Cindy Sheehan: ‘Barack-A-lujah! I Have Seen The Light!’

[Karmadillo]

http://www.eurasiareview.com/cindy-sheehan-barack-a-luj... /

Cindy Sheehan: ‘Barack-A-lujah! I Have Seen The Light!’
Sunday, March 20, 2011

<edit>

I used to be against ALL wars and the use of violence, but (and I must admit a little confusion on this one, at first) now it seems that I am against wars, acts of war, and violence ONLY if a Republican is president. Now I understand with perfect clarity that it was good to protest Bush—and if the US-UN resolution against Libya was done when Bush was president, it would have been wrong—but now it’s “compassionate.” I must admit, I was a little shocked to find out that the US actually commits compassionate acts and, again, silly me—I thought most acts of war and war were for profit. I realize that only a jerk (or racist) would think that now. I have repented.

I cringe with embarrassment when I think of the wasted years imagining that there could be any other way to solve problems without killing more innocent people! It’s okay to bomb Libyans to save Libyans (or Iraqis to save Iraqis; or Afghans to save Afghans; or Yemenis to save Yemenis, etc) because a Democratic president who has been given the cover of the UN Security Council may bomb them. Yep, it’s all starting to make sense. With all the continuing conflicts, imagining a world without war was starting to seem useless—and now I know it was! Phew!

This is another kooky idea I had—that the Security Council of the UN oftentimes, if not always, bowed to the will of the global oligarchy—or should we say, OILigarchy. I chuckle, because apparently that notion was either dead wrong, or was just a fact of life up until January 20, 2009.

Here’s another mistaken notion that I labored under all these years: Torture is inhumane and a war crime. Up until just last week, I thought the US torture camp at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba should be closed and that military tribunals should not resume—but President Obama signed an executive order to keep Gitmo open and resume military tribunals. Wow, it’s like from almost one day to the next, torture and illegal, indefinite detention became acceptable practices.

more...

[dionysus]

1. poor woman went totally insane.

[Aerows]

105. The Onion?

Dear lord, did you fall for that from the first two sentences? Read them again.

[AtheistCrusader]

179. I acutally assumed it was her.

But her, dripping with sarcasm.

Edit: It is. It's not the Onion.

[Name removed]

241. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[thotzRthingz]

284. I wonder how many read the entire article... it's NOT that long:

...it closes with these lines:

In Obama I trust. What a relief! Having a conscience is very isolating.

Let’s Party with a capital D because if I can CHANGE, then there is HOPE for everyone and anyone else who are still lost wandering nearly alone in that wilderness of integrity.

Come home!

War is Peace!

Freedom is Slavery!

Ignorance is Strength.

2 + 2 = 5

[L. Coyote]

111. Intelligent woman providing powerful opinion

Do you find that threatening, and if so why?

[Name removed]

126. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dionysus]

127. "Male chauvinism?" no, i just think she's crazy.

[Name removed]

129. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[defendandprotect]

173. We're so conditioned to war and violence that we can't remember any other way --

[tavalon]

136. Care to back that up?

She is being very, very consistent in her beliefs. She sees what many of the rest of us see. The "leader" has changed but the MIC goes on unabated. She did it in a snarky way, but don't we all from time to time?

[Bluenorthwest]

232. It is extremely common for men to call women 'crazy' rather than

address their actual positions. In a recent New Yorker, in fact, Tina Fey pokes fun at that meme, saying that when she suggests an actress who is 'over 40' the men tell her 'oh, she went nuts, she's totally crazy now' which means she's not as hot as she was at 29.
To use words about mental illness to describe a woman with whom you do not agree is something frequently done by men who wish to avoid saying what they mean, it is a stereotype, a meme, a thing oft repeated. When making use of oft repeated phrases, you pick up the baggage that goes with them. This is why it is great to take a long hard look at one's words, and to consider the concept of addressing issues and political positions on a political board, rather than lowbrow personal snark that yes, does smack of sexism, or echos the sexism of the culture. This is not a Gossip Board, nor is it 'Do the Dozens Underground'. To discuss persons, using personal commentary, is to be inherently off topic, because we are here talking about issues. About what she said, not about your Frist style long distance medical opinion.

[Le Taz Hot]

247. Remember how they called Martha Mitchell crazy?

Held her in a room with F.B.I. agents and wouldn't let her out to speak. Iirc, they even had her committed for a time. Turns out, she was right all along.

[Bluenorthwest]

255. Oh yes, Martha, not only crazy, but a loud mouth...

Yep

[Le Taz Hot]

265. Women with opinions = Loud Mouths

Women disagreeing = crazy.

[Plucketeer]

325. I feel a little uncomfortable with the characterizations here.

I don't discriminate when I use the terms "Loudmouth" or "Crazy". Male - Female, if I think it's a fair descriptor, I'll apply it. And I'll add that age has nothing to do with how I affix these titles either.

Now, I'd like to ask if it's improper for me to call Palin or Bachmann "crazy". Possibly, by some shrink's assessment, they're not. Thankfully, I'm not bound by such reins.
What I'm saying is that if I apply that judgement to some gal that's over 40, it's NOT because of her sex or the candles on her cake - it's because I think she's friggin' nuts.

[Le Taz Hot]

333. I don't think anyone meant to imply an

all-inclusive set and if that's what came across it's certainly not what I meant to convey. I was singling out a specific subset of males and females who seem to want to assign negative terminology to strong women.

[Plucketeer]

339. I didn't figure you had meant it to be all-inclusive, but...

I figured it couldn't hurt to have it spelled out. I've never ever thought of women as anything less than equal to my gender. Heh - I've had them "put me in my place" enough times to know better!

[QC]

248. The words "hysterical" and "hysterectomy" come from the same root.

Yes, people once believed that having a uterus made one over emotional.

Some people around here still think so, apparently.

[Bluenorthwest]

256. Exactly.

The Tina Fey piece is funny as hell about it, but it is true as can be.

[chervilant]

272. Thank you

for this cogent assessment of the 'she's insane' meme. I am most dismayed at the number of DUers who post such reprehensible personal attacks. To what end do they denigrate one of our most courageous anti-war activists?

Oh, and the mods have deleted some messages that were intended to point this out. I know, because I had one of them, and it's gone.

[hfojvt]

324. but if somebody thinks what she said is "nucking futs"

then it will have less to do with gender than with substance.

If I, for example, were to continually write essays about my great plan to increase the tax rate to 95% for incomes over $50,000, people would generally respond to the fourth such essay with replies like "give it up you lunatic" even though I am a male. That's what happens in general when people espouse ideas that others thing are more than a little flaky.

[chervilant]

362. Actually,

if that were the case, I simply would not read your essays. I wouldn't have to say 'give it up, you lunatic' -- I mean, why belabor the obvious?

[DevonRex]

307. She's either crazy or she's in it for the publicity.

Come to think of it, they're not mutually exclusive, are they? I mean, look at ole DK.

[lark]

327. Anti-war, anti-torture = crazy?

Do most DU males support that narrative, or is it just you? Sad, either way.

[tavalon]

135. No, she has strongly held values that don't change based on who is in the Whitehouse

Many of us are like that and that's why President Obama went from the hope and change guy to same old, same old and some of us actually noticed.

[FourScore]

138. OMG...This is undoubtably the ugliest thread I have ever read here on DU.

Some of you I really admire, others of you...well, we seldom agree on anything. But this nastiness...This ugliness. Wow. It boggles the mind. Am I in freeperville or something? No wonder some of my favorite DU'ers are no longer a part of this community. Sad.

BTW, I don't care whether or not you agree with her post. I don't care what you think of her as a person. I'm talking about the nasty, direct attacks on a very outspoken liberal. And one who lost her son in an illegal war, no less. Disgusting.

[hfojvt]

199. "a very outspoken liberal"

Really. And what is she doing here to advance any liberal cause? She's attacking those on the left who disagree with her as hypocrites. And she has, in my opinion, written a very foolish and obnoxious essay to do so. Well, the people who are attacked by her, will strike back, and the people who think her essay is foolish, even ridiculously foolish, will say so.

Just because she is supposedly on the left (and yet seemingly here attacking the left) and outspoken, she is supposed to be above criticism?

However, I do agree that it would be nice if people would respond with some sort of substance, and discussion of ideas, instead of going directly to ad hominem. That does seem at least as lame as her essay.

But it is not without precedence.

[tavalon]

203. substance does seem to be in short supply in this thread.

[tomp]

212. the left? you don't perchance mean obama do you?

or the UN? because that would just be silly.

[radiclib]

214. "respond with some sort of substance"?

OK. You start.

[hfojvt]

263. I should have been the first at post 199?

At least I provided more than one line, although I did not discuss the OP in any detail. I am kinda surprised that 8 people even saw my post this deep in the thread.

[Plucketeer]

302. How many kids have you lost in our nation's recent warring spree?

How many should folks offer up as shrapnel absorbers in the quest to keep oil flowing to our gas tanks? Cindy writes fine by my yardstick. You can offer "substance" til a bayonet runs you thru. Doesn't make your death any more justifiable.

[hfojvt]

319. boy, talk about irrelevancies

I guess since Cindy has lost a son, that I am supposed to applaud if she writes "our snark is a boojum" or "twas brilling and the slithy toves ..." or "I thought war was always about profit".

I am kinda curious as to what Cindy did before the war? I did what I could to keep George W. Bush out of office, and he lost my county, the neighboring county (where I wrote just about the only pro-Gore LTTE), and my state. I like to think I helped make that happen. Before the war, I rented a car and drove to Lawrence for the anti-war protest. I sent my congressman a fax through True Majority (and got a letter back where he explained the imminent threat from Saddam, and then I worked to defeat that POS in 2004 and 2006, succeeding in 2006 as Nancy Boyda defeated a 5 term incumbent in a pink district.)

Maybe I should get some credit for caring even though I have no son in the game. Maybe if I'd had a son, I woulda raised him to fight the war machine instead of joining it.

Bayonets and yardsticks. Were you raised in the 19th century or something? Yardsticks? Bayonets? The only way I am getting killed with a bayonet is if my gun runs out of ammo. And I understand they have these extended clip thingies now.

[Plucketeer]

328. I must apologize

My fervor and empathy for Cindy has clouded my perception. I simply could not see your perfect posture and pitch initially. OF COURSE, you're correct. Every I-dot and T-cross is beyond question. We're blessed we have righteous warriors like yourself at the forefront. Go ahead now, I'll follow!

[hfojvt]

330. I am just curious

What exactly do you think you are doing here?

Maybe it is just my Asperger's, but it appears to me that you are playing some sort of game.

And you seem to think you have thrown a touchdown pass.

Is my perception correct?

[Plucketeer]

331. Holier than thou.

Wholly predictable. Hey - have a nice day!

[hfojvt]

335. So you do think it is a game?

And you think that I think I am playing too, and that I think I scored a touchdown with an unorthodox play or am somehow crying to the referees over your last touchdown.

[Erose999]

231. She's right to go after those on "the Left" who support the wars. I mean our DLC overlords

got us to support Obama because he would "put an end to the wars" and "send a definitive message to the world that the US does not torture" or something like that. I mean I remember him saying that he would "sign an executive order closing GITMO on day one" or something like that.

And the hell of it all is that Jared Lee Loughner probably has better accommodations in his detention than Bradley Manning (Manning should be free'd immediately and we should have fucking parades and monuments built in his honor IMO).

[Bluenorthwest]

237. I hear often on DU that 'criticism' and 'bashing' are the same.

Her views are open for all person's views in response. However, calling people you do not agree with names is not political discourse, it is gossip, backbiting, bully behavior. There is no position that one can hold or counter that can decently be presented by claiming those who do not agree with you are mentally ill.
The mainstream of society has done exactly that to women and gay people for generations. And you are defending the ad hominem off topic slanders on the person in lieu of counter arguments to her positions. You are taking that up by pretending anyone here said 'she's above criticism' when what is being said is that it is smarmy to slander a person for their opinions. Smarmy.
Odd that it is the same people who call all criticism of Obama policy 'hate' and 'bashing'. Yet when they call someone 'insane' and 'crazy' they are just 'critics' of that person. Uh huh.
You sort of stick to the essay, not the author, but you also go out of your way to claim that DUers are claiming she is above criticism, when what is being said is that some tactics should always be beneath us as DUers and as decent human beings. We do not use baseless slander in place of reason. The petty tactics, they define those who use them, not the people they address.
You could at least be honest about what others have said here. You could. Who said she was above criticism? No one. Personally, I've not said a word about Cindy, just about the tactics on this thread that I speak out against anywhere, toward anyone, at anytime.

[hfojvt]

274. usually those who equate criticism and bashing

are the bashers who are trying to claim that they just criticize.

Clearly, bashing IS nothing new here at DU. One line or one word of snark is par for the course in many, many, threads.

The very person I replied to seemed to say that Cindy should somehow be exempt from the treatment that almost anybody else would get. "I'm talking about the nasty, direct attacks on a very outspoken liberal. And one who lost her son in an illegal war, no less. Disgusting."

As for the rejoinder that "you are crazy" or "she is crazy", typically that is not a serious diagnosis of mental illness, and it is often a response to ideas or statements that are well outside the norm.

Especially if one throws the verbal equivalent of a rotten tomato, they are likely to get it back in kind. Cindy didn't try to persuade, she chose to insult as well.

That tends to make persuasion more difficult, although it often earns huzzahs from the people who already agree with you.

I also speak against this notion everywhere - that there are two kinds of people in the world, people who agree with me, and people who are morally and/or intellectually defective.

Granted, in this case, it may seem that it is critics of Sheehan who are saying she is defective for disagreeing with them, but no, from the tone of her piece, as she mocks those who disagree with her as idiots or hypocrites, the "I am right, you are defective" theme is the heart of her message.

Since it seems to me that she drew first blood, I am not gonna chastise the children who hit back.

Is that honest enough for you?

[GillesDeleuze]

246. I tend to agree.

While I find her passion and her ideals applaudable, her application of her values into a larger strategic pragmatic tends to fail. Its rare Juan Cole and the Economist agree on the use of US force. The arguments from across the spectrum, from radical intellectuals to conservative foreign publications does not rely on mockery, but experience and careful study.

I'd love to hear what role Cindy thinks the United States should have played in Kosovo.

Care to enlighten us, Cindy?

[Le Taz Hot]

249. The left are the left.

The Democrats are the Democrats. Two entirely different entities. She's "attacking" a Democratic president and holding him to the same standards as she would (and did) a Republican president. The left actually sides with her, the Democrats don't.

[GillesDeleuze]

253. eh..

This left you speak of, who is it again?

[LWolf]

262. Me, for one. nt

[Le Taz Hot]

266. Well, the left doesn't believe in:

war without end, torture, incarcerating people for an indefinite period of time without due process, draining social programs, Social Security and Medicare to pay for endless wars tax cuts to the wealthy, bank bailouts, health care only for those can afford it, prosecution for marijuana possession, including in MM states, gay marriage bans, Guantanamo, tax cuts for the wealthy . . . I could go on but you get the picture. Obama has supported all of these and more.

I am one of The Left.

[GillesDeleuze]

277. I guess the only part Im really concerned with is this:

and if the US-UN resolution against Libya was done when Bush was president, it would have been wrong—but now it’s “compassionate.”

Its:

1. untrue
2. hyperbolic
3. shows an incredible lack of care for detail, context or fact, leading me to believe she may have an agenda other than simply 'compassion'

[LWolf]

260. +1

[hfojvt]

281. as long as we are divided and sniping at each other

then we will continue to lose to the right.

Maybe we will lose anyway, since they do have lots and lots of power.

But Democrats and the left are not 'entirely different'. They are, instead, over-lapping.

I was left enough to not vote for Clinton in 1992 and 1996. I'm left enough to be highly torqued at Obama.

But I don't agree with her. I think she's being ridiculous and simplistic and counter-productive.

She has a bit of a history of that, too. If she speaks for the left, then I think the left needs better spokespeople.

[Plucketeer]

290. Yeah

What we need is our own "FOX news" kinda thingy we can march behind. The sorta thing where keeping in step is more important than silly things like ideals and principles!

[hfojvt]

315. aren't you urging people to keep in step - with your unwavering principles?

And how many principles cannot ever be compromised? Why, all of them, of course. Anybody who is not 100% with us, is against us, and deserves to be attacked.

So there's our ragtag army trying to take on tanks, helicopters and flame throwers, but instead of organizing and fighting against the enemy, our left flank and right flank are busy shooting and throwing molotov cocktails at each other.

As for a Fox news of our own. Well, we already now have Rachel, LarryO, Mr. Ed, and KeithO (has his show started yet?). When they say it, we applaud on cue.

[obxhead]

257. The people here who

were against war, torture, and domestic spying that now support it because Obama is President are hypocrites.

[LWolf]

261. To say the least. nt

[GillesDeleuze]

278. LUDACRIS! WHO SUPPORTS TORTURE, WAR AND SPYING?

Cindy says some really stupid stuff about Libya and takes a ridiculous tone that does nothing to inform the debate and all of a sudden I support torture?

what the fuck

[obxhead]

364. I called no DUer out specifically.

There are people here who now support the wars we are in that were against them while Bush was in office.

There are people here who were vehemently against torture and GITMO that now say nothing can be done and it's ok because Obama's hands are tied.

There are people here who raged against the Patriot Act who now support Obama's call for continuing the law.

There are plenty of hypocrites on DU who were extremely vocal about Bush policy that are now not only content, but outspokenly for it, because Obama is the signature behind continuing it.

Finally, I did not reply to a post you made here.

[GillesDeleuze]

369. Doubtful!

You may have political disagreements about how to best end those practices and strategies, but you'll be hard pressed to find a pro-war, pro-torture crowd.

I can ONLY assume you were talking about the critiques in this thread of hysterical reactionaryism of the type Cindy Sheehan practices.

Most of which goes unanswered. Instead posts intended only for the pleasure of the author pop up like this everywhere. You are the real DU. You are the Real Left. Anyone who thinks Cindy Sheehan is a troll IRL must support torture!

It makes you look bad and it makes these boards seem quite pointless.

[hfojvt]

313. How many such people are there?

Being "against war" seems like a simplistic position to me. It was never mine. Like most Americans, I was for the war in Afghanistan. I was for the action in Kosovo as well, although I don't like the way it was done.

As for torture and domestic spying. First, almost nobody supports torture in principle, but most are willing to over-look it in practice when it seems necessary. If you have seen the first Dirty Harry movie, that provides an obvious example, albeit not a real-world one. In that story, this serial killer kidnaps a young woman. Harry goes to pay the ransom, but the guy tries to kill him. Harry stabs the guy, who still gets away. But Harry tracks him down, and then shoots him as he is trying to surrender. Then tortures the guy to get the location of the girl.

My point is that most people are not purists on this issue, and never were. We will tolerate torture if we think a) it might do some good, and b) the person being tortured 'deserves' some suffering, and c) we trust the people in charge.

The last line being key. That many people did not trust the Bush team. That they seemed like sadistic thugs, the kind who would torture just for fun and profit.

Same thing with domestic spying. First, it wasn't a huge issue for me even when Bush was President. Second, it does depend on trust. The police and other government officials have a certain amount of power. If you trust them to be fair, and to have the best interests of the community in their heart, then you are okay with giving them power and discretion. Right now many still trust Obama to not be using the powers of government and law enforcement to enrich Haliburton et. al. or for other nefarious purposes.

[lark]

329. If a person says they're "left" but always vote with the "right"

or always support the right's positions - how liberal are they? You attack Cindi for pointing out the hypocricy of Obama's right wing actions, which is the same as saying that tax cuts for the wealthiest, no justice for Wall St. & banks for the theft of all our money, BP is doing a heck of a job, Afghanistan& Iraqi wars forever and now add LIbya to that. If you are supporting these positions, you are part of the problem. If you don't realize that Obama is not progressive, you have not been paying any attention and are still living in the long faded glow of the election.

[hfojvt]

334. except this is less about Obama than it is about Obama supporters

Secondly, I don't think I really attacked Cindy. I said something like she wrote a stupid and obnoxious piece, in my opinion. It's like a vaudeville act. Some people might applaud, while others will throw rotten tomatoes. I am just saying that I can sympathize with the tomato hurlers even if we are outnumbered here by the applauders.

What I think is part of the problem is the constant "you are either with us or against us" mentality. Or worse yet, you are either with us or you must be intellectually and/or morally defective.

My own support or lack of support on Libya is going to have zero impact on policy. So there's really no point to spitting on me or giving me ten lashes with a wet noodle.

[FourScore]

143. OOps. Sorry tavalon, my other post was not directed at you.

I didn't mean for it to land there. It is directed at the same people you are taking issue with.

[KoKo]

150. I was wondering about your post...Seems You, Me and Tavalon agree...not the opposite as it seemed at

first. Sheehan is a treasure. It's been sad to see the first person who sat in a ditch on the road to the Bushie Hideout in Texas be so trashed here on DU in recent years. She was the FIRST to break the "code of silence" surrounding Chimp's actions.

I met her here in NC at an Anti-Iraq Invasion March...with Ann Wright. She's the REAL DEAL.

[FourScore]

155. Thanks KoKo!

I'm in good company with you and tavalon!

[chervilant]

177. The REAL DEAL,

PLUS courageous, smart, and steadfast in her activism!

I was one of many who took supplies to Cindy in the first days she was encamped at Crawford. I admired her quiet fortitude then. I met her again at a rally in Houston. Ann Wright was there, as were a number of other dedicated activists. She did not deviate from her powerful message, and I was again thankful that we have such an awesome activist among us.

Those who mock or seek to diminish her in any way are pathetic.

[Toucano]

180. +1 K&R

[Mimosa]

188. ^ Great graphic on Toucano's post above. ^ n/t

[DeSwiss]

137. I think that you need to re-read your own sig line.....

...especially that part about "the ignorance of the sedated masses."

- Geeze.....

[liberation]

153. Thanks for proving her point

LOL

[roguevalley]

165. how?

[Name removed]

172. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rucognizant]

219. WHO wouldn't go stark raving?

dealing with a bunch of people who keep shooting themselves in the foot both LEFT & RIGHT,instead of taking effective action to change the way corporate power is screwing all of us.
Unanimous BOYCOTT OF Walmart? Kraft FOOD? Coke & Pepsi?& on & On . STARBUCKS?

"YOU HAVE THE POWER"- Howard Dean..............

BUT YOU ARE NOT USING IT!

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As of April 23, 2007, the website was shut down, and the following message was posted at the site:
Thanks for your support! The BuyBlue team would like to thank you for all of your support over the past 2 years, unfortunately we are shutting our virtual doors. We hope that we've been able to educate consumers and inspire people to take action and vote with their wallets. Maybe another group will take up this charge in the future, but for now we can no longer do so. Just because we won't be online any more does not mean that the information we provided cannot be found any longer. You'll want to keep the following information sources in mind. Also, BuyBlue Colorado, an independent organization, will continue to remain operational.

[ima_sinnic]

227. did you have any real facts to offer to rebut her assertions?

or are you just going to call her "totally insane" and leave it at that?

I don't see anything, anything at all, in this piece that isn't a reflection of the true situation. Nothing there indicates mental illness or irrational thinking.

Without any facts to show she's wrong or misguided, you really haven't said anything, except to reveal more about yourself than about her.

[DevonRex]

308. Yes she did!

[Marnie]

314. Read the whole thing at the link.

It is so over dramatic over spoken it can only be shark.

Does not walk like a road to Damascus moment, doses not quack like a Road to Damascus moment, so probability is a poor man's Johnathan Swift satire. It has recognizable duck feathers that way.

I can't imaging she would betray her son that way.

[JackRiddler]

371. Congrats on landing your meaningless personal attack in at Reply #1. You win the...

Rapid Response Commando of The Day Award!

[ecstatic]

2. Barack a lujah? Is it possible for her to make her point

without all the sarcasm? I think that stifles discussion and puts people on the defensive.

[Joe the Revelator]

45. Her ego took over the movement.

[Vinnie From Indy]

70. +10000

She has made herself irrelevant. Her silly, immature scribblings only impress a handful of members in the "cult of Cindy".

[polly7]

205. The cult of Cindy / aka millions who appreciate her as one of the

most important anti-war voices of the decade. She'll be relevant just as long as Bush, Rummy, Cheney and the rest of the war-hawks are.

[Name removed]

242. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Aerows]

106. The Onion

Satire.

[KoKo]

151. I think given the amount of posts here about Bachman & Palin...that she has to Break Through...

I loved her post because it speaks to the Progressives and those of us who don't believe in the Unitary President who can bomb countries at will without asking for a Declaration of War...and getting it from Congress. Certainly Obama could have Invaded Libya given the weakness of our Democrats after the disatrous 2010 Election. And there are enough Dems like Liebmerman and Blue Dogs that would have cheered him on.

Yet...he didn't ask.. He just went ahead like Bush..citing some obscure UN Resolution #9....something ...which is just what Bush II did when he invaded Iraq.

Tell me the difference. It makes me sad that I voted for him. Actually it eats my guts out that I even bothered to vote for him for President. I wish I'd written in.."NONE OF THE ABOVE." I don't say this lightly.

[Confusious]

189. I thought the UN voted on a resolution

Creating a no-fly zone 48 hrs before he bombed.

[reggie the dog]

210. the USA was not the first country to bomb either,

France was, and the UK and USA sent missiles at the same times a few hours later. I can see a difference between helping the UN when the security council recommends to take action and deceiving the UN under the hopes that the security council would take action then taking unilateral action when the UN decides that violence is not necessary.

I think what the UN is doing in Libya is defending people against being massacred. Now if bombs kill more civilians that were and would have been killed by ghadaffi then there is really no point.

[LWolf]

271. Which is preferrable?

Sarcasm, or a full-frontal assault? Which is more likely to make people defensive?

Try it out.

Nominating and electing Obama is the biggest mistake the Democratic Party has made in my lifetime (51 years,) and the people who elected him, and who continue to defend him, are not only hypocrites, they ARE the problem. If they had the courage to vote for people who would actually oppose conservatism, neoliberalism, and theocracy in this nation, the Democratic Party, and the nation, would be a hell of a lot healthier.

Excuses, like assholes: everyone's got them, and public viewing of them makes the party look silly, at the least, and pathetic, in my opinion.

[cali]

3. ugh. never thought much of her. still don't.

In addition to finding her dishonest (anyone who remember her "all wars are started by democrats" line?
she has to be one of the clunkiest writers out there.

[Monique1]

5. My opinion of her has changed

No longer respect Cindy - she is nothing but wanting attention.

[proud2BlibKansan]

10. How is she doing that?

Haven't seen her on any TV show in several years. She sends out emails once in awhile but doesn't post on any websites that are widely read, like this one. She also isn't in any newspapers anymore.

So please, do tell, how is she communicating to you that she wants attention?

[Aerows]

107. The Onion

It's ridiculous that so many fell for it.

[Turborama]

209. Eurasia Review isn't the Onion.

Although the article does read like a badly written Onion article.

[Balbus]

12. Yes. That's her point.

Your opinion changed when it was a democrat president starting wars and not a republican.

[proud2BlibKansan]

16. Bingo

Truth hurts.

[in_cog_ni_to]

19. Bingo 2. n/t

[bvar22]

28. Bingo 3.

Notice nobody is posting an objection or rebuttal to her observations,
only Ad Hominen attacks.

[Matariki]

90. What you said...

[tavalon]

139. I noticed but then I respect people who have good values and don't change

with the political wind, so I had nothing to say, except, I get where you're coming from, Cindy. It hurts. I know.

[russspeakeasy]

162. bingo 43...!

[Bluenorthwest]

244. Yes indeed.

[RufusTFirefly]

292. +100000

Speaks volumes, doesn't it?

[NYC Liberal]

35. Really..."democrat president"?

Also, yes, everything is exactly the same. The situation is exactly the same.

[Iwasthere]

185. "Democrat" President? REALLY??

It is DemocratIC President

[tomp]

213. proud to be in the 13% who oppose obama's policies. nt

[MH1]

40. "democrat" president???

Hmmm.

[Joe the Revelator]

41. That's a unfair assumption. Some of us support wars to end genocide no matter who is President.

[in_cog_ni_to]

59. Then you must support a war in Bahrain and Yemen.

Or does the fact they're our "friends" make that unnecessary?

[Joe the Revelator]

60. If there was evidence was as clear as it is in libya and the UN was resolute, than absolutely.

[Zhade]

67. Uh, they're shooting protesters dead. That clear enough for you?

NT!

[Joe the Revelator]

69. So you're in agreement that we should be in both Lybia and Baharain?

For the record the death toll in Lybia is 100 times larger then Yemen and Baharain.

[ClarkUSA]

122. Actually, the Shia opposition has agreed to talks w/the Bahrain gov't.

Also, no other ME leader has promised to commit a Rwanda-style genocide on the opposition rebels he calls "rats" to be exterminated.

[Mimosa]

197. Do you know that for a fact? How about first hand info?

BTW, some people with integrity, including Gandhi and Martin Luther King, espoused non-violence in the face of aggression.

I guess they're no longer good enough for anybody on D.U.?

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lorien]

88. Yep. Siding with the "team", not any particular set of beliefs. nt

[readmoreoften]

134. +1

[Name removed]

140. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bluebear]

98. I'm certain she loses sleep at night having lost your respect

[proud2BlibKansan]

6. And she's done far more to bring an end to war than anyone on any message board criticizing her

And for that, she will always have my respect.

[cali]

7. sorry, I think she's in it for herself.

[proud2BlibKansan]

14. Well I know her personally and know that is not true.

I also know that she really doesn't care what anonymous bloggers think of her. So your criticism is falling on deaf ears.

[cali]

32. I judge her by what she says and writes- and by the way no one pays attention to what she says

anymore so her crazed shit falls on deaf ears.

[RetroLounge]

144. Project much?

RL

[cali]

145. Nope.

[RetroLounge]

147. Amazing reply

You win the intertubes...



RL

[Name removed]

182. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[in_cog_ni_to]

She should be in it for herself. She lost her son over a war based on LIES.

She has every right to speak out against our wars. She paid the ultimate price.

[proud2BlibKansan]

22. Nothing will bring Casey back. Cindy has always made that very clear.

She's in it so other mothers don't have to go through her pain. I so admire that. I don't always agree with her but I deeply admire and respect her for speaking out.

[Bluerthanblue]

49. I admire her when she

does things which are admirable. She has every right to speak out- But that doesn't mean what she says is always admirable.

The fact that Casey died as he did, doesn't give her the right to do and say whatever she likes without question or criticism.

I believe she is most effective when she speaks clearly and consistently about why war is wrong.

Sarcasm, childish name calling and an inflated ego really do more harm than good.

This is an example of that. imo

[Vinnie From Indy]

73. I find a bit of irony in the fact that there is undoubtedly a mother in Libya

that will lose a son or sons if Gadaffi is allowed to subdue the rebels and carry out his stated "no mercy" policy.

In regard to Cindy's speaking out, she loses a great deal of credibility when she pens these rambling, immature rants.

[proud2BlibKansan]

74. Now there's a Libyan mother whose child will be killed with American weapons

[Vinnie From Indy]

79. Well, to be fair, everyone is getting killed with American weapons

Our weapons are everywhere. It really comes down to who is pulling the trigger, on whom and why.

[Cid_B]

96. Actually...

Her son paid the ultimate price and if he was anything like the vast majority of MY Soldiers... he is rolling over in his grave.

[proud2BlibKansan]

103. I'm certain he's applauding her

Casey was a deeply religious kid who only joined the military so his parents wouldn't have to pay for him to go to college. He wasn't at all a typical soldier so I'm sure he wasn't like any of your soldiers.

[Cid_B]

113. Guess we will never know...

but "Casey Sheehan's Sergeant asked for volunteers. Sheehan had just returned from Mass. After Sheehan volunteered once, the Sergeant asked Sheehan again if he wanted to go on the mission. According to many reports (and according to his own mother), Casey responded, "Where my Chief goes, I go."

He sure sounds like one of mine...

http://www.blackfive.net/main/2005/08/army_specialist.h...

[proud2BlibKansan]

116. Doesn't surprise me at all

Cindy has always said he was a team player and very loyal to the people closest to him.

[Name removed]

192. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jakes Progress]

160. Just how do you see that?

Did you camp out in the Texas heat for months? Did you try to start a meaningful protest to the illegal war?

What exactly did she get from this? Notoriety? You can get that by going on reality tv. She could have done anything simple to get notoriety, but she didn't.

I walked with her in Texas. Yep. She's tough. She speaks her mind. And she is consistent. Are those things that bother you in a woman?

[spooked911]

224. oh yeah-- she's getitng rich, being an anti-war activist

riiight

[KoKo]

347. You have no websites, disclosures of her bank accounts or ANYTHING ELSE to give Link To...

Why do you think anyone who has followed Sheehan from her first protest would EVER Listen to you?

Do I know who you work for? No.... And, if you can't give me links to verify that Sheehan is getting money (like the Banksters who brought down the US Economy) then why should ANYONE listen to you.

"Hollow Log"... Look it up on Google, my friend>

[lonestarnot]

273. What crap! Casey, did you forget about him?

[EstimatedProphet]

25. Really?

We don't have war anymore? I didn't know that! Thanks Cindy!

[chervilant]

193. Well, now,

what you put out into the universe will come back to you a hundredfold. Beware sarcasm; it is a bitter fruit.

[LiberalAndProud]

77. She fell out of favor when she had the temerity to criticize Democrats.

It's not about policy, it's about party.

[chervilant]

187. Because,

God knows, Democrats are a pure as the driven snow...

[QC]

229. Here's the answer.

Sheehan was a heroine here until she betrayed the team.

[KoKo]

359. ABSOLUTELY "proud2BlibKansan" and THANK YOU For SAYING IT!

[SidDithers]

18. Agreed...

though I thought that Camp Casey was an effective protest for a short time. Since then I've lost whatever respect I had.

Sid

[isuphighyeah]

82. She doesn't seem to consider that had she

done Camp Casey in Libya she probably would have been shot by some mercenary, rolled over by a tank or imprisoned and then god knows what else. Why can't people see the difference between Libya and Iraq? These people begged us for help. Qaddafi (I don't even know how to spell it anymore) blew up a plane full of American citizens, threatened to kill our president(Reagan)bombed a disco full of American soldiers and on and on. He's had a million opportunities to do the right thing. But he's a maniac. And you cannot reason with him. Is it so wrong that we (and some others) might help the rebels overthrow him so that they have a shot at democracy?
As far as oil, that whole region is full of oil. We get something like 5% of our oil from Libya. Any place that we would act in that region the argument could be made that we are there for the oil. I look at this as a product of the nightmare that was the Bush presidency. We have become so cynical (not without reason) that any step we take to help another country achieve a democratic way of life must have some ulterior motive. Qaddafi has been a boil on the backside of humanity for a long time. He's been given so much latitude that he thinks he is unstoppable. He is delusional. It may not play out in a nice neat way but out own struggle for freedom and democracy didn't either. It never has. I think there is a real movement underway to bring a freer, more democratic way of life to that part of they world. They are begging for it. They are dying for it. And I for one am willing to support it as long as we don't get away from the point, which is aiding the rebels in overthrowing the Qaddafi regime.

[Mimosa]

204. How do you know the CIA hasn't seeded this uprising?

Isuphighyeah, you only know what you read and hear on TV just like 99% of posters here. We were lied to by the US/Chalabi faction. It could be happening the same way right now.

[RetroLounge]

146. "...since she doesn't support Obama 100%

no matter what, like a good sheep."

There, I finished your sentence.



RL

[Hissyspit]

200. OH MY GOD

BAD WRITING!

Stop all anti-war activists now.

THEY ARE BAD WRITERS!!!!

[KoKo]

345. HER SON WAS KILLED IN IRAQ INVASION....! You are blessed with No Children

or have so much money that None of YOUR KIDS will ever fight in WARS for Empire! Good on You and Yours that you are ABOVE the REST of AMERICANS!

Regards,
koko

[KoKo]

358. Cali....were you in that Ditch in Texas confronting Chimp as he rode by in his Limo?

I'm sure you were here on DU in those days. Do you remember that Cindi was one of the first with Ann Wright to even QUESTION CHIMP about why we INVADED IRAQ?

You are saying you have no idea what she did to break open that Illegal War into the Mainstream Media? And the Internet was still young and we DEMS RULED.

Where were you?

[L. Coyote]

4. This is the jolt of reality many a Dem needs right now! Truth hurts, not?

EXCUSE: Invade Iraq to get rid of Saddam just in case some people might get killed in the future by WMD that might exist.
RESULT: Two million civilian deaths.

EXCUSE: Attack Libya to get rid of Qaddafi just in case some people might get killed in the future by actions that might ensue.
RESULT: Everything will be rosy, noone will get hurt, freedom will ring around the globe, oil prices will drop, democracy will blossom everywhere.

[in_cog_ni_to]

11. RESULT: Two million civilian deaths. AND WMD never existed.

[isuphighyeah]

86. Can you deny that Qaddafi is

slaughtering his own citizens en masse?

[L. Coyote]

110. Can you demonstrate that he is? The onus is not on the skeptics,

WTF, start a war whenever someone cannot disprove a falsehood??

[isuphighyeah]

120. More than 8,000 Libyan's aligned with the

More than 8,000 Libyan's aligned with the rebel movement have been killed, rebel spokesman Abdel Hafiz Ghoga tells Al Jazeera.

[sibelian]

112. Can you seriously propose that the West's response is even vaguely benign?

Are you suggesting that the same forces at work that brought about Iraq will not take advantage of this opportintiy to further *their* interests?

[russspeakeasy]

164. You can't say that for sure..We are still looking.

[SnoopDog]

8. Well written, Ms. Sheehan...

Most people on this site get exactly what you are saying...and agree with your message.

[KoKo]

356. Absolutely! +2,000!....She speaks truth to power.

[Balbus]

9. self-delete

[Thunderstruck]

13. Wow, look at the Cindy haters suddenly poking up their heads after all these years.

[proud2BlibKansan]

20. Oh they come out of the woodwork every time anyone posts anything she writes

I don't even bother to post her stuff here anymore. Too many armchair quarterbacks.

[NorthCarolina]

68. I find it amusing how predictable the names of those posters here on DU are. nt

[Donald Ian Rankin]

301. You think that DUers should randomly select a new opinion every time they post? N.T.

[The Doctor.]

23. And who would those be?

It seems DU is unanimous in it's sympathy for Mrs. Sheehan. If you're suggesting that any critique of her represents 'hatred', then you should probably brush up on your Merriam-Webster definitions.

I'm sure you're not really suggesting that any earnest DUers 'hate' her.

[Thunderstruck]

37. Of course not, it's a figure of speech. However, this has usually been friendly

territory to Cindy Sheehan, whom I have personally spent time with. But that was when she was being a pain in bush's ass. Now that she's criticizing President Obama, she's suddenly persona non grata.

I think that's wrong. Her ideas have not changed.

[The Doctor.]

51. I don't disagree.

She has the right to criticize Obama, and I'm sure that I agree with her more often than not. It's just that, in this case, the situation is very different.

[StarburstClock]

169. Who would that be? LOL

It's against the rules to post a list that long.

[Joe the Revelator]

42. Shocked that not everyone agrees with you?

[Thunderstruck]

48. Nope. Not one bit. Cindy was a universal hero here when she dogged bush.

But now that she is criticizing President Obama, suddenly she's a universal hero here --- not so much.

[Joe the Revelator]

50. That's not true at all. There was a point after camp Casey where cindys ego got out of control, and

A lot of us called her on it. I was here when it happened.

[ReggieVeggie]

220. what is this thing with Democrats and anyone who disagrees is an egomaniac

a little projection perhaps?

[Bodhi BloodWave]

55. she was an universal hero on DU until she started going a tad overboard

somebody else has already mentioned her '"all wars are started by democrats' line which is an obvious lie.

[Thunderstruck]

64. Was part of this going overboard have anything to do with people being

pissed that she would challenge Nancy Pelosi's seat? Or what was it specifically that got her off the rails with some here?

[Bodhi BloodWave]

71. I can't read the minds of others but her running for pelosi's seat didn't influence my view of her

Cindy had just as much a right to run for the seat as anybody else after all, I personally(who is really the only person I can speak for) started to lose my respect for her when she started exaggerating things and lying.

[proud2BlibKansan]

76. It all started when she lobbied Pelosi to impeach Bush

Pelosi said no. Cindy decided to run against her. The 'Democrats can do no wrong' crowd turned on Cindy when she demanded Pelosi impeach Bush.

[Confusious]

191. I could have cared less if she ran

This little spiel on the other hand is just bullshit.

[cali]

57. bzzzzt. I suggest you look at threads from the bush years

re Cindy or posting something she'd written. I've long held her in low regard.

[Thunderstruck]

61. Well, having spent time with her, I guess I understand better than some

where she comes from.

I respect your opinion though, Cali, even if I don't quite understand it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

81. Yes you have.

On that we can agree.

[Bluerthanblue]

78. you are wrong-

I was here. You might want to check the archives.

[proud2BlibKansan]

85. I was here too. There was overwhelming support here when Cindy was at Camp Casey.

I remember well being at Camp Casey and reading multiple threads here that completely supported Cindy.

That was 2005 and 2006. The criticism here started after the Dems took Congress in 2006 and Pelosi refused to impeach Bush. That following spring - 2007 - Cindy announced she was running against Pelosi and all hell broke loose here and in the Democratic party. And just like the Dean scream was used to label him as crazy, Cindy was labeled as well.

I remember it very well.

[Bluerthanblue]

97. I have supported Cindy

in many a discussion here on DU-

But the statement made which I replied to :

"But now that she is criticizing President Obama, suddenly she's a universal hero here --- not so much." is flat out wrong.

Unfortunately support for Cindy fell off long before President Obama took office.

You obviously know that as well. But Thunderstruck didn't seem to.

[Thunderstruck]

117. I was at Camp Casey too, proud =)

Right after Cindy got back from Jordan I was among the first people to see her upon her arrival to Camp Casey. Another was a New York Times reporter who came to interview her about her trip. She told us of her trip and that she had just come from the hospital after a checkup to do with her hunger strike during that time.

I had the honor of becoming fast friends with Cindy and DeDe, though DeDe and I were previously aquainted by phone and email. She is remarkably humble yet fiercely determined. Though I cannot completely understand her pain I do think I understand her resolve. I was proud to march at her side against and protest of the traitor bush.

[proud2BlibKansan]

123. It was one of the best things I have ever done in my life

I made many wonderful friends who I still talk to via email or Facebook every day.

Cindy is a shero and I greatly admire her for what she did and how she continues to speak out.

Love DeDe.

I've really enjoyed seeing pictures and reading reports from Wisconsin. Brings back lots of wonderful memories of being part of a movement - a people powered movement. Yes, this is what Democracy looks like.

[sibelian]

114. Grotesque, isn't it?

It's difficult to know what to say.

[rpannier]

218. That's not true

She began losing people when she went after Nancy Pelosi and other House Democrats in 2007.
She ran against Pelosi -- though no one really noticed

[Name removed]

243. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DevonRex]

87. Talking about duers rather than issues is against the rules.

[Bluenorthwest]

254. For some posters it is

Seemingly not for others.

[DevonRex]

267. This subthread makes it very, very obvious, doesn't it? nt

[Bluerthanblue]

15. grief is a terrible experience.

I'm sorry Casey died.

I'm sad to see how she uses her voice sometimes. This is one of them.

[The Doctor.]

17. If people cannot see the VERY clear distinctions between this and Iraq,

then I really haven't much to say to them.

Will the MIC make some cash off of this? Sure, but nowhere near what they've made off of Iraq/Afghanistan.

Saddam was not actively bombing the living fuck out of his own people. We went into Iraq to satify the voracious MIC and misguided PNAC.

Anyone who doesn't know what that is is barely qualified to comment on these matters. Perhaps Mrs. Sheehan isn't so apprised, so I'll give her the BotD.

[in_cog_ni_to]

26. Hey, Doc...did you sacrifice YOUR child in that war that was based on LIES? Cindy did. n/t

[cali]

39. do you even know what the word sacrifice means?

not to mention that he wasn't hers to sacrifice. She lost her son to a war based on lies

[Joe the Revelator]

44. You need to be careful who you ask that question of.....

you have no idea the life stories of those you're talking to.

[The Doctor.]

47. Yes, of course... only those deemed 'qualified' can disagree with Cindy. Gotcha.

Sorry, but that bullshit doesn't work on me.

She has every right to be against anything she wants to. I don't and will not disagree that war is a terrible wrong.

What you, and apparently Cindy, fail to understand is that there are MANY mothers who are losing their sons to a dictator. Right now, and in real time. Without our help, they will lose many more sons.

Right now, there are many women in Libya who are more than qualified to disagree with Cindy and ask for our help.

Like I said, if you can't see the glaring differences between Libya and Iraq, it's pointless to carry on a discussion.

[PatSeg]

108. I have to agree with you

I'm quite sure that the Obama/Biden administration didn't begin with the intention of finding a reason to invade Libya. Iraq and Libya are very different. I cannot see any reasonable comparison.

As for Cindy, there are times when I agree with her and times when I don't, but I can say that about many people. She raises some interesting points which can spark a constructive debate, but quite honestly I can't agree with her.

[rucognizant]

217. What about Americans who are dying off daily?

DOES ANYONE CARE ABOUT THEM? Last time I looked Libya was not a territory of the USA.
I thought the article was a well written piece of satire....................& of course she is p----d off.IT HAS BEEN 8 LONG YEARS GETTING MORE RIDICULOUS EVERY DAY!
I DID NOT LOSE my son in a useless self serving war, I am just a nobody out here on the sticks.........
But I marched against invading Iraq in 2002, been very active politically, fat lot of good it did..............
8 years later I am in a fury and also a stall, giving up on doing anything, .........because the MAJORITY does GET IT, and would rather sit here in PJ's and argue, get in a huff, turn literary critic, defend their celebrity of choice or WHATEVER...............
NOTHING IS GOING TO CHANGE!

[quakerboy]

125. How do you know?

Perhaps I misrecall, but in my memory they tried to sell us that Iraq was going to be a quick easy victory. Kick out the evil Saddam, brush the dust off, set the country up right, good deed done and the world will love us.

Saddam had in the past actively bombed the living fuck out of his people. The main difference there appears to me to be timing.

I think there may be different motivations involved this time, and part of me cheered internally when the decision to engage was announced. But as long as I live, I will always be suspicious of the motives of any politician or group of politicians who thinks its necessary to engage another country in war. Some will be as justified as such things can be. But I will question the motives. Each and every time.

[The Doctor.]

305. You need to do some research;

Start here;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_Americ...

Pay extra-special attention to this;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_Americ...

The invasion of Iraq was undeniably the result of years of planning by these guys;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_Americ...

(See if you recognize anyone)

... That's how I know.


If you already know all this, that's fine. Point is; the differences are very stark and there are no direct lines of interest to people in the administration. Saying that it's a matter of 'timing' is accurate in that the difference in 'timing' between Iraq and Libya proves that the motives are different. It's just plain ridiculous to suggest that using past actions to justify an invasion is in any way the same as responding to real-time atrocities.

No, these are very, very different situations.

[quakerboy]

373. Ive read all of that.

Its very handy to look at Iraq in retrospect and say what a bad idea that was, how much it has cost us. Some of us, possibly you included, were dead set against it to start with, however. But your very links show me that the differences are not that stark, but merely a matter of timing, as I stated before.

You may recall we started in Iraq long before we got rid of Saddam. First there was GW1, because we had to protect all the others oil producing nations from the immediate Iraqi danger in 1990. This gave us the Immediate excuse to invade and start the battle. This was followed by a long no fly zone semi occupation, which gave us the foothold to stay active there until they could get GW2 going.

Now a question for you. Do you think that the power players behind PNAC have completed all their goals, spent their load, happy with their accomplishments, ready for peace? Particularly as the American people look more and more for an end in Iraq and in Afghanistan, wouldn't their promotion of "American 'hegemony' and 'full-spectrum' dominance" demand further war?

And if you get the same answers to those questions that I do (no and yes), do you believe that they have been fully flushed out of the government power structure and decision making processes?

So. When we hand off Libya and prove we are not going to be sticking around for 10 years, followed by an invasion the second the PNAC crew get their hands back on some power, then I will admit you were right, and that my skepticism was misfounded in this case.

[midnight]

21. How else does one respond to a man who campaigned in a

such a way as to give the idea that bushes wars were stupid. But now that he is in office, he is spreading them ever further and wider? She has spoken with great sanity and clarity about this topic trying to wake the rest of us up. Unfortunately we have chosen to dissect the tone, context and style of her message.... Now she is just going to come to the sleeping and propose that perhaps now that war is happening on Obama's watch that it must be ok. She is of course, appealing, to our greater capacity to see this for what it is-WRONG.... The war is a lie, and keeping the lie going under Obama is wrong....

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Joe the Revelator]

38. Thank you. So many revisionists on this board.

[speltwon]

72. He didn't say that

That's revisionist history. He said the Iraq War was being poorly executed AND was fought for the wrong reasons. He supported the Afghanistan war, just thought it could be executed better. Furthermore, as for Hillary, she never never never admitted (despite being asked this question more than once) that she was wrong to vote for the AUMF.

[midnight]

234. I was not aware of that particular quote.... Do you have a link?

[BobbyBoring]

326. That's kind of what I thought

All our wars are Obamas now. I will be shocked if we don't have boots on the ground within a month.

[LAGC]

24. I wish she would have beat Nancy Pelosi.

We might have actually been able to impeach Bush for war crimes instead of Pelosi immediately taking it off the table.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Doctor.]

43. I share the sentiment. But while I too entertain the notion

that she would have ridden in like gangbusters and made congress floor investigations and impeachment resolutions, the reality is that the established and well-entrenched political machine would likely have chewed her agenda up and spit it into space. Don't forget, they'd have had the help of the M$M as well.

I know that she would fight, but I just think she'd be so entirely out of her element to be ineffective.

[Ikonoklast]

89. How, exactly, would that scenario evolved?

By beating Pelosi, do you think Sheehan would automatically become Speaker?

She would have been just another freshman congressman with no seniority.

[Joe the Revelator]

27. Cindy jumped the shark a long time ago. Her movement became more about Cindy and less about opposing

war.

[in_cog_ni_to]

34. Tell us... exactly, how many kids have YOU lost to wars based on LIES? n/t

[Joe the Revelator]

36. I feel for her because she lost her son, however that doesn't give her a free pass when her ego goes

Out of control.

Also, be careful who you ask that question to. You know nothing about me.

[in_cog_ni_to]

53. I know all I need to know about you. n/t

[Joe the Revelator]

56. What does that even mean?

[in_cog_ni_to]

62. Exactly what it says. n/t

[Joe the Revelator]

66. Well, at the very least, the feeling is mutual. Let me know if you ever want to join the rest of us

In the real world.

[in_cog_ni_to]

80. LOl....

[GillesDeleuze]

276. and... ignored.

[Union Scribe]

118. These lazy chickenhawks would never sacrifice anything themselves

But they're more than happy sacrificing Cindy's son and everyone else's.

[Confusious]

194. I lost a great grandfather in WW1

Does that give me a right to speak?

My grandfather and great-uncle served in WW2. Does that give me a right to speak?

My great uncle served in Korea. Does that give me a right to speak?

My father served in Vietnam. Does that give me right to speak?

My brother served in the first gulf war. Does that give me right to speak?



How many children did you sacrifice for a war that was based on LIES? If it's zero, then the right to speak is reserved for those who agree with her.

Which is bullshit.

[wildbilln864]

30. k&r for truth! nt

[Azathoth]

31. It's sad what has happened to Cindy Sheehan n/t

[Bluebear]

99. It sure is, losing a son to war nt

[Azathoth]

102. First her son, then her mind. Very sad n/t

[Bluebear]

130. you're the sad one. /ignore

bleah

[NYC Liberal]

46. Sigh...unrec. nt

[tritsofme]

52. Who cares what this crazed woman has to say?

[The Doctor.]

54. That's a bit out of line.

She's channeled her grief on a bigger issue, and whether one agrees with her or not, she is doing what she believes is right. That's not necessarily 'crazed'.

[speltwon]

121. i have to agree with this here

I can agree or disagree with her on any # of issues. It does not mean that there is any rational basis for me, or anyone to refer to her as "crazed", "crazy" etc. She is impassioned, sometimes woefully uninformed, and prone to sweeping generalizations that distort reality (Democrats have NOT started all wars).

But I see no reason for questioning her mental health. It's an offensive slam

[QC]

133. Bush's fans used to accuse everyone who disagreed with him of being crazy.

It's amazing--and more than a little creepy--to see how many Bushevik talking points and habits of mind are being recycled lately.

[bvar22]

250. I agree on the "creepy".

All the old Pro-WAR talking points from the Bush era are being recycled.

Those who don't support the new WAR are "crazy" or somehow "support Saddam (insert Gaddifi)".
"This isn't the US action...it a "coalition"!

Did you see Obama's Presser over the weekend?....veeerrry creepy.
You could have pasted Bush the Lesser's face over Obama as he sold the WAR to America using the same PNAC talking points.....
nothing has changed.


very, VERY CREEPY.......creepy Deja Vu all over again.

Its like watching an old Horror Movie in a Haunted House as the hero starts up the stairs.
Those who have seen this movie before are screaming "Don't open that door",
but he does anyway and lets the monster out....AGAIN!

[The Doctor.]

306. Nonsense. It's ridiculous to try to equate this to the illegal invasion of Iraq.

Be against it, that's fine. But don't pretend it's the same as Iraq. That really is ridiculous and deliberately ignorant of the facts.

[bvar22]

312. Rediculous?

I'm glad to see that there are elected Democrats who agree with Cindy (and me).

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2011/03/20-1

[The Doctor.]

318. No, 'bluediculous'.

Like I said; The opinion that it's wrong is valid. The opinion that it's the same as Iraq is ignorant of the facts.

It really is that simple, and I can demonstrate it very easily.

[sibelian]

115. Some numbers of us, it seems. Perhaps you can address the content of her statements...

... rather than the fact that she speaks.

[mmonk]

58. Wars are often viewed in the personalities that govern.

I would say probably most. When was the last really defensive war concerning the US? In other words, defense?

[tabasco]

65. She has a right to her opinion

Is she getting paid to write this tripe?

[isuphighyeah]

75. Sigh...n/t

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

83. I hope she gets the help she needs (n/m)

[Bluebear]

100. So you support torture and keeping Gitmo open?

[GillesDeleuze]

280. so you support raping children?

your last post didn't mention it so i wanted to be sure

[KoKo]

355. You say that...but what are your Democratic Activism Credentials to speak about her?

You joined in '04...

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

84. Yep. Bush wars = bad. Obama wars = Hail to the Chief

[cali]

92. I'm against the Libya crap. still have no use for Sheehan.

[Octafish]

336. She doesn't exist to be used by you.

Disagree with her, great. Don't demean her.

[Matariki]

91. Man, did the military already implement that sock puppet army?

or what?

[LostInAnomie]

93. Isn't it time we stop pretending that her son dying gives her any authority on anything?

Seriously, shouldn't the whole "Democrats are the party of slavery and started all wars" thing been enough to make us question if she's actually someone we should listen to?

[JonLP24]

94. Against indefinite detention?

She lost it. How could you possibly be against that?

K&R

[snappyturtle]

95. I don't get it. Cindy is re-stating points that have been brought up here

hundreds of times. She is saying them within a different framework is all. K&R for Cindy.

[slay]

109. Yeah I'm pretty shocked at all the hostility displayed in this thread towards her -a mother who lost

her son to a pointless war. Wars which Obama continue today. she's just realizing, like so many of us have, that it's not just Bush that was the problem, and not just the republicans but the democrats too.

and i am DEEPLY embarrassed and ashamed of DU's attacks on her in this thread. i think i'm going to step away from DU for a bit. i see no need for such hostility - especially against a poor woman who has had her whole world destroyed by our shitty government. shame on every DU'er talking bad about her! what about compassion - it used to be a progressive value.

[Jakes Progress]

128. But, but. She doesn't love Obama. She must be crazy. Oh. And hated too.

Many so called Democrats lack a moral center. It moves about to center on what Obama does.

[Bluerthanblue]

149. bullshit-

who is making this about Obama?

Right now, it's YOU.

[Jakes Progress]

157. Oh, yeah. Her complaints about Obama have nothing to do with this.

So. You don't like her because.... why? She's a woman? She's a tough woman? She's anti-war? She came the closest to rallying a protest to bush's illegal war? She won't sit down and shut up?

Which of those is it?

Yeah. I call bullshit too.

[Bluerthanblue]

158. show me where I have ever said I don't like her?

do a search in the archives- you'll find out quite the opposite.

[Jakes Progress]

161. So you do admire her? How do you feel about what she says in the OP?

Why do you think that her unpopularity reflected by some here have nothing to do with her complaints about Obama? Why do you think those people hate her so much.

If you do appreciate her words and her efforts, then I apologize. You just seemed so intent on deflecting what I see as the main reason that people dislike her. Maybe you could offer other reasons that a protester of bush's war would receive such scathing attacks here on DU. Share?

[cali]

283. Why don't I like her? Part of it is a gut thing. I don't like her sanctimony

I don't like her simplistic take on almost everything. I don't like the nonsense she uttered about how all wars were started by democratic presidents.

[Jakes Progress]

299. In the words of Inigo Montoya

Sanctimony? "I do not think it means what you think it means."

Are you accusing her of pretending to be against the war? Do you think she was secretly working to extend the war and camping out in hundred degree heat was her way of furthering bush's war?

Or perhaps you would offer that she was hypocritical. How so? She spent months trying to rally Americans against an illegal war. Did she then turn around and say she loved the war? Now. Hypocritical would be someone who attacked bush and protested the war, but then decided that it was okay to stay for a few thousand more lives as long as it was a charismatic Democrat who was waging the war. Not that would fit your definition of sanctimony.

But it doesn't fit Cindy Sheehan. Hmmm. Could we maybe think of someone that it does apply to. You know, someone who thinks that tax cuts for the wealthy and illegal wars are bad when republicans do it, but totally cool when our guy does it. I wonder if we could think of someone who does that.

Calling her position simplistic is just a dodge used to say that things have changed now that Obama is waging the war, that it was simple when bush did it, but so very complicated and tricky now. (See definition of this behavior in above paragraph.)

[cali]

311. oh, I'm confident I know what it means. Not so sure that you do.

it can mean- and this is the sense that I was using it in- holier than thou.

And yeah, I don't think she's terribly bright.

[Jakes Progress]

323. Look it up. You are wrong.

But, you don't think she is bright. I have met and talked with Cindy. I have written exchanges with you. She is brighter than you.

Now that you continue the ad hominem attacks since you have no basis for your prejudice, would you like to actually address the issues of the OP? How about responding to any of the questions I asked? Could you address any issue other than your animas toward Cindy. Did you support the war in Iraq and Afghanistan when bush was president? Do you support Obama's extension of wars? Do you find that consistent? If so. How?

You seem to not like it because she is holier than thou. Well. She is holier than you. She is also committed to people and issues. You seem to be committed only to spite and bile and polishing Obama's image. The latter is going a long way toward derailing what should have been a promising term in office.

[NYC Liberal]

211. Her losing a son does not make her correct on every issue

about which she speaks, nor does it immunize her from criticism for her opinions. She isn't talking about losing her son here, she's opining on a current event--just like everyone else.

[slay]

332. What??? I'm talking about the DU'ers here saying "Fuck her"

odd that you feel the need to defend Obama even in this situation. Go ahead - reply to me - say "Fuck her".

You know good and well i wasn't talking about criticism. However, since you bring it up - It's the "defend Obama at all costs" people like you that have helped convince me we need someone to run against that corporate suck up in the 2012 primaries.

[swilton]

101. K&R

Glad she's still out there telling it like it is!

[Aerows]

104. Was this from the Onion?

[Union Scribe]

119. Posting that three times doesn't make it any more funny.

If your joke bombed harder Obama would throw it at an Arab country.

[Karmadillo]

124. +1

nt

[inna]

148. LOL! +2

[JVS]

168. +1

[Starry Messenger]

230. +3

[Bluebear]

131. how many times for this lame 'joke'?

[unkachuck]

132. I love you, Cindy....

"...it would have been wrong—but now it’s 'compassionate.'"

....and I basically agree with you....but I honestly believe, that along with the Western corporations, the Libyan people will benefit from an opportunity to try and form a democracy....maybe they will, maybe they won't, but they should be given a chance....

....I had to come down on the side of the Libyan people....power to the people....

[KoKo]

152. Yep...Me Too......And, I'm proud to say it.

[DeSwiss]

141. K&R n/t

[geek tragedy]

142. Sheehan is a LaRouchie nutjob. Fuck her. nt

[KoKo]

154. "Fuck Her?" Well that says more about where you come from than where Sheehan does....

GROSS! "Fuck Her." Yeah..bet you yell that at all your partners or whoever.

[slay]

174. +1

i wrote a post a ways up in this thread about the odd hostility towards Cindy Sheehan by DU members in this thread. i don't get it. disagree with her - sure. but the poor lady's whole life was turned upside down by our shitty government. Compassion USED to be a progressive value i guess.

[StarburstClock]

170. Care to back that up?

Give some examples.

[geek tragedy]

176. She thinks the income tax is unconstitutional.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/07/09/355512/-Cindy-...

I was a life-long Democrat only because the choices were limited. The Democrats are the party of slavery and were the party that started every war in the 20th Century except the other Bush debacle. The Federal Reserve, permanent federal (and unconstitutional) income taxes, Japanese Concentration Camps and, not one, but two atom bombs dropped on the innocent citizens of Japan were brought to us via the Democrats. Don’t tell me the Democrats are our “Saviors” because I am not buying it especially after they bought and purchased more caskets and more devastating pain when they financed and co-facilitated more of George’s abysmal occupation and they are allowing a melt down of our representative Republic by allowing the evils of the executive branch to continue unrestrained by their silent complicity. Good change has happened during Democratic regimes, but as in the civil rights and union movements, the positive changes occurred because of the people not the politicians.

[Confusious]

196. I don't remember starting WW1

or WW2, or Korea. We got involved, yes.

Maybe 20 years of reading history and history books are wrong.

[geek tragedy]

342. Not all stupid people are conservatives. nt

[Vinnie From Indy]

363. One thing is crystal clear!

Sheehan hates periods. Some Sheehan supporter should offer to edit her work.

[liberation]

156. Some of the replies in this thread would give FR circa 2004 a run for its money

The more things change...

[Recovered Repug]

166. The views on Cindy Sheehan seemed to change in 2006

when the Democrats took control of Congress. It seems that Cindy was foolish enough to expect the Democrats to do things differently. Now she's "crazy". Maybe her "sanity" will be restored if Obama loses in '12?

[slay]

175. Sad but true

i've had to comment on the hostility toward cindy sheehan in this thread multiple times. i'm pretty shocked by it.

[Toucano]

181. +1

Political parties are just social clicks these days. No one expects you to actually STAND for something.

[ProgressIn2008]

159. K&R for Cindy Sheehan. nt

[orbitalman]

163. K & R

[HR_Pufnstuf]

167. Both parties have been co-opted by the banksters.

Its time to start looking for a good primary candidate for 2012 imho.

[countmyvote4real]

171. Bravo Cindy Sheehan

The Obama Administration has been a very bitter pill for those that expected "change we can believe in." Let’s be honest. Not much has changed from the policies of the * administration.

[AllTooEasy]

178. If she's against war, then tell Qaddafi to stop waging one against his people

Why is it that America is only country that can't wage war? Qaddafi does it and not a word out of her mouth! Innocents die at his hand, not a peep out of her.

American Moms see their sons die in wars, BAD.

Non-American mothers see their sons die in a war, tortured, masicured, victims of genocide - let's just look the other way. Huh?

[countmyvote4real]

184. Too cool for school.

There is a right to wage war? Really? And the US is somehow improperly categorized for waging war against Vietnam, Grenada, Iraq, Serbia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, etc. And now you profess to cry tears for Libya so they can suffer our bombs? Really? You really need to take a caution pill. Really.

[Hissyspit]

202. You sound like my right-wing dad.

"All they ever do is criticize America!"

"Um, no they don't, Dad. And, even if so, how does that justify our actions."

[KoKo]

350. Sounds like Thanksgiving in my RW Southern Christian Household!

LOL's....Oh My.....how hard it all goes down!

[Bozita]

183. another round of bomb-a-rama

[HEyHEY]

186. You'd think a woman who'd lost a child would feel empathy for others losing theirs

En masse in Libya. Guess not.

[Bluebear]

190. No, she's a real cold fish, isn't she?

Whatever.

[HEyHEY]

225. I just think it's sad that she lectures people on the loss of her son

But is perfectly okay with others losing their children by inaction. This isn't Iraq, this isn't the USA going somewhere and starting a fight. This is intervention.

[Mimosa]

198. Insane post. Those who lose children to violence aren't the ones who support circle of violence.

BTW, some people with integrity, including Gandhi and Martin Luther King, espoused non-violence in the face of aggression.

I guess they're no longer good enough for anybody on D.U.?

BTW, the US is bombing the hell out of Tripoli as I post.

Bluebear, if not for you and a couple of others, I'd be thinking I was posting on 'comments' at Lucianne. com. Thank you for being consistent, smart and honourable. *hug*

[HEyHEY]

221. Hey, lots of people who opposed violence have been butchered too, alright.

Spare me the Gahndi talk, even then you're asking OTHER people to put up with being massacred.

[mythology]

298. Um

Gandhi encouraged Indians to join the World War 1 effort including as soldiers and his primary reason for not doing the same in World War 2 was that England was fighting for democracy against Germany while resisting giving it to India.

While Martin Luther King didn't encourage violence, the Civil Rights movement certainly benefited greatly from the economic gains blacks made during World War 2, particularly the G.I. Bill and the integration of the military.

[Hissyspit]

201. Oh, good god.

Straight out of the logic-out-the-window right-wing smear playbook.

[HEyHEY]

223. Logic? Talk to people who have been affected by this kind of shit. I Have

Logic doesn't exist in many places. I wish it did. You think I get a kick out this? I don't. But I'd rather be called a war-monger than someone who is indifferent to the murder of others.

[wial]

195. One wonders if Nobel Prizes

can be rescinded.

[LWolf]

269. I wondered if a Nobel Peace Prize was worth anything

when it was awarded to a hawk. What's the point? He was a hawk then, a hawk now, and awarding him a "peace" prize was ridiculous.

[Name removed]

206. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[indimuse]

207. We need to STOP this INSANITY!

"Killing For Peace!" Some of us know what's really goin on..this NOTHING to do with helping others..

[McCamy Taylor]

208. When the "peace candidate" starts more wars of choice, we all have to worry.

[Modern_Matthew]

215. Well said, Cindy. Now if we could only eradicate the Democratic Party of these warmongers. nt

[quaker bill]

216. The war in Iraq did not exist

until we created it. The war in Libya existed. There is a difference.

[Name removed]

222. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[spooked911]

226. IMO, she nailed it

and here's another reason for people here to hate her:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GSqZ6YUCiQ
"I do think 9/11 was an inside job"

[JNelson6563]

228. Not her most flattering schtick

Of course so few can properly pull off "sarastic bitch" schtick and look good doing it.

Julie

[Township75]

233. She was great when Bush was president, but now we don't really have a use for her.

So let's just label her as the crazy insane lunatic whacko person that she is....but let us always comment about the great person she WAS when Bush was president.

[cali]

238. that's a myth. didn't have a use for her while bush was prez and neither did

a lot of folks here.

[Township75]

251. Were you here when people were posting pictures of their time at

Camp Cindee? Near Bush's home in Crawford? We loved her then....THEN!!!!!!!

[KoKo]

354. I was here at that time...Will Pitt was it the "ditch" in Crawford..and we DU'ers saw her as Hero!

How times change. Bunches of DU'ers sent Helen Thomas THOUSANDS OF ROSES... Now Cindi and Helen are pariahs here on DU. What has changed? You tell me... Whatever it is it's not a good thing, imho.

[Township75]

370. What has changed is...

that they are attacking us, not people on the right. Therefore we don't have a use for them.

To me this just shows plenty of people on the left don't care about war and human rights unless they can use it against a republican (like Bush).

Otherwise, places like Gitmo are inconvenient, but not really worth getting in a tizzy over.

[bvar22]

259. OTOH, I DID "have a use for her ."

Cindy was extremely valuable to those of us who opposed the WARS.
I was very glad that Cindy's personal efforts landed her on the National Stage and let The World know that not every American supported Bush's madness.

I participated in MANY protests (some in Minneapolis with 10s of thousands) that went IGNORED by The Media.
The false picture presented to The World by our Media was that America was unified behind Bush/Blair.
(I had a brother who was overseas (Nepal), and he phoned wanting to know why there were no protests.)
Cindy was one of the very few protests that was able to break through the media WALL of Silence.
She was able to get almost daily coverage, and let The World know that there were Americans who opposed the WARS.
(The Right Wing was calling her "crazy" then too.)

Thank You, Cindy,
for ALL your sacrifices,
especially for the months you spent in a ditch in Texas.
If 1/100th of the keyboard activists (myself included) were willing to do what you have done,
we could actually "CHANGE" something.

[cali]

268. I opposed the wars. And though I think she was initially useful

she swiftly became distinctly less than useful.

[bvar22]

287. In your opinion...

"she swiftly became distinctly less than useful."

She just PROVED her continuing usefulness by pointing out the madness behind expanding the WARS in the Middle East.
If she wasn't "useful" this thread would not exist,
nor would it have gotten over 125 recs.

I am kicking this for more exposure, and sending it to some US outlets.
Hopefully, it will be picked up by a more mainstream outlet here at home.

[cali]

291. no she didn't. who does she reach? no one but a very few

people who already agree with her. rec on du are indicative of very little. I'd argue that she turns off far more people than she rallies- actually, she's pretty irrelevant. Her words and actions are not reported. And that's not a bad thing. Her rhetoric is incendiary, not persuasive.

[bvar22]

296. Everytime you kick this thread,

Cindy reaches more people.
Cindy & I thank you.

[cali]

303. lol. yeah. like her rant is going to have any influence outside of DU.

you are funny.

[bvar22]

317. Well, Cali...

If you really believed that,
you wouldn't be working so hard in this thread attacking Cindy and those who are glad she is speaking out.

People spend time on things they believe are important,
and judging by the quantity and toxicity of your posts in this thread,
you believe that marginalizing Cindy on DU is VERY important.

[cali]

337. it's silly to try and ascribe motives to people when you really have no way of knowing

And it's still winter here. And snowing again. Might as well post. Only take a minute or so for each post. And c'mon, you must know she marginalized herself years ago.

[bvar22]

353. Oh come on....Its EASY.

When somebody is working as hard as YOU are working in this thread,
it is something important to them.

None (zero) of your posts attempts to rebut anything Cindy has ever SAID or DONE.
Every single post of yours is a personal attack on Cindy.
That also makes it EASY to determine motive.....Discredit the Messenger.

QED

[KoKo]

361. So, Cali...it's "who is useful to you..and who is not?" Is that what you judge people on?

OMG!

[cali]

367. uh, no. I was referring to who or what is useful to the anti-war cause.

[KoKo]

344. I deal with many disturbed people in my daily work. Your Post is SO BIZARRE...it

really makes me want to send you some Google Links to articles by Intelligent Persons...so that your brain might understand what went on after "9/11" that isn't the sites you read or watch...so you could be informed.

Peace to You... It's very "Woo Woo!"

[no limit]

235. And another one goes under the bus.

[walldude]

236. I wonder how many of the people who seem to "hate"

Cindy lost a child in an illegal war. I wonder how many judging her are her "peers".

I can only imagine the pain she suffers daily and the burning need to see no more innocent people die. Yeah what a crazy bitch.


I have avoided DU for a week, I think it's time to make it permanent. This is disgusting.

[Hotler]

275. The hate on DU these days sure is deep. n/t

[OwnedByFerrets]

239. Applause!!

[Name removed]

240. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Le Taz Hot]

245. K & R for Cindy.

As always, she speaks the truth.

[peace13]

252. Cindy I feel your pain.

Endless war and torture....not something that I want to be a part of. Can Obama really turn a blind eye to this. There will always be those few of us who stood up against the wars and stood for the troops. If only others in our country would stand and speak with us.

[LWolf]

258. Thank you, Cindy, for the voice of integrity. nt

[KoKo]

360. "INTEGRITY!" A long forgotten word...but it means so much in relationships...

we need to bring that back...Cindy has Integrity. It's in short supply these days.

Thank you for mentioning it.

[LWolf]

372. You're welcome.

[bvar22]

264. I am glad to see that Cindy can still get over 125 recs on DU.

I'm still in the right place.


Thank You, Cindy.

[proud2BlibKansan]

285. I was just getting ready to post that

[RufusTFirefly]

270. K & R!

Disturbing troll posts, be damned!

[Octafish]

279. When it comes to war, I stand with Cindy Sheehan.

There was an alternative. As has become this nation's custom, it was not pursued.

[GillesDeleuze]

282. FOR THOSE INTERESTED IN A REAL CRITIQUE, TRY JOHN NICHOLS

http://host.madison.com/ct/news/opinion/editorial/artic...

[Name removed]

286. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

289. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Arkana]

288. She couldn't make her point without sounding angry, bitter, and insulting?

[cali]

293. And that's why her rhetoric is a spectaculor dud

[Union Scribe]

321. "Pretty please stop waging ridiculous wars" doesn't seem to be working.

She has every right on this fucking earth to be angry and bitter. And insulting? Boo hoo. People who send others to die for their vainglorious pursuits don't get to have hurt feelings over being called names. Fuck them.

[Arkana]

341. Who are we sending to die?

There are no ground troops in Libya. Perhaps Cindy should have done her research first.

[raouldukelives]

294. K&R

[FormerDittoHead]

295. What's this? Is she trying to be sarcastic?

Be warned, you're now about to enter the nth level of ...

[Jamastiene]

297. Kick

[Donald Ian Rankin]

300. You can tell she's wrong - and sloganeering rather than thinking - from the very first sentence.

"I used to be against ALL wars and the use of violence".

That's not a position worthy of respect, because my family would have died in the holocaust as a result of it.

Most wars are not justifiable, a few are. Attacking Libya may well not be, but Sheehan appears to have nothing worth hearing to add to the debate - rather than trying to make the specific case that attacking Libya would do more harm than good, she just trots out irrelevant slogans.

[cali]

304. +1

[AuntPatsy]

316. Most thoughtful and reasoned response, though I do admire her efforts, not all

Is always so black and white....... But all the one thought processed posts that resort to nothing more than mindless grade school bully style blips in an effort to label Ms Sheenan are nothing more than wasted rhetoric and worthy of what many feel that those on freeperville represent, proof that indeed, like it or not, sometimes force is necessary.

[bvar22]

309. Liberal Democrats agree with Cindy.

"A hard-core group of liberal House Democrats is questioning the constitutionality of U.S. missile strikes against Libya, with one lawmaker raising the prospect of impeachment during a Democratic Caucus conference call on Saturday.

Reps. Jerrold Nadler (N.Y.), Donna Edwards (Md.), Mike Capuano (Mass.), Dennis Kucinich (Ohio), Maxine Waters (Calif.), Rob Andrews (N.J.), Sheila Jackson Lee (Texas), Barbara Lee (Calif.) and Del. Eleanor Holmes Norton (D.C.) “all strongly raised objections to the constitutionality of the president’s actions” during that call, said two Democratic lawmakers who took part.

...

And liberals fumed that Congress hadn’t been formally consulted before the attack and expressed concern that it would lead to a third U.S. war in the Muslim world."

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2011/03/20-1

I glad to see that there a handful of "Democrats" who still speak for me and Cindy.
Otherwise, I would be GONE from the "New Democrat Centrist Party".

[certainot]

310. couple of things about sheehan- without taking a position on this

one, she lost a son and did great to take on the bush crime family as she did. her position comes from principles on this subject, unlike many who claim that both sides are the same out of pure naivete or laziness or hypocrisy. ralph nader would be another- it is the position and individual can take with much greater validity than a follower, as someone who has walked the walk, and her criticism is valid on its own from that perspective, IMO, whether i agree or not.

and second, she has had the whole right wing attack machine leveled at her for much of the time she was in the limelight and few civilians can last long as long as she with the limbaughs and hanntys taking free potshots at them from their lofty chickenhawk perches, protected by call screeners and fed daily by the cowardly intellectually dishonest employees of the world's richest think tanks.

[pulledpork]

320. The left-wing version of Palin

Of course, that means by default her IQ is double digits instead of single, but the leaps of logic and gaping fallacies are the same.

[juajen]

322. She's so right, and that is all I will say on this subject. NT

[Freddie Stubbs]

338. Two pictures sum up Ms. Sheehan pretty well:

[Scurrilous]

343. ROFL at #2. n/t

[KoKo]

348. Do you remember when Chavez gave the New England States CUT RATE HEATING OIL a few years Ago?

There's much about what you say that would lead me to think you might have some ties to "Think Tanks" on the Right...who don't like Hugo Chavez very much.

I hope that I am wrong about that....but your post does make me wonder why you hate Chavez so much...but insinuate that he is evil and by transference that Sheehan is an evil one.

It's always amazing to see what turns up on DU...but it's always an excellent chance to "call out."

Give me links to the EVIL CHAVEZ! Please don't quote "Heritage Foundation, AIPAC, Council on Foreign Relations, CATO Institute, Koch Brothers, Ruppert Murdoch, or the many SPAWNS from HIGH INCOME FOLKS who CREATE THEIR OWN FOUNDATIONS.

[Freddie Stubbs]

366. Chavez and other OPEC leaders jack up the price of oil by limiting supply, and then

he offers it at a discount to make him look munificent. What a swell guy.

John Kerry, who is one of the most liberal Democrats in the Senate, is not a big fan of him:

http://www.globalexchange.org/countries/americas/venezu...

[Gravel Democrat]

365. You didn't post a picture of her son

Looking about the intertubes these last couple of days has convinced me to get the fuck out of this country because if Karma exists it's not going to be pretty. And even if it doesn't I can't stand to be here anymore.

So, thanks for reinforcing my recent decision.

disgusting

[Freddie Stubbs]

368. The same Casey Sheehan who reenlisted AFTER the start of the Iraq war?

It would appear that Mr. Sheehan did not share the same views of him mother on the war. Yet she used his death as a vehicle for her political agenda.

[robcon]

340. Cindy's still a moron, trying to get her 'second' 15 minutes of fame.

n/t

[lynne]

346. Once a "DU Darling", how quickly Cindy has fallen -

- now that she has expressed an opinion contrary to lock-stepped DU mantra.

Like it or not, she's got a point and its a point that is not going unnoticed by the left or the right.

[KoKo]

349. Remember when "Truth Out's Will Pitt" was in that Ditch with Cindy and Reporting?

What an amazing time that was here on DU. We were full of it...and we thought we could rout out the evil there in Crawford, Texas.

It was a time of great INSPIRATION...and HUMOR and ACTIVISM! It was a GOOD TIME.... Before "the Fall."

[Shining Jack]

352. +1

[Karmadillo]

357. Hanging on to principles and refusing to sow the wind always irritates the tumbleweeds.

nt

[KoKo]

351. BTW...if anyone saw ‘Barack-A-lujah's" speeches in South America Today...

You'd be...thinking...what was I thinking back there in '08.

Just saying.