If we tried to do what they just did in Egypt? They would shoot us dead in the streets.

[givemebackmycountry]

If about three quarter of a million people showed up in New York City one day, and they all settled down at Wall Street and refused to move?
Not give an inch?
And the next day, another half a million people?
What would you think would happen?
Negotiation?
A little give and take?
All I see lately is a lot of take, and very little give.

They seem to be intent on pushing and pushing and pushing us until we hit a breaking point.

Unions?
Pensions?
Unemployment?
Social Security?
WARS?
Health care?
The right to choose and protection for womens reproductive rights?

TAKE, TAKE, TAKE, TAKE, TAKE, TAKE, TAKE.

They will break us.
And we will be done.
There's your greatest country in the world for you right there.
If we tried to do what they just did in Egypt?
Tell me I'm wrong.

[Horse with no Name]

1. You aren't wrong. n/t

[dd2003]

2. disagree

They all would be arrested and blacklisted but not shot

[kentuck]

32. Right.

They only need to shoot one or two as an example. The crowd would disperse rather quickly.

[right2bfree]

3. The cops would be breaking heads like they did back in the 30's strikes. nt

[Cronus Protagonist]

4. They would just fly over with helicopters

and claim there was only a few thousand people there while Fox would have on an endless string of shills demonizing the protesters as being unamerican muslins.

[grahamhgreen]

5. They would insert violent under over agent

Provocatuers and the say they were forced to shoot the violent terrorist rioters, or similar.

That is one reasons why peaceful demonstrations will be critical.

[Shining Jack]

21. Agents Provocateurs is standard procedure at

every peaceful demonstrations.

[Starry Messenger]

6. They can't shoot all of us.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. If only one city, you are correct

a national strike, on the other hand... what do you think Egypt was? It was a national strike.

[gateley]

8. Who would shoot us? The authorities, or the Right Wingers? nt

[SDuderstadt]

9. You are dead wrong...

Jesus, this is getting unbelievable. Everyday when I leave the house, I keep looking for this police state many here at DU seem to believe we live in.

We have serious problems and have much room for improvement, but the hyperbole here at DU is often simply outrageous.

[givemebackmycountry]

11. And I agree with you. I was not trying to be over the top.

I've been giving this a lot of thought.
We've never seen anything in this country like what just took place in Egypt.
Not in recent history.

I'm not a big fan of hyperbole, and I try to be reasonable and measured.
If you disagree, that's great.
Frankly, I need that right now.
Maybe I need to be talked down off the ledge.

[LooseWilly]

31. I take it then that you've never had a cop in riot gear point a shotgun at you at point blank range?

(Sure, it was loaded with rubber "non-lethal" pellets... but at point blank range it's likely still lethal...)

Of course, we (I and a crowd far smaller than the theoretical crowd posited by the OP) were facing off with the cops over the building of some volleyball courts... so it was :sarcasm: obviously a lot higher pressure a situation than calling for the stepping down of a president/dictator...

But, there was still a line of cops in riot gear with shotguns loaded with riot-control rubber pellets, with tear gas and tonfas, and with sidearms.

Are you sure "hyperbole" means what you think it means?

If you ever see a crowd of protestors that seem to really give a shit about whatever they're protesting... then you better believe "chaos" will ensue, and police abuses will be posted on youtube... and apologists for the comfortable status quo (:hi:) will be on the message boards to deride the "troublemakers"...

Granted, that's a pretty big if... so no need to worry about getting your knickers in a twist riding on that particular metaphorical hyperbola...

[reggie the dog]

37. it is a police state

look at most states, you get busted for growing or having hemp, a healing herb that has anti cancer properties, in many states including my native illinois it is illegal to drive with "dirty" urine which means it is illegal to drive for A MONTH after you smoke a joint and cops can ask for a piss test from anyone they stop just based on a whim. this has noting to do with impaired driving and all to do with being able to bully people who dont drive around with their stash. plus when you have governors threatening to send out the national guard against striking civil servants.....cops who kettle and beat you for peacefully demonstrating against the war.... if you are black, latino or look like a hippie and are too far inland from the pacific coast the police state has existed for quite a while

[SidDithers]

65. The hyperbole at DU is the best of all time!...nt

Sid

[Warpy]

10. No, they'd use tear gas, fire hoses

and maybe that spiffy new microwave weapon that makes your skin boil.

Actually, if they did shoot into the crowd, that would serve to wake up and piss off a whole lot of people. So they'd use the non lethal stuff.

Massing in the street isn't going to do it here. Striking will but people aren't desperate enough to consider it.

Not yet.

[Mojeoux]

14. They have wicked sophisticated SOUND weapons to control riots

"Violent Riots."

[Warpy]

49. Right, and punks getting paid to make sure they're violent

by smashing some plate glass here and there.

[Bryn]

12. K&R

Still at O

I wonder if people still won't believe? Yes, they will shoot at us!

[Hannah Bell]

13. i don't think so. for reasons similar to the reasons they didn't do so in egypt.

too hard to keep it a secret, liable to touch off more instability.

at least that's one pov.

[Bryn]

17. I hope you are right

I am concerned because things are getting worse and worse here in America. Huge tax cuts for the rich yet they pound on the people's stuff like SS, Medicare, Education, Healthcare, now we have high unemployment, foreclosures, etc. Our government wants to give more to the Corporate, they are being ruled by the Elites. I am not sure anymore. I just don't trust greedy people.

[cherokeeprogressive]

15. Who would give the shoot order? The President? n/t

[Waiting For Everyman]

16. Too many cameras on Wall Street. n/t

[leftstreet]

18. How many people were shot during the Immigration Marches in 2006?

Millions MILLIONS of people took to the streets to protest HR4437

:shrug:

[Shining Jack]

22. They just ignore them.

And it's rarely covered by the Corporate Media. Except for Teabaggers, of course.

[Bryn]

24. Wow! I hadn't known this

2006? How could I have missed this! Thanks for sharing ...

[leftstreet]

25. 100+ cities with largest marches in US history

Amazing

[Blue_In_AK]

27. If those people had stayed there for weeks

and if similar demonstrations were going on in cities large and small all over the country, what would the government do? Our demonstrations usually only last a weekend at the most. What if people just took to the streets and STAYED THERE? What would they do?

I'm not saying it's going to happen -- probably not -- but it's interesting to think about. I'm not much of an organizer, but I might join such a demonstration.

[leftstreet]

28. Law enforcement would do what they did that day - absolutely nothing

Anyone involved with the large marches will tell you it was amazing watching cops standing down, smiling, mildly bewildered...it was bizarre.

Yeah, imagine if people stayed for weeks!

[defendandprotect]

58. We are beginning to unite in small actions ... and we need to expand them ...

we're pushing internet buttons all the time -- and telephone calling to

elected officials. We have to move that to more "out in the street" action

but we can also use "lights out" where all together we keep lights off at night

for an hour or two to signal unity and displeasure with an issue.

We also have cars which can deliver strong messages. Pull cars off the streets

at a given time once a week or so for 10/15 minutes. Days when we don't buy gas.

Days when we send other signals with buying power -- preferably by NOT using it!

Many other ways to run protests to begin with -- especially moving to more discussion

of all of this on the internet --

Face book, twitter, etal --

[Javaman]

42. At the end of the day, did those same protesters leave?

or did the camp out right were they were?

I think we know the answer to that.

Let's see how our government would react if these same protesters conducted the same type of protest that the Egyptians had.

Do you honestly believe that the police, local and state governments would have been just fine with those same protesters shutting down traffic and business, not including disrupting government business for days on end?

Read up on the Bonus Marchers of 1932 for your answer.

[JackRiddler]

62. Yes, but they went HOME.

Every protest goes home, and then the media get to weigh it. The 2006 marches barely exist. Four teabaggers with a misspelled sign are a revolution.

Occupation protests like in Egypt are a different story altogether.

[andym]

19. It's more likely the teapartiers would have such a rally

spurred on by brainwashing from Fox news. The rally would be all about "freedom."

And probably nothing would happen to them. The authorities would be afraid of laying a hand on them.

[Shining Jack]

23. +1

[defendandprotect]

61. T-BAGGERS are Koch Bros' hired "thugs" similar to Mubarak's "thugs" ...

tjey're bought and paid for and run out of a PR firm --

Granted, they attract other nutty and violence prone people --

but it's astroturf -- faked.

Just as the Christian Coalition is bought and paid for by the elites/right wing --

GOP gave start up funding for the Christian Coalition -- Richard Scaife financed

Dobson's group -- other wealthy right wingers financed Bauer's group. On and on --

GOPs/Pro-life murderers

GOPs/NRA -- which targed liberals and progressives in both parties to create a violent America!

[LAGC]

20. I could see right-wingers taking pot shots from roof-tops.

Lobbing molotov cocktails like the pro-government civilians did in Egypt.

But the police/military know better than to shoot after the backlash from Kent State. They will stick to non-lethal means if they can help it.

Besides, with so many civilians armed in this country, the government forces know they don't want to open that can of worms.

(Cops on patrol would be getting shot and their vehicles bombed in retaliation if they really cracked down. Wouldn't be long before another Weather Underground rose up to fill the void.)

[defendandprotect]

56. Well, then, let's just let fascists have the country?

[LAGC]

66. Not without a fight!

I'll be out there exhausting every non-violent form of protest there is before I let that happen.

And if it turns violent, well... if its a civil war the right wants, its a civil war they will get!

[defendandprotect]

67. Think if we stuck with what you're saying -- "non-violent" -- we'd find out the rw "thugs"

would turn out to be pretty much like Mubarak's --

few and fictional!!


:)

[Ozymanithrax]

26. Over 300 people died in those streets...

You can't let a threat of violence stop your quest for freedom, or you will never be free.

[defendandprotect]

46. Exactly -- FEAR is the psychological barrier that at some point has to be broken -- !!

First, I'd suggest we get rid of the voting computers - !!

[Ozymanithrax]

50. Someone has found a way to cheat with every method ever used to count votes.

In 2000, it was hanging Chads and poorly designed butterfly ballots. Ballot box stuffing is as old as the ballot box. If we are gong to use computers, the software and hardware should be owned 100% by the people of the United States. There should be no proprietary software or hardware. There should be standards set up and managed by the department of Justice. Really, if we can run an ATM system national wide with a microscopic error rate, we can run a voting system with computers. To date, it has been run poorly. Ultimately, I trust humans to count paper ballots more than machines to count digits. We can always get another human to tally the ballots. If we are going ot use computers, there must be checks and ballances to make it fair.

[defendandprotect]

54. Keep in mind, the voting computers began to come in during late 1960's ...!!!

I'd question every election back to Nixon/Humphrey!!

PLUS, we also had the LARGE computers used by MSM come in during mid-1960's --

which gave MSM new powers to PREDICT and CALL elections -- something they couldn't

previously do. They could also PREDICT and CALL Electoral College Votes and winners

by state! What happened in 2000 with Jon Ellis/Fox was simply a REVERSAL of those

new powers!!

See: Votescam - The Stealing of America
based on two journalists investigating odd results from computer voting in Florida in
late 1960's!!

http://www.constitution.org/vote/votescam__.htm

[Ozymanithrax]

60. I never used one until 2002.

It was only after 2000 that they entered elections in a big way.

Computers to predict electiosn by percentage of votes are just fast statisticians, and were never entirly accurate.

[defendandprotect]

63. They began coming in during late 1960's... when you're stealing elections ...

you don't need to steal the whole thing -- stealing in certain areas was a

beginning --

I'm sure you'll recall that NOT all of our elections seemed nuts immediately.

It began gradually --

And if you look at the investigation begun in the late 1960's in Florida you'll

seem how much difference the computer s made there!

Too many people think this whole vote stealing thing began in 2000!! It didn't!

It began LONG before that !!

[PoliticAverse]

29. Some history: Bonus March...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army

[saras]

30. As long as you do it on your time...

You will be ignored.

On the other hand, if the majority of Americans takes a week off from corporate jobs to protest, that's a different matter.

[Le Taz Hot]

33. I disagree.

Of all the thousands of protests in the 60's and 70's, there was only one incident, of which I'm aware, in which there was deadly force perpetrated by the U.S. Military (National Guard) upon the protesters. It also stunned the nation and even the staunchest pro-'Nam winger condemned the action. I think Americans inherently know that the second the government's guns are turned on you, it's on.

Re: protests. You know what we don't have? Young people getting involved. Working to get Obama elected is one thing but it seems like once they felt like they accomplished that, they were again distracted by the new I-shiny-thing. I think the Boomers are here. We're ready to go. We're fired up. But it's the youngins' turn now. We can't do it without them and they can't do it without us. The mass theft of American wealth by the corporate elite brings commonality. We're all looking for jobs. We're all looking for a descent wage. We're all looking to be able obtain health care. We're all looking just to live our lives without worrying about how we're going to pay for next months' medication. This country is STILL a wealthy nation, it's just that the wealth has been moving to the top since 1980. We USED to know how to come together for a common cause. Egypt reminded us how to do it. I, one person, am ready to hit the streets.


In case you didn't catch this post from Kpete, the graphic illustrates my point.:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x413587

[kentuck]

34. You only have to shoot one...

to get your message across.

[Le Taz Hot]

35. And you only have to learn from Rosa Parks' actions

to get another message across.

[ladjf]

36. The "Great Heist" is taking place right before our eyes. nt

[deaniac21]

38. I think the police would hand out bad donuts to the people and

everyone would go home.

[bullwinkle428]

39. They wouldn't shoot us dead - they'd just stand their ground until

people literally started dropping over dead, thus allowing them to wash their "bloodless" hands of the entire thing.

[SDuderstadt]

40. WTF?

Why would people just start "dropping over dead"?

[Catherina]

41. Hundreds were killed and many thousands injured in Egypt, as well as detained and tortured.

Hundreds were killed and many thousands injured in Egypt, as well as detained and tortured.

No guts, no glory. A sad nation of sheep being meekly led to slaughter.

[Joanne98]

43. Yeah they would cause we live in a police state!

[SDuderstadt]

45. Oh, please...

we do not live in a police state. Please quit being absurd.

[defendandprotect]

55. Evidently the trigger for the original revolution was interference with right to free assembly!

[defendandprotect]

44. If we had same percentages as Egypt had in street -- and kept increasing numbers ... ?

You need everyone to start walking at the same time --

PLUS you're not ready for revolution if all you can see is FEAR --

that was the psychological hold on the people of Egypt --

and they broke it!!

At some point, so will we!!

[Lisa D]

47. All this hyperbole is giving me a headache.

:crazy:

[Paper Roses]

48. Taser here, Taser there.Non-lethal hear but I bet it hurts like heck.

I bet there are kinds of things that would break up a crown of protesters. Tear gas for old granny, Taser the young folks, whatever they could do without drawing blood.

I hope this never happens but I fear for all of us that someday, as injustices get worse, someone will do something that will start a movement that will harm some of our best people. I don't think Uncle Sam cares about our good intentions or what we want and need as a country.

[Bonobo]

51. I think you are absolutely correct.

And that fear has been a chilling, paralyzing force working deep in all of our collective subconscious.

[slackmaster]

52. They'd send out vans with giant bullhorns blaring teasers for the next "Oprah" show

About half of the protesters would not be able to resist the urge to get up, go home, and turn on the TV.

[TBF]

53. Way to scare people into doing nothing - bravo. Do you really think with all the

cell phones and computers on wall street that photos of that would not get out? Of course we could make an impact. There are 300 million of us!

[EnviroBat]

57. A couple of things to consider.

1. Consider that the protest that you are taking part in could turn violent. Do you not have a right to protect yourself? A full-faced motorcycle helmet will prevent a lot of damage at the receiving end of a riot-cops baton. Should we not have the same protections that the thugs are equipped with?
2. Protect your identity: Cover you face, wear sun-glasses, keep your hair up under a hat, (or a motorcycle helmet). Guard your identity at all costs. They will attempt to use it against you long after the protest has ended.

[GSLevel9]

59. Just curious...

If 5 million Teabaggers and militia members surrounded the White House would you still be so excited about the power of the mob?

[JackRiddler]

64. Ha!

If that happened, I'd wake up and discover it was your nightmare, with no relation to reality.

You can make up whatever fictional scenario you like. Yours is even less likely than the Sino-Soviet invasion we were expected to fear in the 1950s.

[Better Believe It]

68. And do you think the rest of the nation would just watch half a million people being shot dead?

Let's get back to reality.

[donheld]

69. So what do we do?