the nation but while the administration was making its position known.

...


Despite some questions about the goals, the publics reaction to the Libyan strikes has remained constant but mixed over the weeks. About 50% in the latest poll said the West made the right decision in using airstrikes to back Libyan rebels while 37% said it was the wrong decision.

...


Republican opposition to the airstrikes has grown to 41%, up from 29% a week ago. Unsurprisingly, Democratic support for the airstrikes has increased to 59% from 49% in a week.


http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-pew-poll-lib...







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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #145
146. The only goal is to protect citizens.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
147. ....



:cry:
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-05-11 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
148. Day 48 here:
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