'I didn't think of Iraqis as humans,' says U.S. soldier who raped 14-year-old girl

[oberliner]

before killing her and her family

An Iraq War veteran serving five life terms for raping and killing a 14-year-old Iraqi girl and killing her parents and sister says he didn't think of Iraqi civilians as humans after being exposed to extreme warzone violence.

Steven Green, a former 101st Airborne soldier, in his first interview since the 2006 killings, claimed that his crimes were fuelled in part by experiences in Iraq's violent 'Triangle of Death' where two of his sergeants were gunned down.

He also cited a lack of leadership and help from the Army.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1340207/I-didnt-think-Iraqis-humans-says-U-S-soldier-raped-14-year-old-girl-killing-her-family.html#ixzz190SXJ1Qe

[greymattermom]

1. if they aren't humans

does he think he had sex with an animal?

[jwirr]

2. Good point.

[freshwest]

19. My thought exactly.

[AlabamaLibrul]

3. Of course he didn't. Little brown people aren't really humans.

Fuck this war

[JI7]

4. he is making excuses and blaming others, lack of leadership from the army ?

wtf does that mean????

what he did was just so wrong. it's not like he made a mistake in communication , using the wrong words or something.

[truedelphi]

8. So many involved in that war don't take any of the responsibility.

Our former fearless Leader, George W, got down on his knees and then was told by God Himself of the necessity for having that war, so we cannot blame Georgie.

Di Feinstein rewrote the Senate Ethic Rules making it okay-dokey to vote for legalizing the war so that her husband could make tens of millions of dollars on it, and due to the fact that the Powers that Be let her do this, rather than stopping her, I imagine she would also wash her hands of the war, though surely she would not wash her hands of all that lovely money.

But we are now a "forward" looking nation, so anyone who makes six figures and has connections in the House and Senate or actually currently serves in the House and/or the Senate, doesn't need to worry about serving five life sentences.

But I sure wouldn't wanna be them come Judgment Day.

[PerpetuallyDazed]

32. Where was the leadership that was supposed to prevent this shit from happening??

That's a damn good question, not an excuse. This guy was clearly unstable/psychotic to do such a thing. A superior, comrade, WHOEVER should have noticed.

My hubby was in Iraq in in '06 and he had similar things to say about his experiences with his superiors. They let so much shit slide by. Real "leaders" are hard to come by, even if they officially outrank you.

[sendero]

33. His commander..

... forgot to tell him that raping and killing are wrong. Their bad.

[Cid_B]

47. The copier cut that portion off the ROE card...

[Orsino]

42. The instigation of the war entailed dehumanization of Iraqis.

We don't get to feign surprise when the propaganda affects some more than others.

What he did was wrong, but it didn't happen in a vacuum.

[MattBaggins]

52. The instigation of all wars since time began

involve dehumanizing the "enemy".

[awoke_in_2003]

59. Yep,...

and that is why war is bad (even escalations in Afghanistan)

[man4allcats]

5. Over the last couple of days, I've had the opportunity to again watch

my copy of the WWII miniseries "Band Of Brothers" based on the experiences of the U. S. Army's Easy Company of the 101st Airborne Division. It is truly a shame to think that this G.I. was also a member of the 101st. He is more than a disgrace to the division and deserves every punishment he gets and then some. PTSD is no excuse.

[Bonobo]

6. It's hypocritical to single out this guy.

The whole idea, the whole message, the whole philosophy underpinning war is implicitly based on the dehumanization of the other side.

[w4rma]

7. That was the entire strategy of the neocons, to dehumanize these people.

This guy was just dumb enough to completely buy into their propaganda. And his actions are a direct result of buying into that propaganda.

[awoke_in_2003]

62. yep, and all wars have propaganda...

you should research WWII propaganda- the Germans are always big hulking "Huns", and the Japanese are always short myopic people. Some of the stuff printed back then could never be printed today.

[oberliner]

9. He did rape a child and kill a family

I think that might be worth singling out.

[Bonobo]

11. Well yes, but I overstated the case to make a point.

The point is that it stinks of hypocrisy to condemn killing a family in that way while essentially condoning it (and repeating it over and over) with the use of a drone aircraft or a stray missile.

[0rganism]

71. strangely enough - that's not fair to the drones and stray missiles

At first, I was inclined to agree with you, but something about it didn't sit right with me, and I think I've figured out why.

A stray missile may well kill a family of innocents, but it will never rape them. It knows no hatred or fear in what it does or fails to do. It never questions whether or not that which inhabits its destination is human, and takes no pleasure in dishonoring its victims. The missile simply flies where its guidance system controls it to fly, and explodes on arrival. There is no moral choice involved.

Upon reflection, the crime of using such devices seems less than that of deploying soldiers indoctrinated to disregard the lives of those they're ostensibly "liberating". Both methods result in wrongful death, but only one creates a hate-fueled criminal along the way.

[toastbutter]

14. Isn't that true in every war?

this war is particularly egregious, but it's a sad fact that dehumanizing the enemy is par for the course. We did it with the "japs and the krauts", god knows the Japanese did it with the Chinese, etc. etc.

[Orsino]

43. And atrocities such as this happen in every war.

When we go to war, this is part of what we're promoting.

[Hydra]

53. +1000

Every war plays out like this, and every war people nod sagely and say "We're not like that- we have justice on our side."

IMO, war is an excuse to suspend the laws and act like savages. We do that part rather well.

[awoke_in_2003]

63. and that is why (and it may sound corny...

and idealistic) we should listen to John Lennon just ONCE- "all we are saying, is give peace a chance". This country seem entirely incapable of that.

[Cid_B]

74. Because it is just a warm fuzzy sentiment...

... and nothing more. The reality of the world is entirely different.

[awoke_in_2003]

82. "The reality of the world is entirely different"...

yes, unfortunately, it is. But which country is the one that is constantly fostering war? If what Lennon had to say is nothing but a fuzzy sentiment, then I want to live where he does.- because fuzzy ain't all that bad.

[phasma ex machina]

23. +1 Military rivalry "humor" always dehumanizes the butt of the joke. nt

[WinkyDink]

35. In a way. But he is still a villain, as was Lt. Calley.

[martymar64]

76. Who inicidentally walks around as a free man in Augusta,GA

The fact that he is alive and not in prison still for his horrific war crimes is proof of the obscenity and insanity of our value system when it comes to war.

[OhioBlue]

10. just wow.

I hate what war does to these young men and I do truly believe that a lot of the blame lies with his superiors all the way up to the CIC...

But - as I read the article, I never got the feeling that he was truly remorseful as one who was temporarily insane at the time and now devastated by his own actions. I just don't see it. I feel he is more remorseful about his circumstances rather than his actions. I think the jury was right to sentence him to 5 life terms.

I am glad he is speaking out - it does shed light to the situation. I hope he continues to speak out and self-evaluate.

Very sad. Very tragic.

[HowHasItComeToThis]

15. VIDEO GAMES DESTROY FEELINGS

[freshwest]

20. And they use to them to train children and them recruit them.

[HowHasItComeToThis]

21. ALL VERY WELL PLANNED

[ixion]

28. No, they don't...

Our government on the other hand, does so quite handily.

[awoke_in_2003]

65. I used to believe that...

I am not quite so sure anymore. We have become de-sensitized to a lot of things. I remember when "The Exorcist" first came out- it scared the bejeebus out of me. I saw the 25 year re-release, and was like "Meh". There is always a mental disconnect in war- I just think the incessant violence just makes the disconnect easier.

[Ohio Joe]

31. No... No, they don't

Blaming video games for the insanity of war makes no sense, screaming it makes even less.

[awoke_in_2003]

66. while I mildly disagree with you...

I agree that screaming is quite unnecessary.

[Chorophyll]

54. The dehumanization of one's "enemy"

was part of war years (thousands of years) before anyone ever imagined a video game.

[Kurovski]

56. It's in The Good Book.

as it is called in some circles.

[awoke_in_2003]

67. I like Doyle Hargraves...

(from Slingblade) summation of the Bible- "this one begat that one, and that one begat this one, and lo and behold somebody does some shit" :)

[NobleCynic]

72. Right. Of course they do.

Take it down, drop the allcaps, and try actually talking to a gamer before you white wash an entire medium of entertainment you obviously understand very little if anything about.

People have been committing atrocities against one another for centuries. Unless you can come up with solid statistics proving a link between video games and rape you had better sit down. The 1st Amendment doesn't end where your personal tastes dictate, thankfully.

[Alameda]

49. I think he is a psychopath.

He does what he wants and thinks he can get away with. He is a classic case, just not a very successful one.

[Amonester]

12. Goebbels would be proud of him.

His 'legacy' is not dead.

Only ignored.

:cry:

[HowHasItComeToThis]

13. PROBLEM IS LEADERSHIP

He also cited a lack of leadership and help from the Army.

[TroglodyteScholar]

38. Well clearly he has a good head on his shoulders, so we should agree with all his conclusions.

Gimme a fucking break.

[LibDemAlways]

16. To that soldier the Iraqi girl and her family represented

"the enemy." Armies need enemies or they serve no purpose. Seems to me it's a whole lot easier to harm "the enemy" if you first dehumanize him, which seems to be what happened here.

[Foo Fighter]

17. Sickening.

From the article linked in the OP:

"Spc. James P. Barker of Fresno, California, testified that he pitched the idea of going to the al-Janabi family's home to Sgt. Paul E. Cortez of Barstow, California, who was in charge of the traffic checkpoint.

Green, who talked frequently of wanting to kill Iraqis, was brought along.

Cortez testified that Barker and Green had the idea of having sex with the girl and that he didn't know the family would be killed.

...

Pfc. Jesse V. Spielman, of Chambersburg, Pennsylvania, stood guard in the hall. As Barker and Cortez raped the teen, Green shot the three family members, killing them."

Anyone that equates "rape" with "having sex" needs to be locked up. Same goes for anyone that guns down innocent, unarmed people because he "wanted to kill Iraqis."

That said, the indoctrination and "dehumanization" crap the military spews at these kids needs to stop. Better yet, slash the DoD budget to 1/4 of what it currently is and have it serve the intended purpose of defending the nation instead of nation building for the sole purpose of increasing corporate profits and everyone would be better off.

[HowHasItComeToThis]

22. SHOULD BE DEPT OF DEFENSE... NOT AGRESSION

BUT WITH UNEMPLOYMENT SO HIGH..... ONLY JOBS AROUND

[Foo Fighter]

24. I understand.

I can see how enlisting might be the "only way out" for the poor and unemployed. However, by slashing the DoD budget to 1/4, they can take a good part of that savings and start a much-needed WPA in the country that would create jobs and rebuild much-needed infrastructure at the same time.

Serving in the military should be an option but it shouldn't be the ONLY option.

[Guilded Lilly]

18. I abhor war.

I understand the theory of breaking down a soldier to rebuild them as fighting machines.

"Fueled in part" Right.
And the other part is him being a cold blooded rapist and killer.

He is where he should be...behind bars for an atrocious and despicable act of cowardly, premeditated violence against a child and her family.

[PassingFair]

41. That's why I had to pull my car over and CRY while prominent democrats

voted with GWB to support the IWR.

I still don't forgive and I
will never forget their cynical
enabling of this war.

[azurnoir]

25. Hardly unique- I would say that most people in our company didn't consider the Vietnamese human.

that was from a soldier charged in the My Lai Massacre

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre

the really disturbing part was that I was told by relatives and friends that were there My Lai was hardly unique except in the numbers killed and that word of it 'got out' it was the way that war was fought on almost a daily basis and I wonder if the same is not true in Iraq

[Alameda]

50. I think that is why most vets don't want to talk about war. From

what I've heard, horrible things happen in all wars.

[Swamp Rat]

26. Bring home the troops. eom

[blueamy66]

27. FUCK HIM

Love our military.....

[malaise]

29. That was the excuse others gave for slavery

Fuck him

[GCP]

30. Dear God, Bush as a lot to answer for. eom

[earth mom]

83. Not just Bush but Obama too and the rest of Congress who refuse to stop the wars. nt

[WinkyDink]

34. BRINGING FREEDOM and DEMOCRACY. Thank GOD we saved this girl from Sadam.

[no_hypocrisy]

36. Being trained to dehumanize people allows soldiers to commit atrocities.

Part of the modus operandi of war.

[L0oniX]

45. +1

[tabasco]

37. Just a sociopathic POS who joined the military.

Blaming all his crimes on something else.

[WhiteTara]

39. IIRC, he wanted to go to Iraq to kill some

did he call them "towelheads" or something just as ugly? He was happy to murder and should not have been allowed in the army, but the recruiters have quotas. Now he wants us to understand he didn't really do these terrible things (could he be having trouble sleeping at night?), the army made - let - encouraged - him to murder a family and rape a child and then kill her in a horrific way.

[WhiteTara]

40. now he has remorse

In prison, Green converted to Catholicism and has corresponded with a nun in Louisville about his faith.

Green described prison life as a 'lonely existence' and said other inmates consider those convicted of sex offenses among the lowest, making life 'hazardous' among the general prison population.

For Green, each day is just a matter of getting through 24 hours so he can do it all again the next day. Meanwhile, he lives with memories of the attack that took away the Iraqi family.

'If I thought that was an OK thing now, I wouldn't be much of a human being,' Green said.


I still don't think he is much of a human being.

[arcane1]

44. Sounds like testimony straight out of "Winter Soldiers"

War fucking sucks :(

[Enthusiast]

46. Hey! Lighten up!

At least the guy wasn't namby pamby.

[Puregonzo1188]

48. Killing another human being goes against everything we're taught by society. Therefore, in a war

the enemy has to be dehumanized. Then things like this happen. It's a horrible tragedy, but it's the natural outcome of war.

[Iggo]

51. I wonder how he did on his Spiritual Fitness test.

The fuck.

[tblue37]

55. I read an article once by a reporter who had interviewed this

man for an article before the rape and murder. This young man actually told the reporter that he enlisted because he wanted to kill people. I don't think war made him a killer. I think he was someone who looked at the idea of being in a war zone as an opportunity to act out his desire to kill, but believed he would be able to do so with no consequences simply because he was in a war zone. Furthermore, there was enough such murdering of Iraqi civilians--and without consequences for the murderers--that he had reason to believe he and his buddies would easily get away with what they did. In fact, I am quite sure that many, many innocent Iraqis died in similar circumstances, but their murderers were never brought to justice.

[defendandprotect]

58. ...and military recruiters and officials had no idea of this?

[tblue37]

73. They let gangbangers into the Army to get warm bodies for

the war. I doubt they cared.

[defendandprotect]

79. Think it's more than that ... these are the people they want ....

over decades you can see that in who they recruit for police departments,

etal --

at time of coup on JFK, 50% of the Dallas police force were KKK --

at time of coup on RFK, 50% of the LAPD were John Birchers --

We here in NJ have had very racist police enforcement and during Clinton years

NJ police were taken under supervision --



What kind of people are willing to spend their days in such violent cirumstances

as our prisons, for instance -- especially doing body cavity searches every day -- ???

[defendandprotect]

57. Who teaches the demonizing of Iraqis but US govenrment?

"Most brutal army we've ever raised" ....

[Rocknrule]

60. And remember, anyone who opposes this is an anti-American traitor!

:grr:

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AmandaMae]

64. he's the one who isn't human

[Prometheus Bound]

68. Exactly my thoughts. I don't consider him human.

[lumberjack_jeff]

69. I hope that he never was.

Because if he once was, but isn't now, it's our fault.

[MrMickeysMom]

70. I think that excuse had a better chance in the antebellum era

Maybe this explains why military testing scores are low...

Just who are they recruiting? Is it lack of leadership, is it the fact that our "mission" in Iraq and Afghanistan has caused our leaders to go insane first?

[B Calm]

75. He thought she was human enough to have sex with her before killing

her. I think we know who was not acting human and it wasn't the Iraqis!

[yellowwood]

77. Guess what?

A great many Americans would agree with him. They don't see people on the other side of the world as "human." Otherwise, how can they so willingly go to war in these countries without a second thought. Anybody who pays any attention would learn that most of war's victims are children.

[sabrina 1]

78. Her name was Abeer ~

Abeer Qassim Hamza at the age of seven.

Mahmudiya Killings

Abeer Hamza lived with her mother and father (Fakhriya Taha Muhasen, 34, and Qassim Hamza Raheem, 45, respectively) and their three other children, a daughter – 6-year-old Hadeel Qassim Hamza, a son – 11-year-old Mohammed and his 9-year-old younger brother Ahmed. Their house was situated approximately 200 meters (220 yd) from a six-man U.S. traffic checkpoint,<7> southwest of the village of Yusufiyah, which lies west of the larger township of Al-Mahmudiyah (in the coalition-termed area "Triangle of Death").<8>

According to her neighbours, Abeer spent most of her days at home as her parents would not allow her to go to school because of security concerns. From their checkpoint, the American soldiers would often watch Abeer doing her chores and tending the garden. The neighbours had warned Abeer's father of this, but he replied it was not a problem as she was just a small girl.<8>

Abeer's brother Mohammed (who survived along with his younger brother due to being at school at the time of the killings) recalls that the soldiers often searched the house. And on one such occasion PFC Steven Dale Green ran his index finger down Abeer's cheek, an action which had terrified the 14-year-old girl.<9>

Abeer's mother told her relatives before the murders that, whenever she caught the soldiers staring at Abeer, they would give her the thumbs-up sign, point to her daughter and say "Very good, very good." Evidently this had concerned her and she made plans for Abeer to spend nights sleeping at her uncle's (Ahmad Qassim's) house.<9><10>

On March 12, 2006, the soldiers (from the 502nd Infantry Regiment) at the checkpoint had been drinking alcohol and discussing plans to rape Abeer.<11> In broad daylight they walked to the house (not wearing their uniforms)<12> and separated Abeer and her family into two different rooms. Steven Green then murdered her parents and younger sister, while two other soldiers raped Abeer. He then emerged from the room saying "I just killed them, all are dead".<13> He then raped Abeer, shot her in the head and proceeded (along with the other soldiers) to set fire to the house and bodies.

America's Shame

The man who directly institutionalized cruel sessions of interrogation in Abu Ghraib was Major-General Geoffrey Miller, the Guantanamo commander who flew to Abu Ghraib to "Gitmo-ize the confinement operation" there. There followed the increased use of painful shackling and the frequent forcible stripping of prisoners. Maj-Gen Miller's report following his visit in 2003 spoke of the need for a detention guard force at Abu Ghraib that "sets the conditions for the successful interrogation and exploitation of the internees/detainees". According to Gen Karpinski, Maj-Gen Miller said the prisoners "are like dogs, and if you allow them to believe they're more than a dog, then you've lost control of them".

I wonder how Gen. Miller treats dogs? Well, it doesn't matter. He is a protected species in this country, no doubt invited to the best parties, telling 'war stories' and looked up to and admired. Did he get medal too?

Sanchez, another war criminal received a medal AFTER the release of Taguba's report pointing to him as one of those responsible for the torture.

Rumsfeld another brutal war criminal, is enjoying the spoils of war and is no doubt a coveted guest at cocktail parties also. And Bush/Cheney are writing their memoirs in their luxury homes with no fear of prosecution.

Abeer's two surviving brothers are being raised by their uncle. The family received no compensation and at the time of the trial, no one was able to find them.

Two U.S. soldiers were captured and tortured to death in revenge for Abeer's and her family's murder and a suicide bombing was reported to have been to get revenge also. We will never know how many 'terrorists' this incident alone created.

History will not absolve us no matter how we tell the world how wonderful we are. And Obama's recently revealed by Wilikleaks' interference to protect six of the war criminals from prosecution in Spain, ends all hope of either party bringing anyone to justice for these horrendous crimes against humanity.

[oberliner]

80. Her parents and six year old sister were murdered as well

What a horrific story.

[Odin2005]

81. Monster.

[earth mom]

84. Obama, Congress & the rest of the Warmongers in DC are to thank for this.

For Shame on them! :puke: