Many of us are pissed with Obama. But replace him with a Republican???

[Cyrano]

Like many here on DU, I am totally fed up with Obama. Nonetheless, I have no choice but to vote for him next year, regardless of who the Republicans nominate.

Think about it for a moment. President Newt Gingrich? President Sarah Palin? President Michele Bachmann? President Haley Barbour? President Mike Huckabee? President Rick (man-on-dog) Santorum? President “so-goddamn-stupid-or-insane as to be beyond belief?”

Yeah, there’s Romney and a few other almost sane candidates. But they’re not ideologically “pure” enough to win in the Republican primaries.

Face it. We’re stuck with another four years of Obama who has and will continue to sell us out. Or we’re stuck with some Republican Neanderthal who will sign off on burning witches at the stake.

Yeah, the choice sucks. But American politics has sucked for a few decades now. Like it or not, we are a decaying empire racing headlong into a new dark age.

So while I will go on bitching about Obama, I will grudgingly vote for him again. And if he loses, it will just speed up the end of the American empire.

So how about you? What is your view of the 2012 elections and beyond?

[Davis_X_Machina]

1. Obama will respect DU authoritaaaah -- or feel the DU lash.

And no president can be elected under those circumstances.

[defendandprotect]

5. We have no leverage over Obama and that's what we need -- not a lash--!!!

Corporations, obviously, are the ones who have LEVERAGE over Obama!!

[ZombieHorde]

2. You're right, the Republicans are horrible. Really, really horrible. nt

[notesdev]

3. we do have primaries too

We don't have to have Obama as our party's candidate in 2012.

[pnwmom]

11. We do if we want to beat the Rethug.

Name one election where a Democratic incumbent was beaten by a challenger who went on to win the general.

[notesdev]

18. that's a self-fulfilling prophecy

the point of running a challenger is when you have an incumbent that won't win anyway - which, unless the GOP picks the ugliest and most obnoxious moron in its stable, looks like a pretty sure bet from where I stand.

I'm more interested in salvaging the future of the party than salvaging this corporatist of a President we ended up with, personally. YMMV

[pnwmom]

24. Obama will win if we're not stupid enough to cripple him

through a prolonged attack in the primaries.

[notesdev]

25. His wounds are by his own hand

kissing bankster butt relentlessly, turning his nose in the air while gas and food prices soar, starting a new war for dubious purposes... yeah that's a winning formula all right. I really can't wait to get out and vote for that - are you as excited about it as I am?

[shanti]

115. i'm starting to wonder

if he really doesn't want another term, even if he says he does. actions speak louder than words.

[bigwillq]

112. I don't thing a DEM primary challenger will get 37% of the vote

as Kennedy did in 1980.

There's really no major threat to Obama on the DEM side.
That being said, I feel every incumbent should face a primary challenge. Let the people decide. Let the democratic process play out.

[catenary]

137. Are you saying since it never happened, it's impossible? Lots of people said we'd never

EVER have a black president...

:shrug:

[GameOn]

151. do you even have a clue on the number of groups your would alienate if that happened?NT

[defendandprotect]

4. If we disdain Obama's corporatist polices, we want to move to the LEFT ...

We need to find a way to do that --

One way is to draft Sen. Bernie Sanders who can run on a Dem ticket --

we need two strong anti-war candidates -- maybe Tom Hayden for VP?

We have tons of dems not on the inside the Dem corporate money machine --

they can all run on a Dem ticket --

Let's go!!

When we pretend that our only choices are the pre-ordained candidates

that the corporations have bought and paid for, we're really fooling

ourselves! Plan B! Plan B!

[pnwmom]

12. Sanders doesn't have a chance in hell,

no matter what ticket he runs on. And he's already said he won't run.

[Armstead]

26. HE dosn't, but his policies do

If Obama and the Democratic leadership were to become even half as honest and direct as Sanders is about what is really happening in the economy and society -- and had the guts to push for even a portion of wehat Sanders advocates, they would wipe up the floor with the GOP.

[pnwmom]

51. Do I wish Obama were more of a fighter for progressive causes? Yes, I do.

Do I think any challenger has a better chance of winning in the general? No, I don't.

Obama's got an extremely solid campaign organization and funding behind him. I can't imagine any challenger doing better.

[defendandprotect]

65. Obama only won because he was PRETENDING to be for progressive CHANGE ...

I think everyone pretty much has his number by now!!

[Armstead]

70. Obama could become more like Bernie -- That would be a start

Bernie has the ability to attract voters who in theory would never call themselves liberals or progressives, because know Sanders is fighting for them and the rest of the working class.

There is a lesson there.

[pnwmom]

99. Bernie is successful because Vermont is Vermont.

He wouldn't be successful in the "fly-over" states or in the South. America isn't nearly as progressive as some blue-staters, tucked into their liberal enclaves, think it is.

[Armstead]

116. Vermont is America

I live a stone's throw away from it and I can tell you that it has just as many harasses and basically conservative types as anywhere else.

It is such a cop out to say that so-and-so liberal could never make it in a red state. What about Marci Kaptur, who comes from working class Ohio and is just as progressive as Sanders on economic issues?

Sure a frumpy guy with a Brooklyn accent might not go over well in some other regions, but Bernie is popular with working people as much as he is with the liberals.

[pnwmom]

122. I've lived there and I can tell you that it has fewer conservative types

than anywhere else I've lived.

It's no accident that Vermont was the first state to approve of gay marriage and now appears close to being the first state with single-payer. Good for Vermont -- it's way ahead of the rest of the country.

[Armstead]

136. Well, it has fewer people...

Anyway, I realize it not Mississippi But that is sort of beside the point.

Basically, IMO, the progressive populist message of people like Sanders can resonate in many parts of the country, but it would require more commitment and support from the Democratic leadership.

[howaboutme]

15. Obama has a lock on progressives but does he deserve it?

As long as Obama thinks he has progressives in his palm he'll kow-tow to the Wall street bankers and corporations and 300 million Americans will have less of everything from opportunity to pay.

What the USA needs now is a zealot that believes in USA first policies, and is against giving away the nation on behalf of multi-national institutions and our wars for nothing. We need someone that will restore some balance to society between the "have it all caste" and the rest who "have much less".

We are progressing to a divided and caste society, and instead of recognizing it most Americans are now oblivious because they have been brainwashed by the Hollywood media hype such as Snookie (Jersey Shore) to even recognize it. Many believe the media is about keeping Americans willfully ignorant of how they are being screwed. I'm one of the "many".

[pnwmom]

19. Yes. Because no other progressive

would be as strong in the general as an incumbent with plenty of campaign funds who hasn't had his knees chopped off in a primary struggle.

[defendandprotect]

68. That's the old, "liberals have no where to go" message ... !! Keep moving to the LEFT -- !!

And let's find out if there's somewhere to go -- !!

We need labor and women to come together in a new national party --

that was always Susan B. Anthony's dream --

Meanwhile, Bernie Sanders and Tom Hayden would do it for me --

but think I want to a void anyone hand selected by the corporates already

in the party and pre-owned!!




The Rightwing Koch Bros. Funded the DLC --

http://www.democrats.com/node/7789

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x498414


If you knew about this, why didn't you tell us?

If you didn't know, pass it along -- !

:)

[Skink]

6. My votes not gonna matter anyway.

[Dollface]

9. And that is how we got a Republican House

[MH1]

13. +1, and that is also why Obama can't even get done the things where he agrees with DU.

DU feels sold out, and on some issues they might be, but there's tons of stuff where Obama would support more liberal policies if they could get passed by Congress.

I would say Obama's supporters 'sold him out' by not turning out in 2010 to 'be the change' and make the change happen that they said they wanted when they supported Obama in 2008.

A president can't do dick without at least a half decent Congress. And the Congress we have now is simply vile.

[jaysunb]

50. +1

:thumbsup:

[Skink]

94. Texas and Tom Delay already redisticted 10 years ago.

Democrats are no longer part of Texas politics.

[Lisa D]

7. I will happily vote for Obama in 2012.

Like it or not, the 2010 election proved that the populace is not voting for a move to the left. Obama is inching us there and that's how real change happens. Unfortunately, he's got to fight the hidebound GOP every step of the way.

[Edweird]

8. That's pretty much the opposite of why 2010 happened the way it did.

[Lisa D]

21. If anyone stayed home because of Obama

then they hurt the country more than they hurt Obama. We all see what's happening in Wisconsin and Ohio and Florida. Why not vote for a more progressive Congress? People who could actually make progressive legislation happen? Unless I'm misunderstanding you. Why do you think 2010 happened the way it did?

[EFerrari]

33. Progressive caucus did fine. Blue dogs did not.

[MH1]

49. with a few more blue dogs we'd be seeing a lot less war on women

but to you, apparently, a right wing misogynist is better than a blue dog democrat? So you will throw women under the bus because the democrat isn't good enough?

Thanks a fucking lot.

[EFerrari]

105. LOL! You can't blame me. Blame the centrists who voted for the real Republicans.

:)

[pnwmom]

16. True. The Rethugs still are strong and the only way to move left

is with great, patient effort.

[defendandprotect]

71. Do you recall that the GOP was in collapse in 2008?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

150. The right gets to move at their own speed.

The left gets to move with great, patient effort.

Did I get that right?

[Lisa D]

17. Deleted

[MH1]

23. What you said.

Except that 2010 may have also been due to leftists suppressing the vote because of not getting their way on some areas. Thus helping the republicans move the country to the far right.

[davidthegnome]

32. Uh, how exactly did we "leftists" as you put it..

Suppress the vote? Where do you come up with this stuff? Yeah, we did everything we could to stop people from voting democrat. We leftists did what we could to suppress the vote, to stop people from voting. Uh huh.

What an absolute and complete crock of utter shit.

[MH1]

57. I said "may have" - please read more carefully

and the reason I say 'may have suppressed the vote' - well because I read DU, silly!!! and there's always threats here about not supporting Obama or democrats because they aren't far enough left (or 'progressive' which is the cool word nowadays but really makes no sense because progressive means 'incremental').

so are you saying all those threats were just hot air?

[davidthegnome]

69. Given what you said

Even using "may have" is absurd. You're suggesting that "leftists may have..." suppressed the vote? How exactly do they or did they suppress the vote? I don't think the word suppressed means what you think it means. Not voting - threatening or even promising to refrain from voting for a particular candidate, that's not suppression.

No, those threats and promises are not hot air. That still doesn't explain your use of the word "suppressed". I find the suggestion that "leftists" (which I certainly am) "may have suppressed the vote" is absurd. The word itself has to do with control and force. We neither controlled nor forced a certain outcome. This particular "leftist" voted and did nothing to suppress the vote, nor can I imagine any fellow "leftists" doing so.

[Edweird]

10. We are still getting RW policy, but aren't 'allowed' to oppose because Obama is a 'Dem'.

I think we need to drop back and punt.
We need to work on our party from within
and elininate or neuter the forces behind the
DLC'ers. THEN work on getting back into power.
The way things are now isn't working and they
aren't going to change on their own.

[MH1]

20. You are certainly 'allowed' to oppose! We still have that much freedom in this country.

but if you mean at DU, well you don't own the site. You could set up your own site and oppose Obama all you want. Of course that wouldn't do squat to actually achieve the liberal goals you claim to want. But don't go complaining you aren't 'allowed' to do something that you are perfectly free to do.

[Edweird]

40. I oppose RW policy no matter what consonant is behind the politician's name.

Oh, and thanks for the heads up about not owning
the site there Captain Obvious.

[MH1]

54. Obama is doing the best he can with the shit Congress **WE** gave him

and that includes you.

He isn't doing very well in some areas, I agree, but it didn't help to give the House back to the right wing nutjobs. THAT will bring us more right wing policy than supporting blue dogs ever would have.

[davidthegnome]

72. We?

Speak for yourself, I voted for democrats.

[MH1]

90. I voted for democrats too. But what else did we do?

I worked for a campaign quite a bit. I told everyone I could that it was important to vote. I worked at the polls.

I didn't spend a lot of time at DU. But when I did come here I saw an awful lot of people threatening to not vote for dems, or to not vote at all.

By "we" I mean everyone here who didn't put out a full effort to get democrats elected - and that means a shitload more than just voting.

[davidthegnome]

103. I did what I could

I voted, did what I could to convince others to vote for democrats. The mindset in my neck of the woods though... is conservative and many times ignorant beyond belief. I live in a County that played a large part in electing that bastard LePage. I did what I could to stop it, but it wasn't enough.

Now I'm someone who has a hard time striking up conversations with others, I'm nervous and socially awkward, so for me it's hard as hell. I gave everything I could give. What I long for in return are politicians who will do the same for me - and for those of us who work our butts off for them. I'm angry and frustrated at what I see as constant caving to the republican agenda and I'm getting more so all the time. Can you honestly say that our democratic representatives are giving us as much as we give them? I don't think they are - I think they're allowing corporations to get away with scamming the American people on a massive scale. I think they're way too invested in corporate funding.

These corporations that aren't paying taxes - the numerous corporate scum bags in Obama's administration, these things really get me worked up. As long as we give in to corporate demands and control, we move closer to fascism and further away from democracy. That is the main reason why I'm upset with Obama and our democratic representatives. Not enough of them are speaking out - and that would be enough to help restore some of my faith. Only a very few are telling us the truth - and they are insulted, belittled, treated as radicals and crack pots. It's beyond bizarre, it's... it's sickening.

[iwishiwas]

113. He blew so called health care reform from day ONE

[defendandprotect]

73. +1000% ---

The Rightwing Koch Bros. Funded the DLC --

http://www.democrats.com/node/7789

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x498414


If you knew about this, why didn't you tell us?

If you didn't know, pass it along -- !

:)

[pnwmom]

22. That was Nader's dumb idea. Let the Rethugs take over and

then work on getting back into power.

And that gave us 8 years of W.

[Edweird]

34. What does Nader have to do with the Dem party?

[pnwmom]

48. He claims to be a progressive, yet he ran against Al Gore

in 2000 and campaigned the hardest in the swing states -- the states that were most important for Al Gore to win. In the end, the election was decided by Florida's electoral votes, where Nader accumulated 95,000 votes -- and Bush carried the state by only 500.

Nader was fine with that because he was convinced that the Democrats needed to be kicked out, so the country could go downhill enough under the Rethugs so that a stronger, more Democratic party could emerge from the ashes. What a crock.

[MH1]

52. in the beginning he claimed he was just looking for another view to be heard

but if that were true, he would have pulled out and thrown his support behind Gore.

Nader is either a narcissistic fool or he really doesn't give a shit about improving this country or the environment. As a greenie I was for him in the beginning, but when he failed to do the right thing at the end I saw what he was really about.

[pnwmom]

53. The other clue we had

was when it turned out he was taking money from Republicans to run. His narcissism has no bounds.

[defendandprotect]

74. Biggest clue we have: KOCH BROS FUNDED DLC -- !! Think that's a bigger clue -- !!

[defendandprotect]

75. Al Gore was DLC -- Funded by Koch Bros. -- and Gore had oil industry

support all of his career --

not to mention the Trojan Horse of Libermann!!

One case of food poisoning and Liebermann would have been president!!

[pnwmom]

97. Lieberman would have been better than Bush. n/t

[defendandprotect]

118. It would have been a fascist, either way -- !!

[The Philosopher]

14. One could replace President Obama with

President Obama. We're not simply left with no alternative except a Republican candidate. We don't vote for Republicans. We vote for Democrats.

[Armstead]

27. Great Point......I think

If you are saying Obama does not have to govern and campaign as a Corporate Centrist, I heartily concur.

[defendandprotect]

76. OP is a based on false choice ... you don't reject Obama's rw policies and then go to the right!!!

Everyone is looking to go to the LEFT -- this is simply more

scare tactics --

Let's try to do something better -- like drafting Sen. Bernie Sanders to

run on the Dem ticket --



The Rightwing Koch Bros. Funded the DLC --

http://www.democrats.com/node/7789

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x498414


If you knew about this, why didn't you tell us?

If you didn't know, pass it along -- !

:)

[sendero]

100. I vote for real Democrats..

.. Obama is the prototypical DINO. And despite what is apologists here try to claim over and over, he DID NOT RUN AS ONE.

[defendandprotect]

119. Sadly, agree -- and ...

The Rightwing Koch Bros. Funded the DLC -

http://www.democrats.com/node/7789

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x498414

If you knew this, why didn't you tell us?

If you didn't know, pass it along -- !!

:)

[Beacool]

28. I think that Obama will probably win reelection.

Having said that, I'm waiting to see which third party candidates surface. I'm an Independent since 2008 and I'm not beholden to either party.

:-)

[Scuba]

29. Are those the only two options? What's wrong with a primary challenge from the left?

[JoePhilly]

37. Where is the mythical candidate you plan to run?

[Scuba]

62. This guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFabLp-Jcbg

[defendandprotect]

78. Interesting that Gore was DLC ... Hillary was DLC ... Obama "New Dem" ... cards were stacked?

The Rightwing Koch Bros. Funded the DLC --

http://www.democrats.com/node/7789

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x498414


If you knew about this, why didn't you tell us?

If you didn't know, pass it along -- !

:)

[JoePhilly]

107. Better tell him to get his exploratory committee into high gear then.

[defendandprotect]

120. You know, JFK announced something like only 6 months before the 1960 election ....?

And, btw, the Democratic National Platform he ran on called for

Nationalizing the oil industry!!

Imagine had that happened how much war and expense we would have saved ourselves --

not to mention the planet!!




The Rightwing Koch Bros. Funded the DLC -

http://www.democrats.com/node/7789

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x498414

If you knew this, why didn't you tell us?

If you didn't know, pass it along -- !!

:)

[SidDithers]

125. 2012 is not 1960...nt

Sid

[JoePhilly]

138. Didn't Dan Quayle compare himself to JFK once ... ONCE. lol.

[defendandprotect]

140. Btw ... did you happen ....

to go by new program -- The Kennedys?

Watched a few minutes of it --

have to find out what the networks is -- Fox?

:evilgrin:

[Solomon]

144. Gee, I wonder what happened to Kennedy?

[JoseGaspar]

30. What if the Democrats nominate Newt Gingrich and the Republicans...

...nominate Sarah Palin? Surely Gingrich is better than Palin. At least he is completely a lying opportunist sack-of-shit while Palin may actually believe a few insane things for real.

But, what if the Democrats nominate Palin and the Republicans nominate Santorum? Isn't a mostly out-for-herself Palin better than a crazy as shit Santorum?

But what if the Republicans nominate David Duke and the Democrats nominate Santorum? Duke is a fucking Klanner, by God. Don't you have to take your chances on crazy?

But what if the Democrats nominate David Duke and the Republicans nominate Jeffrey Dahmer... or Hermann Goering? A serial killer... or a REAL Nazi?

I think your perspective on this may have some flaws...

But, but... that is just satire. We all know the Democrats would never nominate any of THOSE people.

We also know that the Republicans would NEVER nominate anybody like that either. Just look back four or eight or twelve years.

I think your perspective on this may have even more flaws in rapidly changing times...

The Democrats WOULD NEVER nominate Palin.

Well, shit... that's good to know.

[defendandprotect]

79. What about the GOP voting computers -- only we care? Democratic Party doesn't care?

Hartmann says that a Dem told him that the Dem Party has made it

a taboo subject -- they fear if Democratic voters got the idea that

elections weren't honest they'd no longer come out to vote!!

What's the vote now -- 39% -- think anyone thinks our elections have

been fixed over the last 40+ years?


:rofl: if not so sad!!

[TBF]

141. The working class already know this -

I remember my grandfather telling me in the 70's "it doesn't make any difference" who wins elections - and he meant for those of us in the working class. Voting only matters if you're worried about cultural issues - gay rights, prayer in school - those sorts of thing (which are important, but they aren't economics).

[lumberjack_jeff]

31. My car has an oil leak.

It's annoying, and has left a big oil stain in my driveway. I know I should fix it, but I can't bring myself to do it. It also has big chunks of missing paint, but the body is otherwise straight.

I baby the car, and drive it sensibly. I change the oil regularly and do all the appropriate maintenance.

My son is now driving the car. He drives it hard, and has been hit twice.

When he blows up the engine, I'll fix the oil leak. When the body damage is sufficient, I'll repaint it.

In fact, that's the only way the leak will get fixed or it will get painted.

The country is apparently not fucked up enough yet to justify putting it on the lift. So long as Obama is driving, the problems get the duct-tape/jb-weld treatment.

[bobbolink]

35. It worked pretty well in Wisconsin. It is the only way those people actually woke up, isn't it?

[davidthegnome]

36. At the moment, he has my vote

If he keeps up this corporate ass kissing though, he may very well lose it. He has turned his back on his obligations to the people he claims to represent - if he continues to do so then I have no reason to vote for someone who does not represent me or my interests or those of my fellow democrats.

I think a lot of people have been duped into thinking this is the best we can do. I disagree. We can do far better, a lot of us are just afraid to try.

[Shagbark Hickory]

38. I'm not in a swing state so my vote doesn't matter. I plan to not vote.

[defendandprotect]

80. Wouldn't a "write in" vote be better than no vote -- you know, GOP always

claims that those who don't vote don't bother because they like things

the way they are!!


:rofl:

[Shagbark Hickory]

102. Neither will make a difference. I don't think they even look at the write in votes.

[defendandprotect]

121. It's really not about "them" -- it's about the idea that not voting gives you power ...

whereas we know that throughout history, elites have worked ONLY to

prevent people from voting!!

And still do!!

[PufPuf23]

39. POTUS Obama will likely be our best and only choice in 2012.

POTUS Obama is an attractive personality as a face of the Nation and I know will vote for him in 2012 given no other choice.

On the other hand, I find Obama severely lacking in integrity.

Just about all his appointments except for USSC are attrocious (and we may be surprised).

POTUS Obama is not moving the country liberal nor left at all as he is a staunch neo-liberal / Third Way "New" Democrat.

Our best scenario may be that Obama's policy failures and disgust shown by true liberals and FDR Democrats result in Obama pulling an LBJ.

The best to do this is may well be to show such disgust within the party for Obama to take a golden parachute.

We need to get the neo-liberals out of the Democratic Party.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

41. I'll vote for the most progressive, anti-war, candidate on the balllot ..or write one in.

“Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." John Quincy Adams"

I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all." Thomas Jefferson to Francis Hopkinson, 1789.

"Were parties here divided merely by a greediness for office,...to take a part with either would be unworthy of a reasonable or moral man." Thomas Jefferson to William Branch Giles, 1795.

[defendandprotect]

81. My conscience isn't going to allow me to vote for war AFTER 10 years -- !!

[hulka38]

42. I wonder how many of these OPs

we will have to endure before election day 2012?

The Template:
1. Declare how mad at Obama you are thereby garnering progressive sympathy.
2. Scare the reader with the usual GOP goblins and ghouls.
3. State the choice the voter has and declare that there is no choice.
4. The guilt trip at the end is the key - the heavier the better.
5. Then ask earnestly, so how are you gonna vote?

These posts are emotionally manipulative and should be completely ignored.

[Solomon]

145. +1,000

I'm tired of them too and these posts have the feeling of sucking up to progressives and trying to eat your cake and have it at the same time.

If you don't want to vote for Obama, then don't vote for Obama, it's as simple as that. But don't come crying acting like you're forced to do something you don't want to do.

[Xicano]

43. If Obama doesn't get elected its nobody else's fault but Obama's

I for one will not vote for right wing corporate policies. I wish I could vote for him so we'll have a Democratic President, but, his actions preclude me from voting for him. I refuse to vote against my liberal principles. So my not voting for him is his fault, not mine.

[Scottybeamer70]

44. I guess I'm missing something

because I've read these remarks on DU since joining......"we have no other choice"............well, if that is
the case, then why is it continually and endlessly discussed? If there's no choice........that pretty well
ends it, doesn't it? All the bitching and griping, and then saying, "I'll vote for him", makes absolutely no
sense. or........maybe I'm missing something.

[Vinca]

45. Obviously none of us want a Republican elected, so . . .

we'll be voting against them rather than for the Dem. Not quite the joy of the previous presidential election.

[SidDithers]

89. I disagree. I believe there are DU'ers who want a Republican elected...

the belief, I think, is that once the country gets completely fucked up by the Republicans, voters will clamor for a real liberal / socialist / Marxist alternative.

Sid

[TBF]

142. I am leftist (socialist I guess, not sure it matters) -

and I don't want to see a republican elected. Of course I can't get up much enthusiasm for a democrat either. I don't see either party doing anything for working class folks.

[Tarheel_Dem]

46. What about the other 84% - 87% of "liberals" who think he's doing just fine?

:shrug:

Let's face it, folks like you are loud on the internet, but have little significance elsewhere. Pres. Obama will be the party's nominee, no matter how loud the purists and Ron Paul interlopers try to stir shit in the leftosphere.

The Democratic Party is made up of many factions, and the folks who never got over the primaries are still stirring the same old mess. It must really piss them off when new polling shows the president at 50%+ approval, and near 90% of Dems. For all their hard work, the president still hovers at or above 50%, that in itself, is amazing.

[Xicano]

58. "folks like you are loud on the internet, but have little significance elsewhere."

I think you just pointed out the success of our CORPORATE media. People on the net tend to be more informed than those who only pay attention to the corporate news media. Therefore, your 84% - 87% are unknowingly voting misinformed.

n/t

[Egnever]

129. Yea couldnt be they dissagree with your views

Damn media!

[Tarheel_Dem]

133. Yup. If only we all knew, what you know.

:rofl:




:eyes:

[Nye Bevan]

47. It's happened before. That's what the Naderites did to us in 2000.

I would like to think that everyone has learned a lesson from that.

[fascisthunter]

56. everyone except for those perpetuating that lie

[defendandprotect]

82. What we learned is some people will believe anything . . . . !!

Have you noticed how little the Democratic Party is concerened about the

GOP voting computers?

Did you notice that the Dem Party gave almost no protest to the 2000 steal by

the GOP? The fascist rally to stop the counting of 180,000 ballots never before

counted? Have they ever mentioned it?

That was organized by the new SC Chief Justice John Roberts!

Ever heard any criticism by the Dem Party of the Gang of 5 on the Supreme Court for

that decision?

Meanwhile, 300,000 "Democrats" in Florida voted for BUSH who allegedly won Florida by 537 votes!!

But it was Nadere who stole those 537 votes from Gore -- !!!


Gore won in 2000, including in Florida no matter how you counted the votes -- according to

the review of the votes by the journalists consortium.





The Rightwing Koch Bros. Funded the DLC --

http://www.democrats.com/node/7789

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x498414


If you knew about this, why didn't you tell us?

If you didn't know, pass it along -- !

:)

[Nye Bevan]

93. We all know that Gore won in 2000.

We also all know that he would have taken office if not for the Nader voters.

[defendandprotect]

117. Explain how you know ...

those 537 votes were "stolen" by Nader -- *

and not by the 300,000 "Democrats" in Florida who voted for Bush?

Gore might have taken office had he stood up and protested the steal --

Evidently word came from the elites to him that they didn't want any fuss/controversy.

In fact, Gore called off Jesse Jackson from Miami-Dade Country where the protests were

beginning against the 3,000+ "Gore" votes that went to Buchanan on the butterfly ballots!!



* at one point before the SC stopped the counting, Bush's alleged win was down to 34 votes!!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

84. You'd think the candidates would have learned a lesson from that.

If you want votes you have to convince the voters to vote for you not merely threaten them with "the other guy is worse".

[fascisthunter]

55. only one way those in power of the dem party will get it

sorry bud.... I will never vote for Obama again. We've been holding our noses a little too long, and look where it's gotten us.

[SidDithers]

63. Please, post "I will never vote for Obama again" over and over...

after he's the official nominee.

Sid

[defendandprotect]

83. Pelosi morning after '06: "Dem were elected to end the war!" -- see video!!

[Lucian]

59. How would a Republican and Obama be any different?

The only difference there could be is to put a teabagger in there, but that difference would be MUCH worse.

We need a Democrat in office, not a DINO.

[SidDithers]

66. Elena Kagen and Sonia Sotomayor disagree with you...nt

Sid

[defendandprotect]

85. Great question -- !! We need to move to the left not waste our time with false choices -- !!

The Rightwing Koch Bros. Funded the DLC --

http://www.democrats.com/node/7789

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x498414


If you knew about this, why didn't you tell us?

If you didn't know, pass it along -- !

:)

[Proud Liberal Dem]

60. If you think he's sold us out

and essentially believe that he is a DINO, then why should it matter whether or not he's replaced with a "real" Republican? :shrug:

I personally don't believe that he's been a big "sellout" so much as he was dealt a particularly bad hand in terms of whom he had to work with in Congress. Yet, in spite of having to deal with Republicans and conservative Democrats during his first two years, he still did get some good things accomplished IMHO. If we want him to be able to do even bigger and better things, it's really up to us to get him a better Congress that won't, for instance, tie his hands on things like Gitmo and will push for more progressive laws. :shrug: IMHO we need to focus a lot of energy on NOT getting a Republican POTUS and putting more Dems back in Congress (and several state legislatures) in 2013 if we want things to get better.

[WillyT]

61. I Just Wish I Could Vote For A Democrat

:shrug:

Pivot Barack, Pivot...

[SidDithers]

64. I believe there is a sizeable portion of DU'ers who won't vote for Obama in 2012...

there's even an alleged liberal here that stated they wish 2008 had gone to McCain.

Sid

[TreasonousBastard]

67. I'm not fed up with Obama. For a while there...

he was doing OK working with Pelosi and Reid passing some decent stuff until the House was lost. Not perfect, but nothing ever is.

The gasbag wing of the Left will never accept any responsibility for losing the House, of course. With insistence on purity no less than the teabaggers but with so much less power they threatened to stay home in droves because everything they wanted was not done the way they wanted it. But, that had nothing to do with losing the house, they say. And things like failing to support the weak healthcare bill because it wasn't "perfect" never help.

Now, Obama's a "corporatist" and a warmonger because as President cleaning up the mess of the prior eight years his job is a little more than simply placating the Left. Oh, bullshit.

He's got enough trouble with the assholes on the other side throwing banana peels under his feet without a bunch of whiny losers on the internet tearing him down in the name of liberalism, progressivism, or whatever the purity of the day is.

(Those fucking teabaggers have it easy-- they just demand less taxes and less spending and don't care what or how.)

[Armstead]

77. We gasbags didn't lose in 2010

If you were paying any attention you might have noticed that progressive Dems were much more successful atvholding ontontheir seats than were the conservadems.

The major factor in the losses were not due to losing the committed progressive gas bags. It was an unwillingness by many Dem candidates to actually take on the lies and distortions and awful policies of the GOP.

That led to not effectively selling to the middle swing voters, or the enthusiastic newcomers that had voted for Obama in 08.

[TreasonousBastard]

95. Mostly a load of crap, but some small truth...

in that we didn't work either hard or smart.

The Congressional campaign I worked on had a very popular long-term moderately liberal Dem who was under attack by a teabagger who just moved here from New Jersey, where he was shown the door in his one attempt at running for office.

Now, NOBODY really gives a shit about national politics around here except the two or three cranks who write to the local paper every week. Nobody talks about war, abortion, the deficit, or Obamacare. We care about dredging the inlet, beach erosion, the county water pipe, uncontrolled growth, noisy helicopters heading to Montauk airport, Plum Island's future, the school budget, and other such matters-- and our current Congressman is up on all that really important stuff. He's a rarity-- a very popular Dem in a Republican district simply because he's effective.

But, he had the closest race of his career simply because the teabaggers were out in force and motivated. They were all over the place, and had "precampaign" signs and literature before we started campaigning, and even before they knew who their candidate was to be. "Dump Bishop and Pelosi! Get their hands out of your wallet!" signs were all over the place by January, with some even before Christmas, and every strip mall and post office had regular visits from the tablers and flier mongers. We were blindsided, and really didn't have the organization to counter it. We won, but by a few hundred votes, not the thousands we were used to.

Tim was targeted because we're a largely Republican district and the teabaggers smelled blood so were working overtime here, unlike us who expected another rout.

Sooo... although I make no pretense to know the details of every race, I would expect "conservadems" to be from largely conservative districts where no liberal would ever have a chance. Seems a lot of them were brought in on Obama's coattails and were summarily thrown out when the rednecks came to their senses and went back to their knuckledragging ways.

[sendero]

101. He did NOTHING OF IMPORT..

.. with power while he had it. He did NOT EARN the right to keep it.

[TreasonousBastard]

104. Nothing important to you, maybe, but...

who the fuck are you?

[sendero]

110. I could ask you..

.. the same question. Obama failed to deliver on 90% of his promises. I won't vote for him again.

[Tarheel_Dem]

134. 90%? In two years? Where'd you pull that number from?

Let me guess. :rofl:

[Iggo]

86. Never.

[SidDithers]

87. Never what? Never replace him with a Republican? Or never vote for him?..nt

Sid

[Iggo]

88. Never replace him with a Republican.

Sometimes my friends piss me off, but I'll never replace them with my enemies

[SidDithers]

91. That's what I was hoping you meant...

:hi:

Sid

[NorthCarolina]

92. P R I M A R I E S ! ! !

n/t

[opihimoimoi]

96. Their History, long term, 50 years...stongely indicates Fascism and Ineptness

Good Gov;t ESCAPES THEM

[sendero]

98. don't care.

.... if this is all we get for electing a Dem everything, then I really don't care any more. REALLY.

Let a Republican finish the job of decimating the lower and middle classes and believe me things will change then.

They are already starting to change NO THANKS WHATSOFUCKINGEVER to Obama (Wisconsin is just the beginning).

[Dems to Win]

106. I'm now a single-issue anti-nuke voter, so I'll probably be voting Green.

Unless Obama comes to his senses in the next 18 months.

[Toucano]

126. I'm heading there, too.

But I think there must be a way to strengthen the Democratic Progressives. I'd have a hard time saying I voted for Cynthia McKinney, no matter how much I personally like her.

What the Tea Party is to the Republican party, the Progressives need to be to the Democratic party...

I think such a movement could actually attract the holy grail: Independents.

[EFerrari]

108. I don't want to replace Obama with a Republican.

I'd like to replace him with a Democrat.

[sendero]

111. Oh but you can't have that.

... you can have:

1) A Republican

2) Someone who claims to be a Democrat but sides with business interests EVERY SINGLE FUCKING TIME

If those are the choices, and I'm pretty sure they will be, I'm not voting.

[EFerrari]

139. The peace I'm going to make with this is to vote the ticket

but to save my heart for our local people who need and appreciate the effort. I don't have to like the national ticket or agree with it to live with it for now.

[Solomon]

148. Oh my. Thank you soooo much for your "sacrifice".

[Toucano]

127. +1000

The truth is often so simple.

[Fire Walk With Me]

109. An overview of the Trend in the middle east will provide perspective on the Change we are facing.

We can get it together, and together, demand something better and sustainable. And build it ourselves.

If we want it. And will work for it.

[Union Scribe]

114. If he loses, it'll be his own damn fault.

But, generally, I agree with what you're saying.

[Egnever]

131. Wont it be fun then to pat ourselves on the back and say we told you so!

Man that will be great! We can all laugh and have a beer as our country is further dumbed down and point at Obama and assure each other what a failure he was.

I cant wait!

[Union Scribe]

135. Piss and moan all you want, but his re-election is in his hands.

Welcome to adulthood, where there isn't joy in being right when the people in power are wrong. If you think that's what it's all about, I'd suggest that you take that fucking Hope (tm) poster down and look out the window behind it. Lot of shit going on out there, and it isn't all about Team Obama.

[oldlib]

123. I think that the GOP

can beat Obama if they have the proper candidate. The GOP group presently available won't do. The candidate that has a shot at beating Obama was on the Rachel Maddow show last night. He is Michael Steele, the former chairman of the RNC. The GOP needs a reasonable black man to attract the black vote and keep the die-hards happy.

[Solomon]

149. Oh my god. You didn't say that.

Did you say that? What a racist thing to say.

I'll say it again because I'm African-American. We been voting for white folks for ages. Okay? Every election for us is a choice between the lesser of two evils. This is nothing new. We usually vote democratic 90% no matter what color the candidate. The fact that Obama got 90% of the black vote is NOT because he is black, but because he is a democrat.

We don't vote based upon skin color. Michael Steele is an idiot. Black folks know that. To imply that we would vote for him despite his policies because he is black is just a retched thing to say. AND IT'S COMPLETELY WRONG. It's racist claptrap. Take it somewhere else.

[NorthCarolina]

124. Replace him with a Republican? No. Replace him with a Liberal/Progressive?

I could be convinced; easily.

[Egnever]

132. .

[Terra Alta]

128. I agree with you 100%

I'm not happy with Obama right now, but what other choice is there? Bachmann, Palin, Barbour, or any of the other Repukes would be 100 times worse. I'll continue to criticize Obama, but will hold my nose and vote for him anyway.

[BillyJack]

130. Replace him with Tansy Gold!!! n/t

Tansy is 'everyone' and 'no one' at the same time. Tansy is beholden to no one EVER.....unlike our modern day puke-ticians ~ sell-outs, all!

Search out her Tansy Gold for President thread :-)

[LWolf]

143. My view?

I'll vote for the furthest left, non-neoliberal candidate on my ballot. Or I'll write one in, if none exists.

My vote is earned, not owed.

[deutsey]

146. I was deeply dissappointed with Clinton in '94, but held my nose and voted for him

Same in 2000 for Gore.

I'll do the same in 2012 for Obama.

:evilfrown:

I really wish voting didn't always come with such a corporatist stink but them's the times, I guess. I've tried to be a part of infusing the process with a stronger grassroots movement not beholden to the Party power structure, one that constantly puts pressure on elected officials to represent OUR interests over corporate interests, but that hasn't taken root yet.

But if the GOP gets in...well, I think our situation pretty much sucks now, but it would be 1000 times worse with the Sith Lords gaining total control again.

[Avant Guardian]

147. Obama replaced his campaign self with his republican self

...thus no more substitutions necessary.