Is this as bad as I think it is?

[WilliamPitt]

I have been known on more than one occasion to defend the President even when he didn't necessarily deserve it. I've also kicked him in the ass more than once.

This is an excellent Republican speech. There were a few belly-rubs - new energy policy, and oh we love the children - but he has been kissing GOP ass from beginning to end.

Please tell me I'm just an insane person. Been writing all day, maybe I'm addled.

But Jesus God...what is this crap?

Best Republican speech I've ever heard.

Total poop grenade.

Shit everywhere.

Ugh.

[sixmile]

1. Sure sounds like it

I'm sure many in the DelMarVa region are already writing their resumes as we speak.

Quite a solid republic speech.

[BobbyBoring]

175. I'm

writing mine!

[Dappleganger]

2. Worse.

His words are now matching his actions more, which is quite frightening.

[RainDog]

5. at least those who support him no matter what

can know just what it is they support.

[Name removed]

47. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MichiganVote]

3. Yup.Bone to the left. Bone to the right. Bone to the center. Rinse. Repeat.

If I had a dollar for every ass in government who began a speech about factory jobs being gone I'd be sittin' pretty. God Almight they act like its yesterday-Its been 30 years and more!

Earth to politicians---WE KNOW THAT STUPID. We live it. You don't.

[bigwillq]

8. Great post.

[MichiganVote]

I may not agree with all/Obama. But that was a lamo beginning if ever there was one

[bigwillq]

22. Not watching.

At work. But I did like your post. 100 percent agree with what you said.

[proud patriot]

agreed , but this is why I liked it

maybe I'm crazy though

[Autumn]

214. Did you like the speech because it

is an excellent Republican speech or a total poop grenade? One of those reasons might be cause for worry.

[True_Blue]

113. X2!

[PVnRT]

157. I seem to remember JI Case laying off my dad in 1984 or so...

After that point, getting a "manufacturing" job around where I grew up was nearly impossible, outside of a couple of places.

[TomClash]

4. My take as well

I'm not surprised.

[Hello_Kitty]

6. Best speech by a Republican I've heard for a while. eom

[Pisces]

7. Are you crazy. He is doing great. What are you listening to??

[WilliamPitt]

10. He hasn't lit the podium on fire or thrown up or anything

but I wouldn't call this "doing great."

[freshwest]

97. Thanks Pitt.

I didn't listen. I read the prepared speech. Without the charisma, I only saw GOP talking points. I'm getting more bummed out all the time about the national scene, just working on the local politics, which is horrible enough.

Of course Obama inherited a nightmare. And he's doing things that show a progressive streak, just as the House did with a Democratic majority, no matter how thin or untrustworthy.

But too many stayed away from the polls because of GOP propaganda spreading despair and distrust with blatant lies. I do blame those who didn't vote for weakening Obama further.

They stayed home because the media hasn't allowed one iota of open debate, having kept all policy and social issues trapped between right and ultra right positions. As I've said before, we've lost our voice.

Obama is only working within the narrow confines permitted by the oligarchs, or if one prefers, the MIC, energy, banking and other corporate interests. It was interesting that he dared to commit to reducing the fossil fuel subsidies. If that's no longer dangerous to do, we've really made progess after all.

The thing that hurts the most is the ephemistic language employed and not being specific about how many cuts have already been to the vulnerable. A case in point would be the Arizona Medicaid cuts costing lives, but it was not brought up. Why not?

Does the White House and Congress approve of Arizona balancing its budget that way? How are Americans of little faith in the process of healthcare reform supposed to take that turn of events? How can we defend the process with these things going on?

Are we to assume that the federal government can't control what states are doing with the money from a program that is generally half-funded by D.C., and is supposed to follow federal guidelines? Why is it that D.C. has not addressed what is being done in that part of public policy, as well as other things?

Okay, I'm not digesting this speech very well. I didn't see any high points or anything but what a GOP POTUS would have said, save the fossil fuels remarks. So I'm not happy with it. Guess we'll have to settle for this level of 'civility and compromise' from D.C.

I support Obama because of the way he's conducted himself and the actions taken, for which he gets no credit at all. But I was really hoping for more tonight. Does anyone really think that what he said, which is supposedly a representation of where he's leading us, is going to change anything for the better in our or our children's lifetimes? Is this the 'third way,' form of governing?

I just don't know. Am I missing out on something big here, other than just the 'have faith' thing? Somebody help me with this one.

[sabrina 1]

128. Obama gets plenty of credit, from the right.

He doesn't need it or want it from the left.

Cheney endorsed his foreign policies last week.

George Will thinks he's doing great.

He's won over the Republicans and probably hopes to get a good portion of the Conservative vote which will make up for the loss of the liberal vote, which his people anticipate and don't care about. They do not like the 'left'. We were fooled. Well, sort of. I supported him over Hillary but wasn't thrilled with any of them. He scored better than her on a few issues, most of which he's flip-flopped on since then, like Mandated Ins. and Deficit Commissions eg.

So don't worry about him getting credit. And since he's not worried about the 'left' you don't have to worry about them either. In fact, it helps with those he really feels more comfortable with on the right and the DLC when the left slams him. And that's what he wants.

We'll see if his strategy keeps him in the WH. But they did say they would be spending a fortune to replace the voters they lost since the last election. Republican voters, I think he'll get them. They like him and his ideas.

[CrispyQ]

172. Don't forget, Ben Stein suggested Obama run on the repub ticket.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/01/23/sunday/main72...

snip...

Huckabee; Palin; Romney; Haley Barbour, who's my own favorite - all have their pros and cons, but none stands out as a clearly winning alternative to Barack Obama.

But wait a minute! Isn't there someone out there who is Obama's equal in oratory, charisma, and ability to draw votes who COULD run as a Republican?

Why, yes there is: Barack Obama, his own self.

YES!

Think about it: Since the election of 2010, he is clearly moving in the direction of the Republican Party. He has completely signed on to the Republican position on tax cuts and kicking the deficit can down the road.

Long since he signed onto the Bush position on the war in Afghanistan, he's now swearing he will do something about government spending, even if it angers his most basic constituency, the government employee unions.

[catzies]

226. Nice post, captures most of my sentiments as well. +1. n/t

[defendandprotect]

205. Consider all the things he didn't mention ....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Including the actual state of this capitalist economy which I'd say is till in

near-depression -- and/or a new stimulus or jobs programs!

And compare it with Socialist response --

http://socialistparty-usa.org/statements/sotu2011.html

[rug]

9. Horrible.

And we have sent a message from the Afghan border to the Arabian Peninsula to all parts of the globe: we will not relent, we will not waver, and we will defeat you.

[bdamomma]

20. we heard that before

[BlueDemKev]

25. What do you want him to say?

"Hey al-Queda, we're afraid of you and you have us on the run?" ???????

[WilliamPitt]

34. (facepalm)

[rug]

37. "We will stop killing you."

He can say that to the Afghani, Iraqi and Pakistani people.

[BlueDemKev]

51. Oh, brother

You think we should just sit back and allow the Taliban to re-take Afghanistan and let them harbor terrorists as they did in the late '90s and early '00s?

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sixmile]

67. Yes

That's exactly what we should do. Our borders should be secured. American 'interests' can hire their own security forces if they are pissing off the locals.
Afghan farmers did not fly planes into buildings on 9-11, nor will they.

[BlueDemKev]

155. Are you serious?

The Taliban HOUSED, NOURISHED, and PROTECTED al-Queda terrorists within the Afghan borders! We should allow them back into power??? As for securing our borders, yes, I'm all for that but that can only do so much because of the global economy we now have.

You guys call yourselves liberals? Do you want the Afghan people to once again be oppressed by the same people who forced women to cover themselves from head to toe whenever they left their homes (and publicly whipped them if their ankles were so much exposed?), denied women from working or being educated after they reached the age of eight, denied women from receiving medical care by a doctor unless a "male chaperon" was present, forced men to grow and maintain beards which were at least six (6) inches long, banned television, music, and destroyed any piece of architecture that worshipped any religion other than Islam (which included the dynamiting of the 1,500-year-old Bamiyan Buddha sculptured-statues) and administered PUBLIC EXECUTION for anyone who violated the Taliban's insane laws?

NO WAY IN HELL SHOULD WE ALLOW THE TALIBAN TO RETAKE AFGHANISTAN.

[H2O Man]

179. There is absolutely

no way that the US can keep them from having -- at very least -- a significant role in Afghanistan. In part, it is as simple as recognizing that they are of that land, and Uncle Sam is not. In part, it is because the US is not able to "stop" their beliefs from keeping rooted there. The Obama administration is already engaged in negotiating with them, to try to get those who are deemed "safer" to be involved in the governing of sections of Afghanistan. The longer the US is there, the stronger the more radical elements become.

[BlueDemKev]

304. Taliban's "Role"

Yes, the Taliban is "of Afghanistan", but they are a tiny minority of the Afghans who's fundamental interpretation of sharia law should NOT be imposed upon the entire country. I visited Kabul back in 1977, it was a beautiful cosmopolitan city where young women wore miniskirts Obviously, not too many Afgans embraced the Taliban philosophy of life!

The Taliban never could have regrouped as quickly as they did except for the fact that Bush took our focus off of Afghanistan in late 2002 and turned it towards Iraq. Everything I predicted that would happen has happened: Iraq was a disaster and turned out to be a useless war which did nothing but deplete our resources and has shattered America's resolve to fight the battle that SHOULD have been fought, which was focusing on Afghanistan which is the birthplace of al-Queda.

[SammyWinstonJack]

181. -1

[H2O Man]

201. delete

my error

[PassingFair]

202. We funded and created the Taliban, you know. We used to call them Freedom Fighters.

"The Taliban are one of the mujahideen ("holy warriors" or "freedom fighters") groups that formed during the war against the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan (1979-89). After the withdrawal of Soviet forces, the Soviet-backed government lost ground to the mujahideen. In 1992, Kabul was captured and an alliance of mujahideen set up a new government with Burhanuddin Rabbani as interim president. However, the various factions were unable to cooperate and fell to fighting each other. Afghanistan was reduced to a collection of territories held by competing warlords.

Groups of taliban ("religious students") were loosely organized on a regional basis during the occupation and civil war. Although they represented a potentially huge force, they didn't emerge as a united entity until the taliban of Kandaharmade their move in 1994. In late 1994, a group of well-trained taliban were chosen by Pakistan to protect a convoy trying to open a trade route from Pakistan to Central Asia. They proved an able force, fighting off rival mujahideen and warlords. The taliban then went on to take the city of Kandahar, beginning a surprising advance that ended with their capture of Kabul in September 1996."

Read more: The Taliban — Infoplease.com http://www.infoplease.com/spot/taliban.html#ixzz1CAig1a...


BLOW BACK.

[Enthusiast]

Karma. nt

[BlueDemKev]

306. We supported the opposition

Yes, I remember when liberals were scoffed at back in the 1980's were warning that the rebels fighting against the USSR could very well turn that country into another Iran. However, you have to remember that the rebels who fought against the Soviets included many more groups than just the Taliban: the Northern Alliance, for example. America's focus in the '80s was simply stopping the Soviets without thought to anything else--very irresponsible, IMO. After the Soviets left Afghanistan in the late '80s, these rebel factions began fighting with each other (as different Muslim groups often do), until 1996 when the Taliban gained control of 90% of the country.

[abelenkpe]

239. YOu need to stop smoking

whatever it is that you are smoking. The Taliban control most of Afghanistan. All our money and weapons and we barely control the capitol. Afghanistan is a losing proposition.

[Enthusiast]

252. It has not been cost effective.

Many Afghanis don't even know they live in a nation called Afghanistan. There are many other nations that are equally repressive and cruel. We can't police the world. Our priorities must begin at home.

There is also strong justification for invading Mexico since it is right on our border and also represents a threat. Are we going to invade Mexico? How about Venezuela? Columbia? The list could go on forever.

Get out of Afghanistan. NOW!

[northoftheborder]

262. I do not see how we can force or persuade these people to change their whole culture.

[rug]

264. "You guys"?

You know, this war wasn't started to defend anyone's right to shave.

Nice talking point though. Go back and get a better one.

[juajen]

280. There are women all over the world being abused horribly. Do you

think we can police the world? What American corporatists want is access to oil and the famous natural gas pipeline that goes right through that country. They don't care a fig about the women in Afghanistan, more's the pity.

Check out TAPI (this is from Wikipedia and I am not sure how much I have erred in posting, and everybody knows I am technologically challenged. So, let me know if I should amend this post.

TAPI is

The Trans-Afghanistan Pipeline (TAP or TAPI) is a proposed natural gas pipeline being developed by the Asian Development Bank.<1><2><3> The pipeline will transport Caspian Sea natural gas from Turkmenistan through Afghanistan into Pakistan and then to India. The abbreviation comes from the first letters of those countries. Proponents of the project see it as a modern continuation of the Silk Road. The Afghan government is expected to receive 8% of the project's revenue.
Contents


* 1 History
* 2 Route
* 3 Technical features
* 4 See also
* 5 References

History

The original project started in March 1995 when an inaugural memorandum of understanding between the governments of Turkmenistan and Pakistan for a pipeline project was signed. In August 1996, the Central Asia Gas Pipeline, Ltd. (CentGas) consortium for construction of a pipeline, led by U.S. oil company Unocal, was formed. On 27 October 1997, CentGas was incorporated in formal signing ceremonies in Ashgabat, Turkmenistan by several international oil companies along with the Government of Turkmenistan. In January 1998, the Taliban, selecting CentGas over Argentinian competitor Bridas Corporation, signed an agreement that allowed the proposed project to proceed. In June 1998, Russian Gazprom relinquished its 10% stake in the project. Unocal withdrew from the consortium on 8 December 1998.

The new deal on the pipeline was signed on 27 December 2002 by the leaders of Turkmenistan, Afghanistan and Pakistan.<4> In 2005, the Asian Development Bank submitted the final version of a feasibility study designed by British company Penspen. ‘Since the US-led offensive that ousted the Taliban from power,’ reported Forbes in 2005, "the project has been revived and drawn strong US support" as it would allow the Central Asian republics to export energy to Western markets "without relying on Russian routes". Then-US Ambassador to Turkmenistan Ann Jacobsen noted that: "We are seriously looking at the project, and it is quite possible that American companies will join it."<5> Due to increasing instability, the project has essentially stalled; construction of the Turkmen part was supposed to start in 2006, but the overall feasibility is questionable since the southern part of the Afghan section runs through territory which continues to be under de facto Taliban control.<5>

On 24 April 2008, Pakistan, India and Afghanistan signed a framework agreement to buy natural gas from Turkmenistan.<6> The intergovernmental agreement on the pipeline was signed on 11 December 2010 in Ashgabat.<6>
Route

The 1,680 kilometres (1,040 mi) pipeline will run from the Dauletabad gas field to Afghanistan. From there TAPI will be constructed alongside the highway running from Herat to Kandahar, and then via Quetta and Multan in Pakistan. The final destination of the pipeline will be the Indian town of Fazilka, near the border between Pakistan and India.<7>
Technical features

The pipeline will be 1,420 millimetres (56 in) in diameter with a working pressure of 100 standard atmospheres (10,000 kPa).<7> The initial capacity will be 27 billion cubic meters (bcm) of natural gas per year of which 2 bcm will be provided to Afghanistan and 12.5 bcm to each Pakistan and India. Later the capacity will increase to 33 bcm.<8> Six compressor stations would be constructed along the pipeline.<7> The pipeline was expected to be operational by 2014.<9>

The cost of the pipeline is estimated cost at US$7.6 billion.<6> The project is to be financed by the Asian Development Bank.<10>

[sad sally]

299. Of course not, we should just plan on staying there FOREVER!

I'm sure if we kill enough innocent people, along with the bad ones, and destroy enough of their homes, leave enough toxic weaponary buried to contaminate water, soil and air for hundreds of years, chase all the Al-Queda into their neighboring countries and bomb them so there are no safe places to run to, I'm sure if we do all that we will be successful heroes in the Afghan's eyes, and besides that we're the invader in power. It's the United States duty to rid Afghanistan of all our sworn enemies no matter how long it takes or how much it costs. In fact, let's spend all American revenue on war@!

[pscot]

91. Who gives a rats ass

what Afghanis do to one another? You want to improve their morals? Become a missionary.

[BlueDemKev]

156. I won't even dignify that with a response

[H2O Man]

180. But you did.

[femrap]

186. Aren't many

of our PTB making big $$$$ off the opium trade? Isn't that why we're there? To make $$$ for the Rich? Isn't that what all wars are about....keeping the Defense Industry going? And now OPIUM.

[Kermitt Gribble]

189. Don't forget the trillion dollar mineral deposits... n/t

[Enthusiast]

254. Plus fucking one! nt

[H2O Man]

177. There are, of course,

options other than these two.

[Lorien]

52. Defeat who? For WHAT???

Murder for profit. FUCK IT ALL!

[truth2power]

139. Yes, that was only one of the statements that had me going, Whaaa??

These are wars for resources.

[Danger Mouse]

11. You're pretty much correct.

[notesdev]

12. He musta told the speechwriter

"give me two hours of stuff that polls over 50%, consistency optional"

[kath]

57. BWAH!

That bad, eh?
Sadly, I can't bear to watch or listen to him any more.

[notesdev]

79. of the 80 minutes of the speech

he spent a good thirty of them sounding like he just came from a Sarah Palin book signing.

[Dawgs]

153. +1.

[progressoid]

13. They are playing "Our Gang" on Turner Classic Movies!

[sixmile]

18. I'm there!

Thanks! Caught a marathon last month. Loved it!

[JVS]

137. I can't believe Buckwheat and Spanky fought for the Confederacy!

Traitors!

[NYC Liberal]

14. "excellent Republican speech"---you should inform the Republicans

I guarantee they don't like what he's saying.

Maybe Obama should have had backup dancers and strobe lights to make it more "exciting."

[comsymp]

24. That's to be expected -

They didn't like the Republican healthcare plan he supported, either.

[NYC Liberal]

32. Yes it is to be expected, because Obama is a liberal Democrat.

Why would they support him?

[comsymp]

43. Obama's a LIBERAL!!!???

Funny story:

When I signed up here waaaay back in '01, I didn't have a screen name elsewhere that I particularly liked. I was lurking on another board when some asshat referred to Clinton as a LibDem. I thought, "if Clinton's liberal, then what the hell does that make me?"


plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

[NYC Liberal]

61. ZOMG someone isn't AS liberal as you are, therefore

they are a right-wing corporofascisnazithingamajig.

[comsymp]

70. Yeah, that's what I'm saying

Hey, I can do smilies, too!

There's virtually zero daylight between Obama's positions and that of his center-right DLC predecessors, including the Clintons. He's what was formerly referred to as a DLC Dem.

If you think he's a liberal, I'd LOVE to hear your idea of a centrist... please???

[NYC Liberal]

74. I guess the 88% of liberal Democrats who

think he's doing a good job aren't "really" liberals.

[Lorien]

78. Oh stop it. No one believes that made up piece of Bullshit

works on Fox, but nowhere in the real world.

[MissDeeds]

101. + 1 zillion

[BzaDem]

274. Before you embarass yourself further, you should go to Gallup.com. n/t

[comsymp]

82. I haven't seen those numbers - citation pls?

Last poll breakdown I saw had him at about 80% among all Dems.

[NYC Liberal]

87. Here:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/124922/Presidential-Job-Appr...

Just scroll down a little bit and you'll see it.

[comsymp]

106. Thank you - hadn't seen that poll

Gotta say I'm stumped. Obvious snarky response is "because they're fucking idiots?"
Otherwise, I honestly can't say, other than he also enjoys 85% among Moderate Dems and 69% with Blue Dogs (pretty close to Clinton's at a similar point in his presidency). Maybe it's a partisan thing or, as I've read ad nauseum, "the alternative is Palin."

I *do* know that he seems to stay on the CPC's shit list, as well as those of many / most commonly recognized liberal groups, pundits and voters for reasons like these:


Tax cut deal
Gitmo
"Obamacare" - individual mandate with no public option, etc.
State Secrets shield
Targeted killings
Indefinite detention
Going after Assange
Military tribunals
Staff picks
Wall St non-reform
His piss-poor "negotiating" style
Backing Blue Dogs and others over progressive/lib challengers (Lincoln, Lieberman, etc.)
Afghanistan - escalation
Iraq - basically co-opting Hillary's plan
Handling of BP
Warrantless wiretaps
Extraordinary rendition
Foot dragging on LGBTQ issues
Telecom immunity
Open carry in Nat'l parks


I could probably go on and have definitely missed some biggies but I have a lousy memory and a full load of vicodin - bottom line is, this guy is NOT a liberal. He served in the Senate as a centrist, ran in '08 as a centrist and governs as a centrist. Quack quack.

[Enthusiast]

257. All this after Republican talking heads

characterized him as "the most liberal member of the Senate." Subterfuge.

[tavalon]

Thanks

And yeah, that's what the poll says.

[tomp]

145. that's what i'm saying.

liberals: i'm for nice things for everybody until somebody says the poor, working and middle class can't have them, then i roll over and "support the president".

[tavalon]

249. Don't thow numbers like that out without a credible citation

[NYC Liberal]

288. .

http://www.gallup.com/poll/124922/Presidential-Job-Appr...

[Name removed]

76. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

131. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[freshwest]

103. Still better than Palin!!!

[comsymp]

107. So was Nixon

Personally, I'd like to be able to hold my President to a higher standard than that, wouldn't you?

[freshwest]

126. Desperation makes strange bedfellows.

[SammyWinstonJack]

183. Well that certainly is a ringing endorsement of the Obama Administration.

[tavalon]

248. kudos for an amusing word, but demerits for reading comprehension

[progressoid]

50. Haaaahahaha.

Oh, sorry.

You're serious.

[NYC Liberal]

65. 110% serious.

That's why the OVERWHELMING majority of liberals in this country support Obama.

[paulk]

112. support him compared to what?

the Republican alternative?

I mean, really.

I'd answer "yes" to that and I pretty much think that so far he's been a failure as President.

As a Democrat, anyway, and certainly as a liberal.

[NYC Liberal]

125. Support him, as in, think he's doing a good job.

Supporting someone isn't a relative issue. You support them or you don't. You think they're generally doing a good job or you don't.

The fact is that 88% of liberal Democrats think Obama is doing a good job. That's fine if you're in the other 12%, but yes there are many progressives and liberals who like the job he is doing and certainly do not think "he's been a failure as President."

[paulk]

154. of course supporting someone is a "relative" issue

especially in politics.

As voters we are constantly forced to make choices between alternatives, many of them bad or worse. You can't speak for the people that took this poll or their reasons for "supporting" the President.

[NYC Liberal]

165. No, support as in "think he is doing a good job." That's what an 'approval rating' is.

It's not relative.

Look, the fact is the huge majorities of liberals in this country think he's doing a good job. You may not but that doesn't mean that everyone shares that view.

[paulk]

188. thanks for clearing that up

next time I'm polled I'll be sure to register my disapproval of Obama's job performance.

[NYC Liberal]

193. Approval ratings are a yes or no question.

There are polls about specific issues. "Approval rating" is about whether one generally approves or generally disapproves of the person in question. "Do you generally approve or disapprove of President Obama's job performance?" not "Is President Obama doing a better or worse job than Person X?" or "Do you like President Obama more or less than Person X"

[Ignis]

190. "Supporting someone isn't a relative issue. You support them or you don't."

Gee, that sort of absolutism sounds awfully familiar.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpPABLW6F_A

[NYC Liberal]

192. Support of someone is not relative.

When one is asked whether they approve or disapprove of Obama's job performance, the answer is not relative to what one thinks of anyone else.

[Ignis]

195. For you, perhaps. For others, it's quite common to "grade on the curve."

Just because you create a false dichotomy doesn't mean that others are forced to play along.

[NYC Liberal]

197. I just happen to agree with the 88% of Liberal Democrats

who think President Obama is doing a good job. Oh well.

[Ignis]

234. Keep weilding that poll number like a crucifix.

I'm sure it will convince someone to ignore the negative and focus solely upon the positive. The rest of us will keep our eyes open.

If nothing else, you can hope that this approach goes better than your attempt to redefine "support" above.

[NYC Liberal]

238. The trouble is, I see positive and negative.

Some here seem to only see negative. With anything.

[Ignis]

301. So we've gone from "with us or against us" to "some people say," eh?

Why not throw in a "love it or leave it" for the trifecta?

[whathehell]

161. "Obama is a liberal democrat"?...No, Franklin Roosevlet was a liberal democrat...

to a lesser extent, John F. Kennedy was a liberal democrat.

When you are able to find similarities between them and Obama, let me know.

[PVnRT]

158. Or the Republican cap-and-trade plan

[sixmile]

35. Are we watching the same speech?

It's full of republic talking points:

Smaller government
Less spending
Rewriting the tax code
Tort reform
Big business pandering
etc.

[freshwest]

99. Cutting the oil subsidies must have made them sweat, LOL!

[kath]

What a humongous frickin' disappointment this man is.

sigh.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[emilyg]

69. He certainly is.

[Greybnk48]

15. I feel like I'm on a sinking ship!

Horrible. I'm very, very sad.

[OhioChick]

16. Agreed...Sigh n/t

[madrchsod]

17. remember liberal-east coast republicans?

i wonder if chuck percy can still understand what`s going on in the world because obama is walking in chuck`s shoes.

i know that paul simon would be wondering what happened to his pupil

no will you ain`t addled.

[BlueDemKev]

31. No, they died before I was born

I'm sure they'd be ostracized from today's Republican Party, though.

[paulk]

296. today they'd be Democrats

[BlueDemKev]

302. Yeah, especially Abe Lincoln

[tabatha]

19. So, why does Boner not like it.

I think he is doing well.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tabatha]

38. Well, why did Howard Dean like it?

[freshwest]

100. If Dean and Cenk find good things there, I'll read it again.

[Autumn]

23. It is certainly not inspiring.

Of course I have had 4 shots of Canadian Mist. So it's back to FarmVille and DU for me.

[CLANG]

272. Wow - I just had 4 shots of Crown Royal!

And so here I sit at DU.... urp!

[Thrill]

26. Talking about investing in Education, Infrastructure, and Green Initiatives?

Yeah Republican. YAWN

[WilliamPitt]

29. Those were the belly-rubs

Took up 20% of the speech.

The rest?

...

[Carni]

247. Other 80%

Pissy looks and his usual lectures.

Yep! This was a great GOP speech!

[obxhead]

42. Yup.

Bush did it in every SOTU he gave as well. Go ahead, read them, it's all there in his as well.

[Lorien]

60. And have we ever seen action on any of those?

aside from the despicable privatization to for profit charter schools.

[freshwest]

104. As far as the alternative energy, I've seen a lot and been posting on it all year elsewhere.

Obama has been doing much of what Carter would have done in his second term if he'd not been October Surprised out of office. Just one example that is symbolic of a different direction, was the re-installation of solar panels at the White House, which Carter did. The first thing that Reagan did was to take them down.

Another thing was that Michelle Obama started an organic garden on the White House lawn, for which she was slammed by the chemical industry immediately. Her healthy food initiative went through which helps millions of children.

All of these things that Barack and Michelle have done got little media attention, but plenty on the blogosphere and they put up with the most insane attacks for them.

Obama has repeatedly helped alternative energy in every way he could despite the obstacles involved. He's not the pocket of big oil and also called for this change of energy policy in order to get us out of debt and out of the war games. People just seem to think that his being put in office was going to make all these deadly and entrenched enemies to what liberals want disappear.

It's not that easy. He's a liberal who is treading very softly. The oligarchs aren't kidding. I'd hate to be him, it's a thankless job.

The despicable privatization of services and charter schools are local battles that have to fought out on the district level. And you're right, it's despicable and worse than that, deadly.

[Fearless]

237. +1

[WillyT]

27. You're Insane...

But then so am I.

Goes to show you how far Right we've moved.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kurovski]

30. Shallow and lackluster.

Howard Dean said it was going to be a good speech. I'm gonna have to remove that little liar as my avatar.

[TheKentuckian]

36. Embracing and frenching the status quo

[whatchamacallit]

39. We've been played

HUGE!

[radiclib]

40. Thanks for reminding me why I'm not watching it

Stumbled across a few seconds of audio feed by mistake...heard something about how we can't keep throwing money at education or some such swill...tuned out immediately.

Thanks for watching, Will, so the rest of us don't have to.

[MadBadger]

41. Perfect Speech for the American Republic. Not a great speech for the left or the right.

[Kurovski]

48. ...nor for the unemployed.

this is a bit surreal.

[Davis_X_Machina]

62. I take great comfort...

...from the fact that the Republic, while not flourishing as it might, is on an even enough keel that going through the motions is once again the appropriate rhetorical stance.

Save the great speeches for when the asteroid is incoming...

[nadinbrzezinski]

44. Yep, went "center" which means right in the US

[Safetykitten]

45. Like caviar.

[MuseRider]

46. Watching tennis.

Much much more pleasant and I am less drunk than I would be if I was listening to Obama.

It is not like he has shown himself interested in liberal ideas.

I lost interest in anything he has to say. Left or right you can be certain it is not what he will do. It could end up much worse.

[pa28]

49. I expected this speech to be a coming out party for a born again supply sider.

Entitlements were left on the table, the door for a more regressive tax structure is open (that's the bad) but maybe my expectations were so low I was just pleasantly surprised with the milquetoast boilerpolate.

[madamesilverspurs]

53. Hmmmm...

you must be watching a different speech than the one I'm watching.


=

[Kurovski]

54. Attention DU:

"Derp" is no longer tolerated.

[WilliamPitt]

59. Since when?

Derp derp derp derp derp derp!!!!

Dammit.

[Kurovski]

63. Oh yeah?

Then why didn't they like it?!

[Generic Brad]

55. Just what exactly should he be saying?

Sure see a lot of criticism here but no suggestions. If any of you think you can do better - run for his office.

[Davis_X_Machina]

66. Property is theft.

Dawn Johnsen for A.G. Les aristos a la lanterne. Expropriate the expropriators.

Stuff like that.

[freshwest]

105. Agreed. Ah, if only we ruled the world. But they won't listen to us...

[Luminous Animal]

83. Political office is not the end all to political engagement.

[tularetom]

56. Gimme a break - at least he didn't mention cutting Social Security

Of course that's because he was warned he'd be crucified if he did.

He's no liberal. I don't think he has any ideology. He's a political chameleon, like Clinton.

[paulk]

227. at least clinton had his roots in sixties liberalism, imho

I'm not sure what Obama's roots are, or if he even has any

[HarveyDarkey]

64. Talked for well over an hour

didn't say a damn thing

[decidedlyso]

212. One Hour one minute. But, yes, you are right.

[soleft]

68. That thing about Bush tax cuts, wow, so Bushlike

[upi402]

71. I didn't support him after about 2 months

so he has yet to disappoint with his 80's republicanism

[Safetykitten]

72. Nelson Rockefeller is smiling in republican heaven

[dflprincess]

295. Nelson Rockefeller was further left

[Liquorice]

73. I didn't like it. It was boring, pandering and I didn't like the way he

sounded like he was almost pleading at times.

[Fire1]

75. Great speech, imo. Til he got to the 'education' part. n/t

[Ikonoklast]

77. And those that never liked him...still don't like him.

Quelle surpris.

[Lorien]

81. And those who are left of center still don't like him

because he's moved to the hard right and no longer represents anything that the Democratic party traditionally stands for.

[Ikonoklast]

84. The Democratic Party would disagree with you.

And those on the far Left haven't liked a Democrat in decades, so...nothing new there.

[donheld]

117. The far Left hasn't seen a true Democrat in decades

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

159. Because he's an Independent Senator.

Kept as a museum piece.

[Ochsfan]

216. DING! DING! DING!

We have a winner!!

[liberation]

290. Wow... ain't that a bitch.

Ever since the Dems got that big tent, all those conservatives looking for a new brand think they own the place now.

[Codeine]

90. I'm left of center and like him just fine.

But I'm a bit more realistic about the limits of our political system than some. No president will ever be as left/liberal as I am, because we're just not that sort of country.

[DianeK]

166. thanks codeine..

my sentiments exactly..finally some common sense!

[Kurovski]

86. I Caucused for him, I stood up and spoke for him, I went to another city

to see that he would be our nominee.

Your comments express a very, no extremely--narrow view of how government participation actually works. This isn't the high school prom. My nominee is not living up to his potential. I did a lot to get him hired, i expect him to deliver at least halfway to his potential.

I'm furious with your divisive nonsense.

[Ikonoklast]

88. If it doesn't apply to you, why are you furious?

There are others in this thread, and on this site, that never supported Democrats, let alone this president.

They didn't listen to the candidate when he told them where he stood on policy.

I guess you didn't, either.



Too many people thought they were voting for a fiery revolutionary, projecting their desires onto the candidate, and when he actually turned out to be the person he said he was, they only ended up fooling themselves.

[Kurovski]

98. DON'T GUESS. It will get you into trouble.

Do you think that I have been paying no ATTENTION what so fucking ever? Do you think no one else is?

Jesus, Just on the healthcare reform bill alone. For you , it appears to be about "like" or "not like" just like high school.



But I have already engaged with you more than you deserve.

[Ikonoklast]

102. Condescension noted.

Emotion based response, also noted.

If that's all you have, then...

Have a nice evening.

[Enthusiast]

259. I supported the President

with donations and my vote. I didn't know he was a Republican. I am very disappointed in him.

[Odin2005]

119. I was a loyal Obama supporter until the giveaway to the Health Insurance Industry.

[jonnyblitz]

143. and with good fucking reason. nt

[Smashcut]

194. And those that never liked him...have been proven right

Voila.

[druidity33]

277. I liked him...

I was excited about his election and all the things he said he stood for. I have been disappointed. I'm not sure i'd say i like him anymore... i certainly don't trust him now.

[Leopolds Ghost]

80. WilliamPitt, for you to say this, it is indeed distressing to worry about

You've always been a soldier in the trenches for the party, so if even you feel this way, it is indeed worrisome.

Let's look on the other side: he's sticking to a liberal agenda on a few issues such as drilling, gays in the military, high speed rail, etc.

I'd call him a solid liberal Republican of the McKinley-Wilson or Nixon era (yeah, Wilson was a Democrat but he adopted the then-Republican platform of business progressivism).

[Catherina]

85. Couldn't watch it. Watched the first 10 minutes then switched to "Hoarders"

Flipped back to the SOTU every ~10 minutes just in case. Nope, back to Hoarders. It was that bad.

[whatchamacallit]

92. Lol!

Yep.

[Catherina]

94. Damn sure sucks.

2 years ago, if you'd told me I'd be having this reaction, I would have called you a liar.

[whatchamacallit]

231. Yeah...

me too.

[theophilus]

89. No. n/t

[unkachuck]

93. "Best Republican speech I've ever heard."

....you are correct, Sir....the best pro-business pep-rally speech I've heard in a long time....he seemed to ignore or apologized for anything Democratic....

....great countries do great things....we used to do great things like build Panama Canals, build Hoover Dams or fly Saturn rockets to the moon....what have we done lately? What are we capable of doing? Not much, do to thirty years of Republican fiscal policy and corruption....

....nothing in his speech about that....

[Raine]

95. yup best republican speech ever

certainly not Democratic one.

[Name removed]

96. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WilliamPitt]

108. Sneaking in at the end.

Your style to a T.

Cheers.

[Rex]

109. Did Ben Stein get a copy of his speech!?

I'm getting goosepimples!

[jillan]

110. Yes Bachmann's speech was really that bad.

[True_Blue]

111. I guess he didn't have time to fit in America's high unemployment rate.

As long as Wall Street and the banksters are doing good, that's all that really matters.

[Kurovski]

207. And the housing crisis is over?

It would be nice if he said he planned on getting the banks to get their shit together on the "making home affordable" program.

[sad sally]

300. Ignored mentioning the 3,250 homes that banks padlock each and every day

putting families - men, women and children - on the street. Homeless people, poor people, unemployed people who have no voice - no mention of them...just the need to reduce or end corporate tax. Did he forget how few currently pay any taxes?

[merh]

114. And it won't be good enough for the GOP or the Tea Party

they will still bitch and whine and call him a socialist and a communist and a liberal.


Nothing he says can please them, he should know that if he just studied Clinton's 2 terms and his years of centrist ass kissing.


Either lead or get the fuck out of the way, don't lay in the middle and think you are doing anyone any good.


Got news for you Mr. President, the voting majority is not republican or conservative - they are just the loudest and own the most bull horns and microphones.

[suffragette]

120. + 1,000

Great points, merh.

[Imagevision]

115. No-No! Obama will only beat the GOP by beating them at their own game - be patient!

[helderheid]

116. I love you Will

but I think you're full of shit tonight. I do love you and am willing to be wrong.

[JTFrog]

219. +1 n/t

[Odin2005]

118. I was appalled. Obama is a Puke in Dem clothing.

[woo me with science]

121. It was worse.

It was fucking depressing. It felt like a dirge.

There was absolutely nothing in that speech to signal any serious action on, or even recognition of, what is happening to our country and to our middle class. We have been transformed from respected citizens into work horses and cash machines for corporate and governmental thieves. We are being systematically bled dry and stripped of our economic protections, and nobody in power with the possible exception of Bernie Sanders seems to be noticing or taking it seriously. Our President either does not get it, or he does not give a damn.

It was fucking surreal. It was a wholesale denial of reality. It was another steaming plateful of the very same shit that is killing us.

[Raine]

129. You're completely on point

I have a friend out of work, there was absolutely nothing in that speech that was of any comfort to him.

[Bonobo]

130. Well said. The thing about the people that "don't get it" is...

They don't even "get" that they aren't "getting it", so there is no talking to them or explaining it to them.

It is like trying to describe water to fish.

[WilliamPitt]

133. Like a frog trying to explain to a tadpole

what it's like on dry ground.

[deutsey]

141. Good point.

I'm finally figuring out that the frame of reference a lot of people "on our side" have in understanding politics in this country is determined by the people "not on our side."

They see the issues within the boundaries of a center-right vs. far right worldview promoted through mainstream television. Have no clue there's a viable alternative from the center-left because it's either been demonized or completely ignored by the "debate" on TV.

So when Obama gets up and mouths a bunch of center-right platitudes, he seems to be the alternative to the far right that we're looking for. He's still reinforcing the agenda of the wealthy, corporate, and even rightwing power structure in this country, however.

[Bonobo]

151. Yes, that is it PRECISELY.

Frames of reference have slipped so far to the right that the picture ain't even hanging on the wall no more.

[deutsey]

138. Excellent. You summed up exactly how I feel.

[myrna minx]

167. Exactly. n/t

[Smashcut]

200. +1000

[PassingFair]

258. I had to flick it off.

To say it was depressing is putting it lightly.

How can his administration HELP, if they
don't acknowledge the breadth of the problem?

[JeffR]

122. You've got to be fucking kidding. n/t

[Fuddnik]

123. K&R

[cherokeeprogressive]

124. I'm going with you on this one Will.

I didn't watch it live, and just got finished watching it on my TIVO. I had to fight the urge to fast forward about a hundred times.

[Oilwellian]

127. Thanks for keeping it real, Will

I think we're in big trouble.

[Mimosa]

132. YES.

Who else thinks Bush 43 could have delivered this same speech, except for a couple of flubs and stutters?

[swilton]

265. +1

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/davidswanson/...

[EFerrari]

134. He wants me to innovate my way to a job. To be creative.

It was like a free EST seminar.

[woo me with science]

149. Hammocks like Social Security totally destroy creativity. nt

[EFerrari]

223. I'm going to have to "intend" a way to live between this no job

and the raised retirement age. lol

[Kurovski]

229. People on unemployment just use it for drugs.

Take it away and think of all the money we'd save in a year!

Enough to run the Senate barber shop!

[myrna minx]

168. .

You owe me a monitor.

[Kurovski]

209. Hey! I "create" parking spaces all the time.

No, but seriously, if Obama had kept just TWO of the promises he made, I might not be facing personal disaster.

[EFerrari]

222. I hit the trifecta, at a minimum. War on teaching, faked foreclosures,

now Social Security under the axe. Of course, no health care isn't helping and no jobs program, ditto.

I feel picked on, myself.

[Kurovski]

228. No cost of living raise in three years for ss recipients.

So it's good that the price of food and gas are dropping ever-so precipitously!

But hey, now i can join the army and make-out with a private at the PX, right?

[myrna minx]

245. Perhaps I'll innovate myself to this foolishly unattended idling car.

I too am horribly disappointed in this whole thing. I'm so sorry that you're going through such a difficult time. I'm always here for you sweet cheeks.

[Kurovski]

251. !

In court you can say: "Your honor, our President told us we should look ahead, not behind when it comes to crime. So let us do our patriotic duty and get me the fuck out of here."

[EFerrari]

221. Sorry!

[HughBeaumont]

215. They don't seem to get that Joe Sixpack ain't-a gonna invent his way outta this mess.

2011 isn't 1981. Pretty much all invention for anything worthwhile or technologically advanced is done in corporate-funded labs nowadays.

[EFerrari]

220. Werner Erhard used to say things like "create the chair!"

As in, if you imagine it, it will appear. Maybe the president expects us to all become magicians.

[lib2DaBone]

135. Watching Speech.. the Politicians are very comfortable...

Good salary.. free health care... free haircuts... free limo service.. free gym and health club for members of CONgress... fully vested retirement for life after serving only one term.

As far as Washinton knows.. there is no recession... life is good for them.

Mr. Obama makes 'real good speeches'. Whatever you want to hear.. he will tell you.

[woo me with science]

150. This is key.

They don't get it. They are completely insulated from the growing terror and hopelessness of the middle class. They don't see or care what is happening.

[Hydra]

208. What middle class?

I'm seeing a lot of new faces here on the bottom, but as you say, the terror and hopelessness is setting in.

People dared to hope there would be a way forward. I told them that once they make it down here, they don't exist to the people in power.

[xchrom]

136. recommend

[bonnieS]

140. Yes, it is

He is not going to "slash" Social Security, just cut it to ribbons, Medicare is a drain on the budget and has to be looked at. Everything so generalized it means nothing and everything (Larry O'Donnell said this, and was SO right).

[Swamp Rat]

142. That bad, huh?

I didn't see it because these days I mostly watch cartoons or the weather report on tv in order to remain sane.

Maybe what 'some say' is actually true, that Obama is playing Multi-Dimensional Star Trek Chess and is going to reveal all at any moment as he checkmates the bad guys...

[tomp]

144. you're getting warm. nt

[BigBearJohn]

146. Excuse me. Can I see your ID? I can't believe you wrote this and I AGREE WITH YOU!!!!

thanks.

[mmonk]

147. Poop grenade.

Excellent coice of words. I don't know whether to laugh or throw up.

[bonnieS]

148. I also

thought that it was charmingly deceptive the way he talked about hiring 100,000 teachers--these are, of course the youngsters they pay to temporarily go into teaching while they fire union teachers. Offering another corporate tax cut while freezing needed programs was another nice touch,.

[blindpig]

152. Broken clock syndrome. n/t

[mistertrickster]

160. Ben Stein says O should run as a Republican in 2012. Good idea. Drop the facade. nt

[lonestarnot]

162. Yes as bad as you think.

[closeupready]

163. What got me was the manner in which he seemed to hold his own party at arm's length.

On a couple occasions, he said, "I will work with Democrats and Republicans to do this..."

Yo. You LEAD the Democrats, you don't 'work with' Democrats in the same way you 'work with' Republicans. You say this, "I (or we) will work with Republicans to solve this problem."

[Hydra]

210. Maybe he really DOES believe he's "above" having a party

If that's the case, why did he ask us to elect him as a Democrat?

[closeupready]

217. I don't know. These things are telling. You gotta wonder why WH speechwriters don't

cue him in on these kinds of things - assuming he has people who review his speeches, and proofread and such. And even if my perception here is wrong, what sloppiness, huh?

[HughBeaumont]

164. And from now on . . . this is as good as it's going to get.

That's what makes me even sadder - that it may possibly be between around 50 years from now and NEVER that we'll get a progressive in the White House.

It all boils down to one general problem - the glacial but ubiquitous corporate takeover of government, resulting in a government that's not even in charge of itself or it's constituents. With that takeover comes, of course, a shift further and further to the right for both "parties", resulting in not much of a choice at all for the middle/working/poor classes.

[The Backlash Cometh]

169. He is following in Clinton's footsteps.

If you remember, things started to go downhill in his second term because nobody was watching the henhouse.

[Name removed]

170. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Fire1]

171. It could be a helluva lot worse! n/t

[robcon]

173. " Please tell me I'm just an insane person."

OK, you're an insane person.

Seriously, it was a great speech - just what we needed.

[Eric J in MN]

174. For opponents of nuclear energy, the energy policy is bad news. NT

NT

[truebrit71]

176. Yup it was bad. freeze spending, lower corporate tax rates, simplify the tax code..

...protect the borders...what was left for Paul Ryan to rebut? The colour of Obama's tie?

Oh, and apparently TSA gropings are just comedic one-liners in the Obama WH...

[slackmaster]

178. He wants to grow the economy by stimulating appropriate innovation and improving education

OH, THE HORRORS!

[Kurovski]

233. innovation in greener energy like Fracking for natural gas?

Using coal?

Look around for a discussion about the education improvements.

[slackmaster]

253. He listed several forms of non-petroleum energy and said we needed to do them all

I think he's right.

[phantom power]

182. Exactly what I thought to myself. "This is a GOP speech."

[Poll_Blind]

184. Most of us here have either gone though this realization or will soon. n/t

PB

[Name removed]

185. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProSense]

187. "but he has been kissing GOP ass from beginning to end" That's weird

Does this make me a fan of "kissing GOP ass"?


Reaction to the speech here, here, here and here.

[bvar22]

191. After campaign 2008, I auto-edit lofty rhetoric and vague promises.

Summary of 2011 SOTU after auto-edits:
Freeze Spending, cut Corporate taxes.


In policy statements, this was a Republican Victory.

[Smashcut]

196. This country is going down

It can no longer solve its own problems, and has finally invented the ultimate conman to dazzle the believers with his siren song while the greed-heads scrape the last few coins out of the public coffers and leave people destitute, angry and ready to revolt.

[onethatcares]

230. was it Jackson Browne that wrote,

they sell us our reps and our presidents
the way they sell us our homes and our cars

??????????????????????

That's how I'm feeling, like we get the focus group powerpoint movie.

[deaniac21]

198. Word is out that he will make up for it May 12.

[kimmerspixelated]

256. How?

exactly...???

[PassingFair]

199. I stopped listening half way through. Cognitive Dissonance made my head spin.

Our jobs and our homes are going
down the drain.

America needs a reality check, not
more smoke and mirrors while they
pick the last bits of meat off of
our carcasses.

[defendandprotect]

204. +1

[defendandprotect]

203. Yes -- and if those interested in democracy don't get busy doing something soon....

we have an Aaron Russo ending!

[mod mom]

206. I kinda figured out after taking power & doing nothing about voting issues,

crimes against humanity & fixing a corrupt DoJ (think Don Seigelmann) that it was all one big $ money party $ just out for self financial gain & power. I wasn't surprised in the least.

[Kurovski]

213. Particularly voting issues as related to minorities, for godsake. (nt)

[hedgehog]

211. What I heard was Democratic objectives presented in centrist or

even (GASP!) Republican jargon. He presented our program using language that boxes the Republicans in. Boehner may be a weepy drunk, but he understood the speech well enough to be very unhappy. Biden was having a ball.

[decidedlyso]

218. Yes, it was a Republican feel-good speech. But he was forced to

make it to try and ameliorate the hate the Repubs have for him. The audience won't be on a "date night" again. Also, Obama is trying to widen his base so that he can compensate for the Democrats and Indies he's lost.

[Hubert Flottz]

224. You might be a dandy writer dude but you don't know a damned thing

about chess. Or is that checkers where you "King" your enemies?

[Stumbler]

225. Be careful now..

I've been critical of the prez and the responses to those posts are less than flattering.

[colsohlibgal]

232. You're hardly crazy

I wonder about the dogged apologists though. Still with the checkers and chess thing? I suppose hiring, out of the chute, people like Geithner and Summers was chess? Please.

We needed FDR and we are getting a far cry from it. I see too much carrying water for the oligarchy and too little carrying water for those that desperately need water.

[deacon]

235. Great speech. Speaking to education,r + d etc. are not "belly rubs" - it's to counter the chatter

of the GOP who are poised to take an axe to education, r + d, police officers etc. A confrontational/antagonizing SOTU whould have had the majority of viewers immediately switching to reruns of Married with Children. The nation as a whole is not looking for something like that right now.

[RoccoR5955]

236. Obama will be a better RepbuliCON president than Clinton was n/t

[abelenkpe]

240. Read the speech didn't listen

as I was at work. Maybe I'm too jaded and currently overworked to comment? Speech made me want to give up.

[TBF]

243. And that is exactly why we should ignore it - as I just wrote in

another thread we need to look outside our borders for inspiration. Europe, Tunisia, Egypt ... we can resist too.

[jus_the_facts]

241. Jesus H. Facepalming Christ, my friend...a blast from the past....

...you know I love you, Will...the rest of your prognostication remains yet to be seen.

Bookmark this thread. You can shove it up my ass if I'm wrong.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[TBF]

242. Will, looking at Mr. Obama is not going to inspire us -

try Europe, Tunisia, and Egypt. Working folks are starting to rise up and in large numbers. Don't let one republican speech get you down - that's all it was. There's a lot more going on out there and it's getting interesting.

[DirkGently]

244. Apparently the only cure for bank speculation is more ROTC on campus & lower gov't wages?

[kestrel91316]

246. I have to agree. Beautifully delivered, but classic repuke content.

I am thinking President Obama may displace President Clinton from the top of my list of Best Republican Presidents.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

250. I can't imagine why people who possess, and UTILIZE,

critical thinking skills expected anything different.

Time to move the fuck on from denial to acceptance. Accept the reality of the last 2+ YEARS ... from FISA, Health Insurance Industry enrichment, Wall Street/Bank gov't approved taxpayer looting, Gitmo, Patriot Act, stacking apointees and advisors with the very people who created the financial nightmare we, the PEOPLE, are drowning in and on and on and on...

I stopped listening long ago. He's just another politician. Talk is still cheap, no matter how pretty it may sound.

[swilton]

261. +1

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/davidswanson/...

[saras]

255. Poop claymore - it threw most of the shit to the left

People who like and value symbolism, rhetoric, and buzzwords seem to have loved the speech.
People who were looking for testable statements and concrete proposals seem to have hated the speech.

Personally, I think they all watched the same speech, and they're all right.

[ProSense]

260. More responses

here

[WVRICK13]

263. Wow

If the other post on here supporting that speech is what liberal Democrats think then I have lost sight as to what the hell political party I support. He spoke about killing social programs such as Community Services Block Grants, i.e., Community Action, lowering Medicare and Medicaid costs which translates into lowering services, and supporting free trade which accelerated the move of companies to China and other third world locations. Did he give two speeches? If so I missed the progressive speech.

[Demoiselle]

266. In answer to your original question, Will....

Um, yes. I felt I was hearing an excellent corporate pep talk. The part about "we've got to out-innovate, out-educate, out-build the rest of the world," sounded like so much chauvinist blather.
The only moment I felt at all cheered was when he observed we ought to stop giving the oil companies money.
I'm terribly sad about this. I never saw him as particularly left wing anyway--that's mostly a lot of rightwing nonsense--but I so want to be happy about where he's leading us--and I can't figure out WHERE he's leading us.

[tpsbmam]

267. It's as bad as you think it is.

I want to dig a hole and climb in it. I'd rather take a more proactive route and do what we all need to be doing: protest this shit en masse!




A K&R for the truth.

[ladywnch]

268. in a word: YES. I have sadly realized (finally) that they are all the same

They are ALL bought and paid for by Corporations.......either during the election cycle or immediately thereafter.....and those that can't or won't be bought are summarily scandalized, defamed and ultimately, removed.

None of them give a rat's rip about the citizenry. Some are just better at packaging it and selling it.....like Obama and Dems.

None of it will ever change until we get corporations out of the government and since we need the politicians/government to accomplish that and they have a vested interest in the status quo ain't nothing gonna change.

As long as they can keep us ignorant and afraid of everything around us we will be hostages/prisoners/slaves to both the corporations and their minions in the government.

Sorry to be a shit blanket but, it is what I now believe.

[rtassi]

269. It's worse, because he played on the hearts desires and intelligence

Of the American people who so dearly believed change could come through his leadership.

[CLANG]

270. The R's are playing checkers, BHO is playing 5-level chess.

[JDPriestly]

271. We could have picked Kucinich or Edwards, but they had other problems.

Obama is a bland conformist. He proposed interesting ideas about alternative energy -- once again. The problem with Obama is not his speeches. It is his inability to get people in D.C. behind him on his proposals. Of course, his proposals are very, very, very vague.

The good news is that a couple of people I know have recently gotten jobs. Also, when I road the train today, I heard people talking about just getting hired. So that is good news.

[rhett o rick]

276. The good news is that people are getting hired, the bad news is that they are getting slave labor

wages. GM just hire but at half the pay of the existing workers. Boeing did the same. Without jobs, corporations can slash wages.

[Faryn Balyncd]

273. Actually, the salmon joke was pretty good....

(But that, of course, was in support of a Republican meme.)



When 80% of Republican voters think it was a good speech, there is a problem.

[sarcasmo]

275. He said poop grenade.

[KoKo]

278. Howard Fineman says Obama Used a Boxing Ploy....."The Clinch"

We have now gone from "Masterful Chess and Poker Player to "skillful Boxing Tactics" which Obama has in his bag of tricks. It's an interesting read by Fineman though (Loved the "Love Train" theme)...and I could only give a few snips which don't give the full flavor of the article.

Hope H20 Man sees this one...knowing his love of boxing.---

---------------------------------------------


Obama State Of The Union 2011: Love Train In The House!

HuffingtonPost.com | Howard Fineman | January 26, 2011

WASHINGTON - It wasn't Kumbaya, it was more. We have finally witnessed it: a "Love Train" Moment in the capital.

The president almost made John Boehner cry by praising him as a working class hero. That was to be expected. But in his tour-de-force of good fellowship Tuesday night, Barack Obama went further.

For an hour or so, he shrewdly (and in his own interest) ended the anger of our politics, even though he had been a full-throated participant in some of its mayhem minutes in the last two years.

Instead, when he was done delivering his feel-good, oh-so-sensible and sotto voce State of the Union address, I expected the sound system in the House to begin blasting the O'Jays' classic--and to see the members dancing in a conga line in the aisles, Coors Light in hand.

Early polls showed that the speech was one of the most well-received he has ever given.

Allow me to switch metaphors. Obama is a boxing fan. So he knows that he did a clinch tonight. He's been losing on points, so he draped himself all over his foe mid-ring. That way, the president gathered strength while preventing his fresher opponent from getting any punching distance.

How did the president do this? Well, he capitalized on the obvious opportunity in the aftermath of Tucson to call for peace.

Much More at.....
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/25/obama-state-of...

[Lorien]

279. Fineman is a republican tool. nt

[Hotler]

281. One cold crunchy shit sandwich it was. n/t

[Skittles]

287. LOL.......Hotler

you're more direct than even me

[OwnedByFerrets]

282. +1

[guitar man]

283. Yep

He caught the Katy and left us a mule to ride unfortunately

[mzmolly]

284. No.

It was a well delivered, visionary speech.

[Skittles]

285. you are correct William

and there are a LOT of people in denial

[1776Forever]

286. No - I don't think it was............

When you are courting a nice girl an hour seems like a second. When you sit on a red-hot cinder a second seems like an hour. That's relativity.
Albert Einstein

[Crewleader]

289. Agree William!

Not Good My Friend.

[hulka38]

291. People continue to argue that Obama's a liberal.

What's it going to take? Is reality so terrible?

[Safetykitten]

292. We need to ready ourselves for a new republican era. We lost last night.

[Scruffy1]

293. The worst part is yet to come.

He already caved in advance to the Republicans. What the hell is the phony earmark BS about? Does he really believe that anyone is buying this crap?

[Sunnyshine]

294. Wouldn't be so bad- if nearly most of the GOP were liberal Republicans like Pres. Obama.

But they are barely moderate. Not too many centrists in their ranks. There is right, righter, and rightest, with too many being irrational or dishonest across the board.
That we continue to allow them to placate to us with these speeches bout how wonderful their piecemeal policies will be- is exactly why American conservatives rule
nearly everything that matters! As they continue to march this nation further right. Doing it with our silent consent. And our President!

And that's why it sucks to see him holding hands with them, singing their old favorite GOP songs. (Being funny here)

For it was US who worked so hard to get him up there- and we were hesitantly certain that he'd genuinely serve the people. For a change.
Part of me that that is in the making, as to be seen in next 4yrs. Cuz it's been decades and we need a Pres. of that caliber.
But most of me knows better than to expect anything different than the decade before. Policy making has purposely been stagnated.

Thinking, time we realize both parties leaderships- may in fact be in cahoots at keeping us just where we are at...Way DOWN.
People can hardly tell the difference between their policies and agenda's anyways. Not like this picking on Barack. It is just that obvious.

History is being rewritten and facts are being ignored. All of it corporate sponsored.

Even as they are sworn in to be truthful servants of the public and our laws- some have already broken and will continue to break rules, ethics, and laws. Instead they are given a daily pass for telling bold lies on national television. AND NO BODY CALLS THEM OUT. Not Democrats, not Republicans, not centrists, not even the moderates.

We gotta stop accepting this sh*t! We are settling for anything BUT the real thing.

[LibDemAlways]

297. What I would expect from a "moderate" Republican. Which

is pretty much what Obama is.

[quiller4]

298. You and I listened to different speeches.

I didn't hear a Republican speech. I heard one that moved the middle back where it belongs (thank you, Rachel, refused to back down from accomplishments and proposed a largely progressive agenda for moving forward.

Are you bothered by his offer to lower corporate tax rates? Don't be. The much more important statement was about closing tax loopholes. That means small businesses will get a break and GE will finally have to pay a tax bill. Bernie Sanders loves it but Republican lobbyists won't be so pleased.

[sendero]

305. How about..

... you get all warm and fuzzy when this actually comes to pass, because if history is any guide it is more HOT AIR BULLSHIT from Obama.

[SidDithers]

303. Herp Derp...nt

Sid