President Obama Egypt Speech thread ****starting now.

[dixiegrrrrl]

[elleng]

1. You're so QUICK, dxgrl!

[dixiegrrrrl]

18. Had a cup of wonderful tea about an hour ago. It kicked in.

[dixiegrrrrl]

2. We've stood for core principles.

opposing violence
applauds army for protecting people

2nd: Universal values, rights of Egyptian people to rights of speech, to access information, "universal rights"

3rd" We have spoken on need for change, I spoke to Mubarak, he realizes status quo not sustainable , change needs take place.

[dixiegrrrrl]

6. "My belief orderly transition must be begin NOW"

Must involved various parties, we stand ready to provide assistance to people, blah blah.

He is talking as if protests are over.

[gateley]

3. Come on, Obama, are you going to say "it" or not? nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. He has, parse it

[elleng]

20. ...

:thumbsup:

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. Oh a funny note

Watching it on both MSNBC and AJ, and there is a 30 second lag on Al Jazeera, dang satellite.

[gateley]

5. Orderly transition, etc., etc., Waiting, waiting... nt

[gateley]

7. I don't get a sense of where he's going -- anybody???? nt

[xchrom]

13. You can't go any where with double speak.

You can't be blamed sand that's the point.

[dixiegrrrrl]

15. "Orderly transition of power, free elections, etc"

Change must begin NOW.

In other words, we want a friendly government, we got Murbarak to resign, and we want to control the changed events in the future.

[Raschel]

38. He's with the people, keep revolting peacefully, army stay in line, Mubarak leave now.

[elleng]

8. Thanks for non-violence.

Universal rights
Technology
Need for change. Spoke w Mub after speech; Recognizes need for change.
Only Egypt people can determine leaders.
Orderly transition must start now, peaceful, free, fair elections.
Egypt young people: We hear you.
Confident people of Egypt will find answers.

[dixiegrrrrl]

9. I am confident, blah blah blah.

New generation, great and ancient civilization, and ..........he walks away.
No questions.

[Desertrose]

11. WHA????????

That's it?!?

[RandySF]

12. Notice that he spoke to the military

as if Mubarek has no bearing n what they do.

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. Notice that the Military said we wil not take up arms

against the people...

So they are actually somewhat independent actors here. Mubarak said to the army to use force... if they don't, well then... why he spoke to the military.

[PufPuf23]

57. USA /Egyptian military ties exist.

We have been giving Egypt $1.3 Billion per year in military aid.

The Egyptian Air Force has on the order of 220 F-15/16s.

Several Egyptian Generals were in DC and went home early.

One would hope that the USA would be getting ready humanitarian supplies and a hospital ship to be followed by a bunch of construction eqipment and materials.

I like Egypt, never met an Egyptian I did not like, and a room in my house has Egyptian decor. Love the history and mystery.

One hopes that Israel does not do something stupid such as aid Mubarek or have a dust-up with Palastine.

[tishaLA]

14. As David Corn just wrote...

"O's main message: waiting until Sept, Hosni, is just not good enough"

[gateley]

19. Look, I've been defending his "politics" behind this, but if he "said" it, he should

have been more clear. So David Corn is getting it better than I (not surprising), and all of the experts on MSNBC agree.

[Raschel]

39. What should he have said? Mubarak, get out now? I think transition must start now is pretty clear.

[gateley]

63. No, I actually agree that it's politics and diplomacy, but after that speech by Mubarak

I was hoping he was going to kick some ass and be a little more concise. And, really, what could he have said? It's not his call. I was just hoping for blood, I guess, because Mubarak pissed me off.

[Raschel]

67. But that's something the moose lady would have done. Thank God Obama isn't a reactionary.

:hi:

[gateley]

70. You're right and you're right.

:7 :hi:

[Raschel]

36. Right. Why don't people understand this? The President will not say "the transition must start now"

unless that's what he means.

[gateley]

16. Another speech today that left my jaw hanging. All the experts, rational, reasonable

experts who understands all that's required for a "transition" -- are saying that Mubarak must leave now and Obama needed to say so.

Even though Tweety said he thinks that's what Mubarak was saying, I'm not so sure.

I think he was still walking that time.

[dixiegrrrrl]

17. Yeah, but I hear in all that emphasis on future elections

that USA wants to be involved and I wonder where the money will be sent in future.

[gateley]

23. He needs to take it a step at a time. Like the guy with the carnation is saying,

we aren't sophisticated enough to pick up all the nuances these pros can.

I'm disappointed.

And I didn't get the emphasis on the future elections like you did. Like Congressman Ackerman said (heard the name of the carnation guy) I'm not sophisticated enough and I'm not being snarky -- I really don't know know so many times what they're saying. :shrug:

This is, to me, so meh that I can just see DU taking sides now! He didn't tell Mubarak to step down! Yes he did!

:)

[chimpymustgo]

21. Tweety has misinterpreted this event from the start. Richard Engel was yelling at him on Friday.

[gateley]

24. As much as I was defending his approach, chimpy, I have to admit I was hoping for

more definitive.

[chimpymustgo]

30. I thought he ALMOST finessed it, but once again missed a historic moment.

I'm more sad than disappointed, I think.

[gateley]

32. I think politically he probably took the right approach. As some wise DUer wrote,

part of diplomacy is getting what you want but allowing the person to save face.

Just because it wasn't worded to make me jump up and go YES! other people understood it far better than I so I'm sure Mubarak did, too.

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. Here the relevant part

"Any orderly transition must be meaningful, must be peaceful, and must begin now."

Translation, you must go, and do this peacefully.

[Bragi]

43. "...and waiting till September to leave will be fine" /nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. Given that the PRESIDENT'S SPECIAL ENVOY told him an hour

before that he must go... you NEED THE FULL FUCKING CONTEXT HERE.

What you are seeing is something that the chimperor used NOT to do... DIPLOMACY.

[Bragi]

55. So you base your views on an alleged secret meeting?

And then lecture me on CONTEXT!

[nadinbrzezinski]

58. It is the full context of the day

Anyway, have a good day... I did get a decoder ring at one time... having done this shit at a very low level, aka having to measure words, helps to translate this, as well as a deep knowledge of history. That alleged meeting did happen, and the leaks were not accidental either.

Have a good one...

[Bragi]

61. Then you know this: always look for what is NOT said

And in this case, what is NOT said is what the protesters have been saying since Jan. 25: "The time to leave is now, Mr. Mubarak."

You have a nice day too.

[chimpymustgo]

62. I agree he was being diplomatic, but not sure about Mubarak getting it. The coming days will tell.

But he's got to get Mubarak OUT before things blow and get ugly. But he knows that.

[gateley]

68. There's really only so much he can do, and I'm guessing he did that on the phone

call to Mubarak after Mubarak's speech. Even if he came out and said "you should be gone by Thursday" how's he really gonna make him leave?

I'm watching another clip now, and I must say, he does look a little ticked off -- did you get that sense or is it just me? :7

[chimpymustgo]

72. Yes! I think so. But see, that lends a whiff of impotence. There seems to be too much "couched"

language, and indirect references. Some of our self-proclaimed, more knowledgable-in-the-ways-of Diplomacy friends here say this is all going like diplomatic clockwork, but I worry Obama has left the door open for a stalling game - and a void that might be filled with violence.

Listening to Rachel and Richard Engel deconstruct Mubarak's speech now. Hope they talk about Obama's next.

[gateley]

74. Did you hear the Tunisian guy's speech? Yikes! I took hope that he was on a

plane the next day. I didn't get whether he beat a hasty retreat because his wife robbed the banks or if they'd already taken care of that and he just gave the speech as a last "I've been wronged! Why didn't you love me?" statement. a "You'll be sorry"?

[nadinbrzezinski]

76. People at that level do not get it

that people dom't love them.

See the comedy of errors in Haiti with Duvalier... he honestly thought he could parachute in and become a hero.

[gateley]

78. Haha -- this image cme into my head:

[nadinbrzezinski]

79. Turn him around

and caption this with THEY LOVE ME, they REALLY DO.

[tishaLA]

22. I think people who understand the language of diplomacy understand

what the speech said. It won't please Cenk, though.

[gateley]

26. Yeah but like Congress Ackerman said, Tweety and the pros get it, we on the

street don't -- not sophisticated enough. And I admit it, that's me -- at the end I was going Huh? Many of you get it which is great, but what about the people like me and those in Egypt asking for a firm statement from Obama?

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. The speech was meant at Hosni and the regime

not the street.

[gateley]

35. But , but, but...

:7

Some people on the street in Egypt feel as though Obama hasn't been 'strong' enough. We need to mend fences with the people of Egypt, too, so that's a valid consideration, IMO.

And I'm guessing Hosi and the regime know exactly how Obama feels, it's been said Obama privately told him to go now (maybe through the liaison, yet he just blows him off, digs in his feet and plans to keep on keepin' on.

[nadinbrzezinski]

50. we are at end game... two weeks worst case

Mubarak is at Sharm El Sheik... every person who knows a LOT MORE than I do on this has said such as well.

As to the people, right now we are watching a very high wire diplomatic conversation... I am sure one thing that the US will do is recalibrate the foreign aid and include in the combo more of this.



That is how you help the successors get friends in lower places.

Why some idiots in congress want to defund it too.

[gateley]

64. I know you're right, nad. Thanks for talking me down. I love the two weeks prediction -

I'll hang on to that! :)

[nadinbrzezinski]

73. It is not mine, it is an Arabist at MSNBC

and BBC tonight was going over that too.

[dixiegrrrrl]

28. Translation for ya gately:

Obama to Mubarak:

don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya.

[gateley]

41. Ok, now THAT I get!

But as I just said to nad, don't you suppose that Obama (or envoy) already made that sentiment known already?

I'm wondering if Obama was pissed at Mubarak's speech - it was pretty arrogant and in your face.

I'm bowing to you guys who are better adept at understanding this than I. And I've been a big champion of "he's gotta say one thing in public, but that's no indication of what's going on behind closed doors", but apparently I don't pay attention to my wise spoutings. :hi:

[dixiegrrrrl]

71. Making that sentiment known privately is one thing.

First , Hillary spoke, publicaly, in diplomatic terms, then Washington weighed the reaction, from all over,
tested the wind,( including Israel's reaction) then sent that envoy over to talk to Mubarak, in private, plus the phone calls back and forth.

Stating publicly has another purpose.

There is a lot of criticism about USA taking a stance or no, which was purpose of a public statement.
Then he emphasized the word "NOW" ..."starting NOW", which was a slap on the wrist to Mubarak for trying to shilly shally.
On balance, which is worse? Having a long term revolution in Eygypt, on top of others in the Middle East, or
trying to quell the revolution by publicly supporting the dismissal of a failed puppet?


However, there is another, perhaps unintended, perhaps intended message.

Remember the US has a habit of propping up dictators.
And a habit of letting go of them when they become a liability.
So our other puppets in the region are watching very closely.
And keeping a nervous eye on their population.

That's my take anyhow.

[gateley]

77. I think your take makes a lot of sense. nt PS -- GREAT cartoon! nt

[Raschel]

40. The President even said "and it must......begin....now" more slowly and emphatically.

[gateley]

42. And you know something? I totally missed that! But looking at the other posts

here, apparently I'm the only one! :blush:

[nadinbrzezinski]

51. Well I will give this to the chimperor... he wasn't into

diplomatese. After eight years of that... I had to recalibrate my ears to this

[Raschel]

52. I don't think you're the only one.

:hug:

[gateley]

66. Aw, thanks Raschel!

Back atcha! :hug:

[blondeatlast]

33. Bingo. nt

[Bragi]

44. Translation: Mubarak can stay till September

That is not what the Egyptian people have been saying for the past 7 days.

[Catherina]

59. +10000 n/t

[sabrina 1]

53. Who are these 'special' people, the ones 'who understand diplomacy'

that he is talking to? Did he not make a speech to the AMERICAN PEOPLE? We are who he is responsible to. Is there a special language now that we need to take a course in to understand what the POTUS is saying to us? And if he wasn't talking to the American People, why speak in public?

The only people who matter here are the American people, whose money has been going to prop up dictators like Mubarak, and the Egyptian people who have fired the dictator.

There is nothing these 'special' people can do about it, the dictator cannot work for us anymore, he's fired.

I'm sorry, but enough with this 'parsing of words' nonsense. Just say what needs to be said.

[chimpymustgo]

65. Excellent post, sabrina1.

[nadinbrzezinski]

81. You do realize this ran

oh all over the ME too on Al Jazeera.

No he wasn't talking ONLY to us. Yet it is part of that thing called being President. The day we go back to third rate power... like oh 1789.. then the President will not have to worry about how the words are interpreted abroad. I know some people would love for that to happen... this is actually accelerating that process... see soft power going POOF! But until we are no longer a big player... crisis anywhere, words of the President matter. And yes, they are parsed.

Have you ever been to a foreign city when POTUS visits? It is an experience. To paraphrase a Mexican Reporter from when Obama visited..."It is like Caesar just came to vist the colonies." And the projection of force... and closing of a very busy international airport. People should make a point to be in the same city... Then perhaps they will understand the power in the office.

[sabrina 1]

84. How awful and frightening 'It is like Caesar just came to visit the colonies'

That is what badly needs changing. We did not elect Caesar. We elected a politician to work for us on fixing some of the things that badly need fixing.

I have been in a foreign country when the POTUS was visiting. I didn't see that kind of reaction. Some people barely noticed. They have their own leaders and aside from a little curiosity, most people ignored ignored him. That was in Europe, and the president was Clinton. They were respectful, they liked him, but there is no way they saw him as any kind Caesar. He's a man, no different than any other man. He wanted a job, we hired him. To put people like this on a pedastal is very dangerous.

The president needs to speak clearly. WE DO NOT SUPPORT DICTATORS. It's simple. We had no problem saying it when it suited us, re Saddam eg. A former 'friend and ally' (what dictator isn't?).

There is no mystery at all about why this president will not speak clearly about this situation. We know why and most importantly, so do the people of Egypt and just about everyone else in the world.

This strategy is not working where it counts, with the people. And the world is now shifting to a time when people power is on display from Latin America to Africa, soon to the ME.

Sorry I'm not buying any of this nonsense at all. I like straight talk and so do most people. Speaking only to the leaders of other countries, many of whom do not have the interests of the people at heart, doesn't impress people anymore.

He needs to start talking to the people. He has not, it's not a big secret why he hasn't, a majority of the people in the world, are not impressed with these 'oooooh, he's so important' games. He's not, 80 million people are way, way more important any one man, including Caesar.

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. He did, but he did so in diplomatese

which is a foreign language, I admit.

Once it is released, read it again. Concentrate on things must change and transition. He really cannot do a Bush'ism and go all out here.

[gateley]

45. Damn, I was expecting the codpiece! :-) nt

[riverwalker]

31. He was specifically talking to the Army

about remaining non-violent. I thought he was pretty clear and direct to the military. They are the recipient of all the U.S. money. He gave that stern "look" to the camera.

He also said: "Transition must begin NOW" and then "I talked with President Mubarak for 30 minutes"....then "it's up to the Egyptian people to decide who their leader is" in the same sentence.

I heard: "I talked to that crazy fool for half an hour, told him to leave and he said he ain't going anywhere" Therefore... "whatever you people do, I am behind you 100% His ass is hanging in the wind as far as I'm concerned".

[gateley]

48. I admit -- he looked all business and none too pleased. I keep wondering if

Mubarak's speech pissed him off, because he WAS awfully defensive, whiny and still, I thought, arrogant.

I LOVE what you heard! That's what I'm going to glomp on to! :hi:

[nadinbrzezinski]

82. That is a pretty good translation of diplomatese

[Bragi]

37. Obama key message: Mubarak can stay till September

The people want him out now.

Obama stated no objection to him staying till September.

I'd say we have a gap here.

[gateley]

49. Man, don't say that! I've just been convinced, and tend to agree, that's not

what he was saying although that's what I originally thought. He WAS pretty stern and no-nonsense.

Let's see what happens of Mubarak blows him off.

[Bragi]

54. Trust your own ears, and judgement

Mubarak has no reason to do anything due to Obama's speech other than what he said in his earlier statement today: he will lead a "transition" with "partners" and stay on until after the September elections.

[Raschel]

60. Mubarak knows the US has given him the heave ho. Whatever transpires now is on his shoulders.

The US has aligned itself now so that it is in the position that it can speak out against Mubarek now because he has been given the chance to bow out.

He's on his own. If he attempts to use force he's screwed.

[gateley]

69. Oh, I'm always all over the place. I see both sides of every argument and it drives

me crazy.

And to be realistic, a speech by Obama isn't going to make Mubarak do anything he doesn't want to. He made his feelings clear before the speech, and spoke with him after -- I bet he was pissed.

And there are practical considerations that need to be addressed - leaving the Egyptian people hanging doesn't help them at all. Although they seemed to do very well on their own during this uprising.

See? I'm all over the place! Just ignore me, but thanks for your advice. :hi:

[Raschel]

75. I don't know how I keep replying to your posts!

I'm not stalking you, promise. Now I'm the one that's :blush:

[gateley]

83. Too little too late. I already called the authorities.

:7

I never even noticed - but I will from now on! :rofl: :hi:

[BlueCheese]

46. It's one thing for the transition begins now...

But when does it end? Does that mean Mubarak should resign now? Or that he should start preparing for the eventual handover? If he's supposed to resign now, who takes his place? The new VP? What did the prez say about that?

[Raschel]

56. That is where the ambiguity comes in, on purpose, leaving our alliance clear, and at the same time

not leaving us liable for Mubarek's actions. Perfect.

Chess move is now Mubarak's.

[EFerrari]

80. As it stands now, the VP takes over by Egyptian law.

That's why they rushed to appoint our torture collaborator, to have him in place.

However, the protesters will never accept him. Their position is that they will enter into talks about transition with the military AFTER Mubarak steps down. Which means they have no intention of recognizing Sulieman.