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Cyrano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 03:12 PM
Original message
Is America broken beyond repair?
Many of us know that far too many know-nothings hold positions of power.

Many of us know that corporations own everything but our hearts and minds.

Many of us know that Limbaugh and Fox News control the votes of fools.

Many of us know that Bush/Cheney destroyed the United States Constitution.

Many of us know that we have entered a new dark age.

Many of us know that we might not see a new birth of freedom in our lifetimes.

And finally, many of us know (or at least suspect) that President Obama is an empty suit.

It is perhaps -- that last statement that saddens me most. At a time when enlightened/inspired leadership is most needed, its just not there.

The America in which I grew up, served for in the military, and in which I tried to further liberal causes, no longer exists. My sadness may be greater than my anger.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. Only if you stop trying to make it better.
It's up to you.
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. That's a greater answer than many will ever realize.
Because people deceive themselves that they don't need to do anything - someone else will. And then nobody does. And the problems get worse.
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. or that it's hopeless so why bother.
but you're right. do something. when enough people do something, the balance will tip in the right direction. i hope to see it in my lifetime but in the meantime i personally feel better when i am doing something even if it may not make a change i can see.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. Yes. In my 65 years, I have seen enormous changes, particularly
in human rights. Every one of those changes came because people voted. Every one of them. Change doesn't occur when we want it to, necessarily, nor does it occur immediately. It's a long, long process. We can either participate or let someone else decide. Personally, I choose to participate.
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StarburstClock Donating Member (583 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. A lot of us voted to make it better, it didn't happen
So we'll vote again and again and again and still nothing will happen as the entire election process is rigged and we the people are lied to by almost every person running for an office.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. And yet, many things have changed since I was born in 1945.
Most of them for the better, especially in the area of human rights. Yes, we voted, and things changed. You are woefully incorrect.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. Yeah? In 1945, with a population of @ 135 million, there were about
100,000 people in American prisons.

Today, at 300 million, we have 2 MILLION people in prisons.

That doesn't sound much like a civil rights advance to me.
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StarburstClock Donating Member (583 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #13
23. Jeebsus, I not incorrect, read the original post
You're blathering on about "most things...since I was born in 1945", not a damn thing mentioned in the original post. Why do so many people just have to get on the internet and scream "YOU'RE INCORRECT"? You mentioned equal rights, which are currently being thrown out the window in 4 states along with 20 others that have bills treating women like 2nd class citizens.

Ohhhhhh, but I'm "woefully incorrect". BULLSHIT.
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #13
26. Being about the same age, I think you are right on track. Looking at the big
picture I think we have progressed. That said, looking ahead, I do have a lot of trepidation. There seem to be a lot of negatives going on all at once, hopefully it will all settle out and we'll all be left standing.

I do know one thing, if we quit caring then we will ensure a really horrific future. We can't give up. Not that you said that, just saying it ...


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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. Voted, and campaigned, and marched, and protested,
and worked, and talked,

only to be betrayed time and again.

It's not like we just show up at the polls once every four years, and then wonder why things are going to shit.

A great many of us work our asses off, and it still goes to shit.
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. Because the corruption of our system is so huge, that it's systemic.
My humble opinion. It's BEYOND a single candidate or even a bunch of elected officials. Any reform has to be cultural, as well. How likely is that to happen?
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #20
39. So true.
Edited on Wed Mar-23-11 04:42 PM by CrispyQ
I see our four biggest problems being:

1. We need to get big money out of our elections. Money does not equal free speech, in spite of any SCOTUS ruling.

2. We need a media that reports the facts, not one that tries to be 'fair & balanced.' Not all sides are equal & those that lie on the air (too damned many of them!) should be called out on it.

3. Electronic voting machines - nothing more to say here.

4. The non-voters - we must engage these people in the electoral process! Many of them feel that there is no difference between the two parties, & while I agree somewhat with this, the only way we will take back our party or come up with a new liberal party is to engage these people.

Now, how do we accomplish this? I have no fucking clue. :(


on edit: OMG! How could I forget the most important one? REVOKE CORPORATE PERSONHOOD!
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Cyrano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. Hi CrispyQ. Every once in a while, an absolute truism is stated here on DU.
Your "I have no fucking clue" statement is about as true as it gets.

And I join you in that sentiment. If I knew how to "fix" anything in today's America, I'd do it in an instant. But the reality is, "I have no fucking clue" of where to start.

Regards,

Cyrano
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Yavin4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #7
61. Maybe Voting Doesn't Provide A Full Answer
There are better, much more effective ways to improve our lives beyond voting.
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Thunderstruck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
2. I remember in 1999 thinking how great things were and that it was indeed
a time to party.

Then came the 2000 election. That's when this Dark Age began.
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. The worst part: This dark age began when Bush took over the White House, but didn't end when he left
That's what really worries me.

The dragon was defeated, but something is still breathing fire on all of us.
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hifiguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #9
28. That's what has snuffed out what hope I used to have
All the worst of Chimpoleon's actions and policies have been institutionalized as the new normal. No investigations into war crimes, lying us into war, spying on everyone, indefinite detention without due process, "enemy combatants," rendition or any of the rest of it. All swept under the rug to be forever forgotten.

Even worse, if that is possible, Obama has done nothing, even rhetorically, to challenge the insane and ruinous economic policies this country has been saddled with since Ronnie Raygun. More for the plutocrats, screw everyone else.

The cave on the Chimp's tax cuts was for me the final straw.
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StarburstClock Donating Member (583 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. Exactly, it's proven that the U.S. is a criminal country
with absolutely no regard for any laws, treaties, UN charters, courts, regulations or standards. Americans are all 2nd-class citizens with no say in anything, tools for the paid-off whores to manipulate with their propaganda and to be arrested when protesting.

The USA is completely FUBAR, nothing like an actual democracy or regulated capitalist country that our "republic" was founded on.
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #32
52. It's a true plutocracy now and we ain't part of it ... we're the serfs, the have-nots in our
own country. That, has really come home to me now. I guess I'm just a slow learner, but the rotting of the piers this country was built on and the incredible decay are now really evident.

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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #9
51. That's an excellent synopsis! I feel exactly the same, "...something is still breathing fire on
all of us."
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liam_laddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #9
54. IMHO, actually began in 1980...
with the reign of the ersatz saint Ronnie Reagan. Will recommend a book: "The Man Who Sold the World" by William Kleinknecht (Nation Books, 2009)
ISBN 978-1-56858-410-2. About the behind-the-curtain Reagan. Good footnotes, reference material. We progressives will have a difficult time getting
through this tragic but true tale. :grr:
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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
3. All those things you listed ARE broken. But it's Americans themselves that are the cause of those..
...ills. And we're broken in so many ways. We allow those things to happen, accept them on some level.

But before I let myself sink too much into lamentation I should recall that if the Egyptians and the Yemenis and the Libyans, etc.- if they can create their own political paradigm shift then so, damnit, can we.

PB
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obxhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #3
41. BS. We overwhelming voted in 2008 to change those policies.
The Obama admin instead got behind them and reinforced their place.
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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. Oh, I can't disagree with ya there. When I said we, I meant us- not us and THAT dude who...
..IMO, is clearly not us. Cause us voted for some actual motherfucking change. And I'm still waiting.

PB
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DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
4. it seems that, not too many elections ago, corporations discovered
how far their money would go in buying legislators. I don't see that course changing - too much money involved.

Sad - but money buys power.
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. Exactly, that is the root cause of much of this. Too much money in elections, basically
a bribed political system, a monopolistic MSM, Citizens United and a dumbed down populace. Basically we live in a plutocracy. I often wonder what's going to change it ... I really thought after the 2008 elections it would change, so far it seems somewhat similar to me.

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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
5. The fight is never finished.
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tularetom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
8. The fact that it's our own fault doesn't make it any better
Changing the direction we are headed would require that 100 million morans get a brain. Quick.

Which isn't likely to happen.

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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #8
24. Not really -- There will always be million of morons, but....
It is not necessary or possible, to change all of their minds.

The populace has always had that.

It really "just" takes pushing enough people who have somewhat open minds to add to those who are aware already to create a critical mass in a more liberal/progressive direction.

Sure that is not easy -- it's really difficult. But it is doable.
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. I think what happens today is they are more visible with relentless 7x24 MSM and
some really loud fools. Also, the MSM panders to the Stupid factor to stir controversy and attract viewers. I think there are still a number of rational Americans.

I agree with you, as you said, "It really 'just' takes pushing enough people who have somewhat open minds to add to those who are aware already to create a critical mass in a more liberal/progressive direction."

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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
10. Thank you for your concern.
You need a refresher course on real American history.
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whatchamacallit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
12. Oh you mean the fixed game we lovingly refer to as "The World's Greatest Democracy"
Edited on Wed Mar-23-11 03:32 PM by whatchamacallit
Yeah it's busted. It's obvious to all but the most dewy-eyed romantics.
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jschurchin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
17. Without question
We, as a people, have lost control of our nation. We have stood by and let the corporate entity take control of our government by not DEMANDING that the people who represent us put the American publics interest first.

We have no one to blame but ourselves, and as each day passes it becomes less and less possible for us to take our country back. The corporate/financial monster consolidates it's power with the help of our so called "elected" officials and it becomes more apparent everyday that their only goal is the destruction of the middle and lower class.
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Denninmi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
18. Well, my heart wants to say no.
But my head says "yes" -- I only see things going downhill.
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
19. You woulda really loved living around Jackson's time, or...
Lincoln's, or Hoover's...

This is broken? You don't know what broken is.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #19
30. Whatever the problems of Jackson's time were, there was still a
relief valve in a huge American frontier.

Lincoln's time? This isn't quite up to Civil War brokenness, but it is well beyond 1850's brokenness which led to the civil war - only this time, if it should go so far, there is no clear end game of defeating rebel armies, freeing the slaves, and opening the west to slavery-free settlement.

Hoover? It is almost exactly like Hoover's time, only the social safety nets which didn't exist then are still cushioning the crash, while re-calibrated statistics keep the unemployment numbers well below their actual 15% - BTW, unemployment didn't reach 25% until after Roosevelt had been in office for some time. Big difference? Our heavy industrial plants are not just closed - they are gone. And they are not coming back.

The peoples' rights are being stripped away - jobs shipped overseas - we are in two big wars and half a dozen little ones, any of which have potential to also become big ones - politics is wholly controlled by moneyed interests - we still, 11 years after a stolen election, cannot trust that our votes will be counted as they were cast -

I know what 'broken' is.
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dkofos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
22. YES The baggers are right. Time to take it back by force.
Force of the ballot.

You better be voting next time.
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deutsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
25. I'm beginning to think that PNAC wasn't just about oil and Neo-Con foreign policy
It's also about redefining/restructuring American society to accomodate a global corporatist agenda.
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Runework Donating Member (141 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #25
37. PNAC Neocons Fascism
You need to understand the neocons are literally crypto-fascists, and neither repub or democrat. They dont care whoever is in office. They are in there influencing whomever (youll note some neocons met with obama recently)

The neocon ideology as derived from Leo Strauss is an "initiatic" one,
written in ciphers and codes.

While atheists themselves, they advocate religion as a means to pacify the masses.

While promoting "democracy" overseas, they feel Americans are too "decadent" to truly govern themselves.

You can get hints of their real agenda from Michael Leeden. He even wrote an admiring book about Gabriele D'Annunzio (Fascist Italian writer, originally an anarchist, like Leeden himself)


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deutsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #37
48. Oh, I understand that all too well.
It's all over, baby blue.
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BobbyBoring Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
27. here's a plan I like
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #27
35. Something like this is needed to shake the system and let the apples fall. As it is
the majority of citizens are treading water and those not haven't yet realized they're taking on water.
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #27
49. that deserves
a thread of its own.
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socialist_n_TN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. Yes it does.
This is an idea I've been toying with (a mortgage strike) ever since I've been on DU. One of my FIRST posts was about it.

Some folks should NOT participate IMO though. IF it would be logical for the bank to foreclose, DON'T DO IT. A couple of categories where you probably should NOT participate in the actual mortgage strike is IF you are NOT underwater. If the bank could actually make money by selling your home at current market values. If you're planning any mortgage business, purchase or refi witnin the next year to eighteen months, you should NOT participate in the strike.

However, just because you can't do the mortgage strike, doesn't mean that you can't be late on your credit card bill. One thing to remember, it doesn't show up on the credit report as actually late until it's a full THIRTY DAYS LATE. Now, they may put late charges on you before that, but to the bureaus if it credits on the 29th day after the due date, it's not late. Another thing you can do with credit cards is just pay the minimum payment for the duration of the action. And, OF COURSE, you can take part in street actions, rallies, protests, etc.
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rrneck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
31. No.
But the repairs will be higher than the estimate.
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
33. No more than usual -- whaT is broken is our willpower
America has always been a balancing act.

The difference is often the political to push for the positive.

Too many dispirited people weaken that, and defeatism only feed the powerful.
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Cyrano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. There is no balance in America today, Armstead
Edited on Wed Mar-23-11 04:31 PM by Cyrano
The right wing owns the vast majority of the media. And this means they own "the megaphone."

"The megaphone" is what Teddy Roosevelt called the "Bully Pulpit." Obama, or any other president has always had the ability to shape public opinion. And as strong as the right wing media (Fox, Limbaugh, et.al.) is, Obama isn't even in the game. He's sitting on the sidelines waiting for ...

Actually, I don't have a clue what President Obama is waiting for. But whatever it is, it will be long gone before he has an opportunity to bring about any balance to today's America.
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here_is_to_hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
36. Fuck yes. eom
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moondust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
38. Likely.
Edited on Wed Mar-23-11 04:45 PM by moondust
Glad I'm retirement age and not any younger.

(No doubt things are looking pretty good if you're an oligarch who doesn't have to work for a living.)
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #38
57. It's sad how many older people I hear say, "I'm glad I'm not younger!"
When I was a kid, no one said that. There was hope, possibility & belief that each generation would do better.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
43. possibly
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
44. Way, way, way past the tinkering around the edges time.
We require a major overhaul at the very least.
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VioletLake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
45. "America" has always been broken beyond repair.
Let us proceed from there.
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
46. It is, until people start voting for their best interests.
Since I can remember, Republican majority rule has been bad for both business and the majority of Americans. Apparently, they are now very good for some businesses, but none that the middle class might own.
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
47. no it's getting better, you're just in too much pain to see it
obama is no empty suit, a $20 billion victims fund for the gulf oil spill ain't no chump change, and that's just for starters -- compare to the "seeya in court, suckas" that the exxon valdez victims got...

his handling of the current crisis in libya, seems very statemanslike, he allowed others to (properly) make the argument and take the lead in calling out for action, instead of running off half-cocked cowboy-fashion like ronald reagan, who as we all remembered accomplished fuck-all except to kill qaddafi's baby daughter, a shameful incident that did no credit to the usa

just the fact that a black guy could be elected president (yeah i know it was because of the economy) is proof that america isn't lost, considering this country's horrid history of racism

you know, i'm sad and angry too, for instance, it really gets my goat that there is pretty much no chance of seeing equal rights for women in our constitution or anything but a bare pretense that women (other than wealthy women) are even remotely human beings with a brain and a heart -- we're either sex objects or pigs, and that's the way it goes in america and has for my lifetime -- and hell yell it saddens me, but i don't just assume the country is broken beyond repair, i just have to realize that the fight is tougher than i thought it would be when i was a kid, women are not second class citizens, we're barely citizens at all in the big scheme of things (always excepting the rich woman or the woman with a rich father/husband, now SHE may achieve without having a thousand road blocks put in her way)

but overall i see the possibility for improvement here and there, it's obvious we CAN change for the better -- and to pick out obama and call him an empty suit is just not correct in my view
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liam_laddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
53. Broken? EH-YUP!
:wtf: :puke: :nuke: :cry:
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Safetykitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
55. No.
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thanks_imjustlurking Donating Member (462 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-23-11 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
56. It has been worse.
But not much worse. And that's not much consolation anyway.
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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
58. Probably. But then again, so is the human race and the ecosystem. nt
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mochajava666 Donating Member (771 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
59. I could not agree with you more.
"At a time when enlightened/inspired leadership is most needed, its just not there."


Exactly.
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Yavin4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #59
60. Maybe That's Because You're Not Providing It
Why wait for Obama or any other politician to provide leadership. Why not do it yourself?
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mochajava666 Donating Member (771 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-25-11 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #60
63. At first, I supported him through a tough WI primary
On a national level, I was MoveOn.org's ward captain in a district in Janesville, WI that was full of blue-collar Reagan Democrats (aka Paul Ryan's district). FYI, there is an active KKK chapter there, so this was a hard and somewhat dangerous sell.

I've marched, my kids have gone to Washington to protest, I donate money to Amnesty International, the World Wildlife Fund, and the ACLU. Maybe that's not enough in your eyes, but when Obama could have supported the majority of his constituency and endorse a more liberal health reform legislation, I saw him selling me out in backroom deals with Big Pharma.

The fact that he has little regard to Habeas Corpus, or to accountability to the most basic of human rights when it comes to a secret prison outside the Bagram air base, makes me wonder when he will put on his comfortable shoes - as he promised - and actually stand for something with actions instead of just words.

He simply has not risen to the level of leadership needed for the times he is currently serving in. Unfortunately, we are all stuck in this leadership vacuum where people like you actually think that it is better to demand leadership from the voters instead of demanding leadership from the President.

Very sad, indeed.
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VioletLake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-25-11 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #63
64. Obama is a team player.
And we the people are not on the team.
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mochajava666 Donating Member (771 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-25-11 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. Unfortunately, you are right.
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mochajava666 Donating Member (771 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-11 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #64
67. Isn't it interesting that they have no reply.
Cowards, every one of them.
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mochajava666 Donating Member (771 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-11 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #60
66. Crickets. I guess you can't defend yourself
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mochajava666 Donating Member (771 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-11 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #60
71. You have embarrassed yourself here
I really hope that you learn from this and have a point next time.

Good luck on your next post. Hopefully it won't be such a failure.

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chaska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
62. Yes. To find out why read Charles Eisenstein....
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Nikia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-11 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
68. Maybe
On the otherhand, people from different places and times have persisted in fighting for causes where things seemed hopelessly against them. This why we must continue to fight what is right even if we don't see changes next week, this year, or even a decade from now. We owe it to ourselves and all future Americans.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-11 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
69. IMHO, we are way passed the point of no return. nt
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BOG PERSON Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-11 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
70. people have always thought this country was in the process of
going down the tubes, and it has yet to come out the other end.
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