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So, days after Obama sends special envoy Frank Wisner to Egypt, the beatings begin?

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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-11 11:42 AM
Original message
So, days after Obama sends special envoy Frank Wisner to Egypt, the beatings begin?
Edited on Thu Feb-03-11 11:47 AM by grahamhgreen


"The State Department said Monday that the former ambassador to Egypt, Frank Wisner, is now on the ground in Cairo and will be meeting with Egyptian officials" link - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/31/AR2011013103871.html


Who is Frank Wisner?


"Wisner has a long lineage in the CIA family. His father, Frank Sr., helped overthrow Arbenz of Guatemala (1954) and Mossadeq of Iran (1953), before he was undone in mysterious circumstances in 1965. Frank Jr. is well known around Langley, with a career in the Defense and State Departments along with ambassadorial service in Egypt, the Philippines, and then India. In each of these places Wisner insinuated himself into the social and military branches of the power elite. He became their spokesperson. Wisner and Mubarak became close friends when he was in country (1986-1991), and many credit this friendship (and military aid) with Egypt's support of the US in the 1991 Gulf War. Not once did the US provide a criticism of Egypt's human rights record. As Human Rights Watch put it, the George H. W. Bush regime "refrained from any public expression of concern about human rights violations in Egypt." Instead, military aid increased, and the torture system continued. The moral turpitude (bad guys, aka the Muslim Brotherhood and democracy advocates need to be tortured) and the torture apparatus set up the system for the regime followed by Bush's son, George W. after 911, with the extraordinary rendition programs to these very Egyptian prisons. Wisner might be considered the architect of the framework for this policy.




Wisner remained loyal to Mubarak. In 2005, he celebrated the Egyptian (s)election (Mubarak "won" with 88.6% of the vote). It was a "historic day" he said, and went further, "There were no instances of repression; there wasn't heavy police presence on the streets. The atmosphere was not one of police intimidation." This is quite the opposite of what came out from election observers, human rights organizations and bloggers such as Karee Suleiman and Hossam el-Hamalawy. The Democratic and Republican ghouls came together in the James Baker Institute's working group on the Middle East. Wisner joined the Baker Institute's head Edward Djerejian and others to produce a report in 2003 that offers us a tasty statement, "Achieving security and stability in the Middle East will be made more difficult by the fact that short-term necessities will seem to contradict long-term goals." If the long-term goal is Democracy, then that is all very well because it has to be sacrificed to the short-term, namely support for the kind of Pharonic State embodied by Mubarak. Nothing more is on offer. No wonder that a "Washington Middle East hand" told The Cable, " the exact wrong person to send. He is an apologist for Mubarak." But this is a wrong view. Wisner is just the exact person to send to protect the short-term, and so only-term, interests of Washington. The long-term has been set aside.

I first wrote about Wisner in 1997 when he joined the board of directors of Enron Corporation....."


MORE: http://www.counterpunch.org/prashad02022011.html


He was also Vice-chairman of AIG for a while...


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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-11 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
1. Mubarak is trying to reject the US's and the world's demand that he leave.
The US sent a person they thought could convince Mubarak, and it didn't work.
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dennis4868 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-11 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. He agreed to step...
down in September...something worked....
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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-11 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Nobody expected him to run in September and he hadn't announced he was running previously
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Bragi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-11 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. True /nt
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dennis4868 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-11 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #7
38. The guy was going to be leader until he died...
that's what dictatots do unless they get really really sick!
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Matariki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-11 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
46. From an Egyptian blogger on him actually stepping down:
I have no illusions about this regime or its leader, and how he will pluck us and hunt us down one by one till we are over and done with and 8 months from now will pay people to stage fake protests urging him not to leave power, and he will stay “because he has to acquiesce to the voice of the people”.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2011/02/the-battle-for-the-soul-of-egypt-.html
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Brother Buzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-11 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. I don't disagree
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dennis4868 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-11 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
2. Are you actually saying that Obama's
envoy is responsible for the violence?
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robdogbucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-11 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Envoy?
is that what they are called today?
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-11 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. I don't think so...
I think the poster is saying that Obama is responsible for the violence.

Sid
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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-11 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #2
16. No, just presenting the timeline, and a brief history of the envoy chosen.
I think all would agree that our ME policies have included violence in the past.

This is something that bares closer scrutiny. It would be great to get the envoy's transcripts.
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snooper2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-11 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. I think we should get some truthy on this
!
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dennis4868 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-11 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #24
39. Truth on Obama on DU?
Good luck...hahaha!
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-11 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
4. Yes. Obama sent Wisner to Egypt to order the beatings to commence...nt
Sid
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Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-11 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. And some actually believe that.
Edited on Thu Feb-03-11 12:27 PM by Ikonoklast
The stretching done in the name of derangement syndrome is of Olympic gymnastic caliber.
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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-11 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
37. Why Wisner? Why not Jimmy Carter?
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pearl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-11 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
8. Give me a fu**ing break.
Please help me.
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-11 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
10. I've been a pretty big critic of Obama but this accusation is too much.
Honestly, Mubarak was never going to leave quietly. In fact, imho, everyone's been holding their breath waiting for the violence to begin. The real shock is that it took so many days to begin!

I don't believe Wisner's visit is tied to the violence at all. We may never know the timing exactly on when Obama called Mubarak and told him to leave, if he ever has/does/or will. I think this episode will be shrouded in secrecy for many, many years because of the Israeli situation and it's geostrategic importance. And Egypt's special relationship with the US in the ME means that any information about the behind-scenes maneuvering will be highly suspect. There's going to be a lot of exactly this type of stupid speculating like in the OP.

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justiceischeap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-11 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
11. I think there's 1 tie between Wisner and the Violence...
Wisner told Mubarak to step down and since Mubarak didn't have to worry about offending his American ally any longer, he gave the word to unleash the violence. I think that's the ONLY tie to Obama and the violence.

When you have nothing to lose, you don't care how you go out. You see it all the time in hostage situations. And this is exactly what this is, a hostage situation. Mubarak is holding his nation hostage by not leaving. In his warped mind, if he has to go, he's gonna take as many with him as possible.
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Bragi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-11 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
14. The weakness of the U.S response clearly emboldened Mubarak
I think that (above) is the reality that most people at DU do not want to acknowledge.

Mubarak was toast on Tuesday night after his speech to the nation. His chopper was probably fueled and ready to go.

He was reborn and rescued the same night, however, when Obama spoke and deliberately refused to explicitly support the democracy movement's demand that Mubarak leave immediately.

That's when Mubarak and his thugs knew they had a second chance to defeat the pro-democracy movement. And that's what's playing out now.

Personally, I support the Egyptian pro-democracy movement and their demand that Mubarak step down immediately.

I would urge people at DU to do the same, and urge them to tell the WH to demand that Mubarak step down today, not months from now.
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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-11 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. And when he doesn't step down, we invade??
This notion that Obama can make a statement and DEMAND Mubarak will leave is ridiculous.

If Mubarak felt emboldened, he would have ordered the troops to clear the square.

Instead, seeing the writing on the wall. He sent, not troops, but thugs.

All he is doing is buying himself some time.

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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-11 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #19
33. Obama can simply suggest Mubarak step down now
I don't see there is a palpable difference between troops and thugs to those being shot or beaten.

Mubarak appears to have been afraid to do anything until after the US spoke.
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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-11 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. The question is - was it a deliberate move by Obama or a fuck-up. Methinks the former.
Remember, he'd been meeting with the neocons all day.
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Bragi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-11 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. I share your uncertainty
Gibbs was so ridiculous in yesterday's press briefing on the central demand of the protesters that I'm thinking it's more likely a deliberate (though unwise) choice than a mistake.

A straight-up mistake you can try to dig out of, rather than digging in deeper.

Hard to tell, though.
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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-11 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #20
34. Good point. He met with the neo-cons, not Jimmy Carter.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-11 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #14
29. Agree... Robert Fisk said Obama administration response "gutless" and "cowardly" ---
that was today on DemocracyNow! interview --
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-11 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
15. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-11 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
17. of for fuck's sake.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-11 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Right
Wisner is on our side and the people's side. He has made a career of supporting the poor people.

For fuck's sake, indeed.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-11 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #17
36. no shit
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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-11 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
21. Yes, our envoy, channeled his father, and told Mubarak to send the thugs in.
That's got to be what happened.

:sarcasm:
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-11 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #21
30. As long as Obama doesn't withdraw $$$ then he is helping keep Mubarak propped up ... still -- !!
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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-11 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #30
43. Do you think that our government would announce that ...
on TV before telling Mubarak that it was going to happen.

Also ... if we make that blanket claim, will the NEW leadership think they also won't get our help?
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-04-11 01:47 AM
Response to Reply #43
47. I think we shouldn't need a crystal ball -- we need transparency in government ....
something the Egyptians also want --
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Throd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-11 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
22. I bet he said "Give 'em a 1968 Chicago-style beatdown!"
or something just like that.

Sometimes bad things happen without American influence. I know some around here find that confusing.
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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-11 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
25. Maybe Wikileaks will someday tell us the truth about this. Until then
we won't know.
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-11 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
26. Yet another example of why we NEED the 'unrec' feature.
It's OPs like this one that scream for an unrec function---hell, this is precisely the kind of bullshit that needs to stay off the front page.
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-11 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #26
42. +1...nt
Sid
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EnlightenedOne Donating Member (452 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-11 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
27. Oh, the desperation is really pathetic
Sounds like a Faux Noise soundbite.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-11 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
28. Thank you -- had just seen him name mentioned in Family of Secrets --
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-11 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
31. Let's be Frank about the Wisner family, they are loyal to TPTB, not US
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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-11 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Oops
Edited on Thu Feb-03-11 04:29 PM by grahamhgreen
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-11 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
35. This belongs on the Glen Beck show n/t
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Cali_Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-11 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
40. I fail to see the connection. n/t
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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-11 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
41. This is the opposite of the Obama boosters who claimed Obama deserved the credit for the Egyptian
peoples' uprising. Keep that in mind as you guffaw, boosters.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-11 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
44. But, does he know where Mubarak's 40 billion US dollars are hidden?
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-03-11 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
45. The unrecs are sure out in numbers here
K & R
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