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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 07:57 AM
Original message
Glenn Greenwald Tweet -- Manning being TORTURED?
ggreenwald Glenn Greenwald
A major story brewing is the cruel, inhumane treatment - torture - to which Bradley Manning is being subjected: more to come shortly.


OMG.
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 07:58 AM
Response to Original message
1. Torture??? WTF?
What have the republicons started with their evil torture fetish?

Bottom of the pit shit.
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snot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #1
43. Manning is the US's only card: they probably have no legal charge against WL
unless they extract a "confession" from Manning that WL conspired or at least actively solicited him to leak the cables.

And once the US gets their hands on Assange, they can pre-occupy him/WL indefinitely with their investigation/prosecution (a la Clinton).
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #43
84. (1:51:25 PM) bradass87: i'd have to ask assange , Lets see how conspiracy works..
that is the angle. he will cooperate or he will suffer other consequences. Unlike most espionage cases the evidence of the crime is in the clear.
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TheMadMonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #84
98. Assange has committed no fucking crime.
YOUR whole ruddy nation is corrupt from top to bottom and it is very clear from your many posts on the subject, that the black eye these leaks give America is of far greater concern to you, than the actual crimes committed in America's name.

Were you the same cheerleader for Bush that you have been for Obama as he continues AND EXPANDS on the policies of the previous administration?
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #98
107. Well That decleration sums it all up then..
if he conspired with manning during a crime that means he can stand trial here.
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Ellipsis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #107
115. Wikileaker in Solitary
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #115
118. And he will die that way. In florence co. if he is lucky
he should get the needle but will trade that to testify for the government.
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Ellipsis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #118
120. What alll the hubbub... bub. NPR weighs in.
Edited on Wed Dec-15-10 06:16 PM by Ellipsis

The furor surrounding WikiLeaks' release of confidential United States government documents has focused reams of attention on transparency advocate Julian Assange. Largely lost amid all of the hubbub has been Bradley Manning, the Army private who allegedly provided the documents to WikiLeaks.


http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2010/12/15/13208480...
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TheMadMonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #107
128. And if the only "evidence" is a confession obtained under "enhanced...
...interrogation", as is being suggested in the OP, where do you stand?

You needn't bother actually. You have repeatedly made it abundantly clear that in your opinion the law and even millions of lives are very much secondary to America's black eye, and your nation's practice of operating without legal checks and ballances and without regard for international law.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #128
133. boingboing tortured his ass...
to telling lamo how cool he was.
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n2doc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 08:00 AM
Response to Original message
2. If True, then we really didn't make any change in 2008
Same Shit, different president.
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GReedDiamond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #2
75. Not quite the same, as torturing an American military...
...serviceman/American citizen such as Manning brings it up to a new level of depravity...if this turns out to be true.
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MrMickeysMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #2
77. We can still assassinate US citizens in foreign countries...
So, what's not to stay the same?

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Foo Fighter Donating Member (621 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #2
86. Well, that's been obvious since Obama started announcing his Cabinet picks.
It was obvious to some of us well before the so-called "primary wars" of 2008.
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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 08:00 AM
Response to Original message
3. It happened in the past so we must move forward
mushrooms clouds and everything...
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keepfreespeechalive Donating Member (27 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #3
51. I'm sorry, can you help me? I seem to have lost somthing of mine down the memory hole? n/t
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 08:01 AM
Response to Original message
4. What is there to get out of the guy?
He took everything he could get his hands on and gave it to wikileaks
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Democracyinkind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Perhaps a ticking time bomb?

Or other baseless conservative fantasies?

Who knows.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. if only it were relagated to just conservative fantasies.
paranoia about control of information -- the single most important building block in an open democracy --
is increasingly shared by lots of people who in the past you might have thought as being on your side.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 09:55 PM
Original message
Testimony. He testafies and gets life or rufuses and is executed.
he dumped it all already, generally espionage trials like ames dont have death penalty because the want to limit distribution of information. Poor manning does not have that card.

so bradass87 can snitch or die, in the parlance of our times..

illegal treatment of him is pointless, he is already going to live a miserable life in prison, he just gets to decide if old age or the needle gets him.

no claims yet, just some tweets, that is fact now?
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MrMickeysMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #4
76. Perhaps brain washing?
What, would we then be convinced that what he took part in was an evil terrorist plot?
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #76
79. no he confessed online , google bradass87
put himself behind bars for life with his chats. Maybe earned a death penalty.
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glinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #76
88. Using the Scientology methods.
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glinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #76
89. Dupe deleted
Edited on Wed Dec-15-10 12:36 AM by glinda
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glinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #4
87. They can make him turn against Assange.....
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lamp_shade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 08:01 AM
Response to Original message
5. OMG. This is HUGE.
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LaurenG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 08:02 AM
Response to Original message
6. How disgusting. The United States of Torture. I so hope this isn't true
yet somehow I wouldn't put it past those in charge; those trying to protect themselves and their corporate masters. I'm really surpised he hasn't "suicided" himself yet. :eyes:
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vi5 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 08:09 AM
Response to Original message
9. Impossible...
Obama banned torture. It's on "the list".
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #9
16. must be allowed if administration members suffer embarrassment.
:mad:
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 08:12 AM
Response to Original message
10. This planet has gone mad
Promoting fear is all they have
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keepfreespeechalive Donating Member (27 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #10
53. This country has gone mad n/t
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glinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #53
90. Yes. I have also thought so. I know so.
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 08:14 AM
Response to Original message
11. the un-reccers on this should be ashamed
Seriously, are you THAT sick that you'd cover up on this? Speaks volumes about our *American values*.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. recommend
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brooklynite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #11
20. Unrec'd
The OP offers no excerpt or citation. I can find nothing in Glenn Greewald's blog or in a news search.

You need a story before you can cover it up...
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. did you bother to READ it -- it's a tweet.
:wow:
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #20
24. Don't you just love DU's...
shoot-first, ask-questions-later brigade?

Too funny.
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lamp_shade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. Same old... same old
Yes. I'm enjoying watching to see where this goes.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #20
29. Try Twitter. I found it.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #20
54. Greenwald tweeted that last night.
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GentryDixon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #20
57. Agree.
We have become so gullible.

Unrec for lack of proof.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #57
63. Rec'd because when Greenwald says he has information,
he means it. Here is his tweet:

http://twitter.com/ggreenwald/statuses/1466841793193574...

Btw, are you really saying that you do not believe the U.S. military would torture someone? Have you not read about the U.S. soldiers held right here in this country for refusing to go IRaq eg, and how they are treated?

It is a country now where it is far safer to assume that someone like Manning is being tortured than to have faith that this country will abide by the rule of law and treat him in a humanitarian way. That's just the way it is. Because we do not prosecute torturers in the U.S.
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #11
34. Unrec for complaining about unrec...
And because Greenwald is less than reliable and prone to hyperbole.

Sid
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catnhatnh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #34
44. Rec
to counter spurious unrec.
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. A spurious rec to counter a spurious unrec...
:rofl:

Sid
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #11
59. Just their "American" values.
I still think the base of every thread should list the names of reccers and unreccers. Why not? They can unrec without kicking but still be named. Surely they must be proud of their own opinions... no matter how creepy we find them.
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 03:08 AM
Response to Reply #11
92. It's a freaking Tweet, not a Pulitzer-winning investigation. nt
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 08:15 AM
Response to Original message
12. Ugh!
:-(
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Pab Sungenis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 08:16 AM
Response to Original message
13. Torture against an American Citizen?
Is it against DU rules to say that if Obama authorized this then he SHOULD be impeached?
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #13
30. I don't think so though there are probably some that would object.
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kgnu_fan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
15. torture ...
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 08:25 AM
Response to Original message
17. Of course they're torturing him. It is now our way.
Edited on Tue Dec-14-10 08:26 AM by TexasObserver
The Bush legacy is this - the widespread acceptance of torture as a tool our government uses to coerce cooperation, to force self incrimination, and just to be mean and nasty as a matter of course.

Unfortunately, the Obama legacy in this regard will be that he lacked the courage and commitment to stop it, weakly continuing the practices.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #17
27. Actually, it was Clinton who began the extraordinary rendition
program, you know - "snatch them up and ship them out to nations who torture" program. GWB just expanded upon the evil used before him.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #27
60. Indeed. Not that there wasn't plenty of torture under Bush I. School of Americas.
And lets not forget Nixon and Kissinger and Pinochet's Chile.

But this new generation I refer to as Obubya (Clinton is in there as Bubba).
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #17
47. AND to terrify the rest of us into silence and acquiescence. Don't forget THAT!
Re "The Bush legacy is this - the widespread acceptance of torture as a tool our government uses to coerce cooperation, to force self incrimination, and just to be mean and nasty as a matter of course."

I read somewhere a few years back that "torture is always public" for precisely that reason. Somehow, the reality of a policy of torture always manages to get leaked, and when it does the so-called "leaders" are belligerent and defensive about it (i.e. Bush and Cheney), but they don't deny it.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #47
61. Naomi Klein talked about how the Argentinians learned that the point of torture was intimidation
of the whole population.
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #61
132. Right - that was what I was referring to, although I forgot the specific example.
Thanks for reminding me. Intimidation of the whole population...EXACTLY!

My daughter reminded me today in a phone conversation that police brutality serves the same purpose at mass demonstrations here in the U.S. She knows what she's talking about too--her boyfriend was badly injured and could have been killed by a taser at RNC 2008, and both of them were arrested on trumped-up charges.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #132
137. Kudos to your daughter and her boyfriend. You must be very proud.
I know I would be! :hi:
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 08:25 AM
Response to Original message
18. Do you have a link to Greenwald's coverage?
:shrug:
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. he hasn't got a piece YET
The tweet says it will be coming.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #19
26. Someone in the press corpse needs to ask the president if he knows anything
about this .
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #26
72. Yes sir Mr Pres. , AP, is the person responsible for the largest espionage case in history
being treated nice and getting turn down service? I mean I read a tweet that he was being tortured, no sir, o dont really have any fact, yes sir, i am a doofus.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 08:32 AM
Response to Original message
21. Would that finally wake Americans up?
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lamp_shade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 08:32 AM
Response to Original message
22. This is all I could find > > From December 7th
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #22
28. Good find.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #22
32. If this is what Greenwald's claim is based on
he's an irresponsible clown.

Then again, he's having a public fight with CREW and some of his tweets make him look more like an disturbed attention seeker.

Seriously, tweeting about someone being tortured based on a blog post about solitary confinement?
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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #32
35. Why are you going out of your way to bash Greenwald?
Suggesting that a solitary blog post about Manning being held in solitary confinement isn't evidence of torture is one thing. But going on from there to call Greenwald a "disturbed attention seeker" seems like getting into shoot-the-messenger territory.

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #35
36. Out of my way?
Is he above criticism? I think a lot of his arguments are bogus.

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Ramulux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #36
55. Name one
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lamp_shade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #32
38. And will ya just lookit the "buyer's market" here?
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #32
56. Greenwald is a far more respected source than
just about any of our media puppets. He's been proven right over and over again. If he says he's got good information on something, then he has as always.

But aside from that, most of us assumed that he AND assange would be tortured if they were to get into the hands of the U.S. For that reason, neither Sweden nor Britain will be able to hand over Assange as human rights groups around the world will be fighting to keep him out of the hands of a country where torture is a policy.

It's shameful that anyone would in any way try to defend those policies, or not hold those responsible accountable. We are now in the same league as Saudi Arabia, a country to which no civilized nation would hand over anyone.

The fact that Manning is being held with no access to the media or to anyone, is enough to arouse suspicions about a country that sees nothing wrong with torture.

This president needs to have the courage to issue an order that Manning be treated in accordance with the rule of law. But we all know that is not going to happen. There was a time when I would have expected it of him, but no anymore.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #56
62. The failure to restore Habeas Corpus is the most egregious indictment of the current administration.
There is no way around it, no way to spin it.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #62
99. I couldn't agree more. There has not even been any effort to do so.
There was actually more of an effort during the Bush Administration by Democrats. Now, they all seem to be silent on the issue.
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #32
82. You are being obviously partisan.
You never, ever post anything that isn't cheering for this administration, or attacking anyone who dares to contradict this administration in even the slightest way.

You are both obvious and predictable.
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #82
131. Yep.
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 09:02 AM
Response to Original message
31. I was wondering if it was Peyton or Eli
But who is Bradley?

-Hoot
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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 09:05 AM
Response to Original message
33. This may be getting raised as an argument against extraditing Assange
Which is not to say it may not be true -- but I think it's significant that one grounds for refusing extradition is that the person is likely to be subject to torture or mistreatment by the requesting nation. So any information on how Manning is being treated would be significant as Assange fights any extradition from the UK that could wind up -- either directly or eventually -- with him in US hands.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extradition

Most countries require themselves to deny extradition requests if, in the government's opinion, the suspect is sought for a political crime. Many countries and areas, such as Canada, Macao, Mexico, and most European nations, will not allow extradition if the death penalty may be imposed on the suspect unless they are assured that the death sentence will not be passed or carried out. ... Parties to the European Convention also cannot extradite people where they would be at significant risk of being tortured inhumanely or degradingly treated or punished.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_3_of_the_European_...

Article 3 of the European Convention on Human Rights prohibits torture, and "inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment". There are no exceptions or limitations on this right.

This provision usually applies, apart from torture, to cases of severe police violence and poor conditions in detention. The European Court of Human Rights has further held that this provision prohibits the extradition of a person to a foreign state if they are likely to be subjected there to torture.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Rights_Act_1998

The Human Rights Act 1998 c.42 is an Act of Parliament of the United Kingdom which received Royal Assent on 9 November 1998, and mostly came into force on 2 October 2000. Its aim is to "give further effect" in UK law to the rights contained in the European Convention on Human Rights. . . .



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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #33
40. Could be.
Of course, kangaroo courts and bogus legal prosecutions (such as in our tribunals) aren't internationally recognized either.
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Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
37. Unrec.
No factual evidence to back up assertation, pure speculation.

Makes people here look like loons.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #37
41. The op was mentioning a tweet.
That tweet is supposedly to be followed with a story. Then we will know either way. Should no one mention such a tweet?
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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #41
96. It's acceptable to mention a tweet
But the speed at which it rec'd I find interesting
It's a tweet with a few vague pieces of information
When the story comes out then I'd be willing to consider a recommend

I realize I'm not the person you responded to, but I'm just kicking in my opinion
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pacalo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
39. I'm not surprised -- I've been thinking that it was probably happening.
I wonder if Assange fared any better. He's supposed to appear in the British court soon; we'll find out about his condition.
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ipaint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #39
42. Assange was just granted bail per greenwald tweet. nt
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
46. OMG...this can't be true. This better NOT be true!
But I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if it is. What is this country anyway? The United States of America? I don't recognize this country any more.
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glinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #46
91. Just why do you think no one has seen this man huh? Torturing him into a new story.
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TorchTheWitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 03:44 AM
Response to Reply #91
93. who says no one has???
To claim he's being tortured because he's not been in the media spotlight is ludicrous. He's in PRISON. A tightly secured military prison. He has access to his family and his attorneys and whoever the people are that are fundraising for him to pay his legal expenses since Wikileaks left him in the learch... even though they specifically collected money for him on the Wikileaks site, not one cent of it has been turned over while all requests for an explanation have been ignored.

His own family, attorneys and financial supporters say not one word anywhere about any torture yet people here go apeshit about some demented tweet from a journalist with absolutely nothing to back it up.

If anyone is so concerned about Manning then why aren't they demanding from Wikileaks WHERE IS THE MONEY YOU COLLECTED FOR HIM???


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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
48. K&R. THese people are out of control.
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
49. Has Greenwald posted his story confirming this yet?...nt
Sid
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PufPuf23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. "We" should not have to consider whether or not torture of Manning is true.
The very idea that there is a posssibility and that there are those at DU who would shoot the messenger is surreal in a democracy of laws.

Unfortunately that is not reality.
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EmeraldCityGrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
52. This is the same administration that authorized the assassination of a US citizen
Explain to me why an administration capable of THAT is not capable of torture. Why
are we surprised at anything that comes out any longer? This all needs to be confirmed
but to act as if it's totally out of the realm of possibility is naive at best.



"The Obama administration has taken the extraordinary step of authorizing the targeted killing of an American citizen, the radical Muslim cleric Anwar al-Awlaki, who is believed to have shifted from encouraging attacks on the United States to directly participating in them, intelligence and counterterrorism officials said Tuesday. . . ."

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/...

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coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #52
80. Torture is as American as cherry pie (with apologies to H. Rap Brown) - n/t
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
58. I Wouldn't Be Surprised
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
64. Any confirmation yet?...
Edited on Tue Dec-14-10 08:43 PM by SidDithers
It's been, what, 12 hours?. Surely he must have confirmation on such an earth-shattering story by now.

Sid
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Ellipsis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
65. From what I read in some of Greenwalds tweets...
It could be anything from Isolation to mefloquine in his oatmeal... who knows but it sounded more like his GUARDS are fucking with him not that there's any covert organized effort to actively torture him by the "Homeland".
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Gaedel Donating Member (802 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #65
67. Isolation
Is he in isolation to torture him or is he in isolation to protect him from the general population?
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Ellipsis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #67
69. Who knows if he's even in isolation. That's not what I said.
Edited on Tue Dec-14-10 09:48 PM by Ellipsis
It's more like the Stanford prison experiment combined with Maslovs Hierarchy of needs.



The Stanford prison experiment was a study of the psychological effects of becoming a prisoner or prison guard. The experiment was conducted from Aug. 14-20, 1971 by a team of researchers led by Psychology professor Philip Zimbardo at Stanford University. Twenty-four students were selected out of 75 to play the prisoners and live in a mock prison in the basement of the Stanford psychology building. Roles were assigned randomly. The participants adapted to their roles well beyond what even Zimbardo himself expected, leading the "Officers" to display authoritarian measures and ultimately to subject some of the prisoners to torture. In turn, many of the prisoners developed passive attitudes and accepted physical abuse, and, at the request of the guards, readily inflicted punishment on other prisoners who attempted to stop it. The experiment even affected Zimbardo himself, who, in his capacity as "Prison Superintendent," lost sight of his role as psychologist and permitted the abuse to continue as though it were a real prison. Five of the prisoners were upset enough by the process to quit the experiment early, and the entire experiment was abruptly stopped after only six days.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #69
73. Guess bradass87 did not read that study before confessing
to espionage in public.
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Ellipsis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #73
74. Guess it's not the guards job to administer justice because of a lack of discipline
Edited on Tue Dec-14-10 10:21 PM by Ellipsis
... and maybe they aren't... perhaps we should just see if brings out an article and what it says.


I'm not protecting the guy. I only point out that our society and many in it have become more fucked up by a particular tack some people take by applauding and encouraging breaking the law as form of patriotism ... when their actions are completely opposite what the founding fathers of this country had in mind when came to individual rights.


I will say this... this bullshit vigilantism that seemed to be encouraged in the previous administration and this fucked strategy of polarization will effect us for generations.

But have at it bub.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #74
78. Based on some dudes tweet? is there even copy on this yet?
come on this is a shit source, makes commondreams look like reuters. If someone broke the rules they should be punished, could mess up the case against manning and assange.
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Ellipsis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #78
81. Some Greenwald Tweets
# reasonable - part of it is just anger over what's being done to him - but you'll see when it's published - won't be long. about 6 hours ago via web in reply to Semishark

# You're wrong about the impact of the tweet - it caused phone calls to them - if you want to say it'd be better to wait, that's... about 6 hours ago via web in reply to Semishark

# I have the evidence - all I need - just waiting for a couple comments from people who should comment before it's written. about 6 hours ago via web in reply to Semishark

# Because I wanted the Marine jailers to know it's known, they're being watched, and a story is coming - to pressure them to stop about 6 hours ago via web in reply to Semishark

# I said it's coming soon. It was a preview. And it is: very soon. I have the clear basis for saying it, as you will see.


Greenwald ain't no putz...

Glenn Greenwald (born 6 March 1967) is a US lawyer, columnist, blogger, and author. Greenwald worked as a constitutional and civil rights litigator prior to becoming a contributor (columnist and blogger) to Salon.com, where he focuses on political and legal topics. He has also contributed to other newspapers and political news magazines, including The New York Times, The Los Angeles Times, The American Conservative, The National Interest, and In These Times.

Greenwald is the author of three books: How Would a Patriot Act? (2006) and A Tragic Legacy (2007), both New York Times bestsellers; and Great American Hypocrites (2008).


How many New York Times Best Sellers do you have?
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #81
83. As many lines of G-code as he has written
whats your point? manning is a traitor. he admitted it online. He will either die in prison an old man or die from lethal injection. breadass87 confessed.

His agenda does not change mannings position. He can either name names and facts or not, his call.

Empty claim until backed.
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Ellipsis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #83
85. Got a linkie to that?
Edited on Tue Dec-14-10 11:36 PM by Ellipsis
I guess my point is you don't offer much in the form of credibility. Because of your need to disparage Greenwald.

G-code? Pardon my naivety, but I don't think he's programming Allen Bradley boxes....
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #85
94. Did the facts ever materialize here? did they put bradass87 on the rack?(nt)
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Capitalocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #94
97. Step 1. Deny, deny, deny.
When it is proven, then comes the justification. See you then.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #97
108. Sooo. did the facts ever materialize here?(nt)
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Ellipsis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #108
111. They did... welcome back.
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Ellipsis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #108
112. Bradley Manning, WikiLeaks Leaker, Tortured By U.S.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #112
114. Haha, good what a joke. No sheets to hang himself with and solitary.
he better get used to that. He will die in florence ADX living the rest of his life without direct sunlight or verbal contact with anyone other than guards.

solitary confinement is recognized as difficult to withstand...


fucking riot.
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Ellipsis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #114
122. Black America weighs in - The Inhumane Detention Of WikiLeaks Leaker Bradley Manning
Virginia Bradley Manning, the 22-year-old U.S. Army Private accused of leaking classified documents to WikiLeaks, has never been convicted of that crime, nor of any other crime.


http://newsone.com/world/newsonestaff2/bradley-manning-...
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #122
124. Dont worry, bradass will be spending lots of time in prison
after he is convicted, you can read his confession online..
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Capitalocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #114
127. Try it
See how you like it.

Extended solitary confinement is considered torture in civilized countries. The only way they can get away with it is claiming he's too much of a risk to place in the general populace, and that he's a suicide risk. Which is a bit of a stretch in and of itself, and doesn't explain why he's not allowed to watch the news.

But you know that. From your tone it's clear that you want him to suffer. It's too bad they have to come up with excuses like that, isn't it? They should just be able to torture him for no reason.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #127
134. yeppers bradass gets to serve time like the unibomber and pollard
those are the breaks.
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Ellipsis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #78
119. Here's the Slatetest
Is Bradley Manning Being Tortured?

Does prolonged solitary confinement constitute torture? If it does, the United States has been torturing an American citizen for the last seven months, even though he hasn't been charged with a crime. That's what Glenn Greenwald argues in a piece for Salon, reporting that since accused WikiLeaks leaker Bradley Manning was arrested in June, he's been considered a "Maximum Custody Detainee." He spends 23 hours a day alone in his cell, where he's forbidden to exercise and is denied "many of the most basic attributes of civilized imprisonment," including a pillow or sheets. He receives a daily dose of antidepressants from the doctor at the Quantico, Va., brig where he is being held. While no one contends that Manning has been physically harmed during his imprisonment, Greenwald points out that last year The New Yorker's Atul Gawande, a surgeon and Slate contributor, wrote that "all human beings experience isolation as torture." Earlier this year, The Journal of the American Academy of Psychiatry and the Law said, "psychological stressors such as isolation can be as clinically distressing as physical torture." Manning, Greenwald says, is experiencing "inhumane, personality-erasing, soul-destroying, insanity-inducing conditions of isolation similar to those perfected at America's Supermax prison in Florence, Colo.: all without so much as having been convicted of anything."

http://slatest.slate.com/id/2278151/
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #119
121. Boy, he has lots of that to look forward to. Florence
or Leavenworth both suck.
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Ellipsis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #121
123. Even the geeks... Tech dirt- weighs in
US Is Apparently Torturing Bradley Manning, Despite No Trial And No Conviction


from the this-is-not-the-america-we-were-told-about dept

While there's been a ton of attention paid to Julian Assange's arrest and situation, much less attention has been paid to Bradley Manning, the Army Private who has been accused of being the source of many of Wikileaks' more recent leaks concerning the US government and military. It seemed like a reasonable question to ask, upon his arrest, whether or not he was simply whistleblowing or breaking the law. Certainly this is a question that is open for debate. What is pretty clear is that his intentions were absolutely to be a whistleblower.

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20101215/09551812291/u...


"Tis going Viral...
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #123
125. It can go ebola, no one cares. he admitted to what he did and will be convicted
his motives are irrelevant. he will die behind bars, bet on it. he admitted it online google bradass87, read, he is done.
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Ellipsis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #125
126. It's not about what he did... it's about the treatment he's getting... of course you know that.
I had no clue who this guy was when this was first posted. As to his guilt neither you or I will decide it. Nor do I have an opinion on it.

But to his treatment you bet, and as it appears now so does the world... and it is being discussed.

Thanks for the "kicks" and that whole "top of awareness thing."

Later gator
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Ellipsis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #65
68. .
Edited on Tue Dec-14-10 09:46 PM by Ellipsis
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krabigirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
66. Sick, just sick. Whatever his "crime," torture is a worse crime!
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Capitalocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #66
130. I would contend no crime was committed.
Crimes were uncovered. As a U.S. soldier who has sworn an oath to uphold the Constitution, he's just doing his job. I would think in a functioning democracy it would be easier to convict the soldiers who read this material and didn't say anything than it would be to convict Manning.

Unfortunately that's not the world we live in.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
70. Making his listen to gaga is not torture.
making him decide to testify about his conspiracy with assange and die in florence or not testify and die from the needle is not torture.

Manning is filth, and treating him illegally would prevent him receiving the punishment he deserves.

bradass87 is going to be a federal witness, watch and see.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-14-10 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #70
71. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 07:58 AM
Response to Original message
95. The inhumane conditions of Bradley Manning's detention~ Greenwald
Bradley Manning, the 22-year-old U.S. Army Private accused of leaking classified documents to WikiLeaks, has never been convicted of that crime, nor of any other crime. Despite that, he has been detained at the U.S. Marine brig in Quantico, Virginia for five months -- and for two months before that in a military jail in Kuwait -- under conditions that constitute cruel and inhumane treatment and, by the standards of many nations, even torture. Interviews with several people directly familiar with the conditions of Manning's detention, ultimately including a Quantico brig official (Lt. Brian Villiard) who confirmed much of what they conveyed, establishes that the accused leaker is subjected to detention conditions likely to create long-term psychological injuries.

Since his arrest in May, Manning has been a model detainee, without any episodes of violence or disciplinary problems. He nonetheless was declared from the start to be a "Maximum Custody Detainee," the highest and most repressive level of military detention, which then became the basis for the series of inhumane measures imposed on him.

From the beginning of his detention, Manning has been held in intensive solitary confinement. For 23 out of 24 hours every day -- for seven straight months and counting -- he sits completely alone in his cell. Even inside his cell, his activities are heavily restricted; he's barred even from exercising and is under constant surveillance to enforce those restrictions. For reasons that appear completely punitive, he's being denied many of the most basic attributes of civilized imprisonment, including even a pillow or sheets for his bed (he is not and never has been on suicide watch). For the one hour per day when he is freed from this isolation, he is barred from accessing any news or current events programs. Lt. Villiard protested that the conditions are not "like jail movies where someone gets thrown into the hole," but confirmed that he is in solitary confinement, isolated entirely alone in his cell except for the one hour per day he is taken out.

In sum, Manning has been subjected for many months without pause to inhumane, personality-erasing, soul-destroying, insanity-inducing conditions of isolation similar to those perfected at America's Supermax prison in Florence, Colorado: all without so much as having been convicted of anything. And as is true of many prisoners subjected to warped treatment of this sort, the brig's medical personnel now administer regular doses of anti-depressants to Manning to prevent his brain from snapping from the effects of this isolation.

more;http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/...
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #95
117. Funny they mention Florence, that is where bradass will live out his life..
should have thought that whole espionage thing through.
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The Midway Rebel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
100. America has a history of torturing political prisoners.
I suppose it is is easy for US to do when so many of our citizens think it is a good idea as indicated by the opinions expressed in this thread.
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newspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
101. If these leaks expose corporate corruption or government corruption
it's treason? I'll tell you what I think treason is, individuals inside the government blowing the cover off of a CIA front that monitors WMD for their own personal gain or furthering their agenda. Now that's treason in my book. dismantling a network that's tracking WMD, maybe so you can make your own shite up. Do I believe Valerie Plame and Brewster Jennings was outed just to get back at her husband? Not one bit. All I have to do is look at that grand PNAC plan--total domination of an area, but not bringing democracy. Those involved would deal or install any petty cruel dictator if they cooperated with their grand plans, especially their corporate plans.

So, if this 22 year old young man is receiving cruel and inhumane treatment, maybe Americans better get their head out of their arse--any whistleblower is fair game. And, the more corrupt our government becomes, the more they wheel and deal with their greedy friends, and the more they ignore the rule of law--the more we will all suffer!
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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
102. LOL
77 Recs!




:rofl:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #102
103. Did you read Glenn's article?
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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #103
104. Nah
Mr. Greenwald has NO credibility except with a certain slice of the pie...
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #104
105. Like CBS? They've picked it up. n/t
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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #105
106. Good for them!
Ok...
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crazyjoe Donating Member (921 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
109. wow, a tweet??? it must be true!! LOL
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #109
110. The story is being picked up now, CBS, NY Magazine, Business Insider
Atlantic Wire.

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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #110
116. Bradass86 better get used to solitary. That is how time is served for people like him
he will live his life out in solitary in Florence or Leavenworth.
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crazyjoe Donating Member (921 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #110
135. strange, i can't find it anywhere :-)
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-10 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #135
136. Here:
Report: Bradley Manning, Alleged WikiLeaks Source, in Solitary Confinement
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503543_162-20025724-503543....

The US Army's Treatment Of Alleged WikiLeaker Bradley Manning Is A Disgrace

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/the-us-armys-treatment-o...

WikiLeaks: Is Bradley Manning being tortured?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/theweek/20101216/cm_theweek/210...

WikiLeaks source held in solitary confinement for seven months
http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/wikileaks-source-h...

Supposed WikiLeaks Source in Solitary Confinement: Is It Torture?
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/opinions/view/opinion/Su...

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crazyjoe Donating Member (921 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #136
138. ya this story is really blowin up!! NOT
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
113. I doubt that solitary confinement equals torture
In the sense of torture like waterboarding, pulling ones fingernails out etc.
Methinks Greenwald just wants to stir some shit, actually
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Capitalocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #113
129. Extensive solitary confinement is considered torture.
Waterboarding is one of the most egregious examples, but much of the torture suffered in Gitmo is used in our supermax facilities, extended solitary confinement, sleep deprivation, stress positions (which induce self-inflicted pain, causing feelings of guilt in the prisoner. It's a psychological torture technique). Just google solitary confinement and in five minutes you'll figure out that it's torture over long periods of time. Solitary confinement isn't supposed to be used for more than a couple of days.
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duhneece Donating Member (967 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-18-10 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
139. To write support ltr TO B Manning
http://www.bradleymanning.org /
Letters and postcards to:

Bradley Manning
c/o Courage to Resist
484 Lake Park Ave #41
Oakland CA 94610
USA

Letters will be opened, "contraband" discarded and then mailed weekly to Bradley via someone on his approved correspondence list.

I'm arrogant and naive enough to dream that a letter I write MIGHT make it into his hands and I can only imagine how alone he must feel and I want to let him know it should not be against the law to reveal war crimes. I want him to know he's not alone.
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