St Patrick’s isn’t a celebration, it is simply a national disgrace

[hedgehog]

"It has become an occasion of national humiliation for years now. It should really be called St Patrick's DNA, as across the world, Irishmen and women have shown in full and shameful manner how we cannot be trusted to celebrate the day without making drunken disgraces of ourselves.

To measure one's national pride by advancing the cause of cirrhosis is truly bizarre: Liver Dance."

....

"St Patrick's Day has thus become the one-day distillation of a ghastly year-long caricature. If the BBC were to offer comparable stereotypes of such paddy-whackery, we would be howling about the racist portrayals of the Irish."


http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/st-patrickrsquos-isnrsquot-a-celebration-it-is-simply-a-national-disgrace-15109726.html

[adigal]

1. It's an excuse to get drunk

From one who doesn't drink anymore, it seems a waste of money and time. And my family is Irish.

[hlthe2b]

43. Seems to me that those who want to get drunk, hardly need an excuse...

My family is Irish as well and I am the product of grandparents who would not even discuss their Irish heritage, having been raised to be ashamed so many years earlier. So, even with its drunken revelry, the celebration of Ireland on St. Patrick's day would seem a big step forward from those days of the not so distant past. :shrug:

[JonLP24]

68. The excuses are there

Not speaking about St. Patrick's Day but other holidays. I'll try to explain in a way that makes sense.

Fourth of July and New Years are two holidays many people celebrate by getting drunk. It isn't something I thought about but when you are recovering, you're advised about those days, and the temptations are strong because friends and family are using those days to get drunk even when they may not drink much throughout the year. I get what you're saying but those excuses are there.

[adigal]

73. I am all for celebrating Ireland, I just hate that it is connected

to getting drunk. From when I was in high school in the 70s, and all the students had off and went to the NYC parade and drank, puked and fell in the mud, to watching adults line up for bars during the day, it is just too much!

[hlthe2b]

79. Then, you really wouldn't enjoy Mardi Gras...

;)

[backscatter712]

136. You say that like it's a bad thing....

:evilgrin::beer:

[meegbear]

2. ...

[somone]

3. 'the Catholic Church as broken as a Mormon lap-dancing club in Afghanistan'

LOL

[hedgehog]

8. You have to admire the Irish way with the English language!

[ellie]

4. About 10 years ago

I moved to the Detroit suburbs and was treated to the spectacle of people lining up outside the bars early in the morning on St. Patrick's Day. I had never seen such a thing in Toledo. Later that day, one of the radio stations was interviewing a man from Ireland who was in town. He had never seen such a thing either. He said that in Ireland they usually go to church on St. Patrick's Day. So there you go. One man's church is another man's lining up at dawn to drink.

[Arugula Latte]

6. Well, I'm not really into celebrating St. P's day, but I'll take drinking over church any day.

[Heidi]

9. Church is an excellent ambassador for all manner of anesthesia,

in my own humble, church-disavowing opinion.

[hfojvt]

149. bah, it's not nearly as boring as school

and has the advantage of only being about an hour once a week versus 7 hours, five days a week.

[Heidi]

194. I enjoyed school.

:hi:

[Heidi]

198. On reflection, it's obvious you weren't raised Southern Baptist.

Children of devout Southern Baptists are not only in church for an hour once a week. For me, it was four hours on Sunday (Sunday School, Training Union, then Sunday Worship); on Wednesday evenings, it was about three hours (Youth Group, then Wednesday Worship). Beyond that, the indoctrination was daily in our home. My parents no longer live like that, but it was a long, long row to hoe growing up.

It's not about boredom. Not by a long haul.

[hfojvt]

205. of course when I think about church or religion

I think about my own church, and my parents religion, which are a good religion, a just religion, not the mean and stupid religion you make them out to be. (and naturally I cannot find my copy of Catch-22 to quote the argument between Yossarian and Lt. Shiesskopf's wife on Thanksgiving where she says "The God I don't believe in is a just god, a merciful god, a kind god, not the mean and stupid god you make him out to be.")

[Heidi]

206. I don't know your religion, but

nowhere have I made any religion out to be mean or stupid (although I do believe there are some mean, stupid extremist subsets of almost every religion). I recounted my own experience growing up Southern Baptist. If my recounting of my own experience is hurtful to you, I apologize for that, as that was not my intent.

(Edited for clarity)

[Whisp]

55. best answer. :) ty, I needed a smile

[Arugula Latte]

56. Cheers ...

:toast: :beer:

[hedgehog]

11. I have a lot of respect for St. Patrick after reading Thomas Cahill's

"How the Irish Saved Civilization". It is appalling to me to see people refer to "St. Patty's Day". Even worse, is the confusion of the shamrock (a symbol of the Trinity) with a four leafed clover!

[hlthe2b]

38. Great book....

and I do find that the shamrock- four leaf clover conflation sort of underscores how superficial we tend to make things over time...Sure St. Patrick ought to be remembered for something other than a drunken sea of green-wearing revelers...

That said, I can't fault people for looking for pleasure and national pride where they can find it. Life is hard enough lately, that I'm not likely to criticize. Seems those who want to be appalled about the day turning into a drunken fest could find lots of other targets--say Super Bowl Sunday, just to start... :shrug:

[Motown_Johnny]

15. Welcome to Detroit!

Sorry it is 10 years late, and I assume you have moved back to Toledo (your profile has you in Toledo.


Yep, we do that here. Not just the suburbs either. Downtown there is a bar which puts up tents in the parking lot for the overflow and even that isn't enough.


Happy St. Patrick's Month/Day !!!!

[ellie]

72. I moved back to Toledo

a couple of years ago. My mom was sick. I still work for a MI-based company and my husband attends Wayne State. And, of course, GO RED WINGS!

[Dappleganger]

123. Savannah is horrible too...

we tried it one year (dh and I) and the stench of vomit still smarts.

[lame54]

202. one rots your brain and the other goes great with pickled eggs

[driver8]

5. Just another day to me...

I'm not a big drinker and can't stand corned beef and cabbage!!

[Motown_Johnny]

7. F___ THAT !!

I love St. Patrick's Day and if I want to drink some beer and eat some corned beef WTF is that to anyone else?

They can stay home and watch TV if they don't want to celebrate.


I think I will go put on some green right now, this OP is starting to get my Irish up.

[JuniperLea]

22. Me too...

When I was a kid we (Dugan, Jeffers, Orr, et al) went to church, then came home to a houseful, and we partied. I've never really been much of a drinker, but I loved the family gathering even though I knew this was something only American Irish did... I'm American Irish and I love family gatherings/parties!

No one is going to piss in my cabbage... Harrumph! Feck off... sod all o' ya. The Irish are always shit on and never fight back. Well here's your fight! Feck!

[leftynyc]

46. Knock yourself out

I spend the day avoiding the drunken teenagers and hoping nobody throws up on me on the train going home.

[Dappleganger]

124. +10000

[HughBeaumont]

10. I call it St Douchebag's Day.

Shoe fits.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=9295887

[a la izquierda]

19. My husband and I, who are both Irish-Americans...

call it Amateur's Day. Neither one of us can stand going to any bar or restaurant.

I'm celebrating tonight, going to see Flogging Molly.

[WatsonT]

27. Jealous

never had a chance to see them live.

[a la izquierda]

199. If you ever get the chance, I highly recommend it.

I've seen them a brazillion times, and love every show.

[HughBeaumont]

39. A REAL Irish band. Great stuff.

Weird that guy used to sing for Fastway.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HughBeaumont]

35. I'm part of Roller Derby, a relatively douchebag-free sport complete with killer after-parties.

My life's just smiling dandy without the fratster tool-o-rama that is March 17th, thanks.

[LanternWaste]

Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

"I'm part of Roller Derby, a relatively douchebag-free sport complete with killer after-parties..."

Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

[HughBeaumont]

70. No, it really isn't.

D-Bags don't really gravitate towards derby. It lacks the ornaments they're into.

[LanternWaste]

84. I imagine we all defend the traditions and entertainments...

I imagine we all defend the traditions and entertainments (and definitions of d-bags) we're associated with and trash the traditions and entertainments we're not...

[Name removed]

153. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JVS]

80. Evidently Roller Derby has changed. When I saw it last it was essentially pro-wrestling on wheels.

Hard to imagine something more douchebag rich than that.

[HughBeaumont]

86. Nope. It's now got rules, committees, tournaments, and is mostly skater owned and operated.

http://wftda.com/

Flat track's more practical than bank track derby (Bank track still exists, but it's far less prominent due to logistics, safety and set up).

[JuniperLea]

29. Speak for yourself...

If you become a douchbag, that's your own business. I don't believe in going out to the bars with the amateurs... I'll stay home and listen to Van Morrison and Thin Lizzy and celebrate being American Irish without douchbags as I do every year.

Feck.

[jdlh8894]

40. Same here -except

I'll be listening to The Irish Rovers and playing a few shanties!

[JuniperLea]

45. Heh! Love them!

Have a blast!

[HughBeaumont]

60. I just avoid Cleveland and it's vomiting kids like the plague.

The problem I have with it is that no one can be MELLOW and buzzed/drunk anymore. It's all about being obnoxious and/or a violent dick, more often than not, and the fratshits this day attracts are supreme offenders of that. I don't want any part of that crap.

Plus I'm Italian . .. (yet on that note, I ALWAYS miss Feast of the Assumption in Little Italy. ALWAYS doing something that day without fail. Makes me mad).

[JuniperLea]

98. I hear that...

I was so lucky that my Irish grandparents lived next door to an Italian family! We had all sorts of reasons to party and drink... but no one puked... go figure!

Yeah, I don't get the being obnoxious and/or violent dick, but it does seem like a goal to many idiots.

[Name removed]

116. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jmaxfie1]

140. Someone needs a drink :) n/t

[HughBeaumont]

143. Stopped 22 years ago.

I'm "anti-obnoxious/violent dumbshit to the point where it ruins everyone else's fun", not anti-alcohol, anti-party, anti-substance, anti-celebration. MAN.

[Vinnie From Indy]

166. So you are calling all the folks that actually like St. Patricks Day "douchebags"?

Is that correct?

Cheers!

[HughBeaumont]

169. Um, NO.

The parades, by and large, have been usurped by obnoxious Jersey-Shoreish idiots.

Once again, for people who are unnecessarily bugged by this, I'm not anti-alcohol, anti-party, anti-celebration, anti-St. Patrick's Day . .. I'm not even anti-substance, even though I don't do anything myself.

I'm anti-caricature obnoxious asshole belligerent fight-starting drunk, which there seems to be an abundance OF on this particular day, and earlier and earlier in the day.

[Vinnie From Indy]

176. But, you still label the entire holiday St. Douchebag Day

That would seem to be an extremely large brush to capture the behavior of a very, very tiny fraction of people on that day. I see that type of comment as no different than someone calling the Feast of the Assumption the Feast of the Organized Criminals or Feast of the Douchebags or some other such nonsense.

I am not bugged by your dislike of St. Patrick's Day. I could not care less. I am a bit put-off by your willingness to slap the label "St. Douchebag Day" on a day that millions of Irish and Irish-Americans celebrate and revere. I am a bit shocked your comment was not deleted.

Cheers!

[Biker13]

177. Me Too!

I have always pitied this poster because of the bullying he's endured all his life, but now I see how it's vented.

I thought "Douche bag" was a No-no on this board.

Biker's Old Lady

[HughBeaumont]

178. After being on the Rapid and Cleveland's downtown with drunks of all ages for 10 years . ..

. . . every March 17th, I can honestly say it's not just a "very very tiny fraction" of people that are obnoxious to belligerent. You know that as well as I do.

[Vinnie From Indy]

192. Again, I am simply astonished that your posts are allowed to stand

on this thread. Quite clearly, you are painting an entire culture with a very broad derogatory brush based on your perceived notions and experiences. I fail to see how that is different than any bigot offering the same about any group. Would you use the same term to describe Martin Luther King Day or Columbus Day or Yom Kippur or Octoberfest? Would you be allowed to here at DU? I think not.
St. Douchebag's Day?
Really?

Slainte!

[Mojorabbit]

12. We have a huge celebration

in my house, with "Irish" lamb stew, and lots of beautiful and or lively Irish music, and we watch the Quiet Man.
We might sip on a shot of very good whiskey but it is not an occasion for getting trashed. I am all for any excuse to be in a celebratory mood. Things are pretty bleak all around and it lifts one out of that mindset into another if for a short time.

[ChoppinBroccoli]

13. I Have Made The Claim (Half-Facetiously) That St. Patrick's Day Is A Racist Holiday

Back when I was in college, I used to like riling people up by making the half-facetious claim that St. Patrick's Day is a racist holiday. Now, bear in mind that I really have no big problem with St. Patrick's Day, and don't actually believe it to be racist, but I think I do have a couple of valid points. I claimed that it perpetuates a stereotype of Irish people. When people countered that it's a celebration of Irish culture, I would always respond with this: What do you do in order to celebrate St. Patrick's Day? You wear green, sometimes even dress up like a leprechaun, and get drunk. And you do this to "act like an Irishman." How is this NOT perpetuating a negative stereotype? What if, on Martin Luther King Day, everyone put on afro wigs and ate watermelon and fried chicken?

Which leads me off onto another tangent. When I was in college, my college chose to celebrate Martin Luther King Day by cancelling all classes and holding what they called a "MLK Day of Learning." There were seminars held and speeches given and a march/parade, and all the African-American leaders of the community were invited to participate. And to top it all off, a luncheon was held in the school cafeteria, and what was served? You guessed it. Fried chicken, collard greens, black-eyed peas, watermelon. My friends and I were sitting there at that lunch going, "OMG, this is so frickin' racist! Why are the community leaders taking part in this not offended?"

[EFerrari]

28. Dr. King loved Southern food and that dinner was reportedly

his favorite, along with pecan pie. If that's true or just apocryphal, I've no idea.

[wickerwoman]

187. Racism isn't in the symbols,

it's in who's using them and why. Context is key.

I'm Irish. If I want to sing maudlin songs and wear green or even get drunk on St. Paddy's Day it's not racist because it's not tied to system of oppression, I am not a historical oppressor of the Irish and wearing green and leprechauns aren't actually negative stereotypes- they're symbols of pride. Drinking is another matter... but the point stands. When was the last time someone wasn't hired because they were Irish and therefore a drunk? 1934?

Likewise, if a black person wants to wear an afro wig and eat fried chicken on a day celebrating their cultural or racial heritage then it's not for me to comment on. If a young Republican club full of privileged white kids wants to do the same, that is racist because they are employing racial stereotypes to denigrate people still caught in a system of oppression. People still actually don't get hired because they're black. People are sometimes denied housing or are hassled by the police because of their skin color.

Am I a racist if I show a swastika in the context of a history class I'm teaching? Of course not.

[LeftinOH]

14. I have always observed that the drunken nitwits staggering around are

probably NOT Irish; it's just another excuse to drink.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

16. Well, alcoholism isn't known as the "Irish Virus" for nothing.

And, yes, I am Irish (grandmother born and raised in County Mayo) and an ex-drunk. And, no, alcoholism isn't confined to we Micks, bogtrotters, Paddies.

[hedgehog]

63. True , that. Maybe it's because I've seen too much of the damage alcoholism

causes that I can't be blase about drunkenness.

[raccoon]

121. You and me both, sister. nt

[pipi_k]

201. Me too...I've already seen too many family and friends

die from either alcoholism or smoking.

For me, it's not a laughing matter.

[DefenseLawyer]

17. Wow. Debbie Downer.

No more fun of any kind!

[jdlh8894]

36. We have to get the snakes out! Now!!

[dipsydoodle]

18. Its an annual bit of fun here in the UK

A night out, probably with some appropriate music, and not everyone gets wrecked.

[AngryAmish]

20. oh no, someone having fun

must clutch pearls...

[Gemini Cat]

155. The anti fun crowd are free to clutch their pearls as often as they want.

They better keep their clutching little anti fun mitts off mine, however.
Life is bleak enough with out that rubbish.

Not one drop of Irish blood in me, but I have been known to have a lot of fun on 17 March.

[Old and In the Way]

23. Bet you're no fan of Cico de Mayo celebrations, either...amirite?

In my younger days, St. Patty's day (yep, this 3rd generation's Irish catholic family calls it this) was a great excuse to party. Alas, I no longer have neither the head nor the resiliency to 'tie one on'. To each his own, I guess. I've got more pressing issues to be outraged at.

[WinkyDink]

85. Is St. Patrick's Day a school celebration? Are Anglos prevented from wearing orange on 3/17?

And by "Anglos", I mean exactly that: students with English heritage.

But then, I'm English, Irish, and Welsh, so whatever.

[lukasahero]

100. Are you suggesting that there's some kind of law

that says people (regardless of heritage) can't wear orange on St. Patrick's Day? Hell, I wore an orange shamrock to school in 7th grade that read "Kiss me, I'm Irish too." Mr. Callahan didn't like he but it gave him an opportunity to talk to me about why he didn't. It didn't give him an opportunity to arrest me.

:shrug:

So yes, I'm an Irish Protestant living in Massachusetts. St. Paddy's Day isn't really my thing but I think the suggestion that anyone is prevented from doing anything because of the holiday is a little disingenuous.

[RB TexLa]

180. An orange shamrock is insulting any day of the year

[WinkyDink]

203. Well, as a descendant of County Donegal immigrants, I 100% agree.

[hlthe2b]

24. Not like this is the only day of celebration that includes maximum alcohol...

I say, lighten up. Life is dark enough as it is--which undoubtedly explains the origin of the Irish stereotype equating drinking so heavily. They are hardly the only nationality to do so.

[CLANG]

119. I hope none of the "party" bashers are gun owners

Because then I would have to say: Alcohol doesn't kill people, Alcoholics kill people.

[WatsonT]

25. Well one day there may be a celebration for St. Buzzkill

and on that day this guy will truly be happy.

But until then just let everyone else have their fun.

[tammywammy]

30. St Buzz Killington

[Travelman]

111. No kidding!

Someone clearly just is not happy at all unless they are absolutely and completely miserable.

Good grief.




You can have my beer when your pry it from my cold, green-stained fingers....

[CLANG]

120. Correction:

Someone clearly just is not happy at all unless they EVERYONE is absolutely and completely miserable.

[Travelman]

130. Ah!

Good correction. You're absolutely right.

[WatsonT]

138. Or if they're a little patient

they can have the beer later that day.

They may want to bring a bucket though.

[Xithras]

26. He must've sat down pretty hard to get that stick jammed so far up...

I thought this was satire at first, but then realized that he's serious. The fun police are out in force again!

He wants the Irish, and those of us of Irish decent (hey, I'm 50%), to give up centuries old traditions that hurt nobody because it makes us look bad?!?! Póg mo thóin.

[hedgehog]

34. "Centuries old traditions"?

http://www.timesunion.com/local/article/Riot-a-rift-in-town-and-gown-1132965.php#photo-6

[Xithras]

48. What's that have to do with the price of a green beer?

This guy wasn't railing on college students, he was blasting the Irish for celebrating a holiday. I have no problem with ending St. Paddy's drunkfests at college campuses, but this guy was extending it much further, telling the Irish that we can't celebrate OUR own cultural traditions!

[hedgehog]

58. He was pointing out that getting drunk and blowing chunks

isn't exactly a proud tradition. You'll notice he also criticized the farce that Irish step dancing has become.

[Xithras]

64. Proud or not...

It's a tradition, and no culture should ever have to give up a tradition merely because other cultures look down on it.

I do agree with the dancing thing though. Riverdance birthed a blight.

[hedgehog]

75. Celebrating St. Patrick's Day was the tradition; donning left over

Mardi Gras beads and blowing chunks is a perversion of the tradition.

[CLANG]

126. That's a very broad brush

My wife and I will be going to this great Irish restaurant for some CB&C and some Irish stew. I'll probably have a few Guinesses. You have a problem with that?

[Buns_of_Fire]

160. Here's to Irish Stew!

:toast: :beer:

[WatsonT]

197. So would you say there's a war on St. Patricks day?

[tammywammy]

37. I agree

No fun for you!

I'm a good ol' American mutt, a good mix-mash. The Irish side shows through my bright red hair, but my family's been in the US since the Revolution.

[Buns_of_Fire]

161. Here's to American Mutts!

:toast: :beer:

[mitchtv]

200. so that's how you spell it

I was going to try, glad I didn't

[WilliamPitt]

31. Well, it's one of my favorite days.

So.

[hlthe2b]

77. So, Guinness all around-- is on you?

:evilgrin:

[WilliamPitt]

101. As in "spilled on me"?

Sure. I need a bath anyway. :P

[hlthe2b]

105. prefer to have it "billed on you"

but either way... :7

[CLANG]

It's very good for shiny carefree glorious hair with a sheen that will make the lassies fawn.

[Buns_of_Fire]

163. Here's to shiny carefree glorious hair with a sheen that will make the lassies fawn!

:toast: :beer:

[Buns_of_Fire]

162. Here's to Will Pitt!

:toast: :beer:

[Orrex]

32. If you're not going to drink that, can I have yours?

[jdlh8894]

52. Ain't taking mine!!

But I'll share!!

[Codeine]

33. Is there ANY holiday that isn't a cheesy excuse to get drunk?

:shrug: I work in a grocery store and I see people buy kegs for their three-year-old's birthday parties. The amount of booze we sell on supposedly-sacred holidays like Easter is simply staggering. Singling out St. Pat's Day for being a drunken mess is failing to see the forest for the trees.

[tammywammy]

44. All holidays are a drinking excuse for some

That includes Mother's Day, Father's Day, Flag Day, Easter, Good Friday, etc.

[CLANG]

131. Any time not at work is a drinking excuse for some!

[Buns_of_Fire]

158. That reminds me -- today's the Ides of March!

:toast: :beer:

[Warpy]

47. No, and St. Patrick's day is one of the more benign ones.

Think about some of the others: Christmas is alcohol and extortion; New Year's is alcohol and maudlin nostalgia; the Fourth of July is alcohol and explosives.

March 17 is just alcohol and a color few people look good in.

[Codeine]

50. "Alcohol and extortion"!

:rofl: I'm keeping that one! :rofl:

[tammywammy]

54. LOL!

That's good.

But I take offense as a red head, I look great in green. :)

[HughBeaumont]

78. New Years could be alcohol and blackmail if you go to the right party.

:evilgrin:

[fishwax]

168. lol -- great post

:rofl:

[wickerwoman]

189. Have to disagree

Alcohol and bagpipes trumps the others.

:evilgrin:

[Warpy]

191. If it were the Scot pipes, I'd agree

I find the uileann pipes a bit easier to take, there's only one drone and one chanter and they never gurgle due to spit condensation. Put them in a group of unfriendly instruments and they're almost pleasant.

[Warpy]

41. The spectacle in Boston was of all the Italian politicians

looking absolutely ghastly in green, elbowing themselves to the front of the parade and being photographed downing green dyed lager in pubs they'd never set foot in the rest of the year.

The green vomit in the gutters the next day was an improvement over the usual color of blown chunks and happy returns, but that's about it.

I baked a fancy Irish bread that day, but that's all I did. I look like hell in green.

The whole story of Patrick is summed up by the story that he drove the snakes out of Ireland. There were never any snakes in Ireland, so that story remains a classic bit of Irish sarcasm.

[CBGLuthier]

42. Corporate Driven Holidays Always Suck

I don't do a damned thing for this or Cinco de Mayo. They are both bullshit holidays driven by the beer and snack chip industries. And being a proud semi-scotsman I don't need anybody telling me when it is time to get drunk. :-)

[Peregrine Took]

49. I long for the St. Pat's Day's of my youth. A nice parade with bands and floats,

then house parties after wards with families, songs and stories.

NO public peeing and drunkenness and puking. No green faces, ft tall hats, Mardi Gras beads and assorted gimcrackery.

No pub crawls, trolleys, buses or trains filled with sh*tfaced youths barely able to walk.

We had a house right near a parade route a few years ago and it was pathetic to see girls peeing right on our lawn in the middle of the day.

I'm glad my parents aren't around to see this current mess of a "St. Patty's Day!"

[hlthe2b]

57. re: I'm glad my parents aren't around to see this current mess....."

As mentioned earlier, I am the product of grandparents who were raised in a climate of shame for their Irish heritage and the bigotry it engendered on arrival here. So, I am proud to see some celebration of Irish heritage--even with the extreme excesses it has brought. Imminently better than those bad old days that resulted in my late grandparents' refusal to even acknowledge or discuss their Irish heritage... :shrug:

[HughBeaumont]

81. And that's what the finger-wavers in this thread seem to be completely missing -

No one's saying "Don't celebrate St Patrick's Day and be a monk instead". :eyes:

It's more "stop shitting on other people's fun by being an obnoxious douchebag dick-tit", which St. Frat-rick's Day is plagued by anymore.

[hlthe2b]

90. re:

"don't be an obnoxious drunken douchebag".... could apply to one heck of a lot of holidays and celebrations. I don't think it is confined to St. Patrick's Day by any means.

As one who got through school waitressing, on the excessive tips of zealous drunken alumnae(received after ducking the glasses hurled across the room at regular intervals by those who came to "tail-gait" before major college football games).... I can attest that this is hardly an isolated St. Patrick's Day phenomenon.

[HughBeaumont]

95. Mardi Gras, Feast of the Assumption, Cinco De Mayo, Fourth of July,

Even Memorial Day . . . I remember 8 years ago, some of the wife's drunk uncles scaring the shit outta my (then) 8 year old by throwing everything in sight in a fire pit, torching parts of my already-dry back-yard. Then her sister almost gets in a fight with the neighbor up the street.

It's stupid crap like this that I avoid.

[hlthe2b]

107. well, they don't call it the "demon drink" for naught.

All things in moderation (said the womanizing Ben Franklin...;) )

[HughBeaumont]

114. Yeah, I'm hoping that works with full racks of ribs!

GOD I love them so.

[Codeine]

91. "obnoxious dick-tit"

That's pure gold. :evilgrin:

[msanthrope]

134. What St. Patrick's Day Parade was that????

I grew up in NYC and was forced to go to a Catholic school. We always got St. Pat's day off--always, until finally the cops sat the Archbishop down and told him enough with the puking 5th graders....

That was 30-odd years go.

[RebelOne]

51. Just an excuse for WalMart to sell

"Kiss Me, I'm Irish" buttons.

[Cleita]

53. St. Pat's day is a religious holiday in Ireland.

Sure, the Irish go to the pub after church, but they do that on Sunday too. It seems it's America that has embraced it as a drunken, carnival day. My husband was Irish and wondered why the Americans celebrated it as such. I don't know what that guy from Belfast is moaning about unless our version has spread to the Emerald Isle in the way of celebration.

[hedgehog]

66. I'm afraid that St. Patrick's used to be a religious holiday in Ireland.

At some point, people noticed all the tourists who showed up for the big celebration, so they decided to put one together.

[pulledpork]

59. I am putting on some Pogues

And cracking open a pint of Guinness.

[Buns_of_Fire]

164. Here's to Guinness!

:toast: :beer: (Guinness Extra Stout: It's not just for breakfast anymore!)

[Fuzz]

61. Corned beef and cabbage is worse.

;)

My wife wants it every year. I make it for the family, because she requests it, but I hate it. Not sure why she likes it, she's Filipino, though born in NJ!

[hedgehog]

69. According to my mother, corned beef is what the Irish in America

ate because they couldn't afford ham.

Now, ham and cabbage, that's a fine dish, especially with some buttered boiled potatoes on the side!

[Dappleganger]

129. Well I grew up on that...

and not just once a year, more like twice a month. Still crave it made from Mom, too bad she's not here.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

62. Interesting that this opinion is coming out of Belfast. I used to work in NYC, right

in the area which was the epicenter of the parade, and it was lots of fun for me. I enjoyed watching all the people celebrating and having a great time. :)

[catnhatnh]

89. Ding Ding Ding...

...you don't have to shoot the messenger but you should give him a goods look. Wiki Kevin Meyers and learn about the rest of his opinions...

[Stevenmarc]

99. The parade in NYC is a very different animal

from the parades in Ireland.

The NYC parade is pretty much a grass roots event with a lot of community participation while the parades in Ireland rely heavily on corporate sponsorship which is why pretty much every other float over there is from a brewery which probably is the reason why there doesn't seem to be any effort to stem public drunkenness, unlike NYC who cracked down because they saw the value of making the event a good tourist experience.

[The Green Manalishi]

65. I play in a Celtic band

Very profitable day for us.

[RedCloud]

76. can you handle the Miami Heatles?

[madamesilverspurs]

67. Yeah, let's stick with more sedate religious celebrations --

like Mardi Gras.


-

[hlthe2b]

71. Touche'

[RedCloud]

74. Methinks an Ulster Protestant doth protest too much.

[HuckleB]

93. +1

[WilliamPitt]

102. Win.

[Scurrilous]

103. ...

:thumbsup:

[WildEyedLiberal]

113. +100

[Agent William]

142. I'm not sure he's a Protestant...

I do think however that he is pro-union (that's just my feeling, don't have anything to back that up with).

The way I see it, the author is trying to say that their is more to Irish culture than drinking, which is sadly what St. Patrick's day has become.

But ultimately the author is wrong. People get pissed up on the 17th not because they are trying to perpetuate a negative stereotype, but rather most are looking for any excuse to get smashed.

[muriel_volestrangler]

152. Except he's Catholic, and lives in the Republic

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Myers

He does seem rather conservative, but you may as well get your criticism right. It's obvious, reading the piece, that he is talking as an Irish Catholic - I can't imagine what makes anyone here think he's an Ulster Protestant. Maybe they haven't bothered reading the article, just the excerpt and 'belfast' in the URL.

[fishwax]

171. an atheist, actually -- I don't see anything betraying a Catholic perspective in the article

I know he was raised Catholic. The way that he talks about transubstantiation, though, doesn't seem to demonstrate a serious investment in Catholicism as a belief system.

At any rate, here's an article in which he discusses his approach to religious matters: http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/kevin-myers-alternative-to-religion-is-a-secular-dementia-that-makes-a-godlike-figure-out-of-wayne-rooney-2399400.html

[Jersey Devil]

82. May snakes invade his house and crawl up his nose

I am not of Irish descent, but I've been to plenty of St. Patrick's Day celebrations where step dancing and music and non-alcoholic fun took place without alcohol abuse.

Should we also ban Christmas because a lot of people get drunk at office parties? There are jerks for every occasion and every ethnicity.

[WinkyDink]

83. OFGS. What a load of rubbish. My middle name is Erin, and I'll drink if I want to! And it's "PADDY"!

NOT "PATTY"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SOS]

87. A disgrace, I tells ya

[slackmaster]

88. Auto-unrec for trying to throw a wet blanket on a celebration you don't like

Jeez hedgehog, you sound like a Big Book-thumping Friend of Bill.

[Kennah]

92. Bored of the Pants: An Excuse to Get Drunk and Get Laid!

Flatley, that's all it's about.

:snarky:

[HuckleB]

94. Is this guy trying to be the Irish Beck?

:shrug:

[EstimatedProphet]

96. So what? Really, so what?

We don't have enough things to be annoyed with in the world right now?

[KamaAina]

97. St. Pat's just hasn't been the same since the New Orleans parade had to stop throwing cabbages

liability, y'know. :(

Seriesly, they used to throw cabbages and potatoes from the floats, along with Mardi Gras-style trinkets, so you could catch your dinner!

[hlthe2b]

137. Ah, couldn't they have hollowed them out a bit & still thrown them?

Or maybe teach the "gingerly" toss technique? Too bad.

[last_texas_dem]

104. Yeah, I'm not too big on any of the "holidays" that are

just used as excuses to go out and get drunk. Most of the folks celebrating these "holidays" would be going out and doing that anyway, so there's no need to dress things up under the guise of a holiday. Besides (at least speaking of most of the folks where I come from) you're not Irish, or have very minimal links to your Irish heritage, so why are you "stealing" their holiday? You're not Catholic, so why are you celebrating Mardi Gras (and, not surprisingly, *not* celebrating any of the other Catholic Easter-related traditions)?

[HuckleB]

112. So no non-Germans at Oktoberfest, too?

Is this a new rule?

:shrug:

[last_texas_dem]

117. Nah, no rule. Mostly just personal preference.

I don't have any experience with Oktoberfest. The big thing where I'm from is Mardi Gras, which seems to have gone from being a big deal Cajun fest to just another night for all the rednecks to go and get drunk, only this time with lots of beads.

[HuckleB]

106. But, first, we really must ban Oktoberfest, New Year's Eve, Mardi Gras/Carnivale, Cinco de Mayo ...

and.... ?

[JVS]

125. Oktoberfest is a celebration in memory of a really good wedding reception.

You can't ban that!

[HuckleB]

127. Why not?

:beer:

[backscatter712]

141. The Fourth of July.

What's more American than drinking beer and playing with explosives?

[HuckleB]

209. Indeed.

Drive through the city of Portland, Oregon on the 4th of July arond 10:30 or 11:00 on the 4th of July, and you would think you're in a war zone, the smoke is everywhere.

[TheKentuckian]

108. Stop pissing in my Harps

[La Lioness Priyanka]

109. the discrimination against LGBT people should be the real disgrace, for st pats day marches

not the drunkenness. who really cares if you are drunk.

[KamaAina]

144. Indeed. One year New Haven had the largest St. Pat's parade in New England

because Mass.' Supreme Judicial Court (the same one that would later pave the way for marriage equality) told the Boston organizers that, as a public accommodation, they had to include LGBT participants -- so they took their marbles and went home. :eyes:

[CLANG]

110. Is it my fault that we celebrate the best of the Irish on the 17th of March?

The Irish have great ale, stouts and whiskey! The have corned beef and cabbage,Irish Stew, and Sheppard's Pie!

What's wrong with a little Irish fun one day a year! Sheesh, what a bunch of party poopers.

[Agent William]

139. The way I see it...

The best of the Irish is not their booze, but rather their culture (which is more than drinking!), their music and their literature and sadly that is not what is celebrated on the 17th and in my view that is what the author is getting at.

Your point about the corned beef, stew etc, is spot on. Now that's celebrating something that has more relevance to Ireland than just drinking!

[CLANG]

154. Drinking does have some relevance to Ireland. n/t

[Lucian]

115. I know I'll be celebrating in full force on Thursday.

And I'm not even Irish.

[CreekDog]

118. Heyyyy, why you no like-a the stereotype???

[Dappleganger]

122. Typical Irish guilt trip rant.

Fuck 'em, I'm Irish!

[Tommy_Carcetti]

128. Is this guy serious?

Besides the St. Patrick's Day stuff itself, what's the tangent he goes off on regarding girls getting First Communion? I totally lost this guy.

[hlthe2b]

133. Google him... His writings have various "interesting" bents

Based on that bit I read, I don't think I'd agree with much in his columns, but have never followed him.

[hedgehog]

175. The guy seems to be a bit of a jerk in his other columns, but here he

is referring to families who exhibit their new found wealth by really going overboard with their daughter's First Communion; $500 dresses, make-up, chauffeured limousine, etc. Think Prom Day with 7 year olds.

[Lastactiongyro]

132. Lets see, Japanese Meltdowns, Global Strife, Teabggers turning country into the 4th Riech,

Climate Change, Volcanos erupting, and your upset about St Paddy's day. Nice to see one's pirorities are in order.

[Tumbulu]

135. great - I posted it on facebook

It should make for a lively discussion among my Irish relatives- especially the little part about dressing the girls up as trollops for Holy Communion and Irish Dancing.

[ceile]

145. Mr. Myers, you sir, are a wanker.

Get over yourself.

[Bette Noir]

146. Hello, I'm half Irish, and I've never been drunk in my life.

In the last ten years together, I don't think I've drunk enough to get a buzz-- half a glass of champagne on New Year's Eve, only if I get invited to a real party.

I never did drink much. Since marrying a man who has a life-threatening alcohol intolerance, I drink even less.

[Jmaxfie1]

147. Guy sounds like a cantankerous nut IMO n/t

[Jmaxfie1]

148. St. Patrick's Day is also my Birthday!

My parents almost named me Patrick. So I will be drinking Guinness for St. Paddy and Schwarzbier for me.

[madamesilverspurs]

156. Mine, too!

Did your mother dye all the food green for your birthday celebration? Mine did. Until the day my little brother screamed in sheer fright when he pooped green!

-

[Jmaxfie1]

159. Yes she did! Happy Soon-To-Be-Birthday!!! :)

[madamesilverspurs]

170. And to you as well!

[Buns_of_Fire]

165. Here's to Jmaxfie1 and madamesilverspurs!

:toast: :beer:

[madamesilverspurs]

172. 'Tis a kindness I'm thanking you for!

[Jmaxfie1]

196. Thanks!!! :) n/t

[Starry Messenger]

150. That article seems rather bigoted, frankly.

Is there a such thing as a self-loathing Irishman? Lighten up Kevin.

[LibertyLover]

151. I used to work at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York City

The St. Patrick's Day parade went up 5th Avenue past our building at 82nd and 5th. When the day fell on a Monday all was good because the Met was closed and the guards were able to keep people out. Other days, they had problems, but generally wouldn't let drunken kids in. The walkway through Central Park over to the Central Park West generally smelled of urine and vomit for several days afterwards. But one of my best St. Patrick's Day stories comes from that period in my life. I was on my lunch hour and watching the parade. One of the Irish Northern Aid groups marched by with their banners and from somewhere to my right I heard a very Southern accented voice speak up and say: "Irish Northern A I D? A I D. Would that be Association of Interior Decorators?". I have to say I walked back to my desk laughing.

[Octafish]

157. Lebedev's wrong on this.

The Irish are good people.

[Buns_of_Fire]

167. That they are. As a people, they've nothing to be ever ashamed of, ever.

For that matter, neither does any other generic group, as a whole. The fuckups are usually a small fraction of the whole, or someone who needs them for one reason or the other. Reference: 20th and 21st century politics.

[Old Troop]

173. Wow! People are really into this idea - pro or con.

I say let people do what they want as long as it doesn't harm other people or property. If it does, the individuals causing the harm should be dealt with within the law. Has anyone considered how many things we say or view in daily life reflect old prejudice against the Irish? People are taken away by police in a "Paddy Wagon." If you're about to fight, you might have your Irish Up. Notre Dame uses a florid, short Irishman, about to fight, as its mascot. The Boston Celtics use a Irish stereotype as theirs. Very often cops in popular shows have an Irish brogue. People sometimes refer to the Irish disease or virus when talking about alcoholism. But does any of this really matter? Is it worth the increasing sound and fury that we hear from advocates? I say no.

[HughBeaumont]

179. The truth of the matter is . . .

. . . real Irish are nothing at all like their American stereotypes. When my wife visited for work, she couldn't believe the peace and quiet of the countryside. Dogs don't have to walk on leashes. People she didn't know from Adam greeted her while walking through Dublin's shops and pubs. The vibe is happy (kind of the same way in Toronto. Are there any American cities where you don't really feel threatened). And St. Patricks Day is a low-key holiday over there.

[Starry Messenger]

183. This is just a warm-up for Thursday.

Wait until we get the inevitable "I'm wearing orange today instead of green, does that make me a jerk?" thread.

[backscatter712]

208. Didn't the old duelling code forbid Irishmen from acting as seconds?

After all, the Irish loved fighting so much that they wouldn't be able to carry out one of the duties of the second - to act as mediators and go-betweens in attempts to negotiate a truce...

[Patriot 76]

174. Drunken assholes are a problem every day of the year.

Not just on March 17th.

Bring on the corned beef!

[jmowreader]

181. Whoever invented green beer needs to have his ass kicked

Beer should be amber in color. Making it green is an abomination.

[toddaa]

182. St Patrick's Day should be a day of mourning

The Celtic gods were way cooler than Jesus. St. Patrick killed them. bastard.

[GreenPartyVoter]

184. Or at least turned them all into saints.

[toddaa]

195. Uggh, even worse

They haven't done that to Morrigan, have they? They ruined Brigit, but the Morrigan is beyond salvation.

[mitchtv]

185. speak for yourself please

sorry that brush is a bit broad.

[Throd]

186. Sounds like poor Panty O'Waddington wasn't invited to the party.

[JVS]

190. LOL!

[H2O Man]

188. I'm planning an OP

about the actual meaning of the day. I try to write about Irish history every year at this time. I do not approve of the behavior of those who get drunk on St. Patrick's Day.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

193. As a person of Scottish descent, I'll celebrate St Patrick's day with drunken hysteria...

But I'll make sure the Irish get ALL the credit, out of the goodness of my scottish heart!

[backscatter712]

204. Just to piss this guy off, I'm gonna get smashed for St.Patty's Day... n/t

[Manifestor_of_Light]

207. You guys know about the little guy who lives outside?

Paddy O'Furniture.


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