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What do you really think would happen if we protested & our military

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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-11 11:22 PM
Original message
What do you really think would happen if we protested & our military
Edited on Mon Feb-21-11 11:27 PM by napi21
was ordered to attack us? I mean peaceful protests like in wisc now. Do you think our military would do it or respond as those two pilots in Libia?
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-11 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. Spell check is your friend.
:rofl:
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Thunderstruck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-11 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. LOL...
:rofl:
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-11 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. LOLOLOL
:woohoo:
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-11 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. Believe it or not I did spell check and clicked on the wrong damn word. Sorry. nt
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-11 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. No, don't apologize. I think it's classic.
It's like the ultimate Freudian slip.
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-11 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. 'sokay. I laughed so hard I cried. thanks!
I needed that.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-11 11:26 PM
Response to Original message
3. The military is NOT going to be ordered to attack...
Edited on Mon Feb-21-11 11:36 PM by SDuderstadt
citizens exercising their constitutional rights.

The paranoia here is simply baffling.
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-11 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. I hear you but I was 21 when the military killed several students at Kent State too.
This idiot Gov. in Wisc. already has allerted the National Guard. Why are you calling it paranoia?
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Bigmack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-11 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. I don't see real military doing it...
but I worry about some Guard units that are undertrained doing a Kent State.

Nothing against the Guard, but ....
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csziggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-11 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. The Guard today is not under trained - but they are trained for the wrong thing
If they are sent to "control" crowds of American citizens peacefully protesting.

Far too many of our National Guard units have spent time in Afghanistan and Iraq where a civilian could just as easily kill them as be friendly. I worry if combat experienced Guard units are sent into a crowd situation without retraining for crowd control in this country, they could respond to the wrong trigger as they might have overseas.
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Boswell Donating Member (257 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-11 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #13
26. we get the same thing from too many vets
who come home to become cops...
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-11 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #6
22. These days, the Guard IS the real military.
And for ten years they've been acculturated to combat, to shooting as ordered when ordered. Not to mention, the theocrats' infiltration of the military which has resulted in a huge percentage thinking they are fighting a holy war. Anyone who opposes them is an enemy of God.

I certainly would not trust them not to.
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Hugabear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-11 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Kent State
There have been a few other instances where US soldiers have been given orders to attack US civilians.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-11 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. Why don't you list them? n/t
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-11 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. And tell us how many years have elapsed since the last one. n/t
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warren pease Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-11 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #14
23. Look up the regular Army's involvement in breaking the Pullman Strike...
Also, there's the Wounded Knee massacre, assuming native Americans count as actual citizens. "... at least 150 men, women, and children of the Lakota Sioux (were) killed and 51 wounded (4 men, 47 women and children, some of whom died later); some estimates placed the number of dead at 300.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wounded_Knee_Massacre )

Then there's the 21 (including one Guardsman) killed during the Ludlow Mine strike, where the National Guard attacked "... a tent colony of 1,200 striking coal miners and their families at Ludlow, Colorado on April 20, 1914. The deaths occurred after a day-long fight between strikers and the Guard. Two women and eleven children were asphyxiated and burned to death. Three union leaders and two strikers were killed by gunfire, along with one child, one passer-by, and one National Guardsman." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludlow_Massacre )

But the wild card here is extra-military mercenary contractors, whose employees kill for money without regard for trifles like citizenship. Would the feds enlist the services of Blackwater et al to halt a general strike? Hopefully not, but that company's employees' actions in NOLA post-Katrina provide a scary historical precedent.

That enough for now?


sg
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-11 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. Do you have any from CURRENT history...
dude?

It's pretty telling that you have to reach so far in the past.
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warren pease Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-11 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #24
28. History gives us clues to behavior by similar entities in similar circumstances...
... regardless of the dates. See the fall of the Roman empire for clues to the eventual fall of the US empire (stretched supply lines; massive internal corruption; plunder by elites; bread and circuses to distract the proles; gradual erosion of any moral authority to govern; insurrections in the conquered territories; loss of economic credibility; and so on).

I sincerely hope that 100 years is sufficient time for the US authorities to learn that fomenting violence against its citizens is counterproductive, but I suppose we'll find out eventually.

Also, if I remember correctly, the Blackwater/NOLA occupation took place just six years ago. See Jeremy Scahill's article in The Nation for details.


And you can cut the "dude" shit any time.


sg
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-11 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. One of my college professors went to Kent State when she was a student back in those days.
We were having a discussion in our class about the Student Association being almost entirely dominated by sympathizers of the school administrators or were mostly members of the fraternities and sororities. It wasn't a true reflection of the diverse student body in general. We were talking about real student unions in class, like those found in France and Germany. She replied to all of us that her generation tried to challenge the imbalance of power, and the authorities responded by bringing in the national guard. The discussion tapered off fairly quickly after she injected her opinion into our debate. We were all angry that day, and we were venting about the Student Association.
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immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-11 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #3
16. Hoover did it.
MacArthur, Patton and Eisenhower were in the command. They gassed, burned and fired on WWI vets and their families, demonstrating in Washington.

These guys are pros not conscripts. They are there for the "mission."

--imm
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Jmaxfie1 Donating Member (707 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-11 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #3
17. I agree
I don't think any politician would give that order and I don't think any soldier would follow it out.
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greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-11 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #3
20. It would start with police.
A Google of "anti war protest rubber bullets" may serve as a reminder. I think many people see police and military in much the same light.
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-11 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
9. Libya, fwiw.
:)
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Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-11 11:34 PM
Response to Original message
12. I'm afraid we'd find out if the military really is right wing.

Truthfully, not sure which way they'd go.

I do think chances of that happening are relatively small. Agree with poster above on that. But if Gubnor decides to call on the military to attack us, I think it would be time for the feds to mobilize.
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-11 11:45 PM
Response to Original message
18. Getting the military to attack its own civilian population is rather easy.
When the protests broke out in 1989 in China, the ruling party discovered that simply deploying local units to the area was insufficient. Many soldiers had friends or relatives inside the city of Beijing when the protests were happening, so they were reluctant to shoot at anybody.

The leadership responded by bringing in military units stationed far away from Beijing. These soldiers were less likely to know or have friends and relatives inside Beijing. The calculation turned out to be correct for the leadership, and thousands of protesters were gunned down or disappeared. Finally, the protests were crushed.
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Desertrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-11 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. Hence the mercenaries being used byQaddafi in Libya.
I agree...just get units from far away. With the climate of hate in this country, I really don't think it would be terribly shocking if they turned on civilians/protesters.
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-11 12:18 AM
Response to Original message
25. Are there enough of them?
I seem to recall there are a lot of them overseas in the two wars we can't seem to end.
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-11 12:41 AM
Response to Original message
27. They'd Shoot Us
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Chris_Texas Donating Member (707 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-11 01:38 AM
Response to Original message
29. yes, they would.
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