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Can anyone with an IQ of 48 and a "moderate" learning disability consent to sex?

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Zywiec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 10:16 PM
Original message
Can anyone with an IQ of 48 and a "moderate" learning disability consent to sex?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

http://www.vancouversun.com/life/Judge+bans+with+from+h...

I think no, but believe there might be other opinions based on a previous thread and a recent article.

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Maru Kitteh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
1. Is he a person? People have a right to sexual expression if it doesn't harm anyone else.
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LuvNewcastle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
2. How intelligent does one need to be
in order to have sex?
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Sex is very complicated
Is the partner of this person aware of his intellectual state? Does she TRULY consent with knowledge of all the consequences?

No, you don't have to have high intellectual skills to HAVE sex. But you do need a minimum amount to appreciate the possible RESULTS of sex (pregnancy, STD's etc.)
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LuvNewcastle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. I'm not well-versed about IQ numbers and
what they mean, but I'm guessing that at some point lower on the scale, the ability to understand consequences is no longer there and all that's left is the will to do what one wants. I believe such people to be able to consent in the most basic way, but think it's virtually impossible to give complete adult consent.
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RichGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 10:42 PM
Response to Original message
4. Well...Sarah Palin has consented at least five times...that we know of.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 10:44 PM
Response to Original message
5. Do you mean legally or just "ok" consent?
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 11:19 PM
Response to Original message
6. Yes.
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Zywiec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. What do you thnk is the average IQ of the typical 14 year old girl? n/t
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. No clue.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. A 14 year old is a child. That's the important distinction.
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Zywiec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. So age is all that matters?
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. So stupid people can't have sex?
As much as I fear the movie "Idiocracy" may be prophetic, I can't get behind that one.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. IQ is an average, and is age based. An average 14 y/o has an IQ around 100.
Edited on Fri Feb-04-11 11:25 PM by joshcryer
Just FYI.
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NotThisTime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-11 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #12
40. That's a ridiculous notion, my sons IQ at 11 was much higher than you are suggesting age and IQ have
nothing to do with one another... If someone has an IQ of 134 at a proper testing age of a child usually around age 11, they will always have the same IQ. Your IQ does not grow with age.
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Maru Kitteh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-11 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #40
42. Yes it can, or it may diminish, and you should read up on how the system works
since you seem to have a great investment in it.
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Codeine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-11 01:34 AM
Response to Reply #9
33. The same as the average IQ of a 40 year old man.
Average.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
7. Can they answer the question?
Why not ask them?
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Zywiec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. Can a 14 year old girl answer? n/t
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. It's called a "consenting adult" for a reason.
When we start down the (apparently tempting, for many humans) road of making all sorts of arbitrary edicts about what other adults can do with their own bodies, we get into trouble. Do you support the drug war, too?
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Zywiec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. So as long as someone is at least 18
whether they have an IQ of a child or not, they can consent?

BTW. I hate the war on drugs, and the DEA as a whole.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. I think that determing someone "has the IQ of a child" is arbitrary.
Certainly not concrete enough for the drastic step of taking someone's civil liberties away in terms of being able to have sex.

You really think "protecting" someone who expresses the desire to have sex- from themselves- is worth handing over that kind of power?

I see how batshit crazy some people here get at the idea of having to show an ID at the airport or being remotely scanned by a TSA agent... yet we can't wait to set up some kind of governmental authority to determine who is "smart" enough to decide to have a sex life? :shrug:
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
8. Yes. n/t
Edited on Fri Feb-04-11 11:23 PM by lumberjack_jeff
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Zywiec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. Then I guess she can consent to sex
even though the law says it's illegal.
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underseasurveyor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
17. what is the age equivalent
Of a 48 IQ?
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Liquorice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. It's about 8 years old. nt
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Zywiec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Thanks. n/t
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underseasurveyor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #18
27. I guess that would answer the bigger question for me.
No, an eight year old is not capable of consenting for sex.
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Zywiec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-11 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. and also an 18 year old with the same IQ as well n/t
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underseasurveyor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-11 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. My point
Yes.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 11:51 PM
Response to Original message
22. No idea.
Gave up on the whole internet Fristing thing a long time ago. My education doesn't otherwise train me to answer in any other way.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
23. How do you think I got here?
:hide:
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 11:57 PM
Response to Original message
26. we have a club med for severely disabled adults up the road and they allow them to have sex
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Maru Kitteh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-11 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #26
29. You mean they don't infringe upon their rights as human beings. n/t
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-11 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #29
37. that's exactly what I meant to say
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Maru Kitteh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-11 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #37
43. :-)
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-11 01:18 AM
Response to Original message
31. What is my cat's IQ?
Can he have sex if he's not fixed?
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Codeine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-11 01:34 AM
Response to Original message
32. They're an adult.
Low intelligence or not they're adults with adult needs. You're essentially saying "Hey dude; you're kind of an idiot, so you don't get to fuck. No, no arguments now -- you're not bright enough to get to use that thing the way you'd like to."

Utterly dehumanizing.
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Liquorice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-11 02:11 AM
Response to Reply #32
35. So should an adult man with a 48 IQ be put in prison if he molests a child? How can someone
who can't be held accountable for his actions in any other regard be capable of consensual sex? On the other thread on this same subject, I wrote about a man with a 45 IQ who molested little boys in his neighborhood. He was not held responsible by the courts because he clearly didn't understand right and wrong. That man had NO BUSINESS in any sexual relationship with anyone. He simply was not capable of an adult sexual relationship because of his profound disability. A mentally disabled adult is not just someone with a low IQ; there are usually many other issues involved.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-11 04:29 AM
Response to Reply #35
36. "should an adult man with a 48 IQ be put in prison if he molests a child?"
Edited on Sat Feb-05-11 04:29 AM by Warren DeMontague
In a word? Yes.
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OnyxCollie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-11 01:37 AM
Response to Original message
34. Stop making excuses for Boehner's affairs. nt
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Nikia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-11 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
38. I do wonder about normal IQ adults having sex with them
In the people that I know, it seems to be about having someone who is easy to control. I suppose that's the case for some couples without big IQ differences too. I'm not positive if the majority of couples with a normal IQ person and very low IQ person are exploitive or not, but I tend to think that they are.
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Bjorn Against Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-11 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
39. Tough issue, but the answer has to be yes
If we were to say no then we would essentially be saying that anyone with a low IQ can not have sex without being raped. A person with a low IQ still may have sexual desires, I don't think it is right to say that they are incapable of expressing those desires.

That being said people with an IQ of 48 are very vulnerable to being taken advantage of so there are times the line between what is consensual and what is not is not as clear as we would like it to be, that is what makes it a tough issue.
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pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-05-11 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
41. My own personal opinion? I don't know....but...
according to the agency I worked for some years back, with developmentally disabled adults (or, as they were called back then, the "MR population"), the answer was YES.

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