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Did anyone actually call for Pres. Obama's impeachment, or do people just wanna go after Kucinich?

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CrossChris Donating Member (641 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:31 AM
Original message
Did anyone actually call for Pres. Obama's impeachment, or do people just wanna go after Kucinich?
I've never seen someone like Kucinich referred to in such vile terms.

In all my conversations with Democrats over the years, I've never heard anyone refer to him with any hatred or vitriol like I'm seeing today. I know people who think he's a little far out, and who disagree with him. I know some people who think his lack of polish hurts his ability to sell people on liberal ideals.

Never any hatred, not like I'm seeing today. It's very, very strange. Am I missing something? Did he flat out call for Obama's impeachment? Educate me as to why I should be as upset as most are today about what Kucinich said.

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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
1. People say much worse about Obama here. Why should kooch
Be treated differently, especially after doing something so stupid?
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Godhumor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. Amen. Was about to post exactly the same thing.
Of course, I tend to villify Kucinich every chance I get, because the man is awful--so, I guess I can't deny wanting to go after him (Though the hideously stupid impeachment comment certainly helps).
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CrossChris Donating Member (641 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #1
10. I don't disagree, but what did he do? Did he call for impeachment?
What did he say that directly called for the impeachment of President Barack Obama?
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. He threw the word out there. Now he's using it to raise money.
He deserves whatever criticism he gets. Of course republicans love it.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #14
40. + 100
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revolutionnow45 Donating Member (203 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #14
95. He should be going after Bush- we must crush Bush to save the Democratic party
"the scope and the consequences of it are much, much larger, and much more horrific. I have used this very rational format of a grand jury indictment to help people understand that we have evidence of a crime"

Elizabeth de la Vega has the charges prepared...why doesn't he raise money to pursue this?

Elizabeth de la Vega's Criminal Indictment of George W. Bush Et A-NOW is the time to go after them
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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CrossChris Donating Member (641 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #95
100. Thanks for posting this, I hadn't seen it.
I will read this in a bit, thanks.
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bigwillq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #1
15. I have to agree with you there.
Edited on Tue Mar-22-11 10:46 AM by bigwillq
Kucinich, or any other politican for that matter, shouldn't be above criticism for his/her words or actions.
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OnyxCollie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #15
38. LOL!
Edited on Tue Mar-22-11 10:58 AM by OnyxCollie
Mention Obama's tax cuts for the rich in GDP and see how that goes.
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #15
62. Thank you for your consistency.
:hi:
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #1
24. "I've never heard anyone refer to him with any hatred or vitriol like I'm seeing today."
that's because no one other than political junkies knows who he is...
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CrossChris Donating Member (641 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #24
51. So why spend the time &energy on him? It seems very, very strange.
I don't know what's stranger---that people will spend so much time and hatred on someone who only political junkies know about...

OR that someone on the Democratic side can be enough of a political junkie to know who he is, yet still hate him for sticking up for progressive values?

I guess the "values" people like him, and the people who's interest in politics is invested in a particular politician really hate him when he criticizes that politician. I've just never seen any flat-out hatred directed at the man, and I've followed politics intently for a while now.
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:13 AM
Original message
It doesn't really fit this issue with "impeachment", but when people are critical of other Democrats
it's often useful to point out that you could sometimes say the same thing about Kucinich, or when people complain that they would have to compromise to support our Democratic nominees, it is useful to point out that they would have to compromise on some issues if they were to support Kucinich as well.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #51
60. or just because he's an ineffectual grandstander who hasn't accomplished jack in his career.
Edited on Tue Mar-22-11 11:20 AM by dionysus
he can talk a great game because he'll never in his life have to be responsible for implementing any of it.

and since DU has become to go-to place to trash dems, i suppose saint kucinich is fair game.
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CrossChris Donating Member (641 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #60
69. Those are some of the terms I'm talking about. This is SHOCKING!!!
I've never seen him referred to like this. And I don't see other Dems getting trashed like this when they support the traditional liberal platform---only when going against it. It's like some sort of bizarro Rovian/Luntzian word-association game.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #69
72. SHOCKING!1!! Dennis can't legislate his way out of a wet paper bag.
he can talk great about liberal ideals, but he can't get a bill out of committee. it's just facts.

his latest fundraising effort is the epitome of grandstanding.
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CrossChris Donating Member (641 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #72
77. He moves the window of debate in this country towards the left. How is that bad for us?
I said it downthread---members of the right love to take extreme positions so that when public opinion settles in the middle, they always get their way.

Why would a liberal attack Kucinich for doing the same thing on the left? Stuff like that makes me think Democrats don't WANT to win the public debate. We always concede on Republicans' terms. I'm having a harder and harder time believing that it's not by design.
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CrossChris Donating Member (641 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #72
82. What's with the !!!1!!11 thing? Is that an attack on my intelligence?
I respectfully ask you to please stop doing that.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #82
86. it's been a DU staple for years!!11! aka "ELEVENS" nothing to do with you.
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CrossChris Donating Member (641 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #86
114. But it was directed at me, right? Just want to make sure that if you're insulting me, I at least
get the insult.
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #82
88. LOL!!!111ELEVENS111.
That's just DU-speak.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #88
91. CRUSIE MISSLES!!!! PRIVATE SCHOOL LATTE IN MY FACE111! eleventy crisis
:hi:
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #91
94. LOL, eleventy crisis.
And holy Kucinich, Batman!
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #82
99. It is a way to disparage others. It started as a spoof
of posts to conservative boards which are frequently badly written and badly punctuated. We have a whole archive full of misused words and strange phrasings, like "stock" for "stalk" and so on.
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CrossChris Donating Member (641 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #99
102. So he is trying to tell me that I sound like an ignorant conservative?
Edited on Tue Mar-22-11 11:54 AM by CrossChris
I'm trying to get a feel for the lingo & stuff.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #102
103. That's what it looks like, yes.
I'm sorry that your civil question was met by that kind of rudeness.
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #103
107. Oh good grief.
:rofl:
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #107
112. never underestimate how "!!11!!!!" can crush one's soul....
:P
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #112
115. Will there be an all-out effort to get the number 11 banned now?
:rofl:
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #115
120. first they came for !!11!, but i never posted !!11!...
Edited on Tue Mar-22-11 12:12 PM by dionysus
then they came for "just sayin'", but i never posted "just sayin'"

then they came for "DU this poll", but i never posted "DU this poll"

and then they came for "K&R if you..."

but there was no one left to speak for me..
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #120
121. The exclamation point is next!!!! Oops. But how do you emphasize
something if you can't use the exclamation point? Using all caps is a no-no already. There has even been criticism of the use of italics. OMG. Oh dear. I think OMG will be too much for some to bear, as well.
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CrossChris Donating Member (641 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #112
117. I asked you respectfully to stop. I'll ask you again.
Please stop. Thank you.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #107
119. That's pretty much what I was thinking, reading this thread, yes. n/t
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #99
110. are you casting asparagus at me?
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #110
122. Hopefully it's raw asparagus. Cooked would be way too messy.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #122
123. a hugh mess.
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snooper2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #69
108. SHOCKING? On the Intertubes
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #51
66. It's not like he brought up impeachment a month ago. It's only been
a couple of days since he said it, so we're talking about it. It was an incredibly stupid thing for him to do, too. Let's recap: it's a recent, very stupid comment by DK, so people are discussing that very recent, very stupid comment. Why wouldn't we?
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #1
43. Yes. I've started many threads about Kucinich.
I've criticized:

- His ability to promise anything because he'll never likely have to implement any of it.
- His tendency to say what people want to hear despite it's impact on his integrity a la the Shirley MacLaine UFO story, his courting of Ron Paul supporters, and his non-answer to 9/11 conspiracy theorists.

This is "flamebait" and unworthy of refutation, while people say all manner of things about Obama, including that he's a Republican in disguise.
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ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #1
44. +10000000000000 nt
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meow mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
2. from my perspective, he is supporting the sadism of ghadaffi.. in order to make some money
just the way im seeing it.
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FSogol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. and handing ammo to a bunch of RW nutcases too.
Kucinich does a lot of stupid things, but this is his worst yet.
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CrossChris Donating Member (641 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #6
20. How is attacking Dennis when he supports liberal values not doing the same thing?
Now the right has a bunch of ammo to attack the positions that Kucinich, and many other liberals support.

Just playing devil's advocate--I see what you're saying.
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FSogol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #20
58. I'll respond with this line from govtrack.us (a nonpartisitan group):
"Dennis Kucinich has sponsored 107 bills since Jan 7, 1997 of which 102 haven't made it out of committee and 4 were successfully enacted."


What good are liberal ideas/positions if we lack a method to get them passed? Kucinich can't even get a bill out of a committee. He is colossally inept. His impeachment speech/fund-raising scheme is more of the same.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/person.xpd?id=400227
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meow mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #58
90. +rec
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #58
104. That would be called, moving the goalposts. n/t
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whoneedstickets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #2
13. Nailed it
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krabigirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #2
37. ..... Is this 2003?
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #2
41. That's ridiculous.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
3. I've seen it before- for DK, for JK, for all kinds of other Dems-
sometimes people really loose self-control.

This is one of those times.

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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #3
11. Obama is trashed here on a daily basis. You didn't mention that.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #11
27. sorry- you are
absolutely right.

sorry to say, that it has gotten so ...common here.. that I really DID forgot to mention him.

I HATE it btw.- it is a sad statement of who we allow ourselves to be.

:hi:

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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #27
33. Thank you.
:)
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #11
28. HE DOESN'T COUNT11!!!!
:cry:

:D :hi:
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
4. Kucinich seems to be a symbol for critical liberals here...
...people who actually take positions on policy instead of falling in line like good soldiers.
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quinnox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Exactly
There has always been a die-hard group of Kucinich haters here.

A principled and far left politician is very disturbing to some folks, and is a symbol of the progressive left that some folks hate I think.
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whoneedstickets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #7
21. What principle is he standing up for here?
He's not taking the pacifist position that all war is wrong.

He's arguing (wrongly) about congressional - executive balance of power dynamics.

He's ignoring the presence of international legal sanction.

He's ignoring the "responsibility to protect" clause of the UN charter to which we are signatories.

His "principles" seem to be to get attention and attract money to sustain a campaign fight following redistricting.


Go Dennis, stand up for what you believe in -- your job!

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quinnox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #21
25. Are you talking about the impeachment thing?
Edited on Tue Mar-22-11 10:53 AM by quinnox
I think that was meant to be a private comment, wasn't that leaked by someone on the same call?

I don't believe that was meant for public consumption.
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whoneedstickets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #25
29. You mean the statement he printed in full on his website?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/21/dennis-kucinic...


Oh, I didn't realize that this was only a note to himself. My bad.
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quinnox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #29
39. did you read the statement on his website?
Go read it, it says nothing about impeachment. The word isn't even mentioned.
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whoneedstickets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #39
47. He dances around it, declaring the actions illegal
and admits to "raising the question" here:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/42196497#421964...

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whoneedstickets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #39
49. What principle?
So what is the principle?
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quinnox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #49
56. Kucinich is arguing that presidents can't commit military forces
without consulting congress, and that the president must ask congress to declare war. As he said, a reading of the constitution appears to back him up on that.
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whoneedstickets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #56
64. He's wrong.
http://www.slate.com/id/2288869

Even if he isn't completely wrong (there is some room for debate I suppose) then it seems WAY over the top to suggest impeachment when the legal foundations of you argument are so shaky. Why go out on a limb to take a poorly backed position like this?

The principle at stake here is him wanting attention.
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quinnox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #64
74. I disagree about him doing this for attention
Kucinich has always seemed to me to be a very sincere and passionate man about his politics.

If you think he is doing this for publicity, I think you are way off base and have not followed Kucinich's career over the years.

I'll leave it at that.

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CrossChris Donating Member (641 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #39
54. That's what made me start this thread. I see nothing suggesting he called for impeachment.
I guess the idea that he danced around it is a matter of perspective. I can see both sides of that one.
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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #7
34. I guess changing one's stance on abortion
when making a run for the presidency makes one principled

he used to be pro-life
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #34
76. it's dennis, he gets a pass on it, i suppose.
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CrossChris Donating Member (641 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #76
81. But he changed to the more liberal position. It would make sense if he went the other direction
Edited on Tue Mar-22-11 11:37 AM by CrossChris
Like moving from a liberal position to the more conservative one.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #81
89. some see it as pandering for when he ran for president. "pro-life" doesnt
play well when you're running for national office on the dem ticket.

i just find it funny, if you will, how any variety of democrats get torn to bloody shreds on here daily without mention, and it's outrage-ville if it happens to dennis. thats about it.
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CrossChris Donating Member (641 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #89
105. So you suspect that he is still pro-life, and lied for the sake of his campaign?
Very interesting. Again, I've never seen anything close to these charges levied at Kucinich in all my travels. I've seen people debate on whether or not he's a good speaker, whether or not he takes it "a bit too far", or whether he's electable enough in all the superficial ways to make a splash in the presidential elections.

I have never seen what I'm seeing today. I don't doubt that people disagree with Kucinich, or even dislike him, but I have never seen this level of what looks exactly like Rovian/Luntzian smears on the guy's character.

And so many all at once, all at the same time, all using very similar language.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #4
18. disagree. ANYONE can be a victim of critical posters on DU
and most critics would be happy to give you their 'justification' for doing so.

Truth is, we are just as flawed and human as those we believe we're better than.

:shrug:
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #18
32. You disagree that Kucinich is a symbol for critical liberals?
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #32
48. I disagree that he is 'novel'-
that only "he" is subject to the kind of vocal attacks against our own, which go over the top.

So yes, I disagree that he is a symbol for critical liberals.

You'd like to say it was because he is somehow 'special'- but the reality is a LOT of Dems have been vilified on here unmercifully over the years.

DK isn't alone.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #48
50. Who said he was "special"??? - not me.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #50
65. ok... well
could you explain what you were saying?

You said he was a "symbol for critical liberals here...


...people who actually take positions on policy instead of falling in line like good soldiers."

were you saying that "critical liberals" target DK? or were you saying that DK "actually takes positions on policy instead of falling in line like a good soldier"?

Maybe I'm wrong, but either one, would set him apart- or make him somehow 'special' versus being just like everyone else?

Do you see what I'm trying to say?


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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #65
96. I meant that some posters here jump on Kucinich as a symbol of...
...liberals who dare to criticize the president.
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #32
101. I'd think critical posters would choose a more powerful symbol.
DK is anything but powerful. And he's using this to raise money now. Disgusting.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #101
109. I meant that some who jump on Kucinich see him as a symbol for critical liberals.
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #109
113. That's silly. I jump on him when he does something stupid.
Kind of like when "critical" DUers jump on Obama all the time.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #113
116. Then you're not part of the "some" I mention - obviously.
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #116
118. Thank you. nt
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Bodhi BloodWave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #4
55. aside from that it could be claimed that you fall in line behind Kucinich
sure your not falling in line behind the president, your still falling in line behind somebody tho
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #55
61. That claim would be wrong - I personally don't fall in line behind anyone...
...not Kucinich, not Obama, not anyone - for me (and many other liberals) it's all about policy, not personalities.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #61
68. so, how is DK a "symbol" then? how is he any different than anyone
else?

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Bodhi BloodWave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #61
70. not denying that
Edited on Tue Mar-22-11 11:27 AM by Bodhi BloodWave
but an outside view could come to that conclusion, now i don't know you well enough to make any such judgments(nor is it my place to do so).

I must admit that there is a number of names on DU tho that I know are critical of Obama in all he does, that seem to follow a few different people be they politicians or radio/tv personalities word for word(which is one reason i find the 'falling in line' statement to be quite amusing most the time since those accusing others of it often can do the same but consider that to be different), Kucinich being one of the main alternate 'heroes'.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
5. The excessive focus on a minor player in national politics
is even more surprising to me. Kucinich is...we...just Kucinich. I haven't really noticed that he has much influence on anything on a national scale. He's a non-starter, when it comes to political clout. His pronouncements are not that interesting to me, even though I like some of his positions.
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CrossChris Donating Member (641 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. That's what's surprising to me. Why all the vitriol for someone based on their liberal principles?
It's not like his actions are really hurting President Obama.

Haven't the Blue Dogs hurt President Obama's attempts at progressive legislation a lot more?
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Godhumor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. And people here went after the blue dogs too--much more so than this
The difference is there is a large group here on DU that believe Kucinich is the ideal politician. There are a lot of people who haven't bought into his "I'm a leftie, really!" schtick and don't mind saying so. Including me.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #12
22. I don't know. Maybe it's just that it's easier to
follow or condemn a person than to assess real political conditions. Many people seem to find it simpler to focus on some catchword or some individual statement by someone than to look at an overview of political realities and make choices based on the overall flow of politics. Idealism is great, but reality is always a modifier of ideals. Every person has whatever ideals he or she holds. To keep from going completely crazy, though, most people accept that their ideals will not be completely met, since they conflict with the ideals of others.

There are lots of people with unbending points of view around here.
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whoneedstickets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #12
35. What liberal principle is he advocating here?
Edited on Tue Mar-22-11 11:13 AM by whoneedstickets
We have a liberal position on legislative-executive branch jurisdictional overlap caused by the constitution's war declaration and CinC language?


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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #35
53. Democrats don't believe in the separation of powers any more?
I missed the memo.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
9. The worse Obama gets,
the more his supporters hate DK, because DK is his antithesis. Since Obama's election, there are more people on DU who need to disdain him. In the past, DU on the whole has strongly supported DK for the most part, though there have always been those who didn't. Since they can't challenge him on the issues, opposition always takes the form of nasty attacks, name-calling, put-downs, and other juvenile bully behaviors.

You don't need to be upset with what DK said. He was consistent. You don't have to agree with him on impeachment; I don't. The Democrats wouldn't impeach GWB when he introduced articles to do so. There's no way they'll impeach one of their own.

I do agree with his stance against the actions in Libya, and his calling out the president on them. I'm not "upset" with him for suggesting impeachment for Obama. I do think our efforts should be directed towards 2012. Replacement, not impeachment.

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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #9
19. oh my.
this is just silly.

:crazy:

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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #19
59. I wonder what would happen if an Obama supporter said that kind of stuff about his non-supporters.
I know what would happen.
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #9
45. What a disgusting 1st paragraph. Trashing Obama supporters as if we're stupid idiots
with no intelligence at all. How would you like it if I said similar things about you? You really want to play that game? Because we can do that.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #45
79. Well, some of them ARE idiots.
There's idiots in all camps.

Because we can do that.

So what would be new about this? ;)
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #79
83. There is no qualifier in LWolf's 1st paragraph.
How are you doing Forkboy? :hi:
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:37 AM
Original message
I'm alive and kicking.
Thanks for asking. :)
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #9
63. !
:rofl:
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #9
67. there's a reason he can't poll above dismally low single digits, and it ain't his crappy toupee.
he's an attention seeking grandstander, no more, no less.

the only reason he can talk a great game is because he will never, in his life, be responsible for implementing policy.

you want to admire a guy that's so inneffective he can't get a bill out of committee, knock yourself out.
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #67
71. But
the magic toupee was supposed to bring him good luck!!!

:rofl:
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #71
75. it's not even olive-proof. REFUND!
:shrug:
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #75
80. ...
:rofl:
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #9
106. LOL!! Effing LOL!!!
That's some crazy dot connections you got going there!

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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #106
124. Seriously.
:rofl:
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CrossChris Donating Member (641 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
17. Members of the right take extreme stances, so when things settle in the middle, they get their way.
Is it the worst thing in the world when our side does it?

Maybe some Democrats don't WANT their values to win the battle of public opinion.
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solara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
23. Did DK ever call for the impeachment of GW?
If not, I think it is a little strange that he called for impeachment of Obama..

GW LIED to get us into a WAR, totally different circumstance. I just don't get it.



:shrug:
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #23
30. in 2008 apparently he did.
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quinnox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #23
31. yes he did n/t
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #23
42. He hasn't called for the impeachment of Obama...
He said it's an impeachable offense.
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
26. I think....
...Dennis Kucinich is swell!

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krabigirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
36. I don't hate kucinich! Still proud I voted for him in the primaries. But yeah, i can see why people
would.
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
46. What you're missing is the lie: vehement disagreement or being upset=hatred.
It happens all the time with Obama with those who disagree with him, even vehemently, being called Obama haters. The same thing happened with Clinton during the primaries with Obama, that if you disagreed with her or even called her names it meant you hated her. I'm sure that there are Democrats who do hate Obama or Clinton, but I don't buy that even scathing disagreement means hatred.

It is my opinion that Kucinich is an attention whore with a huge ego. He likes to wax with righteous indignation that gets him attention with some who fawn over his every word, but I don't see him as having any actual accomplishments, any important laws for which he has been the major champion. I don't like Kucinich, but I certainly don't hate him.

There is no requirement that I like all Democrats and I read of many of them here being raked over the coals when they don't dance to DUers' tune, even mine. If Kucinich's recent treat is the worst you've seen over the years then I would have to believe there is no middle school today.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #46
52. a rose by any other name is still a rose.
people can deny feeling hatred- but their words and actions speak louder than they know.

A scathing disagreement on an issue, is much different than attacking an individual as a human being.

The fact that it happens all the time on DU doesn't make it right- or acceptable.

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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #52
57. Right, because you know who hates better than they do.
I don't hate Kucinich, but I don't like him. I can actually say the same thing about most Republicans, even my governor here in Wisconsin, Scott Walker. I don't like him, I vehemently disagree with him, but I don't hate him.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #57
98. no, I'm not saying that.
we can argue till we're blue in the face over the meaning of 'hate'-

People excuse some pretty rotten personal attacks as "vehement disagreement" or excuse their actions because they were "upset" but it doesn't change the reality.

I'm not speaking about arguing about in issue or a belief- I'm talking about trying to belittle and demean an individual-


Treating someone terribly, while claiming not to "hate" them might make it feel more OK- but imo, it doesn't make it true.

Hate- by definition is "intense dislike or contempt".
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #52
73. Espousing and enabling a set of policies and ideologies eventually reflects on the individual
for good or for ill.
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CrossChris Donating Member (641 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
78. Can someone paste Kucinich's call for impeachment here?
Let's put this thread out of its misery. What did Kucinich actually say that is earning him all these disproportionate attacks?
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
84. It's not really DK that pisses them off, but his supporters here.
Since it's against the rules to attack other DUers they attack DK as a way to get a his supporters on DU by proxy. It goes the other way around, too. It's all pretty fucking stupid, and one thing DU has convinced me of is that Democrats are petty and vindictive and deserve what they get more often than not.
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #84
85. Apparently it's not against the rules to trash Obama supporters here. nt
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #85
87. Have you alerted?
And if so, how long has it been since the alert? You know that attacks that get alerted on will get deleted sooner or later, and I rarely see attacks on anyone's supporters standing for too long.
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #87
92. Yeah, twice, the first being right after it was posted. Thus my conclusion that attacking Obama
supporters is just fine on DU these days. *sigh*

So, how's the girlfriend situation? I'll get you married off yet. :)
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #92
93. LOL...I wouldn't bet on that happening.
No offense to my ex-wife, who is a great person, but I'll never get married again. :)
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #93
97. Awwww.
You know that character on NCIS, the goth chick forensics genius? That's who you need. She's smart, she doesn't like the sun, and she likes death metal. If only she were real...
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CrossChris Donating Member (641 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
111. Again, can anyone paste Kucinich's call for Obama's impeachment here?
I have looked for it, but can't find anything where Kucinich is saying we should impeach President Obama.
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cbayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
125. Locking
We encourage members to discuss ideas rather than other members or their motives.

cbayer
DU moderator
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