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For former US Military people - What is your opinion of Bradley Manning's actions

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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-10 11:59 AM
Original message
Poll question: For former US Military people - What is your opinion of Bradley Manning's actions
Edited on Mon Dec-27-10 12:09 PM by stevenleser
I'm creating two polls, one for former US military and one for non-former military to gauge the opinion of Bradley Manning's actions and see how it is affected by prior service (or no military experience).

Please post a response with your military experience and the last year you served and how you voted.

Sorry, polls are turned off at Level 3.

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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-10 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
1. I'm former USAF. Last year on active duty was 1992.
And I voted for the most severe punishment
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-10 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
2. Other
I suspect the case is not so strong, why the mistreatment. Even if he did, the army is trying to send a message even if in the end he walks due to the violation after violation with the confinement. Hubby and I were talking about it.
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-10 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Are you former military?
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-10 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Somewhere else
And hubby is a retired Chief.
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-10 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #2
19. Why would you suspect the case isn't strong? Have you worked on SIPRNET or JWICS.
You can't do anything without it being logged. Every single keystroke, button click, command, file access, login, logoff, failed password, etc. Everything is logged and logged offsite (in Nebraska).

They will have a event by event log of everything that happened from the moment he sat down at his workstation to the moment he logged off.
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Vickers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-10 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
5. USAF, 1982-1990, 1st choice. n/t
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-10 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
6. :kick:
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OutNow Donating Member (538 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-10 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
7. USAF
last year - 1971

I voted for 4-6 years.

I'm a peacenik and even surprised myself by voting for any jail time. The UCMJ must be embedded somewhere deep in my brain.

Would I do the same thing if I was in Manning's situation? Well, I was a whistle blower myself in a job I had and was fired for it. I felt I was justified in my actions but also knew I would pay a price. Ditto for Manning.
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-10 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. I also think, as I wrote in the "Non-military" version of this poll
that former military like us are aware of various other options Manning had available to him and that are the subject of regular briefings. For instance, the unit, command, and branch inspector general, which is a common way, Fraud, Waste, Abuse and other improper activities get brought to the attention of the right folks. Manning did NOT have to go about this the way that he did, and the massive release of items completely unrelated to whistleblowing makes him completely unsympathetic to me.
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Llewlladdwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-10 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
9. USAF 1987 - 1998
And I'd gladly execute him.
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-10 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
10. I'm guessing most of the 'hero' and non jail time votes here are non-prior service voting in the
wrong poll, particularly since none of them have identified themselves.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-10 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
11. USMC '61 - '65. Bradley Manning is a hero for truly serving his country and the world.
Which is a helluva lot more than can be said for the "embarrassed" bosses and the Pentagon.
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kctim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-10 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
12. First choice
USAF 87-97
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sarge43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-10 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
13. AF, 62-83, second option, if he's guilty.
Last time I heard, the accused is innocent until proven guilty. We haven't heard his defense yet, why he did it.

The government, military and civilian, is too comfortable with zero accountability.

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Kaleva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-10 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
14. Picked 1st option. USN. Discharged in 1990.
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Doc_Technical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-10 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
15. USAF 1970-1974
The man is a hero.
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-10 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
16. If found guilty by his peer (fellow servicemen) and he likely will be I say option 1.
Edited on Mon Dec-27-10 02:40 PM by Statistical
Had he only release the helicopter footage and/or casualty reports from Afghanistan my opinion might be otherwise (maybe option 2).

If I was on the Jury and the evidence supports the charges (he removed classified material from classified network and knowingly released it to an unauthorized party) I would vote to convict.

It is very unlikely a military jury will be nullified (believe person is guilty but find them innocent because the law is unjust).

US Army & Virginia National Guard 1998 - 2009
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Zanzobar Donating Member (276 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-10 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
17. USN, '81 - '85, Option 1
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IBEWVET Donating Member (42 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-10 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
18. Last served 1971, choice one n/t
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denbot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-10 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
20. USN 77-81 and I voted for option 2
Part of my duties was to handle tactical publications and crypto keys. He violated secrecy regulations and should be punished. His intent was to bring to light government actions to the people of the U.S., and not compromise tactical missions so I do not think he should do a lot of time.
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Kaleva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-10 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
21. Interesting difference between this poll and the one asking those who haven't served.
All in all, the combined results show about a 50/50 split in DU.
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-28-10 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #21
30. I think the difference is those who understand the military and the options open to someone in the
military, and those who do not. I have someone vehemently arguing with me in the non-military thread who absolutely has no idea what they are talking about. There were plenty of options open to Manning that he chose not to exercise. We who are prior service know that.
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mrmpa Donating Member (707 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-10 10:24 PM
Response to Original message
22. prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law
no military service here. daughter of a 15 year veteran of the USMC.
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sylvi Donating Member (169 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-10 10:49 PM
Response to Original message
23. USN '75 - '80
Naval Warfare Operations Specialist
Clearance - Secret

IMHO Bradley Manning is a fucking punk who released all that data impulsively in a fit of temper. Nothing more. Nothing less. If it had been a release of a few discrete pieces of information related to what he, in good faith, believed to be criminal acts (after pursuing appropriate channels first), that may have been understandable. But dumping a quarter million classified documents en masse that he couldn't possibly have vetted himself? That was beyond reckless and irresponsible.

I also believe that if Assange was involved in any way before the fact, young Mssr. Bradley is going to roll over on him like a dog in an attempt to save his own ass, no torture involved. That's what punks do.
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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-10 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. I was never in the military
Edited on Mon Dec-27-10 10:51 PM by tammywammy
But I agree with your post 100%.

edited to add: I work with a ton of retired military, have veterans in my family and currently hold a security clearance.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-10 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. I hope you are never on a jury. First, no one knows what he
leaked. Where did you get that he 'did it in a fit of temper, eg'? And who said he leaked hundreds of thousands of documents? He is said to have leaked the helicopter video. What else is he supposed to have leaked?

Also, he DID go through channels and was ignored, and he did see crimes being committed. Should the Nazi troops who followed orders and did not try to stop crimes have been absolved after all? And if a soldier's superior officers refuse to listen to him/her, what should that person do to stop crimes from being committed?

And so what if Assange communicated with him? Which, btw, appears to be another fantasy since Assange never heard of him until he was arrested. But, a news editor and publisher absolutely can communicate with a source. If you're hoping that a confession extracted by torture will cause Manning to say he met with or spoke to Assange, that would mean nothing. As a journalist, he has every right to meet with a source. See Watergate, eg.

No wonder the Founding Fathers insisted on civilian leadership for the military. If this is the way the military reacts to their own soldiers when they are simply accused of doing something wrong, it's no wonder that there are so many crimes being committed by military personel against Iraqis and Afghans.

I did not vote in the poll since I am not part of the military, although I have family members who are. None of them I am happy to say, would jump to conclusions like this based on zero facts other than allegations and the word of someone who has some serious issues himself.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-10 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
25. Twenty years ago, I would have said to throw the book at him.
Edited on Mon Dec-27-10 11:07 PM by TexasObserver
But now we live in a very different world. They make everything about a war classified so they can control access to information. They make the leaker a criminal and the journalist he tells a criminal.

Only leakers who expose wrongdoing hidden under the guise of National Security can get truth to the public.
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NavyDem Donating Member (284 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-27-10 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
26. USN 1990-2010 Retired.
Whistleblower argument goes out the window once classified materials are given to foreign nationals that do not uncover war crimes, or criminal actions. If found guilty, maxium punishment as provided for by the UCMJ.
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Abq_Sarah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-28-10 01:14 AM
Response to Original message
28. USN 1980's
Option 1.

TS/SCI clearance.

Manning was a damned fool. You don't screw around with classified material by releasing shit you don't even understand.

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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-28-10 03:22 AM
Response to Original message
29. US Army 1982-1994. Throw the book at him.
The only positive thing about Manning's actions is it proves beyond any reasonable doubt George W. Bush's "we have to take away restrictions that keep intelligence agency 1 from seeing intelligence agency 2's raw product" was the most dangerous thing Shrub ever did. There is a reason the government decided to keep, say, human intelligence producers from seeing raw non-HUMINT data, and this is it.

Other than that...remember, Assange's "insurance" is a very large stack of raw, unredacted information he plans to dump onto the Internet if anyone does anything to him. If that gets out, people are going to die. Also, check out http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB260/index.htm... for "Black Friday." This is the kind of thing that happens if you don't compartmentalize.
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