How Can We Crack the South

[liberalmike27]

I live in Alabama, that seems to regularly vote 65-35 for Republicans. We've got Republican Senators, Republican House members, in fact not a single republican lost, not a single democrat won in the 2010 elections.

I just wonder when the Democratic Party is going to get back to its working poor roots, and try to win back the South. I personally think the only way it's going to happen is for the party to once again embrace work. I refuse to believe we're so prejudiced, or religious, as to vote against ourselves again, and again, for Republicans. But when there is very little choice, when we've got two parties pulling for the very rich, and democrats for the near-rich, then it doesn't give us a radical choice, and makes it easier for most residents of my state stick with their biases.

The South is the economically poorest region in the country. We here in Alabama are about 49th in education, which I always only half-jokingly attribute to the fact that we vote for the party of millionaires. Perhaps having had slavery in our history, we accept the wage-slavery imposed on us by the rich more easily than do those in the North. Add to that, we've got right-to-work states, for the most part. We have very few unions. So I think there is that wage-slave mentality to deal with.

Hell, truth is, Republicans when you look at the total span of religion, and religious thought clearly aren't any better than Democrats. Yea, they pretend to have abortion, but Democrats are much better for the poor, their educations, slightly better on health care. Clearly Democrats offer a party that clears the way for a bit more upward mobility, though they don't express it well.

I just wonder if some of you have any better ideas. I like Dean's 50 state strategy. It contained the most basic tenet, if you never even try to win the South, you'll never win it. Can we just start making an effort, become a little more populist and make a go at it?

[OHdem10]

1. Both parties have essentially abandoned the Middle Class and

Poor.

Now that DLC is Defunct, can the progressives form
a movement that re-invigorates Democrats bringing
them back to their roots.

[TBF]

41. I'm convinced the way to do this is through labor, a group that democrats

want nothing to do with anymore (thank you DLC).

But that is the key ... strong unionizing, strikes, it is the only thing that gets the attention of the owners(ruling class).

[olegramps]

91. Unions are the only hope for the working class.

When 36% of the work force was unionized the working class enjoyed their highest relative standard of living. The fact of the matter is that the younger workers coming into the work force refused to join the unions since they could get the same benefits without paying union dues. They absolutely screwed their own selves. Today's Democrats only pay attention to organized labor when they need a hand out. The working class has no representation in congress and until the working class wakes up and realizes that their only hope is to organize then they can only expect to get the crumbs that wealthy will throw to them.

[liberalmike27]

42. I Don't Get That

They struggle for a few votes in the center, Obama regularly takes it up the wazoo, pleads with corporatist rather than just raising the taxes and creating jobs. What, maybe he'll get a million FOX watchers over, but I think if he'd come back to labor, if Democrats would show an honest effort toward bringing manufacturing back, thus jobs, and tax collections to our country, they would once again win not just a few, but tens of millions of voters on the left.

And even if we could only get them to up $5 or $10 per election, if we get enough of them to make this contribution then that'd amount to a lot of money.

Corporations or no, Democrats have to be Democrats. What difference is it if Blanche Lincoln had lost by being an actual democrat, or trying to run into the republican game from moving so far to the right? She lost in any case--might as well have done it pleading the democrats' case, making the good argument,taking the fight to them.

I just don't see them doing enough of that these days. And I think we're just going to keep losing.

[Capitalocracy]

48. Lip service for the middle class, but ultimately working toward its destruction

As for the poor... Poor? What poor? I don't see any poor. What is this "poor" word you are articulating? I fail to understand.

[RKP5637]

2. I don't have the answer, but I certainly Recommend your excellent post and questions! n/t

[n2doc]

3. I think you and Dean are right

You have to start locally, low level, and build the party. Too often all that seems to happen is that people stick with their gerrymandered safe districts and never try to build up a pool of candidates. Then when there are opportunities, it always seems like there aren't good candidates waiting.

People need to be more honest about what is happening. None of the states being run by GOP'ers is doing well. We need to be hammering them on this.

[nxylas]

4. But abortion trumps all

The Republican Party and its army of tame preachers have been pushing the line that abortion is the only moral issue that matters. Cynic that I am, I think the only way that Democrats can win the South is to do what the Republicans do - make anti-choice noises whilst doing precisely nothing that would seriously endanger Roe vs. Wade. You think they're gonna kill the goose that lays the golden eggs?

[Dawgs]

6. But aren't we all against abortion?

I think the biggest problem the Democrats have created for themselves is letting the Republicans portray being pro-choice as also being pro-abortion.

[nxylas]

12. Yes, but Republicans and Democrats differ in their approach

Democrats, even so-called "anti-choice Democrats", tend to be focussed on helping women find alternatives to abortion. Whereas with Republicans, it's all about punishing women for sinning. I don't think Repubs really care if the poor, particularly minorities, abort themselves out of existence. But attending the occasional stoning of a woman caught in adultery helps them look like reg'lar God-fearing folks.

[liberalmike27]

44. I think playing off that abortion card

with the asking of a question would be good. Say "No one is making you get an abortion. But is keeping that poor little girl down the street from having the choice less, or more important than you losing your job, going homeless, being able to afford medical care, or prescriptions you may need, or a good education, or a job with a decent salary and benefits?"

And the gun issue, well I'd love it if we had some decent laws, but it isn't going to happen, and we can't afford to lose a single vote over continuing to argue for more gun laws. If democrats can get into office with enough strength, fix the economy, and jobs, then we can take on these issues in time. But not now.

I think we just have to point out in campaigns that attacks on Muslims,Immigrants, Blacks,and Homosexuals are just trying to manipulate you. Just tell them what is going on, because honestly, I don't think people see manipulation like they should. It amazes me they don't, but they, a lot of people just don't understand that they are being led around by their noses by their hatreds, done in economically by their worst hatreds.

[socialist_n_TN]

50. I would turn it around on them bro...........

If somebody asked about abortion, I think you should say something like, "Well I'm glad you're doing so well that you've got time to worry about all that stuff. But I'm talking to the people who don't HAVE the money or time to worry about ANYTHING, but where the rent or mortgage money is coming from this month. Or how they're going to keep the heat on (or AC if it's Summer). Or how they're going to pay for their kids schooling or even put food on the table. When we have all that taken care of THEN we can talk about all those things that the rich folks divide us with." Turn it around on them on a personal one to one basis. And of course MOST of those poor fuckers are going to say they don't have a lot of money. Because they don't. THEN you just ask them why they're worried about that NOW.

The economic card IS the way to go though. I'd channel me some Huey Long on that. It probably wouldn't even hurt to use some of his same speeches, just update them.

[liberalmike27]

57. Exactly

How much is controlling another's choices worth to you, your economic life?

[socialist_n_TN]

58. OOOOOH! Very succinct..........

And maybe not just your economic life. Maybe your actual life. When it comes to help with those AC bills in the South in the Summer, people DO die.

[nxylas]

81. Of course for that to work...

...you need Democrats who actually care about the poor and who aren't just corporate shills. The South is full of Blue Dogs and DLCers.

[socialist_n_TN]

97. Agreed. As I said in another post...........

ANYTHING that's done in this vein would have to be done and spoken with PASSION. But I'm a firm believer that passion AND truth are a POTENT combination, even when you're talking to RWers. Even more so with followers.

[NaturalHigh]

5. You probably won't like the answer.

Winning in the South will require a shift right on social issues. The middle class in the South (at least in my experience) is socially conservative.

[MicaelS]

11. This is the real answer....

And is anathema to many Democrats.

[jeff47]

21. Hardly

The South didn't move to the right on social issues, yet the Democrats won there regularly.

Democrats lost the South when there stopped being an economic reason to vote for them. If both parties are going to use nearly the same economic policy, there isn't an economic reason to vote for one or the other. All that's left to differentiate the parties is social issues.

Bring the Democratic party back to being "the party of the people" economically and the South will be competitive.

[dmallind]

23. Democrats lost the south over civil rights

Hopefully nobody wants to bactrack there to win.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jeff47]

40. That's where they lost on social issues

But they lost on economic issues in the 90s. They can make it competitive on economic issues, and that would work better for us all.

[sufrommich]

29. The south moved right during the civil rights era,it had

nothing to do with economics.

[jeff47]

39. No, the south stayed in the same place during the civil rights era

The parties moved on social issues.

[jtown1123]

36. ding ding ding!

[misanthrope]

46. Most Souther Democrats were in the pockets of the Big Mules...

...They had been screwing "the little guy" for a long time before the shift in political identification. While the South was a big beneficiary of the New Deal, they were solidly Democratic before then and for a couple of decades after FDR.

It was the Civil Rights Act of 1964 that did the South in for the Democratic Party. It's no more complicated than looking at the statements of Kevin Phillips and Lee Atwater. In my Alabama county, all the elected Democrats are African-American, all the elected Republicans are white. If the original poster would look at correlation of race and party in their area of the Heart of Dixie, they would likely find the same. If they paid attention during elections, they would also find a lot of the same code words and phrases employed by the GOP to signify the heart of matters.

[jeff47]

74. Actually, you're agreeing with me

Social issues, one being the civil rights act, have been exploited for the GOP in the South. But it took a long time for the South to turn deep red because there was still an economic benefit for voting for Democrats.

People value their pocketbook more than social issues when voting. Unfortunately, the Democrats forgot that a long time ago. The result is the economic policies of the two major parties only differ in nuance.

A more populist economic policy wouldn't guarantee the South to the Democratic party, but it would make the South competitive.

[socialist_n_TN]

52. DING! DING! DING! We have a winnah!

POUND the economics and the rest of the stuff will be deferred til better times.

[grahamhgreen]

61. Exactly. I live in Georgia.

[liberalmike27]

45. No

Like I said above, we just have to make a short, comparative argument. "Are you willing to risk your job, so some girl down the street can't have the freedom to choose."

"Are you willing to be homeless."

"Are you willing to be ever more a wage-slave, just so you can force the ten commandments into a government state-house."

I just would love it if Democrats would stop cowering, and make the argument, be prepared for the argument.

[socialist_n_TN]

51. I'd just continously and politely (I AM a southerner........

after all :)) tell them to fuck off. That THAT issue is not important at this time. GOOD JOBS is what the working person needs right now, not some argument over abortion.

[liberalmike27]

69. I've Said for a While

That if you fix our economic system, make for full-employment, a good income and wealth distribution, yes through whatever means possible, and the other problems I believe will fall away.

It's always easy when you keep the majority on poverty's edge, to play against the worst qualities, prejudices, and biases of people. Hate the Muslims, the Immigrants, the homosex'shuuuls, the blacks, don't pay attention to this new tax we've put on you, so we can give the rich that big tax cut. Don't worry about those two wars, just hate these Muslims, they're coming to get you.

FOX has hardened off some tough nuts, and they are not easily cracked. It's such a team mentality thing, they no longer even look at what Republicans are doing here, they just see themselves as on the team, they listen to this low-information BS on FOX,and they support their team. Got to watch what they do, not listen to what they say.

I'm really thinking Democrats, in general, should really push hard for more womens' votes, as with the "keep rape safe and legal for men," bill and their general antipathy for issues involving women, I think a lot of women in the middle might be converted.

[socialist_n_TN]

70. Yeah that's the thing. With everything more comfortable............

economically, the rest of the stuff takes a little more attention yes, but the EDGE is gone. Nobody (well not AS many) get so crazy over the wedge issues.

One thing I've noticed posting on here is that there seems to be several different groups that consolidate around different issues, whether it be gay rights, women's rights or something else. But MY focus has always been these economic issues. Food on the table, a roof over your head, and clothes on your back IS the most important issue IMO. Without those basics they rest of it isn't as important.

[Cosmocat]

95. Except that won't happen ...

the 90s saw the best economic times of our lives, and the republicans OWNED the dialogue with "moral" issues - god, guns and gays ...

Sorry, the right screaches LOUDLY, the MSM uses a megaphone to blair the nonsense they are spewing.

If the right is good at anything, it is using the most base core of a lot our people to tap into and use for political gain.

Good times or bad, they will do it, and the MSM will do its bidding.

AND, it only has gotten worse, and will NOT get better.

Turned on Morning Joe for first time in months yesterday - lasted less than a minute.

SOMEHOW, they were all aghast because the evil liberals who were so mean to George Bush were pointing out that Bill O'Reilly acted like a borish clown interviwing the president. He was a great american for doing it, and now was the victim.

I have given into the knowledge that I will continue to be amazed the intellectual dishonesty that MSM generates from these people AND the stunning willingness of the masses to take it all in with zero critical thought.

[Marr]

65. Not necessarily. A firm commitment to ignore social wedge issues completely would suffice.

I am of the opinion that a party devoted solely to economic reforms and, in particular, absolutely sticking it to the rich, would do well.

[socialist_n_TN]

71. I agree.

:fistbump:

[NaturalHigh]

84. That didn't work out in Alabama.

Several years ago, a Republican governor tried to push through a tax increase on the lumber companies that would have benefited the poor and middle class. The people there had such a lack of trust in the government that they actually voted it down.

I firmly believe that the rich should be taxed at a much higher rate, but as long as the Republicans can continue to paint the Democrats as the party of abortion, flag burning, and gay marriage, I don't see the Democrats getting much traction.

I've thought for a long time that a platform that would sell themselves as fiscally liberal and socially conservative would sweep the South. I still believe that. Unfortunately, Democrats seem to be almost as fiscally conservative as the Republicans and focus on liberal social issues. Southern Democrats have to be asking "what's in it for me?"

[w8liftinglady]

101. Mine,too... until it involves their family

pro-choice,gay rights,union membership,globalization,health care,wars... are taboo until their children,their husbands,their parents are involved.

Funny how that works here in Red hell.
God knows I've tried changing and enlightening for going on seven years....to little avail.

[no_hypocrisy]

7. More jobs, more state aid from Congress.

Quid pro quo

[LostInAnomie]

8. Solidly win the rest of the country.

Making the Republican reps from the South irrelevant is the only way.

[HopeHoops]

9. I think there's PLENTY of crack in the south. How else do you explain them voting GOP?

[liberalmike27]

75. Like I said

49th in education,far too much belief not only in religion, but the fallacy that republicans are more religious. Just because you are against abortion, does not in any way make you more religious in general. There have to be other factors.

Yes, there are a certain number of pretty racist people here.

Like I said, it is possible we're conditioned more to be wage-slaves, thus find the economic deprivation more usual--with slavery lasting longer here.

[aikoaiko]

10. Georgia - due to the hard work of folks on the ground it is ready to vote Blue in 2012

McCain won by 5%.

If we convince 2.5% to not vote Republican and vote Democratic instead, we win it.

Of course, if the vote were today, I'm not so sure the vote would be so close.

[Yo_Mama]

13. Advocate for the public interest

I think the spirit of the south is still mostly Democratic.

I think, as so many on this board have commented, that many of the voters distrust DC and do not think that the decisions the federal government is making are slanted toward the interests of the average person. Instead we seem to be becoming a state dominated by powerful interests, Wall Street and big corporations that can afford to pay off Congress.

That leads to a desire for a smaller government; if you think you're destined to be screwed, you don't want it to be by a ten-ton gorilla. Sorry to be crude, but I know very well that most Georgians would be voting Dem if their perceptions were different.

The Democratic party talks the right talk, but the average person does not see it walking the way it talks. I think this is leading to desperation among the bottom 60% of voters. They threw out Republicans because they thought they weren't paying attention to the people's interest. Then they felt like the Democrats did the same thing, so another electoral massacre.

Well, things aren't getting any better.... The only reason the Tea Party exists is that many people now distrust both parties.

The Democratic party could become a dominant force for decades if it could get its head back on Main Street where it belongs.

According to the last JOLTS report (from BLS), there are almost 5 jobless for every job opening. Take a look at the graphs in this post if you dare:
http://www.economicpopulist.org/content/jobs-jolts-december-2010

So what do we do? We cut off unemployment for a huge number of people who have exhausted their 23 months of benefits, many of whom have not the shadow of a chance of getting ANY full-time work, even at minimum wage. People are terribly concerned about Social Security, but Congress has made no step toward strengthening it.

There have been some Democratic successes, such as the big expansion of food stamps and so forth, but most people look at the individual mandate in health care and think "that won't work for me". It will work for the insurance companies, but it won't help many people who desperately need help.

[Uncle Joe]

20. I most agree with your post. The Democrats that don't strongly advocate for the public interest are

implicitly and explicitly telling the people that the Republican mantra of "government being the problem" is the correct message.

So how can the "Ignorant Southerners be voting against their own best interests" when both major political parties tell them they're not?

There is simply no equivalent argument from either Party against the abuse, corruption, dysfunction and overwhelming power obtained by the mega-corporations and how government; is essential as the people's true, elected, representative agents to keep mega-corporate power in check.

In short there is no argument against corporate supremacy and in that vacuum of information, the people are programmed by either the corporate media or the bought and paid for politicians to instead focus their concern/fear on government supremacy.

So long as that political dynamic stays in place, the people of the nation will always be easy to divide and conquer; which is what the Republican Party lives and breathes on.

[Yo_Mama]

28. I like your way of phrasing it

"implicitly and explicitly telling the people that the Republican mantra of "government being the problem" is the correct message"

We cannot survive as a dog-eat-dog society. We are tearing ourselves to pieces. There is a much larger percentage of lower income people in the south, so they are more attuned to what is happening on the ground. Wall Street catches a cold, they get double pneumonia, just like the inner cities.

"Too big to fail" is the only thing keeping the Democratic party from sweeping the south. It's the average person who needs the social insurance, not giant companies. If government is perceived as being about helping big companies, then people want less government. Who wouldn't?

DC is blind to this. They are catering their new message toward the big companies - not even the small ones - by stuff like the Immelt announcement and so forth. We need a strategic change before the 2012 elections. Not just messaging, but action.

I hear this across the board, from bankers to mechanics to farmers to people working in the pharmacy at Walmart. There is not enough money in the world to slake the appetite for corporate jets AND satisfy the basic needs of the people.

Nothing, but nothing, is helping the public perception of TPTB. Even the Fed's QE2 program, which just hiked the price of commodities, thereby pounding another nail in the coffin of people who are barely getting by, looks like another move to warm up Wall Street at the cost of throwing a few more peasants on the fire.

That's not the Democrats fault, but it is still going to be laid at their feet.

[xchrom]

14. a populist left movement would do it.

it's getting a meaningful one on the ground and running.

[Poboy]

17. Huey P. Long!

[socialist_n_TN]

54. And the choir sang "AMEN"! As I said in a post above...........

I'd dust off some of his old speeches and update them. IF you're going to lose anyway (and you will until you can overcome inertia), give the working class and poor a REAL option economically. Not just warmed over Reaganism.

[SoCalDem]

15. It may be impossible. Events that transpired 146 years ago are still "fresh"

in many locales. There is an innate contrariness that lives & prospers in smaller communities all over the country, bolstered by media-manipulation and a re-invigoration of libertarian mythology.

Government (especially democratic government) requires a certain acceptance of "the commons" philosophy.

Republicans are great at manipulation, and they have figured out a way to "grow their own". They nurture their base from cradle to grave, and no elective office is beneath them when it comes to putting one of their own in it. the 27 yr old school board member they push into office, soon becomes mayor..then judge..then congressperson.,.then senator, etc.

We like to think of ourselves as the true big-tent party, but we often offer NO support to "smaller" offices, and then try to catapult someone into a "larger" office and are eternally surprised when it fails.

It's no surprise to me that most Dem support comes from the places of higher population. The more people there are , the more necessary it is for people to learn how to live together as a multi-cultural group. It's much harder to be cultish/clannish/exclusionary when you are mixed in with many different people from all over the place.

[Poboy]

16. Huey P. Long....where is our Huey P Long?

[CrossChris]

18. Howard Dean was so right that the Teabaggers stole all his ideas.

We need to steal them back!

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WCGreen]

22. Because every time they talk about helping the working poor,

the GOP starts blabbing about socialism and taxing your money to feed people who are not worthy of your contempt...

That is why and your friends and neighbors in Alabama perceive that all their tax money is going to give money to free loaders.

That is the simple strategy that has worked since Reagan when it comes to demonizing the poor.

You can call it anything you want, but your friends and neighbors buy into that crap about high taxes and people on welfare, ie blacks, are driving around in Cadillacs that are bought and paid for them buy hard working americans.

[socialist_n_TN]

55. Well, I wouldn't be shy about telling them to ..............

call it any fucking thing that they want as long as we get some GOOD DAMN JOBS OUT OF IT!

It's a pretty easy argument to make. Divide $2 TRILLION dollars of hoarded profit by the average annual salary or wages in a particular area (I'm too lazy to do it for Alabama) and tell folks how many jobs that would create. Then tell them that this accumulated profit has been the result of 30 years of breaks for the rich and NOTHING for the working person. We gave them all those breaks and NOW when we need them to step up, they're in the Cayman Islands shipping what's left of OUR jobs to Communist China.

Yeah, you'd still lose for a while (inertia you know), but eventually this message WOULD sink in. Southerners aren't really stupid. They just talk and change slow. But they'll remember their Granddaddies and Great Granddaddies talking about the same thing. Eventually.

[AlinPA]

24. Things got worse in 2008 (map below). Built up hate for the President and growth of the

teabaggers make it impossible.
http://countenance.wordpress.com/2008/11/09/the-red-delta-map/

[ileus]

25. embrace work? what's that mean?

[bvar22]

27. Money & Marketing.

The South is ripe for the picking.
LBJ said, "We'll lose The South for a generation.
Well, THAT generation is OVER.

A charismatic Populist echoing Huey Long with enough backing to buy a lot of TV time, who ignores the wedge social issues, and runs on a platform of Economic Justice for Working Americans can WIN anywhere in The South, or anywhere in America.
Big Bonus if this individual looks good on TV, and can ride a horse and shoot a gun.

He/she would need to keep it real simple.
When asked about ANY social/wedge issue, just repeat,
"That doesn't matter if we don't get some justice for Americans that have to Work for a Living".

Of course, it would help if the Democratic party could point to ANY issue where they helped the Working Class over the last 30 years.

[socialist_n_TN]

56. EXACTLY my thinking Bvar.............

If you're going to lose anyway, and in the South especially that's probable until you overcome the generational inertia, you might as well lose it with a populist economic message. But it's got to be spoken with passion and committment. I would be willing to bet that within a decade, things would be competitive in the South. And if it was a NATIONAL message, we'd be winning every election WHILE we overcame the inertia in the South.

As long as the elections are fair (and that's another issue/OP), you're going to see the people throwing the bums out EVERY cycle until they find someone who speaks for THEM and not the elite.

[Poboy]

76. Listen to this man. Excellent -nt

[kctim]

30. Just do what the Republicans do

Find out what they care about, respect their views and beliefs, and support them. Would work a hell of a lot better than just telling them they have to live like people on the coasts because you think that is whats best for them.

[azurnoir]

31. There is another factor that has not been mentioned yet

Christian Fundamentalism, the South is also known as the 'Bible Belt' and the GOP has firmly allied it self with Christian Fundamentalism, this will be difficult t over come as I am not sure the Democrats wish to 'go there' so winning over those with more progressive values should be the focus but adding that to the remaining resentment over LBJ's signing the civil rights act and it is a difficult challenge indeed

[socialist_n_TN]

67. I'd go right after that socialistic part of the teachings............

of Jesus on this one. Actually, that's what I actually DO. I don't know how much good it does, but it's a way to at least counter this. Rich man, eye of needle, etc.

[butterfly77]

32. K&R..

[aaaaaa5a]

33. Facts will never trump racism

Beating racism and the culture of the old South is darn there impossible. This is why it is dominated by Republicans. The only hope is chaining demographics.


A person driving a pickup truck with a confederate flag bumper plate is never going to vote for a Democrat. And we all know why.

[liberalmike27]

77. Actually

I think if you were to convince someone that republicans were making them poorer, making their economic lives worse, their kids and grandkids futures' less palatable, their abilities to get rich harder, then you might make headway with the idea that maybe one should think about their families futures as being more important than random, unknown black, hispanic, or homosexual people.

[bvar22]

96. Do you live in The South?

We moved to a very rural, very RED part of the Deep South in 2006....
from one of the bluest of blue northern Big Cities....Minneapolis.

The South is changing....especially among the youth who are growing up exposed to the multiculturalism in The Media.
Writing off The South because of a prejudice about some redneck who has a rebel flag on his pick-up is a HUGE mistake.
The Democratic party needs to be spending MORE money and time in The South....not less.
.
.
.
besides, The South is beautiful,
and belongs to us ALL.
Its a shame to just give it to the assholes.
I find it is very easy to get locals to move Left if I stick to economic arguments:
"The RICH are fucking you over, and the Republicans belong to The Rich."
Very Easy.


---bvar22 & Starkraven
Turning The South Blue one vote at a time,
and loving it here!

[X_Digger]

34. Drop gun control and get back to populism

Guns and jobs.

Economic development projects that bring jobs back to the south- even if it is simple things like call centers. Heck, even small business loans / micro-loans would help.

I grew up in rural southwest Virginia- coal country. That area was solidly blue (due in part to union support) until the late 60's / early 70's. Carter was loved (gained jobs), Reagan was hated (lost jobs), Clinton was hated (lost jobs).. see the pattern?

We kept electing Rick Boucher (D, VA-9), but otherwise turned red in many other elections.

[liberalmike27]

78. You've not been paying attention

Gun control has been purposely dropped since 2004, perhaps even the 2000 race. I've been suggesting that it just wasn't worth losing the vote over issues such as these, and I think for the most part, Democrats agree.

Even the 30 shot, 31 capacity automatic pistol issue. I mean how often is a shooting, and even with shootings how many are actually going to use this type of clip? Are we going to risk some poor trailor-dwelling rednecks votes over a stupid clip? But guns, hell Democrats have been adopting the Republican plan, guns in every insane person's hands, no questions.

But this does exemplify the problem. Some are still getting the erroneous message,likely from FOX, that democrats are still harshing the gun-nuts buzz. It ain't so, and if you'd pay attention, you'd know it,or if you'd pay attention to the right people.

Hell, they didn't even renew the assault weapons' band.

[X_Digger]

94. Meh.. McCarthy, Lautenberg, Schumer, Rendell, AG Holder, SoS Clinton, the Dem Platform..

Heck, the 'assault weapons ban' was on change.gov then witehouse.gov..

Gibbs mentioned that the president was going to address gun control 'in a couple of weeks' after the SOTU, before Egypt took precedence..

At best, the administration seems to think the political cost may be too much, rather than saying they don't want more gun control.

That 'triangulation' without actually denying they want more gun control- costs votes in the south.

[jtown1123]

35. Dems need to say very clearly Republicans want to cut Social Security.

[defendandprotect]

37. My guess is you need to get rid of the computers you're voting on ...

as we all need to do -- !!

I'm not sure there ever was a "Southern Strategy" -- I think there may have

only been computer voting!

The voting computers began to come in during the late 1960's -- and immediately

there were journalists investigaging the odd results.

Two of those journalists actually signed a book contract but when the book arrived

in the bookstores, they were immediately taken off the shelves.

VOTESCAM -- THE STEALING OF AMERICA

you can still catch up with, either via the website or used books -- usually about $3

Make sure that all pages are intact --

And/or you can read something about it at this website which the family of the

journalists keeps up.

http://www.constitution.org/vote/votescam__.htm


ALSO, keep in mind that the LARGE computers used by MSM came in during the mid-1960s

which gave them quite a new set of powres to PREDICT and CALL our elections -- and

WINNERS and LOSERS. Also to CALL the ELECTORAL COLLEGE vote by STATE naming the

WINNER and LOSER -- in other words, CALLING THE ELECTION for a new president.

What we saw in 2000 re Fox/Jon Ellis was simply a REVERSAL of those new powers!!


I'd question every election back to Nixon/Humphrey!!


PS: The two journalists were in Florida, btw --

but just wanted to mention that just prior to Watergate they had turned their info

over to Larry O'Brien head of the DNC at the Watergate.

They didn't get to visit with him -- they were only able to leave the info for him.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

38. Talk slow and don't use big words.

:hide:

(I lived in the South for most of my life, BTW)

[cynatnite]

43. Johnson said that civil rights legislation would cost him the south...

for a couple of generations. With guns, gawd, and gays in the mix you can rest assured that getting a Dem vote out of the South is like prying a buck out of Sarah Palin's teeth.

[Old Troop]

47. Off subject I know, but the subject line works perfectly for the 150th

anniversary of the start of the Civil War!

[bluestate10]

49. Stop sending.

Tax money from better educated, more successful states to southern and interior western states. Let southern and interior western states live on their gross state product earnings for a decade. Not only would they want to stay in the union, but they would vote out every republican in sight and never, ever vote republican again. I laugh when teabaggers point to California and Illinois as basket-case states economically. Give those two states back the excess tax money that they are sending to the Alabama's of the country, they close their budget deficits in two years, then go to the black forever after.

[liberalmike27]

79. I actually agree with this

Clearly the Southern states get more back from the federal government than they pay in. Either we stop doing that, or maybe we point out during Democratic administrations who butters the bread. Ask them "Why do you hate the federal government, when we give your state more money back, than you pay into the federal government in taxes?" I think you need to be more appreciative. This is true throughout the South, and it makes no sense.

[RagAss]

53. Sorry, but you're 30 generations away from even a wisp of hope.

[RandomThoughts]

62. I know what you are saying.

Although generational doctrine can only exist if people don't matter.

All thought on a future generation punished or blessed by another generation, is based on the acceptance that people mean nothing, they are a means to an ends.

Maybe it is true maybe it is not, but if true, such a concept, as it was interpreted long ago, is not a concept that I would side with. Why because it discards all generations when someone is punished for what they do not do. I say such actions are done by those that hate people that can be helped.

I can see that concept differently then some interpret it using arcane attempts to explain some things.

Quite literally, sins of the father, passed on to another generation means that people, all that you think and feel, is irrelevant and totally disregarded as having any value, for the future goal of a better set of people.

Can't you understand that if sins of the father is true, then something enforcing that does not care about you at all, and you are just throw away means to some ends?

I will chose to not believe it is true, for the possibility that it is bias or bad interpretation, because I know it is not true? no, because if it is true, then nothing matters anyways, and going to throw in with people having dignity and purpose, and mattering.

If they don't I lose nothing. If they do, then maybe it will be tougher till the shift occurs, but at least I wouldn't have sided with the concept of people having no value.

[Shagbark Hickory]

59. Maybe if the righty talkers mellowed out, we'd have a chance with a s'thn dem.

[grahamhgreen]

60. By advocating against "free trade", returning jobs to America, Jailing CEO's who hire illegal

immigrants, going after banks and corruption.

[WillyT]

63. Wouldn't That Make Us... "Crackers" ???

Just sayin...

:hide::rofl::hide:

:evilgrin:

:hi:

[socialist_n_TN]

66. All right. THAT deservess a LOL...........

:toast:

[grahamhgreen]

64. Another thing would be to turn the "sun belt" into the "Solar Power Belt".

[socialist_n_TN]

68. We seem to be getting a few of those industries..........

starting up here in Tennessee. BTW, I STILL don't see why you couldn't have a combo solar/wind system that would be able to collect even MORE power than just solar.

[morningglory]

72. We done already cracked here, suh! When a teabagger was

running for governor here in Florida (a criminal) a friend said her husband was going to vote for Scott the teabagger because "he has gotten away with so much, I want him on MY side." A friend's grandson, age 8, said he was for Scott because "He won't take our guns away." So much ignorance, and when you live in a "red" area, it gets purely depressing. You have to find normal people to talk to. I joined the Florida Native Plant Society (one of my interests) and find some fun lively people at the local meetings. I don't know what I would do without DU.

[Ramulux]

73. I seem to remember....

this guy named Howard Dean once had an idea to address this problem, I wonder what happened to it?

[Moral_Imagination]

80. We have cracked the South

Obama won VA and NC. The rest is hopeless, poor whites in the deep south think the minimum wage is a communist plot.

[craigmatic]

82. I know what you mean and you're right but the west is going to be easier to win back than the south.

We need to win and get universal health care and then once poor people get it and see how well it works they'll come around to our side in the south. That's the only way we can break repubs' advantage here. They have a messaging lock in the region. It seems like every tv in a public place in AL is tuned in to faux.

[JCMach1]

83. In Alabama? to brutally honest get African Americans to join the Republican party

[NuclearDem]

85. Wait for the white trash to realize that the Republicans aren't their friends

This may take a couple thousand years.

[NaturalHigh]

100. White trash?

Yeah, people like you are really going to be great ambassadors for the party.

[cordelia]

86. Thread started out well enough, but

has turned into yet another South bashing extravaganza.

[Abq_Sarah]

87. No surprise there

There's always been a segment here that has a deep seated contempt for the south.

[bvar22]

98. Thats OK. Let them freeze in the dark.

They're as closed minded as the stereotypes they hate.

The South is beautiful,
and belongs to us ALL.
It would be a shame to just give it all away because of a prejudice.
My wife & I claimed our piece of The South in 2006.
We love it here,
and find it is not very difficult to change minds
if we are respectful, and stick to Economic Issues.

The Democratic party needs to spend MORE time & money in The South,
not less.

[JoeyT]

89. Yep. That's not much of a suprirse.

Whining about "How come those stupid dirty white trash won't vote for us?!" will surely win them to our side.

[cordelia]

90. Yep. Want our $$$, our time, our VOTES, yet

talk about us like dirt. Real inspiring.

[NaturalHigh]

99. That's pretty much the theme here at DU.

Treat the South with contempt and then wonder why we won't "get enlightened" and see things their way. It's the same attitude a lot here have for Christians.

[JoeyT]

88. When the economic policy of both parties is pretty much the same

the only thing to make you vote for one over the other is social issues.

Obama lost a lot of what little support he already had in the deep south with the whole Free Trade is the Way Forward routine. Trying to convince us crude oil is a vitamin didn't do him any favors either. Ditto hacking apart programs that help the poor/middle class. Sure the Republicans do or want to do all that too, but that's what makes it come down to a vote on social issues.

If they actually cared about the poor and middle class and combined it with halfway decent messaging (Another field they've been sorely lacking in), they'd probably have a shot at taking the south.

Even the most right wing of right wingers will be hard pressed to give a damn about abortion or gay rights, no matter how much they oppose them, when moving either forward lets them buy food for their kids.

[Jawja]

92. I grew up and live in

Georgia and we have Diebold. So as long as we have Diebold, we will be be so called "governed" by Repulicans.

[mmonk]

93. Get rid of rightwing media.