Egypt Gov’t Attacks Protesters With Thugs (Tahrir Sq. Is A Battleground & It's Spreading)

[Turborama]

Source: BM

Egyptian protesters on Wednesday reported demonstrators in support of President Hosni Mubarak entered scenes of peaceful demonstration against the aging president and started throwing rocks in an effort to start violence, one day after Mubarak said political forces were behind the protests and violence.

In central Cairo, the army seemingly did not attempt to stop the pro-Mubarak demonstrators from attacking the thousands of anti-government protesters, sparking one activists to lament, “the army has failed us. They are paying these thugs to come in and attack us so they can try and get violence and clashes to start between the Egyptian people. Is this what people want, no, we want to see Mubarak go and out government for the people,” said 22-year-old Mohamed Radwan from near the violence.

As the violence appears to be spiraling out of control, pandemonium has arrived in Egypt. The fighting comes after the army said it would not use force to disperse the anti-government protesters, but obviously they have let the pro-government demonstrators to enter the central square.

One eyewitness told Bikya Masr that “the media need to stop talking about clashes and start telling the world that these government people attacked us. Tell the truth so governments can tell Mubarak to go away and stop killing his people. This is a crime against his people.”

Read more: http://bikyamasr.com/wordpress/?p=25298

---

Mubarak's supporters came armed. Using camels and horses now.

Al Arabiya TV reporter has been stabbed. There's a major battle going on. Serious clashes breaking out in the side streets around the square.

Army doing nothing. Yet.

Live feed on Al Jazeera English showing fighting and rocks being thrown in the square: http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/

[xchrom]

1. well -- the people -- i don't believe will be intimidated by mubarak thugs. nt

[elias49]

2. How do 20,000 'far outnumber' the half-million 'detractors'

who have been in downtown Cairo for the past several days?

[liberal N proud]

3. I was wondering about that math myself.

The media will twist the numbers any way the like.

[Turborama]

4. Got rid of that asap. Sky have been really hyping up the Pro-Mubarak mob of thugs

AJ English are doing a really good job of reporting FACTS on the ground. It's worth just watching their live stream.

[dipsydoodle]

6. There has continually been something odd about the numbers

2 million was mentioned yesterday. For the square to hold that number it would need be about 1km square which it isn't.

Best draw your own conclusions from tv news footage.

[CJvR]

20. Probably only...

...on the front line.

I suspect the Pro-Mub mob is better organized and came looking for trouble unlike the protesters. From the video it looked like the charge advanced until it had compressed the opponents enough to stiffen the resistance.

[fasttense]

5. I love this line:

"There are rumors that the pro-Mubarak crowds, representing a cross-section of society, have been paid to support the president, but the sheer number of people makes that unlikely."

First, how do they know the pro-Mubarak crowd represents a cross-section of society? Did they do a survey?

The sheer number of people makes it unlikely that the dictator in charge of a country could NOT afford to pay 20,000 people? Really? Even after they admit that these people were bussed in, they say they weren't paid.

Is the country that poor they can't afford to hire 20,000 people for one day? Better yet get 20,000 government workers to march and just pay them their normal salaries. The bushes did this with DOD contract and civilian workers. But I guess Egyptians are just not as smart as the bushes.

[dipsydoodle]

11. It is fact

that the CSF are paid more than the rest of the population. They number c. 300,000 in total as opposed to c/450,000 army.

That is mainly what Mubarak uses US aid for : not the obvious tanks and helicopters etc.

Best thing the US could do is cut the aid - now.

[Turborama]

12. Sky are pushing Mubarak's violent tactics today as a "counter-revolution"

Sorry, that's bullshit!

On edit, sorry, wasn't aimed at you. I was reading your reply and heard Adam Bolton describe it that way and it sent me off. :hi:

[dipsydoodle]

14. Not a problem.

I don't wholly agree with you. Both outfits are using exactly the same film footage - just providing different commentaries and comments. I compared the live film footage on tv - not the computer.

Sky have no motive to scew the news.

[Turborama]

16. No, Al Jazeera English have their own cameras. Plus, I don't trust any news network owned by Murdoch

It's just a thing I have about him.

Adam Bolton and Tim Marsh's commentary has been decidedly pro Mubarak supporters today.

[dipsydoodle]

17. In that case Sky are using Al Jazeera's cameras too.

Trust me - the footage is identical i.e. from the same camera.

[Turborama]

18. having said that, Lisa Holland gave a good analysis just then. Spolied it a bit at the end, though

Glad Adam Bolton has gone.

You could be right about the cameras, I suppose it doesn;t matter in the great scheme of things though. As long as we get better coverage than Egytian State TV.

[dipsydoodle]

19. Egyptian State TV

might as well be showing the Muppets. They have just said they Mubarak is are not sponsoring the antis - maybe I should've said Pinnochio.

Blood is being spilled today.

Hasta La Victoria Siempre - Ernesto Che Guevara's sign off in his last letter to Fidel.

Onward to Victory !

[Turborama]

46. LOL, yeah, Pinocchio would be much more apt! n/t

[TMcCaleb]

59. quoting

Che and Castro ? How are they any different than Mubarak?

[karynnj]

27. Senator Leahy is speaking of withholding some of the aid if he does not leave quickly

Leahy heads the Appropriations sub committee that appropriates the money for foreign aid.

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2011/02/01/sens-kerry-leahy-call-on-mubarak-to-leave-before-sept-election/

My guess is that the THREAT to cut aid has more impact than actually doing it because of the time before the latter would happen and be felt - not to mention the threat is a "stick" to use as a lever.

[csziggy]

45. CSF are the Egyptian Police? If so, are they the pro-Mubarek crowds?

I'm only watching CNN and MSNBC - Anderson Cooper and his crew were attacked by the pro-Mubarek crowd earlier. TV crews and people with cameras seemed to be the first attacked when I first started watching about 8 AM Eastern.

Both CNN and MCNBC have repeatedly stated that there are no Egyptian police in evidence. They have to be somewhere and they have not been visible for days. Even Joe Scarborough (I think it was) commented that it was suspicious that Mubarek made his statement that he would stay through the elections and suddenly for the first time pro-Mubarek demonstrators show up and instigate violence.

[dipsydoodle]

7. Pro Mubarak thugs now using horses and camels.

.

[yellowcanine]

31. They are remarkably well organized and supplied for spontaneous protesters.

I am guessing either police regulars in plain clothes or secret police.

[dipsydoodle]

33. Mubarak paid them to be there

They are Central Security Forces.

That's what a high proportion of US aid is used for - pay the CFS high wages , all 300.000 of them , and sepcials for jobs like this.

The Egyptian population are aware of this which is why they love your people but hate your government.

[alsame]

8. Also happening in Suez per AJE, though the numbers of pro

are much smaller.

[Turborama]

9. Interesting comments about the demographic of the pro-Mubarak mob, too.

Also that yesterday the army strictly searched everyone, and now they're just letting the violent thugs go for it.

[alsame]

13. Yes, this is very troubling.

[Jefferson23]

10. Mubarak the bastard giving it all he's got. n/t

[bdamomma]

30. I guess he is flexing muscle, jerk

he needs to leave.

[TMcCaleb]

60. no

different than Iran's crackdown two years ago.

[Jefferson23]

65. No? Mubarak is not the driving force behind the recent violence?

I'm not sure I understand your remarks here.

Welcome to DU btw.

[TMcCaleb]

66. I agree

that he needs to step down just dont want chaos/Muslim brotherhood takeover.

[Jefferson23]

67. There is a lot of propaganda spread about the MB, most of it is bullshit. n/t

[Ghost Dog]

15. BBC similarly reports here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

#
1320: Opposition figurehead Mohamed ElBaradei tells the BBC he is extremely concerned about the Tahrir Square clashes, and accuses the government of using "scare tactics".
#
1319: The BBC's Jeremy Bowen says sources told him that the ruling party had a meeting on Tuesday, and they decided to get their people back out on the streets.
#
1317: Sharifkouddous tweets: "More and more pro-Mubarak ppl are heading to Tahrir. Why did the army let them in?"
#
1314: The BBC's Jeremy Bowen in Cairo says: "There's a lot of violence. People are badly bloodied. They are saying they've been taken prisoner. I've seen people with some real nasty wounds. It's an ugly ugly atmosphere. The army are standing by watching."
#
1312: Reuters reports that the men on horses and camels are Mubarak supporters who charged on opposition protesters, wielding sticks and whips.
#
1309: Men on horses and camels have entered Tahrir Square in Cairo, as clashes again break out in Tahrir Square.
#
1302: Latest pictures from Tahrir Square appear to show violence has now subsided.
#
1300: Egyptian journalist Nadia el-Awaddy, at Tahrir Square, tells the BBC that tear gas was used during clashes between rival sets of protesters.
#
1258: The BBC's security correspondent Frank Gardner says: "A few days ago it looked like Hosni Mubarak was going to be the next Arab leader driven out of office. This no longer looks to be the case. This is going to be taken in by other Arab leaders, who are recalibrating their responses. So this is not quite the spectacular revolution the protesters were hoping for."
#
1257: British officials say nationals wanting to leave Egypt will have to pay £300 for a seat on one of the charter flights laid on by the government.
#
1251: Dubai's al-Arabiya TV says pro-Mubarak protesters have assaulted one of their reporting crews and destroyed their equipment.
#
1249: Reuters says the protesters involved in clashes in Tahrir Square were using stones and sticks, and about 10 people at the scene were wounded.
#
1236: More from the BBC's Jim Muir: "It's not clear how much violence is happening, but projectiles have been thrown. There is a huge potential for conflict. The army had previously succeeded in keeping Mubarak supporters away from the square, but the army lines appear to have been breeched."
#
1235: The BBC's Jim Muir in Tahrir Square confirms that clashes are going on between opposition protesters and pro-Mubarak groups.
#
1231: Al-Jazeera TV broadcasts pictures of running battles in Tahrir Square, backing up earlier AFP report (see 1227).
#
1230: A Mubarak supporter tell state-run Nile TV why she has joined a rally in support of the president: "Please forgive me Mr President, I cried when I heard your speech. May God forgive them, We love you Mr President."
#
1227: Opposition protesters tell AFP news agency that undercover police have stormed their protest in Tahrir Square.

[Turborama]

21. Pro Mabarak thugs have taken over army vehicles! Just saw the army protecting a restaurant, FFS!

Gunshots!

[CJvR]

22. Gunfire!

It seems as if the pro-Mub mob have managed to capture a few army trucks...

[captain jack]

23. "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half." nt

[snot]

53. great line; source?

[bushisanidiot]

24. looks like it was an organized attack against the peaceful protesters

my money is on Mubarak hiring thugs to do his dirty work since the military won't fire on the people.

[Turborama]

25. Thousands of anti-Mubarak reinforcements on the way! Could Mubarak have thrown his last roll of dice

?

[Bragi]

28. He and his regime are emboldened by Obama's speech

When Obama declined last night to explicitly back the protesters demand for Mubarak's immediate departure, he had to know that this would inevitably breath life into the faltering Mubarak regime, which plans to stay on until after the already-scheduled September elections.

To say the least, I am disappointed that Obama failed to back the protesters and their demand that Mubarac leave immediately (as did John Kerry yesterday.) Personally, I hope today's attacks by Mubarak's plain-clothes police thugs aren't enough to prop up the regime beyond Friday, when the next big "day of rage" is to take place.

[dionysus]

40. yes, totally obama's fault.

jesus christ...
:rofl:

[Bragi]

41. I follow events, not the WH talking points /nt

[dionysus]

49. otay.

[Turborama]

57. I tend to agree somewhat with that summation. But to be honest I haven't been taking much notice...

...of what the US administration have been saying.

I'm hearing a lot about what the Egyptians are saying on AJ English, though.

[TMcCaleb]

61. don't recall

Obama demanding free elections in Iran.

[Turborama]

26. When does it officially become a civil war? n/t

[Iterate]

43. What we don't know

yet would be splits within the military. I suppose to this point we may be horrified, but we shouldn't be surprised because this is exactly how Mubarak has ruled, by using fear and intimidation with the party and security forces as his tools.

[dipsydoodle]

29. twitter note on #25

http://www.google.com/search?q=%23Jan25+site:twitter.com&tbs=mbl:1&tbo=1&num=100&hl=en&sa=G&biw=1280&bih=705&ei=_MdATZzzH8KVcYGg_Y0C&ved=0CF0QsQcwBQ

We have no quarrel with the US people. You r our brothers and sisters. We only HATE your hypocritical govt.

‎
bloggingegypt‎ RT @3arabawy: We have no quarrel with the US people. You r our brothers and sisters. We only HATE your hypocritical govt. #solidarity #jan25
Twitter - 2 minutes ago

[Bragi]

42. Sums it up in less than 140 characters

Last night, Obama refused to explicitly back the demands of the protesters that Mubarak leave now, not nine months from now. I think this emboldened Mubarak and his supporters, which is what has caused them to take a final shot at defeating the uprising.

My hope is that Mubarak is gone by Friday, despite Obama's refusal to back the key demand of the uprising.

[dipsydoodle]

47. Obama's addresses are broadly speaking to the US public

They go down like a lead balloon in Egypt.

Difficult to please everyone I guess :sarcasm:

I do think that US selfishness at this time may come back to bite them.

[mod mom]

32. who are these thugs? Are they Egyptian security forces or just who?

[dipsydoodle]

35. Yes

No doubt about that at all.

Maybe time for US to shut down aid at elast for the time being - that's what used to pay the CSF.

[mod mom]

36. The avg citizen doesn't know how to commandeer a tank

so I figured they must have special training

[dipsydoodle]

38. Its not tanks they commandeered

Some sort of armoured cars. Maybe time for the peaceful protestors to get themselves some petrol , a few bottles, some rag and a box of matches.

[CJvR]

37. Dont misstake...

... a massive anti-Mubarak movement with no support for Mubarak. There are plenty who profit from his goverment economically or in political power. There are plenty who would prefer status quo, add to that the traditional urge to go along with a strong leader and you could drum up plenty of troublemakers.

[EFerrari]

50. NDP party thugs, too possibly. People essentially being paid to fight

for Mubarak.

[rucky]

52. Couple of Tweets say that some of them are released prisoners

given guns and told to break up the protests. Another says some of them are too poor to let the protests go on, which doesn't make sense, but...

Maybe Mubarak's draining the treasury so the police thugs can pay off other thugs?
:shrug:

[dipsydoodle]

34. Shadows on the buildings show the sun is setting

Hope this don't turn even worse in the dark. :(

[CJvR]

39. Night will not improve things.

More confusion and chaos. Throwing rocks is nasty but if you want a body count, and I suspect Mubarak do, then you want knife and clubs in dark alleys rather than a lot of stone throwing.

I still think the protesters made a huge mistake in not pushing harder on Friday when they routed the security organizations. Now they have had several days to reorganize and plan and the protesters have to win the streets all over again.

[Hutzpa]

44. This is exactly what Isreal wants

to show the world that Egypt is not ready for Democracy.

It's easy to see who is behind this sudden movement of thugs.

[cali]

48. wait a minute- you're actually claiming that Israel is behind this?

that's pretty crazy.

[Hutzpa]

54. I am saying this sudden riot smells like

skunk to me, recently a cabinet minister make a statement saying Egyptians are not ready for Democracy
at the beginning of the protest, you can argue that Israel has nothing to do with this but Israel is
the only nation that does not support the protesters.

[rucky]

51. Why is the Army even there, then?

I thought it was to prevent things from getting violent. Now they have no excuse for not intervening, but some reports say they've abandoned tanks, etc. Maybe they're disobeying orders to protect the regime?

[Turborama]

55. More photos and a map...

Fury: Rocks were thrown as pro-government Egyptians rode through the crowds on camels

[Turborama]

56. Shit! Just heard a machine gun! n/t

[Turborama]

58. Reuters: Over 1,500 wounded in central cairo clashes - doctor

Feb 2 (Reuters) - More than 1,500 people were injured in Cairo on Wednesday in clashes between supporters and opponents of Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, a doctor at an emergency clinic set up at the scene told Reuters.

From: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/02/egypt-protests-casualties-idUSLDE7112LH20110202

No numbers on fatalities yet...

[TMcCaleb]

62. no

different than Iran's crackdown two years ago.

[TMcCaleb]

63. Egypt needs

an orderly transition...........don't want the Muslim brotherhood taking over.

[Turborama]

64. They won't take over. Don't believe the Neocon/Islamophobic hype.

Peter Bergen Explains Why The Muslim Brotherhood Are Unlikely To Take Over Egypt
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x312744

We Want What You Have: We Want our Freedom
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x549410