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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 10:31 AM
Original message
All Hell has broken loose in Egypt. The Guardian's doing live updates.
Edited on Tue Jan-25-11 10:31 AM by Joanne98
Blog home Protests in Egypt and unrest in Middle East live updates Cairo a 'war zone' as demonstrators demand president quit
Protests continue in Tunisia and Lebanon
Click here for summary of key events so far


Share447 Comments (71) This page will update automatically every minute: On | Off

Egyptians protest in central Cairo today. Photograph: Khaled El Fiqi/EPA

4.19pm: Sally Sami (aka Salamander) tweets the following from Cairo:

Just left tahrir square. Tear gas being bombed and all mobile lines not working mostly #jan25
less than a minute ago via Twitter for BlackBerry
Sally Sami
Salamander

4.07pm: Jack Shenker has just sent me this dramatic update from Egypt. He calls central Cairo a "war zone".

Downtown Cairo is a war zone tonight as reports come in of massive occupations by protesters in towns across Egypt, the centre of the capital is awash with running street battles. Along with hundreds of others I've just been teargassed outside the parliament building, where some youths were smashing up the pavement to obtain rocks to throw at police.

We've withdrawn back to the main square now were thousands more demonstrators are waiting and a huge billboard advertising the ruling NDP party has just been torn down. Security forces are continuing to use sound bombs and teargas to disperse the crowd, but so far to no avail.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/global/blog/2011/jan/25/middl...


I've got stuff to do so somebody else might want to keep up on this. The Egyptian goverment has been trying to shut down twitter and facebook. But they're still getting info out.


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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
1. I checked all the cable news chans and nada
Hearing it here first doesn't surprise. Thanks Joanne!
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RockaFowler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
22. Why the big secret here?/
My Dad (who is Egyptian) heard a few things a few weeks ago (rumblings about this). Nothing this bad, though. I'll see if Al Jazera has some more info. They aren't really good at giving out info either, though.
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cui bono Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #22
78. Because they don't want us getting any ideas.
I've heard Tunisia hasn't been on the network or cable news much either, if at all.

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molly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #78
84. My online newspaper the Bangor Daily News in upper state Maine
stated today they had been hacked by Tunisian hackers. Can you believe it? Republican publisher.Think Glenn Beck is going to make war on Tunisian hackers when he is done with Frances Fox Piven? These people are reaching.
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iamhuman Donating Member (11 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #78
89. I think they are a little braver in north africa than I am
I was at a eastern European Consulate, I over hear two Croatians talking.
one said to the "other aren't you going to try to go to USA"
"The other one said it isn't the land of opportunity any more I am going to Brazil"
He then when on to say, "I have a little money to invest, but I am a little guy, the big corporation own the country,politicians and the courts.
I haven't a chance plus the Americans have no back bone, look whats going on in Tunisia. They don't even put it together."
the first one asked "my dad loves it in the US put what together?"

He answered the top 1 percent have 80% of the money, how am I going to succeed in the USA unless I am somebody's play-toy? laughing who wants a 38yr old Croat.
Then it was hard for me to keep quite because he then said "and Americans are all spineless fools the top 1 percent got a raise bail out money no riots no protest nothing.

Got me to thinking.

IAM
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elzenmahn Donating Member (124 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #89
100. Got me thinking, too...
...about the "spinelessness" of the Americans as perceived internationally.

I don't think we're as much a "spineless" people as we are a broken people. If anything, we have allowed our spines to become broken with endless division, endless propaganda, endless bigotry, endless...BS. We've seen what daring to protest injustice will get you (see: Kent State, the RNC8 in Minneapolis, etc. etc. etc.): tear-gassed, beaten, shot, a criminal record (which can limit your options later in life), your reputation smeared by the Right Wing and its media organs, etc. etc. etc. So people have withdrawn into their own cocoons, knowing that something is seriously screwed up but feeling completely powerless to do anything about it.

Just the way the Right Wing and Corporate America likes us to be.

And I, for one, am getting F$*%#ING tired of it.
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NOLALady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-11 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #100
144. Usually, those with nothing to lose
can afford to agitate in this country.
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fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-11 05:43 AM
Response to Reply #78
136. Our corporate aristocracy wont like this, n/t
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
60. Mubarak is a US ally. That's why the crickets.
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thanks_imjustlurking Donating Member (462 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #60
83. Well, it was just on the ABC evening news.
Maybe they're figuring out they can't ignore things in the internet age. Or at least that if they do people find out anyway.....
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Shagbark Hickory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
73. Same here. This is all I found..
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #73
99. FYI: Many DUers won't click on mysterious links. nt
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sce56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
82. LA Times
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-egy...

Thousands of Egyptian protesters clash with police
Protesters take to the streets of Cairo to demonstrate against political repression and unemployment under President Hosni Mubarak. It is unclear if the protests in Egypt will mimic those in Tunisia, leading to revolt against the government.

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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
2. Do you think the Tunisian uprising might have helped spark this? nt
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Kablooie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. One of the protesters in the article says so.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. Yes, definitely. Other oppressed Arab countries have
been supporting the Tunisian people throughout their revolution.

Egypt especially was ready to explode for a long time.

There U.S. supported despots have managed to keep the people down for a long time, but now, when they cannot even find food for their families, I think this was inevitable and it's happening in other countries also.

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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-11 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #15
140. I can only imagine
the amount of pent-up anger in Egypt. Mubarak is the US-selected puppet. So much corruption and so many poor people.

It would be nice to see Mubarak fly to Saudi as well. I want to see as little bloodshed as possible...but I'm sure people are willing to die.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-11 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #140
152. That would be the best outcome, but so far he shows no sign
of doing so. Also, if he does, will the U.S. support the people's choice of a democratic government? Our history, in S. America eg, shows that the U.S. is more likely to side with the opposition and try to destabilize any new government no matter how secular or democratic it is.

To see democracy grow around the world, the U.S. and other Western powers need to abandon the old brutal cold war policies and start to 'look forward'. If we can look forward on war crimes, how about doing so on supporting real democracy, not the puppeteer kind we helped to install in Iraq and Afghanistan eg.
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TheBigotBasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #2
40. That has everything to do with it.
There were an awful (in many ways) lot of regimes who became rather more worried as a result of Tunisia.
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BobbyBoring Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
68. Yes
They share many thing like high food prices, high unemployment, and corrupt government.

HEY Wait a tick! Don't we have all that too!

I'll turn on CBS News and watch it there :sarcasm:
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GodlessBiker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
4. Bring it to the centers of civil and religious power! Good luck over there.
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
5. Is Hosni hosed?
Maybe he can use all the cash he has stashed to build a couple of pyramids on a nice little island in Bahrain.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
6. Key sentence: The Egyptian goverment has been trying to shut down twitter and facebook.
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Kalyke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Hey.... maybe we can start a meme that our Congress
is considering this so we can spur an uprising of the people!

:idea:

But, then again, no... I'm afraid our countrymen are too busy looking at the shiny thing to notice that their corporate overlords are about to reach into their pockets once again.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #8
33. Well, I did start a thread...... :-)
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mrfrapp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #6
75. Well spotted
Key sentence: The Egyptian goverment has been trying to shut down twitter and facebook.


Well spotted. It's interesting to note that just this week, Iran has stepped up it's opposition to twitter, facebook and the like. Perhaps the Iranian regime fear similar reprisals.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hLEy...
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
7. Mubarak is a dictator, but I love Egypt and this frightens me...
Edited on Tue Jan-25-11 11:44 AM by hlthe2b
I don't want to live to see a possible Islamic extremist take over of Egypt or conversely a very cruel secular dicatorship...

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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Yeah, that's the problem with revolutions.
The people casting off old shackles frequently just end up with new, different shackles.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. I'd like to see Mohamed ElBaradei become president
There's an election later this year, at which Hosni Mubarak is expected to step down, with him wanting to install his son Gamal. But ElBaradei (the ex-head of the IAEA, who acquited himself well during the Iraq invasion, I think) may stand. The BBC story (link in reply #9) says ElBaradei supported these protests. I hope it may become impossible for Mubarak to fix the election in favour of his son.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #11
101. Sounds good to me--hope he can pull it off n/t
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justiceischeap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. According to my co-worker, they are rioting because of the police
Apparently, they just beat this shit out of whomever they want, whenever they want. People are fed up with it.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #12
21. See my post to Sabrina below. I have lived & worked there...
Edited on Tue Jan-25-11 12:59 PM by hlthe2b
So, you would be foolish to think I don't know the problems there. Mubarek is a strong man and an often brutal dictator, one of many that the US has propped up over the years, because he would support many of our larger aims. I just don't want it to get far worse and there is a more than even chance of that. Iran is evidence of what can happen.



















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Puregonzo1188 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #21
46. Just curious, do you thin Iran would be better if the Shah was still in power?
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #46
53. I think if peaceful revolution had been supported by western nations
that either we would have had, at a minimum, major reforms towards a more democratic form of government--even if power had passed to one of the sons. Many Iraqis would not view their current plight to be dramatically better than when Saddam was in power, despite his horrendous excesses and cruelty. Likewise, many Iranians do not view overthrow of the, (very often horrific), Shah to have brought what they would have envisioned. We empowered the late Shah of Iran and we enabled him to become the corrupt bastard that he was. Had western powers instead tried to enable the more democratic factions within the populace then (as now), who knows what might have happened. Instead we were part of the corruption. The Ayatollahs saw a vaccum, an opportunity when the people had finally had enough, and they exploited it.

It is a very western thing to paint these dictators in black and white terms. The truth is, that for all their "darkness," there are often some aspects of their rule that their populations find to be beneficial, at least in retrospect, even if it is nothing more than stability. (the "devil you know," kind of thing)...For Coptic Christians in Egypt, the worry is losing that balance between secular and fundamentalist Islamic factions that Mubarak, for all his faults, has managed to maintain. Just one example.




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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-11 05:22 AM
Response to Reply #12
130. that's often the way it starts. nt
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GodlessBiker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. So, what's the answer? How do you get rid of a dictator?
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #13
23. I think they do need to be planning for Mubarak's exit...
He is not particularly healthy. But a coup when he remains sufficiently strong is an extremely risky proposition. Instability, which would occur with no quiet planning, would be the perfect opportunity for Muslim Brotherhood and more extremist fundamental Islamic factions to make their move.
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GodlessBiker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #23
49. Yes, there is risk. But you can't win if you don't play. Revolution can yield good things, too.
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MidwestTransplant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #23
97. I agree. They may move from a secular government if the uprising is successful.
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david13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. That was my thought. A "revolution" that makes things worse. dc
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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #14
77. Revolutions usually spark because things can't get any worse
When people have nothing to lose, watch out...
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david13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #77
94. Just when you think things couldn't get any worse, they do. dc
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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-11 02:19 AM
Response to Reply #94
118. That is usually what the ones who do not get the memo regarding the revolt say
Because unlike the people forced to revolt, they still have stuff to lose.
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david13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-11 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #118
151. Because the ones forced to revolt can't lose body parts, or their
lives, can they?
dc
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #7
18. Maybe if you lived under Mbarak's iron, oppressive rule
you would feel differently. Egypt is a great place for tourists, with the 'locals' under control, but living there is an entirely different story.

What makes you think it will be 'extremists' who take over? They want a real democracy, as do the people of Tunisia and elsewhere, as they did in Latin America.

The truth is people around the world have suffered greatly under the U.S. supported brutal and corrupt regimes where the Global Capitalist leaders sell out their country's resources while impoverishing their own people, and enriching themselves.

Nothing has contributed more to what we view as 'extremism' than this unfair system where people are kept down and the Colonialists invade and steal their resources.

For the people there, I hope they finally succeed and then I hope they get the democracy they want, which if it succeeds will reduce extremism far more effectively than all of our torture and bombs which only serves to increase it.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. I HAVE LIVED AND WORKED THERE...
Edited on Tue Jan-25-11 12:54 PM by hlthe2b
Have you? I maintain close contacts with friends and former colleagues there, often speaking via skype to them more often than my own family and have for nearly two decades. Your assumption is a foolish one. I am not arguing against attempts to gain their freedom. But, I also lived as a teen with my parents in Iran until the Shah was overthrown in 1978. Their revolution didn't go so well, so I am VERY informed on what CAN happen. You are assuming very incorrectly.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. There is never any guarantee that a revolution will solve
Edited on Tue Jan-25-11 01:31 PM by sabrina 1
a country's problems or that the results will be an improvement.

But when people are oppressed they will rise up, that is a guarantee as history has shown over and over again.

I have friends who visit and work in Egypt also. For them it is, or was, a very nice place but they were not born there and they don't have to stay there. Mubarak has catered to big business over the needs of the average Egyptian. It's been a nice place for European and Americans to visit and do business in but behind the facade, many people have been tortured and imprisoned and there is no democratic process there.

Mbubarak has been listed among the 20 worst dictators in the world.

It is THEIR country. If the people want him gone, and apparently they have for a long time, then it is up to them, not the U.S. or any of the other Western powers. It was their support that allowed the horrible conditions in many of the countries of Africa, the ME and Latin America to fester.

I am sure not everyone is on board with a revolution. They are never without tragedy and loss and it is a shame that it has to come to this point before these dictators listen. But across the globe people ARE rising up against those who have created unbearable conditions for them and we'll just have to hope that the results are an improvement over the lives they've led under oppression.

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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. That is certainly an obvious statement...
that I can't imagine anyone on this board would disagree with. But, we are quite naive' here to modern revolution (though our own CIA has certainly been involved in instigating quite a few). Having seen what happened to many of my parent's Iranian friends in 1979, I will never be so cavalier about the risks again.

Yes, I hope Egypt might be the exception. I support the efforts to move towards a more free society, wherever oppressive dictatorships exist. Such efforts in Egypt come with particular risks that few in the US really understand. After nearly 20 years, I can say that with certainty.

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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. If the U.S. and other Western powers would accept
Edited on Tue Jan-25-11 02:18 PM by sabrina 1
the will of the people and the leaders they choose, then maybe these revolutions would have a chance of succeeding in the beginning of the building of democracies. But our own history shows that when people do rise up, as in Iran eg, the U.S. has historically (Cuba and Venezuela, Ecuador, Honduras et al) worked against the people's choice, using often as you point out, the CIA and the most brutal elements in countries where we have 'interests' to destabilze those democracies.

These policies have not worked. Latin America was the first to throw off the chains of dictatorship and Western influence in their affairs. But the U.S. stubbornly refuses to let go of its old, failed, cold war strategies and while working against the emerging democracies in that region of the world, continued to support the corrupt, genocidal Colombian regime.

Now, it's Africa and Arab states rising up against these policies.

I think the time has come for the U.S. to start supporting the people, rather than the corrupt corporations who have destroyed so many countries, their environments, their people, their traditions and their freedoms.

A new attitude is required by the Western Powers, or as you pointed out re Iran, it is far more likely for extremism to take hold after the initial success of overthrowing the dictatorships when Western powers refuse to accept the will of the people and become their enemy, further entrenching extremism and guaranteeing its success.

Quite frankly imho, it is shameful that we still support so many of the world's worst dictators, in Uzbekistan and elsewhere. We need to 'move forward' and help the world become a more democratic place. History will not record our role in the misery inflicted on so many millions of people very favorably.

Having said all that, I do agree with you that we cannot predict the outcome of these uprising, I can only say that listening to the people's list of 'grievances', they are not that different from those attached to the Declaration of Independence. The outcome of that revolution could have been very different also.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. I agree....
totally. :thumbsup:
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. Thank you for the civil discussion ~
and for offering your personal experiences and reasons for being cautious. I learned a little more and thought about what you said, so I thank you for that - :hi:
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #34
39. absolutely...
;) back at ya.
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FlaGatorJD Donating Member (141 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #34
65. It's refreshing to see an intelligent, civil, and agreeable disagreement
Thank you both for that :hi:

This is the type of thread that makes DU great.



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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #65
87. That is very nice of you to say, thank you!
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-11 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #34
142. Yes, I enjoyed following
your discussion. I am a huge fan of civility.

OK, put on your :tinfoilhat: sometimes I think TPTB wanted a theocracy installed in Iran. Why? A way to have continual war. Especially after I read Seymour Hersch's words at a conference for Georgetown University in Qatar (I believe) about the Kings of Malta and Opus Dei being part of our military. A return to the Crusades which is just INSANE.

"Turning Mosques into Catholic Churches." This plan MUST fail.

Let the Secularists of the World unite and tolerate all.

OK, please remove :tinfoilhat:
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BobbyBoring Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #30
71. Exactamundo
We've done this time and time again and it comes back to bite us in the ass. A country (where ever) is unfriendly to big biz X so we send in the CIA, destabilize the country and shit hits the fan.
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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #30
79. These uprisings are complex, and the whole context needs to be discussed to properly understand
The Iranian revolution was instigated for the most part by the same "extremists" which are now in power. They did not come into power out of a vacuum created by the West failure to support the disposing of the Sha's regime by the people of Iran. This was because the Sha had been put there by the West (US and UK specifically) to begin with.

Many of the revolutions and uprisings in the second half of the XX century and whatever little of the XXI century we have wandered have been for the most part reactions against European colonial rule and puppet regimes stablished by the US. The current Egypt and Tunez regimes are examples of the latter.

It is very hypocritical for the US to think the success of these revolutions depends on our "support." Since the people are directly or indirectly revolting against American rule being imposed on them, albeit transitively. If anything the success of these revolutions depend on the US actually staying the hell out of other people's business.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #79
90. You miss the point in several important aspects
Edited on Tue Jan-25-11 06:56 PM by hlthe2b
First, it isn't that a revolution's success always depends on our "support." An exception may occur where (as in Iran) we have been totally propping up a dictator (Shah, by the way, not Sha) that we had put in place to begin with for many many years. That long period of interference not only allowed Shah Rezā Pahlavi to totally consolidate his power, but likewise left the Iranians poorly prepared to offer a substitute to the Shah's strong-fisted reign. Thus, the vacuum that the Ayatollah's were able to capitalize on.

I never said the fundamentalist factions were not part of the overthrow. They clearly were. As I said, my family was there up until a few months before the overthrow. I know first hand what happened to those more progressive, highly educated (and westernized) Persian advocates of a democratic republic, both before and following the overthrow. Some families have never recovered. However, several long term friends of my parents managed to get out of Iran before Ayatollah Khomeini took complete control. They note how ill prepared they were to put in a substitute government following the deposure of the Shah and which provided the perfect conditions for the Ayatollahs to come in. Revolutions often happen when a boiling point has been reached or an inciting event. Those revolutions struggle when there has been insufficient opportunity to plan for eventualities. They struggle even more, when the existing government is being propped up by western interests. All those factors came to pass in Iran, leading to the long term simmering hate and resentment towards the West thereafter.

Our own CIA was caught off guard because they ignored warnings from those observing the corruption and growing unrest. The signs were not hard to see if you actually were living among the Iranian people (and not isolated in American enclaves).
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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-11 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #90
120. Technically it is not that I missed the point as much as you wanted to let us know "you were there"
Edited on Wed Jan-26-11 02:34 AM by liberation
If anything, I don't think you got my point at all... It seems you missed the replying hierarchy, since I wasn't answering your post.
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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-11 05:35 AM
Response to Reply #120
133. So one can only speak when spoken to here?
Edited on Wed Jan-26-11 05:38 AM by JTFrog
"replying heirarchy"?

That's um... let's just say rich. Did the person you replied to originally reply to you?

You do know how a message board works, right? :crazy:





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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-11 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #79
153. Good post. You would think we would learn from history
Edited on Wed Jan-26-11 01:37 PM by sabrina 1
Western Colonial rule has destroyed nations, in fact whole continents, across the globe, Africa, S. America, the ME going back a long way. It's sad that the U.S. which was warned by its Founding Fathers when they threw off the chains of Colonialism themselves, not to engage in 'foreign adventures'.

We talk a lot here lately in this country about 'moving forward, not looking back' ~ well, when it comes to war crimes and such 'unimportant' issues I mean.

I think we need to apply that 'looking forward, develop amnesia' philosophy now to our decades-long policies of installing and supporting Dictators after helping to overthrow democratic governments.

The Cold War is over. Yes, I know we have replaced it with the great WOT, but I don't think anyone is buying that anymore as an excuse for supporting brutal despots when the people have spoken so clearly about what they want.

All around the world people are rising up against the Global Capitalist system that has impoverished them while enriching and empowering their brutal regimes. And as you say, these uprisings are as much against the newest Empire as against their own governments. You can see the signs condemning the U.S. for its support for Mubarak and Ben Ami and other dictators among the protestors.

If the U.S. wants to have a different ending to its overseas adventures than the last several Empires, there needs to be a discussion now about ending those Cold War policies and maybe apologizing to the people of the world for the support they gave to those who inflicted nothing but misery on their own people.

We could start by removing support from the rightwing opposition factions in Latin American countries.



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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-11 05:31 AM
Response to Reply #30
131. imperialism is constitutionally incapable of "giving up"....
.....or supporting progress. it will not happen and anyone suggesting anything different is misleading.

progress is virtually by definition that which is wrested from the hands of power.

this would be obvious to everyone were it not for the billions spent on brainwashing via the media.
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dotymed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-11 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #26
138. The consequence of this and other revolutions
is that America is viewed (correctly) as a power that has helped enslave the people. Therefore, the people will not trust America, which may, since America claims to be a Democracy, make the people very wary of creating a Democracy.
Whatever happens, IMO, the new government will not be a U.S. ally.
I hope that Egypt and Tunis create a government that is people based like those in many of the newly free Latin American countries. Hopefully, they will be successful and help guide Americans toward a system that puts people before profits.
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dugaresa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #7
25. an Islamic Extremist takeover in Egypt will set Israel on edge
and it will just destabilize the region even further.

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StarsInHerHair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-11 03:18 AM
Response to Reply #25
123. they have tweeted and mostly say they want DEMOCRACY-not inherited power
Mubarak had stated in the past his son will become "president" when he either retires or dies. It is an insult to the title of president, you do not inherit a presidency.
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Joe Fields Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #7
43. from what reporting I've been seeing and reading, it is Egyptians
of all stripes. This doesn't appear to be a religious uprising.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. that's not what I am implying. I do not doubt it is all inclusive...
If you think back and know the history, so, too was the revolution in Iran. But, in the chaos following the overthrow of the Shah, the extreme Islamic factions found their opportunity.
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Swede Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #45
63. History is replete with this problem.
Popular uprising usurped by the worst opportunists.
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Confusious Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #63
72. No shit. I agree. Lets hope it doesn't happen.
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #63
95. Yeah, the Russian Revolution comes to mind in that regard...
Re "Popular uprising usurped by the worst opportunists."
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
9. Also on BBC.
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sixmile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
16. Live Feed on usstream
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/egypt-15jan
Crowd chanting, I don't know what.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
17. ah the dominoes start to go
for once that is going to actually work.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
19. Just alerted the Hartmman program too
I mean our radio might cover it... while the tv sleeps.
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
24. Solidarity with the people of Egypt. nt
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BOG PERSON Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
28. horrible news
mubarak is our friend and ally. he's done an excellent job suppressing islamic extremism and making egypt safe for democracy in the not-too-distant future. we can't just turn our backs on him now, not when terrorism is finally on the retreat.
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Boojatta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #28
41. "making egypt safe for democracy in the not-too-distant future"
How about tomorrow? That's the future. Is it too far in the future?
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BOG PERSON Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. too soon tbh
clearly they are not ready for democracy. if they were, would they be running amok in the streets right now? the answer is no.
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redwitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #44
48. I guess France and Britain aren't ready either.
And hey, I have been to DC a time or two to protest the government's decisions on war and such. I'm not ready for democracy either?
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BOG PERSON Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #48
54. how can you be democratic or undemocratic?
that's something you describe a society as. you aren't a society, you are an individual.
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redwitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #54
59. Well to clarify there were 100's of thousands of people with me.
So answer the question please.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #44
52. I suppose Tunisia, nearly all of Latin America
Jordan, Honduras, France, Iceland, Spain, Greece and Britain are not ready for Democracy either.

Some people didn't think the U.S. was ready back in 1776 either.

Let us know when you decide the world needs the U.S. to tell it when they are ready for democracy, okay?

It is the very fact that the U.S. and other western powers have been supporting and still are, some of the worst dictators in the world, that has necessitated these revolutions, just as happened when the British Empire was doing what we are now doing and countries around the globe rose up finally against them.

It is our shame that Mbubarak is one of our allies.

It's a sad statement that you are calling a man who has been listed among the world's 20 worst dictators 'our friend and ally'

We have too many dictator friends and allies who routinely torture and kill their own people, such as China eg. That seems to be the problem doesn't it? Maybe WE are the ones 'not ready for democracy'! :eyes:

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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #44
55. That is circular logic.
The streets are the place of direct democracy.
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BOG PERSON Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 03:18 PM
Original message
no, that's mob rule you're thinking of.
in fact the polling place is where direct democracy happens.
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
62. You have to demand a polling place. Dictators don't offer it up.
Edited on Tue Jan-25-11 03:22 PM by tekisui
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 06:28 PM
Response to Original message
88. Yes, which is why there is a need for a revolution when
live under a dictator like Mubarak. And that is what the people are doing.
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Puregonzo1188 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #28
47. Did you forget the Sarcasm tag?
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NuclearDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #28
50. Mubarak has had Egypt under emergency law since 1981
Under that, he has the right to throw anyone he likes in prison for no reason, for however long he wants.

Oh...I guess I'm not surprised now why we support him.
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-11 05:40 AM
Response to Reply #50
135. but that's "democratic" emergency law, dontcha know. nt
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StarsInHerHair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-11 03:16 AM
Response to Reply #28
122. no he is anti-democratic
I see u!
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-11 05:38 AM
Response to Reply #28
134. obviously a substantial group of EGYPTIANS disagrees.
and you presume that a democracy exists because voting takes place. these are not equivalent (see u.s. history c. 2000).
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
29. al jazeera link...


Two Egyptians have died after a wave of unusually large anti-government demonstrations swept across the country.

The two died in the eastern city of Suez, according to the Reuters news agency. The report did not detail how or when they died.

Thousands of Egyptians have taken to the streets in demonstrations, reportedly the largest in years, that they have explicitly tied to the successful uprising in nearby Tunisia.

On Tuesday night, hours after the countrywide protests began, the interior ministry issued a statement blaming the Muslim Brotherhood, Egypt's technically banned but largest opposition party, for fomenting the unrest.

Inspired by events in Tunisia, thousands of protesters gathered in Cairo and elsewhere, calling for reforms and demanding an end to the presidency of Hosni Mubarak, which has now lasted for nearly three decades.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/01/20...
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #29
103. Thanks. Great pictures. But a note on Al-Jazeera
Aljazeera and Egypt

Many Egyptians are furious that Aljazeera has not been covering the massive protests in Egypt today. Explanation? Mubarak visited Emir of Qatar last month and basically reached an agreement to reduce Aljazeera's critical coverage of Egypt and Mubarak's tyranny.

http://angryarab.blogspot.com/2011/01/aljazeera-and-egy...
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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-11 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #103
110. There are two Al Jazeeras and we have to be careful not to conlfate the two
Edited on Wed Jan-26-11 01:12 AM by Turborama
Al Jazeera English Is broadcast globally and has been covering this, as you can see on their front page http://english.aljazeera.net / & their YouTube channel http://www.youtube.com/user/aljazeeraenglish and their TV channel http://www.youtube.com/user/aljazeeraenglish

Al Jazeera (the Arabic language channel) Is broadcast locally and may not have been covering it, as Angry Arab states. I don't know because we can only get Al Jazeera English here. http://www.aljazeera.net/portal

UPDATE - Al Jazeera are reporting it on their website: http://www.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/F0178AFC-9965-458E-B...

As they state themselves:

Myth: Al Jazeera English is a Translation of the Arabic Channel
Al Jazeera English is unlike any other channel in the word. We are truly concerned with reporting international affairs, not just news that is governed by the West. We are a separate channel from Al Jazeera Arabic and we offer a different perspective. However, we are proud to build on the Arabic channels heritage of fearless reporting.
http://www.iwantaje.net/hm
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-11 02:14 AM
Response to Reply #110
117. I hope so. Thanks! n/t
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-11 04:11 AM
Response to Reply #110
128. Al Jazeera talk corresp Mohmd Shakir alashmawi arrested in #Egypt
HaninSh RT @fatmanaib: Al Jazeera talk corresp Mohmd Shakir alashmawi arrested in #Egypt by authorities #Jan25 @AJArabic plz RT he needs help half a minute ago via TweetDeck
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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-11 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #128
139. Reporter on the phone now saying the protests are picking up again
They just interviewed a protester who said that they have been inspired by what's happening in Tunisia and this is just the beginning.

No comments about Mohmd Shakir Alashmawi on AJ English so far, though.
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-11 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #139
147. Al-Jazeera blocked
Edited on Wed Jan-26-11 11:03 AM by Catherina
# Malmeen_normal malmeen RT @marwsay: Al-Jazeera Mubasher has been blocked on Nile-Sat, watch it on Arab-Sat or Hotbird. Spread the word! #Egypt #Jan25 less than 20 seconds ago via Twitter for BlackBerry


Live Al-Jazeera TV coverage: http://bestfree-tv-live.com/news-channels/276-%D9%82%D9...
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rabs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
31. Just spotted a twitter msg saying
Edited on Tue Jan-25-11 02:11 PM by rabs


Egypt: President's son and family 'have fled to the UK' #Jan25 #Egypt http://fb.me/J6SmQF7q
1 minute ago izzy82


@JDSnel Reports of Security forces in Alexandria joining protestors & removing uniform despite orders to shoot #egypt #jan25 @cnn @AJELive
2 minutes ago Scrataliano

(Of course anything can be said by twitterers so it's not known whether it is true.)

(edit to add Alexandria)
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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
35. Great photo of one protest.
Edited on Tue Jan-25-11 02:31 PM by pampango


At the site there are several other photos.

http://english.aljazeera.net/photo_galleries/africa/201...
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
hulka38 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #35
92. One of those guys
in front of the green banner has an excellent sweater.
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #35
104. Wow! More power to them. Thanks n/t
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Liberal_in_LA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
37. keep updating us
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UnrepentantLiberal Donating Member (747 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
38. The House of Saud
can't be happy about this.
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #38
96. No shit! Saudi Arabia is a fundamentalist theocracy already.
It's hard to see how they could possibly get anything that would be an improvement over what they have already. Or worse, for that matter. Does any kind of alternative or potential leadership even exist there?
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agentS Donating Member (922 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #38
98. They're probably worried that they are next.
Though I think if Egypt falls, the next domino is Yemen.
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Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
42. I wonder what it's gonna take for us?
The teabaggers have been in power for three weeks and no new jobs have been created. :grr:
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NuclearDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
51. This is the part where we step up and ensure a peaceful transition
Mubarak's on his way out. Egypt's ready to move on, but if we let these riots get out of control and this revolution turns bloody, the extremist elements in Egyptian society are going to be quick to take over.
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #51
58. You know damn well that will never happen.
We will not step up to ensure a peaceful transition. If anything, we will offer Mubarak our support.

I'd like to see another timely wikileak, anything they have on the corruption of Mubarak to keep it going. It helped in Tunisia.
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NuclearDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #58
61. I know...but a man can dream, can't he?
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #51
74. God, what American arrogance.
How about we keep our deeply unwelcome selves out of their business?

China has been playing honest broker in Egypt for a while. They're setting up all kinds of relationships. Let China have some fun. China isn't a suspect Israel ally and we are.
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NuclearDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #74
86. Ah, sorry, forgot I was being arrogant about the "bastion of human rights"
actually standing up for human rights once in it's career.

Fair points about Israel and China though...
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rabs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
56. Tiananmen-style moment in Cairo



About 1:25 into the video. Protester stops water cannon vehicle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtTUsqra-MU


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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
57. GO EGYPTIANS!
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #57
64. Power to the People!
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Confusious Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #64
70. Which people is the question

The secularists in Egypt, or the fundamentalists.
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #70
76. The people want democracy. I support that.
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Confusious Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #57
69. Actually

A little worrisome. Egypt has a large faction of fundamentalist. I hope they keep their secular society.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
66. just this once i'd like to see the U.S. not support the dictator and support
and get behind the egyptian people and support the democratic principle of self determination.

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bergie321 Donating Member (797 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #66
81. Does Egypt allow US corporations access to their oil?
I think that is the deciding factor...
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #81
85. Does Egypt have significant out? Nt
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
67. 3 dead as police battle protesters in Egypt
3 dead as police battle protesters in Egypt

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post...

And they're vowing to keep protesting until dawn!
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #67
91. They had to start killing people. I was hoping they would not.
Watching the crowds today on Utube, I was scared for them ~

This will only make things worse. Don't these dictators ever learn? :cry:
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bergie321 Donating Member (797 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
80. I wonder
If Republicans are going to credit the Iraq Invasion for this also?
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OwnedByFerrets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #80
93. No, the Rethugs will be crowing that Iran is behind it and we should
bomb, bomb, bomb them.
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
102. "O Mubarak. O Mubarak. Saudi Arabia is waiting for you."
Edited on Tue Jan-25-11 11:24 PM by Catherina
Egyptians and Sudanese are the best people when it comes to slogans and chants. Today, in Egypt: demonstrators chanted:
يا مبارك, يا مبارك. السعوديّة بإتنظارك
O Mubarak. O Mubarak. Saudi Arabia is waiting for you.

http://angryarab.blogspot.com/2011/01/o-mubarak.html




Protestors in Egypt tearing down Mubarak's poster

Great video here http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/01/20...



Roads are blocked all over cairo, protests are still going on, people are hysterical, some screaming "the country is on fire"

http://twitter.com/adamakary/status/30051024400027648


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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-11 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
105. Hillary Rodham Clinton foolishly threw the administration's weight behind Mubarak
Edited on Tue Jan-25-11 11:31 PM by Catherina
...

But when Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton was asked about the demonstrations, she foolishly threw the administration's weight behind the 82-year-old Mr. Mubarak.

"Our assessment is that the Egyptian government is stable and is looking for ways to respond to the legitimate needs and interests of the Egyptian people," Ms. Clinton said.

The secretary's words suggested that the administration remains dangerously behind the pace of events in the Middle East. It failed to anticipate Tunisia's revolution; days before President Zine el-Abidine Ben Ali was driven from the country Ms. Clinton said the United States was "not taking sides" between the dictator and his protesting people. Last week President Obama called Mr. Mubarak but said nothing about the political situation in Egypt - including the regime's plan to hold a one-sided presidential "election" this fall that would extend Mr. Mubarak's mandate for another six years.

Tuesday's events suggested that the Cairo government is not at all stable. Three people were killed in the occasionally violent demonstrations, and thousands of protesters remained camped in Cairo's central Tahrir Square overnight. They will not be easily satisfied - because Mr. Mubarak in fact is not trying to "respond to legitimate needs and interests." Instead the government is seeking to perpetuate itself in power by force, and pave the way for an eventual dynastic succession to power by Mr. Mubarak's son.

Egypt has been a vital ally of the United States, and a potential change of regime there is frightening to many in Washington, especially given the strength of the country's Islamist movement. Those concerns are legitimate. But blind U.S. backing for Mr. Mubarak makes a political disaster in Egypt more rather than less likely. Instead of stressing the government's stability, Ms. Clinton and Mr. Obama need to begin talking about how it must change.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...
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mackerel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-11 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #105
106. This may have been posted already but they shut down
twitter access there.
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-11 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #106
107. They think that's gonna stop anything? Interesting. Thanks. Someone remind
Edited on Wed Jan-26-11 12:46 AM by Catherina
Someone remind Mubarak these people didn't have twitter either






I just read this



Mobile phone firms deny responsibility for service failures during Tuesday demos


Mobile phone companies operating in Egypt have denied responsibility for repeated network failures during Tuesday's Day of Rage demonstrations.

Network failures were reported in Cairo's Tahrir Square--where Tuesday's demonstrations climaxed in an open-ended sit-in--and in surrounding areas.

Mobile phone company officials said they assumed that the government had interrupted phone services, but declined to comment on whether they themselves had been ordered to do so by security authorities.

http://www.almasryalyoum.com/en/news/mobile-phone-firms...
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Kalyke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-11 12:54 AM
Response to Original message
108. I am so enthralled.
My ex is Arabic. My son has an Egyptian name. I wear the Eye of Ra (my son's name is a derivative of that name) and the Covent of Isis around my neck.

2012 is no bullshit.

The Mayans never said it was the end of the world - only the coming form of Enlightenment.

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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-11 01:01 AM
Response to Original message
109. "Its raining (US-made) tear gas"
# #Jan25 Police attack @ 1:20am, downtown Cairo
January 26th, 2011

# #Jan25 Its raining (US-made) tear gas
January 26th, 2011

# #Jan25 Police fire tear gas at Cairo protesers
January 26th, 2011

# #Jan25 Tear gas in Tahrir Square قنابل الغاز بميدان التحرير
January 26th, 2011

# #Jan25 Egypts Intifada الشعب يريد إسقاط النظام
January 26th, 2011

# #Jan25 We want Mubarak OUT! باطل باطل
January 26th, 2011

# #Jan25 Revolution till victory المنصورة: ثورة حتى النصر
January 26th, 2011

# #Jan25 Police fire tear gas in Mansoura قنابل الغاز أمام مقر الحزب الوطني
January 26th, 2011

http://www.arabawy.org /


#Jan25 Police attack @ 1:20am, downtown Cairo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBTInSi4-nY



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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-11 02:11 AM
Response to Reply #109
116. Picture
Edited on Wed Jan-26-11 02:11 AM by Catherina
http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/230934400.j...

Twitter caption is "US made tear gas 'standing with people's democratic aspirations' #Jan25 #Egypt #SOTU"
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-11 01:33 AM
Response to Original message
111. Egypt gets its Tiananmen square moment.
Egypt gets its Tiananmen square moment.
Video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtTUsqra-MU






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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-11 01:37 AM
Response to Original message
112. "They will never learn: @StateDept releases new statement "
Elicoopter_mid_copie_normal Elicoopter_mid ProJ @ircpresident: They will never learn: @StateDept releases new statement on #Egypt #jan25 http://bit.ly/gqJ2jt



Press Statement
Philip J. Crowley
Assistant Secretary, Bureau of Public Affairs
Washington, DC
January 25, 2011

We are monitoring the situation in Egypt closely. The United States supports the fundamental right of expression and assembly for all people. All parties should exercise restraint, and we call on the Egyptian authorities to handle these protests peacefully.

As Secretary Clinton said in Doha, people across the Middle East like people everywhere are seeking a chance to contribute and to have a role in the decisions that will shape their lives. We want to see reform occur, in Egypt and elsewhere, to create greater political, social, and economic opportunity consistent with peoples aspirations. The United States is a partner of Egypt and the Egyptian people in this process, which we believe should unfold in a peaceful atmosphere.

We have raised with governments in the region the need for reforms and greater openness and participation in order to respond to their peoples aspirations and we will continue to do so.


PRN: 2011/105
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2011/01/155307.htm
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-11 01:41 AM
Response to Reply #112
113. GREAT Pictures here
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-11 01:50 AM
Response to Original message
114. Day 2. "Security forces in Alexandria joining protestors, removing uniform despite orders to shoot"
sweethabibi RT @hysharara: RT @CaireneGirl everything will resume all over Egypt at 9am today. We will not go without a fight. #Jan25 #Egypt #Tahrir #Cairo


Ghafari RT @ianinegypt: This morning's police presence downtown isn't as tight... We'll see what today brings. #jan25 #Egypt


Twitter is blocked BUT here's a message from Egyptian youth. Apparently they were prepared. I found relays all over the place.

Ehsanity RT @hannam6: #Jan25, the word "block" bears no value to the tech savie beasts that are the egyptian youth....hello EGYPTIAN TWEETERS


And this one, best of ALL!



BreathingPsyAir RT @stand4haq: RT @Khan_Zubair Reports of Security forces in Alexandria joining protestors and removing uniform despite orders to shoot. #Egypt #Jan25
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-11 01:57 AM
Response to Original message
115. "Tonight in Cairo, the Parliament is Surrounded" (Firsthand account)
Tonight in Cairo, the Parliament is Surrounded




Tonight, protesters have surrounded the parliament building in downtown Cairo. There have been two deaths of protestors in Suez; one policeman has died in Cairo, hit by a rock. The protestors in Tahrir Square have been tear-gassed, and Twitter has been blocked within the borders of Egypt.

...

There had been tweets that protests would be staged in Tahrir Square and in the downtown neighborhood of Mohandeseen. These tweets were received by Egyptian authorities monitoring the hashtag #jan25, and they deployed a massive security presence to deter any demonstrations. Officers stood in groups of 6 to 8, on nearly every street corner. They blockaded the entrance to the parliament building. The teams stood quietly with folded arms watching the empty streets as the sun rose over the Nile.

...

Around the block, I exited my taxi and sat down at a nearby hotel for coffee, waiting as the hours passed. I saw six trucks of police pass on the highway, heading south to Mohandeseen. I jumped into a taxi and followed them.

But here as well, only a small army of police guarded the downtown commercial district. Not a demonstrator was in sight, and sensing this protest had ended before it would begin, I went home.

When I arrived, the Twitter hash #jan25 lit up. Someone said that earlier tweets had been deliberately planted as decoys to mislead authorities. Now, in dozens of real locations throughout the city, protesters had begun to mobilize.

I ran out the door and took the subway back to Tahrir Square.

When I arrived, the protest had begun. In the street a group of close to 200 Egyptians, mostly men, were standing, chanting and waving flags. Blocking both sides of the street were lines of police in riot gear. Immediately surrounding them, outnumbering the protesters, were older Egyptian men and young women.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUC2-tex8_o

...

another wave of hundreds of protesters, mostly men, was charging towards them chanting, Allah help us. Seeing the retreating police, I started down the street hoping to get out to the highway. As I fled an Egyptian man in his mid 40s stopped me.

Not there, he said, more protesters are coming, this way. He pointed to a side alleyway.

Where are they coming from? I asked.

Everywhere, he said, they are coming in waves, every ten minutes from all over the city.

Why?

They dont like the government. No food. No drink for people. Many people poor. This is just beginning. Next group comes out in a half hour.

It is planned this way?

Yes, he said.

...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_emuOVvlbU

http://www.theawl.com/2011/01/tonight-in-cairo-the-parl...

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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-11 02:20 AM
Response to Original message
119. 3 Gov't websites unavailable. Courtesy of Anonymous
Edited on Wed Jan-26-11 02:22 AM by Catherina
Ministry of Defence





Ministry of Foreign Affairs

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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-11 03:02 AM
Response to Original message
121. Advice from the Tunisians, protestors gathering, Day 2 of Rage
Edited on Wed Jan-26-11 03:02 AM by Catherina
# mehditc RT @litfreak: Tips coming out of #Tunisia: Spray paint police trucks' windshields so they can't see/drive. Wash tear gas victims' faces with milk. #Jan25 less than a minute ago via web


NoureenRamzy RT @shmpOngO: Thousands r protesting in Mossadaq street Dokki ,Giza #Jan25 less than a minute ago via berTwitter


An_Egyptian RT @ianinegypt: Tahrir square is quite for now. Organizers say they are gathering around the city and will be marching there soon. #Egypt #Jan25 less than a minute ago via TweetDeck


pracob RT @AnthonyDGatt: Residents giving protesters food, canceling wireless routers so demonstrators could communicate #Egypt #Jan25


GabyVerdier #Jan25 RT @rassdwehda: Day two of Rage and activists plan to continue in nationwide protests including Shebin el Kom Mubarak's home town less than a minute ago via TweetDeck


PTOnly RT @Muschelschloss: Suzanne Mubarak of #Egypt has fled to Heathrow airport in London: unconfirmed reports http://bit.ly/eONVeq #Jan25 #Jan26 #News less than a minute ago via web
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-11 03:24 AM
Response to Original message
124. 3 badly hurt today. Protesters breaking through police barriers in Cairo
Edited on Wed Jan-26-11 03:29 AM by Catherina
soraida_fae RT @monasosh: We need doctors to head to hisham mobarak, 3 badly injured and we need help #jan25 less than a minute ago via Twitter for BlackBerry

lenguaraz RT @NohaAtef: A friend of mine in Tahrir (#Cairo) confirms that women outnumber men in the sit in there! ;) even if not accurate, I like it! #Jan25 less than a minute ago via web

# Picture_om_normal razaniyat I really really cannot stand and forgive Hillary Clinton for her outrageous statements on #sidibouzid and #jan25 less than a minute ago via TweetDeck

marwame The police arresting people in tahrir square in cairo are high ranking officers. #jan25 1 minute ago via Snaptu

# Dsc02725_normal abdullahali7 RT @SherineT: #Egypt Interior Min: NO more protests will be allowed;Security forces exercised restraint for hours:protestors attacked our forces #Jan25 less than a minute ago via Nambu

# 59916_435665489290_511364290_4822530_6478347_n_normal adamakary Interior ministry released a pretty harsh statement warning protesters that last night will never happen again #jan25 half a minute ago via Twitter for BlackBerry

hothotsa RT @ManarMohsen: RT @NoureenRamzy: RT @shmpOngO: Thousands are protesting in Mossadaq street, Dokki, Giza. #Jan25 less than a minute ago via Snaptu

Orisian RT @blogsofwar: RT @Zeinobia live ammunition is reportedly being used in the protests #Egypt #Tahrir #Jan25 less than a minute ago via web

Orisian RT @blogsofwar: RT @NevineZaki These are NOT rubber bullets! #Jan25 http://yfrog.com/h8tc1vj 1 minute ago via web

# Manchester_fire_normal Geetas75 RT @fustat: R @BBCWorld Egypt's interior ministry says anyone joining a second day of anti-government demonstrations will be prosecuted (AFP) #Jan25 less than a minute ago via web

# Twitterprofilephoto_normal Eubuleus RT @blogsofwar: RT @weddady The info I am getting: government canceling cell phone numbers of ppl/activists known to be organizing #Jan25 half a minute ago via TwitBird iPad

abdullahali7 RT @jrug: Protests called for noon but Egypt Interior Ministry declaring them illegal/say will prosecute - govt wants last night to be it. #Jan25 less than a minute ago via Twitter for BlackBerry

ShaimaStreet RT @marwame: Security forces randomly arresting/kidnapping people in tahrir square in Cairo now. #jan25 half a minute ago via Snaptu

MODERN1ST RT @Dima_Khatib: Protesters are reported to break through police barriers & cordons in several areas of Cairo #JAN25 #Egypt #Sidibouzid less than a minute ago via web


# 0f2a506a-f1bf-40a2-b1d8-31e99843b735_normal Novinha56 RT @RHelmii: @Sandmonkey we are on the way HUGE numbers get readyy !#jan25 less than a minute ago via TweetDeck

Auc_logo_normal KimFoxWOSU RT @diptychal: So far the two ways that have worked getting on twitter in Cairo are VPN Express on iPhone/iPad and Tor on computer #Jan25
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-11 03:56 AM
Response to Reply #124
126. About the women. Not sure if this is true but
Edited on Wed Jan-26-11 03:57 AM by Catherina
# Default_profile_0_normal nonarabarab RT @litfreak: Fantastic. I leave you for the night with news that stationed police officers are now blowing kisses to girls on the street. #Jan25 #Egypt less than a minute ago via web
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-11 03:45 AM
Response to Original message
125. Egyptian stock market crashing.
yslaise RT @shadihamid: So much for 'stability' RT @bencnn: Egyptian stock market crashing. Loses 21 billion pounds in first 15 minutes of trading #jan25 #egypt less than a minute ago via Tweetie for Mac

ashraf9999 RT @rubadubadu: BREAKING: Al-Jazeerah: Egyptian Government says no more protests allowed. #Jan25 #Egypt #wtf half a minute ago via web

ajaroudi RT @shaxnjacksn: While the world waits for the collapse of authoritarian regimes, who will challenge the totalitarianism of liberal democracies? #jan25 half a minute ago via Seesmic for Android

# Minazekri_normal minazekri CNN: Egypt unleashes security forces to halt protests http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/01/26/egypt.pr... / #Jan25 half a minute ago via Echofon

bencnn Egyptian interior ministry warns zero tolerance for protests. May be too late for that. #Jan25 #Egypt less than a minute ago via Mobile Web

# Me_for_twitter_normal patrickdward RT @giantpandinha: "Residents remove the passwords from their wireless routers so protesters could go online" #Jan25 via @globalvoices http://is.gd/avf5Nf half a minute ago via web

abdullahali7 We will not stop and will do all it takes to bring this goverment and this president down #jan25 #egypt half a minute ago via web


# 28341_437611281604_593046604_6283827_7272739_n_normal khalawa69 ‎- Tahrir square free of protesters. Heavy Amn Markazy (army) prescence. Traffic practically unimpaired. #jan25 less than a minute ago via web

# Twitterprofilephoto_normal fustat R @khalawa69 On the run mohandeseen is filled with police. Cilantro and all cafes overrun with security forces #jan25 less than a minute ago via web

# 0b20e92_normal AnemosNaftilos RT @Fatlaimous: A revolution in Tunisia, rain and thunder in Jeddah. A revolution in Egypt, rain and thunder in Jeddah! I say it's tears of joy <3 #Jan25 less than a minute ago via web
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-11 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #125
141. I wonder how this is being reported in Iran? nt
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-11 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #141
148. "Egypt on its way to democracy"
'Egypt on its way to democracy'


Egypt is the largest regular recipient of conventional US military and economic aid after Israel.

North African countries -- foremost, Egypt -- are entering a democratic era despite US support for authoritarian regimes in those states, a political analyst says.


In an interview with Press TV, African policy analyst, Nii Akuetteh said North African countries are inspired by the Tunisian revolution to bring their dictatorial regimes down.

There are dictators many of whom are supported by the US for decades and now they are crumbling started by Tunisia, Akuetteh noted.

The analyst maintains that nobody can deny that the United States supports dictatorship in North Africa.

...

Thousands of Egyptians have taken to the streets in cities from the capital Cairo to Alexandria to protest the near-30-year rule of Mubarak for the second successive day on Wednesday.

Despite some 20,000 to 30,000 police being deployed in central Cairo, thousands of demonstrators marched to Tahrir Square on Tuesday, where they chanted in unison, "The people want the ouster of the regime."

The demonstrators also tore down posters of Mubarak, chanting, "Mubarak get lost," "Bread, liberty, dignity," and "We will follow Tunisia."

...


http://www.presstv.ir/detail/162037.html


Also http://www.presstv.ir/detail/162072.html
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-11 04:09 AM
Response to Original message
127. Complete crackdown on all protesters.
Edited on Wed Jan-26-11 04:22 AM by Catherina
# Img00354-20100907-1638_normal themuzi RT @bencnn: Madness in #Cairo. Restraint thrown to the wind. Complete crackdown on all protesters. Blasts from multiple directions. #Jan25 #Egypt half a minute ago via web

nU53r RT @ShmpOngO: confirmed : Cairo : a marchin protest is coming from Shubra around 30 000 protester there #jan25 less than a minute ago via web

worldpaulcarr RT @RBoydBarrett: Democracy can spread when people in Middle East rise up to demand social justice, and not when the West bombs millions of innocents #Jan25 less than a minute ago via web

farida904 RT @HerMaeness: Let us take a minute to laugh at those who thought that not covering the protests on TV will stop people from finding out about them. #Jan25 less than a minute ago via Snaptu

# Default_profile_5_normal AntiMubarak RT @Tallouza: I doubt they have prisons big enough to fit the will of the people #jan25 #Egypt less than a minute ago via web

# 4281777022_fea622342d_o-300x200_normal KnowledgeEmpire RT @HaninSh: RT @habibh: #Jan25 protesters diverting Police to fake venues through Social Media. Big Brother not being so smart but slowly catching on less than a minute ago via TweetDeck

kkarthiks RT @RBoydBarrett: The Western allies who claim to be the champions of democracy in the region have been remarkably silent on #Tunisia and #Egypt. #Hypocrites less than a minute ago via web

schestowitz ♺ @rysiek] Restaurants in Tahrir square are giving away food for free to protesters. More reasons to join the protest: Free meals #Jan25 less than a minute ago via identica



# Climate_scam_-images2_normal_normal LyndsayFarlow RT @bencnn: Police rounding up beating protesters on corniche near 6 October bridge...burnng tires blocking the road. #Jan25 #Egypt less than a minute ago via web
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-11 04:54 AM
Response to Original message
129. I remember traveling to Egypt on one of the first American tours there after Sadat took over...
Edited on Wed Jan-26-11 04:55 AM by cascadiance
from Nasser (who wasn't a U.S. ally earlier and tied more to the Soviets then). It was as a little kid back in the early 70's when we lived in the middle east then.

We had to fly in on Aeroflot (Soviet airline) to get there, since western airlines still didn't have flights scheduled going in and out of that country there just yet at that time.

I wonder now seeing what's going on today, if I saw the start of the Egyptians being friendly to the U.S., and am now seeing the door close on that whole time period of friendship with the U.S. that started then (hopefully not if the U.S. can start evolving its role in the middle east to be one that would be viewed more friendly to the peoples of that region.

Kind of depressing like a lot of things are right now...

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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-11 05:32 AM
Response to Reply #129
132. Depressing for sure. I don't think the Egyptians have been too amused by
the "long years of emergency rule by President Hosni Mubarak, under regulations that suspend most civil and human rights on grounds of national security." (Juan Cole today)

I envy you because I always dreamed of visiting Egypt.
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-11 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #132
145. Thanks for keeping us informed.
Be part of History.
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-11 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #145
146. You're welcome. It's fun sifting through all those twitters
it's like vicarious protesting in solidarity :hi:
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-11 07:43 AM
Response to Original message
137. Love this quote -
Edited on Wed Jan-26-11 07:44 AM by TBF
"This is an historic day in Egypt's history, because we have started to say 'no'," said Mohammed Saleh, who joined protesters Tuesday night in Cairo's Tahrir Square, the Egyptian capital's main interchange. "I'll tell my children someday that I was standing here in Tahrir Square."



Edited to add link to WSJ: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704698004...
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supernova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-11 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
143. Mubarak's family fled to UK?
I saw reports to that effect when I logged on in the 8ish hour, now I can't find anything?

Is this true?
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-11 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #143
149. US Embassy official denied this
Edited on Wed Jan-26-11 10:50 AM by Catherina
President Hosni Mubarak's family has not fled Egypt's rising, deadly political protests, an U.S. Embassy source in Cairo tells CBS News.

Rumors had been flying based on a report by the U.S.-based Arabic website Akhbar al-Arab that the Mubaraks had become scared by the Egyptian protests seeking to oust the president in much the same way Tunisian protestors succeeded in doing recently.

Akhbar al-Arab and other sources had been saying that both Gamal Mubarak, the president's son and possible successor, and President Hosni Mubarak's wife had fled Cairo for London. However an embassy source told CBS News that there is no reason to believe that this is true. Gamal was educated in London and travels a lot, but the U.S. has no reason to believe that the family has fled.

...

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503543_162-20029614-503543....



Who knows. If they haven't fled, I'm sure they're packed and stealing gold.
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-11 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
150. Live Video, ALL Internet access from #Shubra District in Cairo, Amazing photo
Edited on Wed Jan-26-11 11:03 AM by Catherina
jwildeboer ♺ @exiledsurfer: RT @ahmadtaha: #egypt #jan25 Gov't blocked ALL Internet access from #Shubra District in Cairo #jan26 Confirmed


Live Al-Jazeera TV coverage:
http://bestfree-tv-live.com/news-channels/276-%D9%82%D9...
Things are hopping right now.




O Mubarak, you're going down, down, down!
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