The Boomers are being forced out of the labor market and stripped of

[Skidmore]

retirement funds and Social Security at the same time.

I'm referencing this thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x258172#260654

The last time I was employed was in a temporary job in the year 2007. I am a Boomer. I no longer get either interviews or rejection letters. I have many friends in the same age group and circumstances.

I just wanted to bring this up because I think this is how the government and corporations have decided they will deal with a number of economic or labor issues. IOW, this is a policy. You can start younger workers at lower wages and rework/eliminate the retirement "pension" while destroying the health care system. This gets corporations and the government out of obligations to a whole generation.

[jtown1123]

1. Have you also noticed the push to demonize boomers in editorials?

USA Today loves shitting on people who are already down. Go figure.

[Skidmore]

3. Yes, and it is done on these forums too.

We've cared for our parents and raised our children and sometimes our grandchildren these days. I have friends with grown children back at home with their children in tow, all being supported by the wages or retirement money my friends bring in. We voluntarily paid extra into Social Security so that it would be available to us when we needed it. Our retirement plans have been nibbled away or sucked up entirely by banks and funds.

[MedicalAdmin]

136. I think many boomers are self serving navel gazers.

Disclosure - I am gen X.


Having said that I support all middle class and poor workers and citizens/ people. Any editorial pitting one generation against another or one race against another, etc., is nothing more than the enabling class doing the bidding of the ownership class and trying to disctract us while they steal, mail street, wall street, the banks, city hall, the schools and anything else they can get away with.

It IS us vs. them but them is the rich bastards. Save your knives and guns, pitchforks and torches for those who truly deserve it. We must band together.

I stand with my boomer brothers and sister. I trust that they will return the favor some day.

[decidedlyso]

160. I'm waiting for them to riot. Getting close to that.

[trud]

145. you bet it's done in these forums.

Time and again I see posts in DU and elsewhere implying an older person must be feeble-minded or incompetent or is "taking a job" away from a younger person, like we're all supposed to go out in the hills and die, I suppose. I haven't been able to get a job that pays any decent amount of money since my mid-fifties and was told several times to my face by younger interviewers that I was "too old to fit in" and so on.

[Skidmore]

152. I went back to retrain at a local community college. When the

program was finished, the job counselor sat me down and told me I should dye the gray out of my hair and cut a significant portion of my work experience from my resume. Cutting out that work experience he deemed as extraneous would have left such a hole in my resume that it would look as though I had done nothing for 20 years.

[CTyankee]

167. I'm now retired but I long ago had deleted lots of work history on my resume.

No dates on graduations. No other telltale information.

If I hadn't inherited some money from my mother I would be in a terrible fix now. And I worked for 34 years...

[TicketyBoo]

173. You DO know that age discrimination

is against the law? It's a protected class. Take a hidden tape recorder to your interviews, and sue the bastards!

[trud]

200. TicketyBoo

Good luck with that. Do you know how much lawyers cost?

By the way, when I was laid off by HP, I had a choice - sign an agreement not to sue and get six months' pay, or leave with zero.

[demigoddess]

10. Rush Limbaugh has been trashing the boomers since about

1990 something, and he is one!!! this is nothing new. They are going to use the boomer generation to blame for all the bad things they want to do. Such as destroy social security, medicare, and probably even the bad economy.

[CubicleGuy]

85. Somebody needs to point out...

... that Limbaugh IS a boomer himself.

[Mojeoux]

95. And.....Rush is in a Union nt

[right2bfree]

107. You mean the guy that flies to child-sex tourism sites like the Dom. Rep. with Viagra? nt

[CLANG]

161. Now, THAT HAS NEVER BEEN PROVEN!!!

He could have taken a cruise ship to the Dominican Republic. :rofl:

[Mojeoux]

96. We Boomers were the "Shock Troops," of the new millenial consciousness.

We were like astronauts looking for the truth.

[formercia]

2. We are expendable

They made their fortunes from the sweat of our brows. Look what they are doing to the troops. GenX is next.

[xxqqqzme]

4. It has already started w/ GenX.

Those 'kids' are now closing in on 40. The true 'trickle down' economics has begun. Each successive generation will be weaker and weaker. My grandchild will have precious few options available to him.

[shanti]

7. the only generation that has had

it all from cradle to grave, has been my parents' generation, the children who lived thru the depression. one generation, al everyone else is screwed :(

[SheilaT]

18. Bingo!

I used to read old Life Magazine. It started in November, 1936, and a University I was attending some years back had bound issues starting with Vol I, number 1. I read them sequentially, and over a period of about three or four years made it up to the end of March, 1945. I learned a lot from reading Life, and one thing I noticed was that the inclination to spend definitely afflicted the generation you just referenced, the ones who went through the Depression and WWII. Yes, they did suffer and they did sacrifice, no doubt about it, but then they entered that incredible post-war prosperity and everything they touched turned to gold. They bought homes which increased phenomenally in value. Many of them worked in jobs where they got pensions when they retired, as well as social security.

I don't want to begrudge that generation what they earned, but not all of it was earned. A lot was just luck of demographics. I'm a Boomer myself. I consider myself quite fortunate in that I never had a real career, so at this point in my life the fact that all I can get are entry-level jobs isn't all that terrible. Unlike those whose had good jobs, good careers, I get interviews and I get hired, even at the ripe old age of 60 plus. But those who worked at some kind of job for twenty or thirty years and had gotten pretty much to the top of their profession and pay scale and now have nothing -- they don't deserve what's happened to them.

[robdogbucky]

22. A friend did part of her PhD

Evaluating Life and other national magazines' part in shaping/reflecting America's trends/moods in those halcyon years of magazines, before television. Her focus was on the role of women and how their image was transformed from being a part of mostly rural, almost communal, self-reliant family units into the nuclear family with stay at home moms (homemaker I believe was one of the terms the social engineers introduced in these magazines when marketing) with all the modern consumer items to make the modern nuclear mother and nuclear home complete. Complete with those products GE and Sears had ready in their pipeline.

Ah, then there's the cold war. That is another of those phenomena that had telling effects on molding the American psyche.

Boomers need to find a way to make themselves an irresistible target of the mass-marketers.

Any ideas out there? Is this fodder for a separate thread? I recall when reading those self-declaring and other survey threads on this board that there is a large demographic here on DU for such a discussion to interest the majority here.


Hands off my Social Security!
Hands off Latin America!


Just my dos centavos

robdogbucky

[Bragi]

45. A question

I'm reading your words and everything makes sense to me, and then you write: Boomers need to find a way to make themselves an irresistible target of the mass-marketers.

What exactly do you mean by that? Why should I care about attracting the attention of mass marketers, since generally, they never do anyone but themselves any good?

[robdogbucky]

50. Trying to answer...

really I was brainstorming when I posted, but I think I was identifying with what/whom is valued by the free-marketers, or capitalists that control the economy and who is highly regarded in that system because of their consumption (no pun intended). If/when they decide that a particular demographic is a valuable market, they will shower that group with beneficial legislation, offers, benefits, encouragements, products, incentives, opportunities, etc.

I realize that Boomers/seniors, are marketed to in various ways already, but if seniors were valued more, like as consumers of various stuff there would be more consideration given to their needs. Some seniors have disposable income and are single, no? In that aspect we could consider them as the gay population is considered and in some ways marketed to as they are seen to have more disposable income for things like vacations, housing, transportation. I see that demographic (seniors/Boomers) being seen as merely consumers of medicine/medical services, etc. They are no doubt already targeted by investment services (I recently saw both Wall St. and Wall St.2 to remind me of the fleecing of seniors by same) and other industries that see them as consumers of more than just medicine/medical services, etc. I was trying to think of ways Boomers could be respected more instead of discarded, ignored and disrespected.

Those housewives marketed to in those Life Magazines of the fifties were seen as decision-makers for how the family income was spent. I used to live in the Valley of the Sun in Arizona lo' those many years ago, and saw the extent of retirees with the where with all to consume, consume, consume. This system is based on marketing and consumers. Nothing much else. In that light I was throwing it out there.

Any ideas?



Hands off my Social Security!
Hands off Latin America!


Just my dos centavos


robdogbucky

[jtuck004]

77. I wanted to read your answer before I wrote...

I think, if that is a solution, it will be an utter failure.

To be a target of marketers you have to have money to spend, but we have tens of millions of these folks who
have worked the last job they will ever have. There are many who won't see anything until they apply early for
social security. Many have spent all the value in their homes, got themselves into credit contracts they should
never have gotten into, and raided their pensions on the idea that things were going to get better soon. When
they do get jobs it will be at Dollar General, or something like that, which doesn't allow for much in the way
of disposable income.

The real problem is that their next greatest consumption will be that of health care, and we do such a sucky job
of providing that in this country that it is very likely to become a damn nightmare soon. Medical work, for the most
part, does nothing to create wealth for large numbers of people. It actually saps wealth, and requires much subsidy
from government agencies. But given that this economy is likely to show little to no real improvement for at least the
next 10 to 20 years, the greatest opportunity for consumption is likely to turn into a big cost that is "fixed" by
denying access to decent primary care, and a lot of hospitalization, to a lot of people.

This will change if some labor-intensive industry appears to offer really good jobs, (say $35/hr) to millions of people,
especially if it involves something using your mind, but I am not holding my breath.

I really think the only salvation that boomers might have is to cooperate in buying up assets they can afford and operate them for the benefit of a cooperative. It is the only way they might have a change to effectively compete, given the lack of programs of any appropriate size from the government.

[snappyturtle]

133. Yes, I think you have hit on something with forming cooperatives!

The adage of 'strength comes in numbers' or something like that, is true.

I formerly thought that being a boomer was a stroke of luck; I no longer think that. I'm afraid, truly afraid of my future. I, and my 'kids',now in their thirties, have pretty much figured out that the best scenario is self-employment. It's the only answer that makes sense to me. I was self-employed for years and for reasons too complicated to explain here am no longer, however, I was much happier then. I had to work harder but the satisfaction level sky-rocketed.

[robdogbucky]

176. I didn't say it or anything else was a solution

but nice try.

What I did say was that I was brainstorming. I know the healthcare situation in this country.

Let's discuss the idea of cooperatives more extensively. I would like to read your ideas expanding on that. A while ago, over ten years now, I had a discussion with some friends of the same age, veterans, parents, grandparents, empty-nesters all now, that we Boomers, many of whom were hippies to some degree and had some experience at cooperative or communal living arrangements, would be a good fit to do it again, now as a necessity as seniors under siege. Some kind of cooperative living arrangement to reduce costs and to pool resources.

We discussed that we all had different skills and different life and professional experiences. We cannot rely on our kids to bail us out. Rather it would be kinda great if we could revive some of what we learned from our group living experiences in the '60s. We had carpenters, pharmacists, writers, managers, accountants, PhDs with no discernible skills, etc. From that polyglot we reckoned we could reach negotiated agreements on tasks, duties, contingencies, etc.

I think I would like to discuss this all more.




Dear SOS Clinton and President Obama:

Your democracy is killing us

The People of Afghanistan





rdb

[jtuck004]

194. Sorry, I didn't mean to accuse you of having the answer.

I just think that if we Boomers are going to save ourselves (anyone else that needs to survive is free to join) and we have to think about power. Consumers used to support the community, from about 1945 to about the 70's, but a series of events, bad judgments, and flat-out unrestrained greed has resulted in our becoming "consumers of debt". It's almost fitting that we are now led around by the nose by the Merchants of DEATH DEBT at the investment banks and other centers of power. We are now weaker and behind many countries in developing our human resources. Its almost ridiculous. We still have to think about consumers and markets, but it seems that companies where the employees own the business and make key decisions are not only competitive but they decide on whether their jobs will be sold. I do wonder how such a business model could scale, but that's for later.

For example, Springfield Remanufacturing at http://www.srcreman.com/ is an "Open Book Company", employee-owned and operated. The former employees bought it when International Harvester laid them all off. It's grown since then, and you can read about their philosophy from the links on their website.

Their output seems competitive, efficient, quick. They teach everyone the books, what their value is to the company. People who have joined have done pretty well, and some still have decent jobs today. They have spun off companies, something that manufacturing is particulary good at. There are other such companies. Not without troubles, but most still have jobs and make their own decisions.

It seems that Boomers, who have some resources (and some do, or could help get them) should buy small businesses and work to employ each other in an efficient and competitive manner, maybe even have an organization that works on spin-offs or finding other opportunities to grow larger. Teach neighbors about the need to create local and sustainable economies. (that whole community re-education part is tough, but the Boomers had people who excelled at raising awareness in the community. I think they could show others that any wealth they don't own will almost always have conduits that take it to very wealthy people or countries other than this one. More importantly, out of the community).

That would do on a small level. To do anything really large would take tens of trillions of dollars, necessitating government intervention. That may or may not happen, but it doesn't mean one couldn't do something on a smaller scale for a few people. Then a few more.

[valerief]

154. Boomers are the target of Big Pharma. nt

[robdogbucky]

170. Or maybe you didn't read what I wrote...

"...I realize that Boomers/seniors, are marketed to in various ways already,...

[SheilaT]

148. It may well be a good topic for an entire forum.

I can carry on for hours about what I learned from reading old Life Magazine. What I got from the ads was at least as good as what I got from the articles. I'll just toss out this one nugget: it's easy, in hindsight, to see that the Civil Rights movement was going to occur, because among the things you learn is that African Americans (at that point often the children or grandchildren of freed slaves) because of the war can now for the first time ever get jobs that pay a decent wage. Any thoughtful person ought to have figured out that there would be no going back.

If our PhD friend is on DU, maybe she could PM me. I would love to talk with her about the topic.

Here's another thing: I was born in 1948, so I'm a Boomer. Until the outbreak of WWII, the world I was reading about was a foreign country. All of a sudden it became the world I knew. So it would be very interesting to see how someone who is now 40, or no 20, would react. How long would it take for the world in the magazine to become a familiar one?

[robdogbucky]

172. No, she is not on these forums as far as I know

and honestly, I haven't talked to her or her husband in about 10 years. She was involved in the military base closings of the Poppy Bush/Clinton era though. Remember that? How things change.

I am happy that there is an interest in a separate thread for the topic, and let's start one. Hopefully the ideas there might give birth to new activism. But we do need to determine if there is enough anger to support either a new candidate or a new party that better suits our views and needs.

The whole topic of magazines and advertising came up in the old book "Hidden Persuaders," which was a seminal study of what the TV series Mad Men exemplifies. The consumer is manipulated and directed to specific products. In Hidden Persuaders there is a lot of discussion about subliminal advertising. If the product is so good then why would they have to resort to hidden persuaders?

I was born in '49. That is a great question you ask "it would be very interesting to see how someone who is now 40, or no 20, would react. How long would it take for the world in the magazine to become a familiar one?"

Just glad to continue the discussion.




Dear SOS Clinton and President Obama:

Thanks for nothing

The People of Honduras


rdb

[james0tucson]

153. But do you live a 1940s lifestyle?

How big is your house? How many cars do you have? Do you have a television or a telephone? Do you use electricity for more than just cooking and lighting? How many time per decade do you buy new clothes? I am sure that I could live a 1940s lifestyle on a third of my salary, let alone on a single income. But we move the "lifestyle" goalpost along with everything else, so there are no fair comparisons.

[valerief]

155. No one can do that. The Earth is more polluted. We're more polluted.

We have different medical needs now.

[Doremus]

165. Just for kicks you should check out today's wages vs. those in the 40s-70s

In today's dollars.

Then come back and tell us how easy it is to live "a 40s lifestyle" on 1/3 of your 2011 salary.

[TicketyBoo]

174. You are not describing my parents

who lived through the Depression. Dad had a job all the way through it, unlike most people, but the Depression scared the heck out of my folks, a lasting trauma, and they were always very frugal. Gross generalizations are just that. This one certainly does not describe my parents who did not "have it all." Ever.

[tsuki]

162. That is true and not true. Actually, rather than divide by generation, it

is better to divide by experience.

My aunts grew to adulthood during the years of the Great Depression. Such an oral history I have from them. Better than anything that I have ever seen in a documentary. This was the Great Depression generation.

My Mother was born in 1927 and grew to adulthood during WWII, the Big One. While Mother "remembered" the depression, her accounts seem to echo my aunts', if you get what I mean. She remembers the lanterns, but also the radio (rural electrification.) She remembers being poor, but everyone was poor. If you wanted to get her talking about her personal experiences, you talked about WWII, the Big One, the rationing, shortages, women in the workforce, not seeing or sometimes hearing from husbands and brothers for years. The shared sacrifice. And then, Korea.

The generation born in the late 1930's, we once called the Tyktovs. Too young Korea, to old Vietnam. This is the generation that benefited from the two previous groups, altho you would not believe it to hear them talk. They are the original bootstrap gen, the genesis of the Me meme. They received all the benes from the previous groups, GI Bill, company pensions, company health care, social security and medicare, etc. without thinking about it.

They entered a depleted workforce as the smallest population generation. All the work that the unions and the Democrats did to help Americans was forgotten, discounted. They got where they were because they had bootstraps. Think Tom Brokaw, calling every night on his tv program for his tax cuts, then after he got them complaining that this generation has not "sacrificed" for the war effort. Always trying to rebrand himself as the part of the "greatest generation".

The Boomers entered the workforce at a time of social turmoil, few jobs, an unpopular war and civil unrest. The drop out gen was not so much dropped out, as could not find a job. The hippy punching began in force in the 1980s. It was necessary to turn on of the most outspoken, turbulent generations, and make it The Silenced Generation. To paraphrase Emperor Showa, they needed to put the giant to sleep.

There are several problems with the Boomers that are flying under the radar. The 401Ks, which were depleted using secretly skimmed fees and investments in bubbles, should be investigates, but won't be at this point. It is one of the largest political/financial scandals being ignored.

Then the Boomers started investing in the stock market. This gen is the most heavily invested since the 1920's. This is the year that the Boomers start pulling from the stock market to restructure to income producing. Imagine interest rates being so low. Other than a few articles written about ten years ago, I have not seen any more about this other than Wall Street trying to grab one trillion dollars to make up for the short fall when Boomers pull out. Another problem is that the political/financial establishment has embezzled the entire Social Security Trust Fund. That is why it is a problem NOW, not in 2040.

I think that the Progressive/Libertarian Alliance that is being spoken of will bridge the Boomers to the Under 30's is scaring the political/financial cabal.

Sorry for the long post. These are just some things that have been rattling around in my mind for the past couple of years. Except for Brokaw, I have always considered him the poster boy of the Tyktovs.

[defendandprotect]

57. Exactly, multible jobs, multible layouts -- and now NOT invested in any pension plan ....

while they're cutting off Social Security at the other end --

and health care --

So we're going to have people with all kinds of health problems keeping

them from work, as well!!

We have to unite the employed and the unemployed --

evidently the total on unemployment, including long term unemployed is now 20% --

saw something on that today --

of course, in many areas much higher -- Michigan --

and AA communities -- heaven only knows the further damage being done there!!

[cascadiance]

5. Yep, unemployed again myself since mid December...

And we're at the age where we and our families are those they don't want to take care of. They'd rather have healthier young 'uns! My mom had a stroke on Christmas day when we tried to celebrate Christmas, and my aunt is having surgery today for cancer too... I had a CT scan for a condition I have this last Friday too. Good I still have COBRA now...

[Dappleganger]

32. So sorry to hear about your family...

my prayers and positive vibes are going your way, if that's alright. I lost my mother to a stroke over 2 years ago, she was only 66. We found out last week that one of my aunt's cancer has returned, and today we found out that my cousin has non-hodgkins lymphoma (mom to twin toddler girls). When it rains it pours, unfortunately. Hang in there my friend.

:hug:

[Enthusiast]

111. Sorry about your many issues.

[Johonny]

8. The American work force doesn't vote as a united block

thus the us/them politics has allowed them to be severely hurt over the past 25 years. The pain cuts through more than just boomers.

[ljm2002]

16. That is it in a nutshell...

...and the Democratic Party has turned its back on unions and the labor movement, so there is no focus for them to vote as a bloc. Thus, they / we are susceptible to divisive social issues, which are of course exploited all too well by the ruling elites.

[robdogbucky]

23. All part of the necon wet dream

to completely dismantle the New Deal and all the prosperity for the middle class it spawned.

Unions, free public schools, Social Security, etc.

None of these fit into the plantation mentality of the neocons.



Hands off my Social Security!
Hands off Latin America!



Just my dos centavos

robdogbucky

[defendandprotect]

56. One Repug last week wanted to change child labor laws -- !!

[Patchuli]

66. And as if they know what they would be creating,

they continue to dismantle the American Dream. Exactly what do these freaks of nature envision for this country, this world????

[haele]

198. They want to get rid of excess population. Those that aren't productive.

They always have thought that there were just too many plebes and proles around wanting a chance to "better" themselves.
Slaves are a better investment, you know. You can always get rid of them when they start costing more than they produce.
It's all about the money, you know. The arts, education, talent - money's king. Money gives you "worth".
Jay Gould, the investment "king" of the 19th Century:
"I can hire half the working class to kill the other half..."
And that's what "they" - the upper 1% - think of the rest of us. If you're not them, you're a worker. After all, you can always find a doctor, or an engineer, a small investor or entrepreneur, or some other fool that thinks his or her education and middle class upbringing makes them more special than a plumber, a factory worker, or a retail salesman.

Dam' Mammon worshipers and their sycophants. Even though most of them would probably call themselves "Christian" and hang around with their pet priests and preachers, they're still worshiping Mammon.

Haele

[Enthusiast]

112. "plantation mentality"

Says it all right there.

[CLANG]

163. Nothing wrong with plantations when you live in a banana republic!

[RKP5637]

92. We need our own party, "The Old Democratic Party!" n/t

[SheilaT]

19. You've hit upon another important thing.

Management has been able for many years now to divide the working class, make them think unions are totally villainous, and that their own interests are allied with management. It's not. Workers of the world unite! Gosh, that sounds familiar somehow.

[defendandprotect]

58. We need to get buttons out there -- "We are all labor" -- maybe Dems would do it?

:rofl:

[Octafish]

68. Impoverished people don't give a fig about Democracy or the Republic.

And they certainly won't notice the Constitution being shredded and tossed into the burn bag.

It's like Firesign Theatre predicted in Americathon: we'll be fortunate to find a car to squat in.

[robdogbucky]

178. Proctor & Bergman

love that fucking movie, Octafish.

Especially the parts about the Native Americans being the wealthiest class and Israel finding oil

Did you ever go to Wiki and see how many prophetic items were included in this 1970s sendup?

Lots



Dear SOS Clinton and President Obama:


Thanks for nothing

The People of Honduras



rdb

[rko_24550]

88. +100

[1776Forever]

6. My 62 year-old husband recently took a job cleaning offices.....

He was very happy to find it and he is an excellent worker at whatever is given to him - take my word for it! So when he got the job he was surprised but very nice and helpful to the many African immigrants he found there along with Mexican immigrants (weather they were legal or not). He found that most of them knew nothing about what a union was and they didn't know their rights and he tried to get them to learn more about the union. But in the end he gave up because they just didn't think the union would do anything for them. Now he has found that the company has continued to pile up more and more work with less workers and they only give them 20 minutes (1 break) for 8 hours for "lunch" which is permitted in our State. So in the end he is leaving the job because he feels that even after notifying the union himself he has not received any good news about the situation and the union said they couldn't do anything until next year. So here we have immigrants along with the other workers who are brought in and paid very little and a union that is trying just to hang on. Only in America as they say. Sad for everyone involved here!

[Major Hogwash]

9. 15 years ago I met a man who was 73 years old who worked at Walmart for 2 years!

Because he said that his retirement pension from the state and his SS didn't cover all his bills.
He had worked for the state for over 24 years with the highway department.

His daughter worked at the same store.
Alongside his 19 year old granddaughter!!!

I could hardly believe it.

[1776Forever]

15. My husband worked with a man who was 75 and could work rings around the younger guys! Age doesn't

matter really unless it is very physical. There are a lot of older great workers out there.

[Dappleganger]

24. Indeed, but the point is that they should not have to be working

at that age to make ends meet. Those jobs should be for teenagers and those just getting into the work force. We have lowered our expectations so much in this society with regard to employment, it is sad.

[BonnieJW]

137. Oh, but this country

wnats all those younger workers to go into the military to fight the endless wars. It will happen, too, because kids coming out of high school and college can't find anything and wind up going back home where their parents and grandparents are laid off. They have to go into the military to eat.

[WinkyDink]

26. Not the point, if it is the elders' decision and not out of real need.

[1776Forever]

41. True but that 75 year-old I refered to wanted to work and did it well. n/t

[WinkyDink]

48. I can only hope I'm as spry!

[defendandprotect]

60. Most elderely are only working BECAUSE there is real need .... !!

[Bragi]

42. That's simply untrue for most people

I'm what you'd call a 60-year old semi-retired knowledge worker, and I can tell you without a doubt that I was a lot better at researching, analyzing and creative thinking 15 years ago than I am now.

Sure, I have experience and maybe even a bit of wisdom, and this helps me get by, but I don't think it is at all accurate to think that older workers are every bit as capable as younger workers. It just isn't so for most people.

[trud]

147. Bragi

I'm in my late sixties, and I disagree. I think I'm every bit as mentally capable and smart as I was years ago, and that goes for my former co-workers as well.

I'm a heck of a lot more knowledgeable than many younger workers I encountered. The dumbing down of our educational system is frightening.

[1776Forever]

183. Thank you! It is a personal choice! Everyone is different. n/t

[1776Forever]

182. I didn't say that - I said THIS man choose to do that! Jesh! n/t

[defendandprotect]

59. The unions certainly knew what was happening to them ...

certainly the teachers' union now knows it's under attack -

Can they fight back -- ?

Why didn't these unions fight back -- ?

Of course, there was huge infiltration of unions and corruption of them

by elites -- and Mafia.

[snot]

81. I'm mystified, too. E.g., DOES the teachers' union know?

If so, it's response so far certainly hasn't been very visible.

[defendandprotect]

149. At this stage, so many of them are losing their jobs, that it's probably more about

trying to hold the job than to protect the union --

if you noticed what Rahm said in the article below, there was "union skepticism" to his

"reform" of public education!! Obama/Duncan are pushing charter schools and destroying

public education -- presume union leaders knew what was coming and either didn't have the

power or weren't willing to fight it?


Here it is ...


Rahm .... crowing about preserving "private health care industry" ... business s/b grateful!

”In a Thursday interview, White House chief of staff Rahm Emanuel argued that rather than recoiling against Obama, business leaders should be grateful for his support on at least a half-dozen counts: his advocacy of greater international trade and education reform open markets despite union skepticism; his rejection of calls from some quarters to nationalize banks during the financial meltdown; the rescue of the automobile industry; the fact that the overhaul of health care

preserved the private delivery system;

the fact that billions in the stimulus package benefited business with lucrative new contracts, and that financial regulation reform will take away the uncertainty that existed with a broken, pre-crash regulatory apparatus.

http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=B2F85DDF-18...



The whole thing is disgusting, in fact --

:nuke:

[1776Forever]

185. I wondered the same thing. They told my husband since they just got in they wanted to hold off until

next year. He told me last night one of the other ladies just quit too. It is ridiculous what they ask these people to do with no breaks!

[Enthusiast]

114. Thanks for contributing your story.

I love the handle -1776Forever. Creative!

[1776Forever]

184. Thanks - When you read about our "founding Fathers" true beliefs it is truly wonderful! n/t

[jeff47]

11. Not quite

All the plans currently on the table to "reform" Social Security exempt baby boomers. We Gen-X'ers will reap that reward.

Unfortunately, a significant portion of boomers & seniors think that this is a good idea.

[ljm2002]

17. The reason baby boomers have been exempted in these plans...

...is to make it easier to pass them. I.e., another "divide and conquer" strategy.

Interestingly, though, a huge percentage of the overall population does not want to see any cuts in Social Security.

We'll see how it plays out.

[shanti]

63. and it's not even ALL boomers

that they want to exempt. boomers born from 1955 on are targeted too. divide and conquer. :(

[Hannah Bell]

100. a significant portion think it's a good idea? prove that claim. i haven't heard anything like that

[jeff47]

125. Not all boomers are liberals

And they've hated Social Security since they were Nixon youth.

Keep in mind 'a significant portion' is not a majority. It's about as large as the 'keep your government out of my Medicare!' group.

[Le Taz Hot]

150. Really?

You want to cite a source for that?

[old mark]

12. K&R- It was policy several decades ago when I was working in a large

corporation's engineering department...fire older engineers/designers who are getting near retirement, hire new grads with no experience but newer education, at lower salary fewer sick days, lower med insurance costs. This has been pretty common in some industries since the 1980's, and was happening to some people in their 40's and early 50's.

I believe it may have become fairly standard practice...I recall reading of several CEO's saying they would never be hiring any of their laid off workers back again, and one who stated that his next batch of new hires were "now in 6th grade"...this was way back in 2010...

I am sure they have been planning this shit for some time.
Here's a link to an article in Industry Times from 2006:

http://forums.industryweek.com/showthread.php?t=424


mark

[LibDemAlways]

20. My engineer husband was let go a year ago at 59. Took him

6 months before he finally hooked up with a former co-worker who helped him land a job in his field - at a 40% pay cut. Employers are taking mean advantage of the high unemployment rate by offering low wages to everybody. They want the experience, and in this shitful economy, they don't have to pay for it.

[Dappleganger]

25. They certainly are.

My husband is a mechanical engineer in the pharma industry, he's been laid off three different times and we expect it to happen again. Most of the ones being laid off were older, too. All that education and cost-savings for what, nothing?

[LibDemAlways]

34. Nothing - you've got it. The company that laid my husband off is huge -

close to 200,000 employees worldwide. He gave them 20 years of hard work and a commitment to excellence. Instead of helping him transfer to another division when his project ended last year, they just handed him a pink slip.

He went to a job fair sponsored by another employer who told him they were only looking for new college grads. No doubt those people will be replaced in a few years. The throwaway workforce has become a reality.

[Dappleganger]

36. Throwaway workforce, indeed.

Your story sounds eerily similar, unfortunately. :(

[Enthusiast]

116. It certainly doesn't do much to

encourage young people to take up a career in engineering. You know, considering the cost of education and all.

[LibDemAlways]

135. You've got that right. My daughter, who is a senior in high school,

has a friend who has been accepted to the engineering program at Columbia. She's a very high achiever who has a scholarship, but I'm not sure the type of job at the salary she'll be expecting will be waiting for her when she graduates. It took my husband many years to work his way up the salary ladder, and having to regress down that far at close to retirement age was a huge blow. And he's one of the lucky ones. Thousands of engineers his age have no job at all.

[Enthusiast]

115. Plus one.

"shitful" lol

[defendandprotect]

61. It began happening immediately after 11/22/63 --

[robdogbucky]

13. Even fierce advocate trashes Boomers

THE time has come, Senator Barack Obama says, for the baby boomers to get over themselves.

In taking the first steps toward a presidential candidacy last week, Mr. Obama, who was born in 1961 and considers himself a member of the post-boomer generation, said Americans hungered for “a different kind of politics,” one that moved beyond the tired ideological battles of the 1960s.

To make his point, Mr. Obama, a Democrat from Illinois in his first term in the Senate, announced the formation of his presidential exploratory committee in a video streamed on his Web site. He is tieless and relaxed and oh so cool.

Mr. Obama calculates that Americans of all ages are sick of the feuding boomers and ready to turn to the generation that came of age after Vietnam, after the campus culture wars between freaks and straights, and after young people had given up on what überboomer Hillary Rodham Clinton (who made her own announcement on the Web yesterday) called in a 1969 commencement address a search for “a more immediate, ecstatic and penetrating mode of living....”

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/21/weekinreview/21broder.html


So here we are. Trying to deal with a president that feels that the civil rights movement, the movement that stopped a war and changed the way gender rights are parsed in this country is simply "the tired ideological battles of the 1960s."

My oh my. We have been sold down the proverbial river. On a what to do now level, let's organize, we still have the numbers, eh? We could form that elusive third party. We might even have enough grassroots members to raise significant money one dollar at a time, something that fierce advocate to every advantage of in 2008.

I am afraid we will soon have to fight for everything in this "democracy."



Hands off my Social Security!
Hands off Latin America!



Just my dos centavos


robdogbucky

[DURHAM D]

40. I read that article (and printed it) at the time. Still have it on my desk.

I instantly understood that he is not a Democrat.

I couldn't figure out why others (the so called progressives) didn't get it. Still don't.

[spooky3]

52. by most accounts, Pres. Obama IS a boomer, whether he likes it or not

not everyone agrees on the definition, but most users of the term include 1961 in the baby boom years.

[Beacool]

79. He must have forgotten that if it weren't for the 60s he probably wouldn't be in the WH.

He also must have forgotten that he is a member of the baby boomer generation too.

This is also the man who praised Reagan and called him transcendental. But hey, he's such a "progressive".........

:eyes:

[Art_from_Ark]

90. You are so right

The '60s-- Voting Rights Act, Civil Rights Act

[Enthusiast]

119. I'm with you.

:eyes:

[Enthusiast]

118. Good post. nt

[PatSeg]

138. I remember that very well

I was furious at the time and felt that was a bigger gaffe than his "clinging to their guns and religion" remark. All the decades flashed in front of me showing the incredible progress we have made, progress that made it possible for Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton to run for the president of the United States. Boomers are a generation that one does not want to dismiss lightly. They have experience and they VOTE religiously. You can't become president without their support.

[EFerrari]

14. What in the world do they expect us to do?

Maybe I should start sewing a tent.

[WinkyDink]

28. "No, Mr. Bond; I expect you to DIE!"

[EFerrari]

30. LOL

[jwirr]

21. I am not disputing your op but when it comes to boomers I have

been watching what happens as the time line advances.

When you were all born we focused on baby products.

When you reached kindergarten we focused on elementary schools and many new ones where built. When you reached middle school the same thing happened. High schools too. Then you all hit college they started expanding.

Then came the jobs market and that is when things started going down hill for all of you. Not enough good paying jobs and just in time for the outsourcing.

Now you are reaching the retirement age and we would have had to build quite a few nursing homes to hold all of you but someone came up with the idea of home health so most can now stay in their own homes.

But there are still not enough jobs and with the mess our economy is in not enough good jobs paying into social security (at good rates) and income taxes to sustain the programs that were meant of all of us.

So there is the rub. You are absolutely correct but we did not mean for it to happen that way. When all of you were being born we wanted the best for you. But behind the scenes were the corporations and the powers that be who wanted it all for themselves. And in this it is not just the baby boomers - it is all of us who are f**ked.

[WinkyDink]

29. Well, we've always been the vanguard! ;-)

[bettyellen]

54. "so most can now stay in their own homes. " HA HA HA. No.

they shove you in a nusing home and bleed you for every cent till you die. home health care is woefully inadequate for most of the afed, and programs are slashed everywhere you go.

[jwirr]

86. Nursing homes are for intensive care now. The government will not

pay for someone to stay in them unless they need that type of care. I worked with the Social Services unit that did the screenings for years and the goal is to save money by keeping people out of the nursing home as long as possible. Now that may not be true in all states but it is in mine. The laws that govern this idea are federal laws so I think they are supposed to be doing this in all states. I also realize that some nursing homes may be doing exactly what you are talking about if you have money. Most of us do not. One of the statistics that came across my desk while I was working indicated that only a small percentage of seniors even end up in a nursing home before they die and that it takes about 6 months to use up the average savings before they have no money to be taken. They are then paid for by Medicaid. Medicare does not pay for nursing homes.

[delightfulstar]

108. The red tape is a nightmare....

My sister is going through hell right now trying to get my mother into assisted living. My mother will be 73 this month, and is experiencing a lot of cognitive issues that are consistent with possible early-stage Alzheimer's, but it's too early to nail down a solid diagnosis, so they're reluctant to allow her to go into a facility without a probationary period of some kind. She's at the point where it's a risk to her well-being to live alone - she has trouble managing basic things like money, constantly misplaces things, and is having some speech and memory issues; she can't drive anymore...she actually drove her car through her living room window a few years ago, so that was the end of that. The one definite option that is being offered is in-home care from a visiting nurse, but I'm not sure if that's adequate, given the situation. My father died 10 years ago; he had AD, but actually had cancer for the last few years of his life, and there was a mountain of medical bills from his illness, which forced her to file Chapter 7 several years ago. She is a retired government employee, so she has some medical coverage and retirement pay, plus her SS, and that's it. Medicaid is a real pain to get, and my sister is fighting to get my mother some help, but keeps hitting a proverbial brick wall. I wish I could help more, but my husband and I are 1800 miles away and have three school-aged kids of my own to take care of, so it's not easy to do from where I'm at.

[jwirr]

188. She does sound like she needs more help than in home care. Take the

home care nurse and let her document the need - it will help prove the need. The real problem for persons with Medicaid is that you really do have to be poor before you qualify. That means giving up a lot of things we take for granted.

[bettyellen]

127. d if you have a house or any assets for them, they will try and fast track you in

to a home. home care is woefully inadequate for anyone needing any real halp. trust me I know about who overs what all too well. 4 hours a day help for AZ patients. HA. If you do not have any assests, then yes they put you on a long waiting list and hope you dies first. But if you have soemthing bhey can take- you get to go to the top of the list. Anyway that was my experience, They spent years tryiing to cajole us into warehouing my Mom, mostly because they could fleece her.

[jwirr]

189. AZ seems to be a poor example of government run programs. We

have much better services where we are at. Sorry to hear that is happening.

[bobbolink]

27. Your OP is now the view of many DUers. "We have brought it on ourselves", and "deserve what we get"

This has been posted here on DU, and considered a fine attitude.

So, screw us.

[theophilus]

31. Boomers should unite in a HUGE pressure group. We can put pressure

on corporations and we can put pressure on "elected officials" of both parties. Until Boomers rise up to join together in addressing this crap we will be victimized. We need to take the mantel of the "greatest generation" by forcing our political clowns to actually fix the country and the world. Boomers CAN do it if we choose to do so.

[robdogbucky]

35. See #13 above herein

"...My oh my. We have been sold down the proverbial river. On a what to do now level, let's organize, we still have the numbers, eh? We could form that elusive third party. We might even have enough grassroots members to raise significant money one dollar at a time, something that fierce advocate to every advantage of in 2008..."


Agreed


Hands off my Social Security!
Hands off Latin America!


Just my dos centavos

robdogbucky

[theophilus]

43. I don't think thrid party is the answer. Boomers need to act outside the

"party" system, imo, to pressure both sides in this case. Repubs are notoriously easy to influence by organized pressure (teabags). Dems will do the right thing if given cover. Let's don't go third party. That hasn't ended well. GO BOOMERS! FIGHT for what is right for America.

[defendandprotect]

67. Corporations are holding us all hostage with the two party monopoly .....

Question is how to break up the corporate hold and the monopoly!

Repubs are notoriously easy to influence by organized pressure (teabags).

Think you are misinformed -- but T-BAGGERS are founded and financed by the Koch Bros/

oil industry -- same family that gave us the John Birch Society -- and they are run

out of a PR firm which guarantees them coverage. They are being used to create a

higher level of political violence and hateful political rhetoric in America IN ORDER

TO MOVE BOTH PARTIES FURTHER TO THE RIGHT --!!

Graned, they also pick up people who are turned on by their rhetoric and violence --

and who are ready, willing and anxious to continue in that vein!

Dems will do the right thing if given cover. Let's don't go third party. That hasn't ended well. GO BOOMERS! FIGHT for what is right for America.

If Democrats were going to "do the right thing," they would have done it already.

We need IRV voting -- and an end to computer voting!

[snot]

82. +1

[tomp]

110. NOTHING is going to move the democratic party....

....besides a huge mass movement, if that.

who's going to organize that? and if it's even necessary, you are admitting the failure of the party.

we need to be organized outside the party. if we can organize enough pressure to change the democratic party, why can't we organize our own party to the left of the dems?

[defendandprotect]

144. We have 20% unemployed -- counting the long term unemployed ...

Corruption in every part of government --

that has to be building to a huge mass movement --

and obviously why we have Homeland Security and Patriot Act --

NOTHING is going to move the democratic party....
....besides a huge mass movement, if that.



who's going to organize that? and if it's even necessary, you are admitting the failure of the party.

Somehow unemployed and employed got together during the Great Depression -- someone organized

them -- and brought them together in a movement. Are we saying we can't do what people did

in the past?

we need to be organized outside the party. if we can organize enough pressure to change the democratic party, why can't we organize our own party to the left of the dems?

There is always the possibility that a large chunk of the Democratic Party might break away?

Think that's what you're talking about?

Democratic liberals standing up against the corporate takeover by DLC-Democrats?

Could happen -- but don't see any signs of that yet --

And, they certainly destroyed Dean's campaign -- they weren't about to have the LIBERAL

wing take over the party!!

[theophilus]

151. If you are suggesting a third party, I still say that that will only result in

the worst kind of Rep getting the presidency. Unless there are one or two rightwing "extra" parties this next go round, of course. Then it would be interesting.

[defendandprotect]

64. Unemployed and employed have to unite -- and act together ...

even if you have a job you are in jeopardy --

we're not creating jobs - theyr'e still cutting jobs!!

Total now is 20% unemployment when long term unemployed are included!!

[valerief]

157. Like AARP? nt

[robdogbucky]

33. More from that Obama article....

“...Where you were on these issues really told people who you were,” said Chris Lehane, a former Clinton White House official who is now a political consultant in California. “But 2008 will represent a hinge moment in generational politics, not just because of the prominence of a post-boomer candidate but because this will be the first cycle when a whole new range of issues as big, if not bigger, than the big issues that defined the boomers will be front and center: Iraq, the war on terror, global warming, energy, technology and globalization...”

...And yet Mr. Obama has not demonstrated his leadership beyond eight years in the Illinois Senate and two in Washington. His early opposition to the Iraq war has pleased many Democratic voters, but it is not wholly clear how he would manage an end to the war and deal with global terrorism and other foreign policy challenges.

The historian and Kennedy aide Arthur M. Schlesinger Jr. said Mr. Obama had to offer more than a repudiation of the previous generation’s actions. “It depends on what the policies are,” Mr. Schlesinger said. “The New Frontier was the development of the insights of the New Deal...”

...Mr. Obama would be foolish to run solely as the anti-boomer, Mr. Lehane said, if for no other reason than that the baby boomers are the largest generation in American history, and they vote."

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/21/weekinreview/21broder.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1295895602-IUc46DAMMxtIaUhOl31u4A



Please note this part from the excerpt: "...because this will be the first cycle when a whole new range of issues as big, if not bigger, than the big issues that defined the boomers will be front and center: Iraq, the war on terror, global warming, energy, technology and globalization...”


Didn't see healthcare, Social Security, Afghanistan or bailouts of Wall St. and medical insurance companies on that list, eh?

Interesting, no?




Hands off my Social Security!
Hands off Latin America!


Just my dos centavos


robdogbucky

[PatSeg]

143. "the largest generation in American history,

and they vote." That sums it up quite clearly. This is a group that should not be insulted or dismissed as no longer relevant. Wait and insult us after we're dead, when we can't vote.

[slackmaster]

37. In a little over seven years, I should be about ready to bail out of it voluntarily

Working full-time sucks.

[Nay]

49. 2 years for me, slackmaster. I honestly can barely wait that long. Working

full time does, indeed, suck, for a lot of us. And now they want to screw with SS.

[ipaint]

38. As go the poor, so go the baby boomers, so go the rest of the younger population.

If the country's citizens aren't first lifted from the very bottom up then whatever that bottom is it's all of our future. That's what the baby boomers need to learn.
It's not and never was all about the middle class. It's about ensuring that the bottom is a sustainable, humane place to live your life.

Right now large segments of the baby boomers are being economically disappeared into the black hole at the bottom of the class ladder. That can happen only because it has been allowed to happen to so many in the lower classes for decades.

[earth mom]

39. This is chilling. Though the writing has been on the wall for decades. nt

[kickysnana]

44. Just heard today my B-I-L, Systems analyst is stocking at Target. n/t

[Odin2005]

46. I have noticed that RW Gen-Xers LOVE to bash Boomers, and call us LW Millennials...

..."Boomer-tools". :grr:

[eilen]

53. They're just mad because their hippie parents abandoned them to tv

so they could "find themselves" in the 1970's. Don't take it personally. When they see how nurtured millenials are they get jealous.

[grasswire]

47. shock and awe, baby

Chaos capitalism.

[spooky3]

51. they want an entire generation to hop on the ice floe 20-40 years early

[Enthusiast]

120. I believe you have something there....nt

[RedCloud]

55. Many Boomers are being punished because they stopped the Viet nam war!

[defendandprotect]

65. Think you're right there -- right wing hates youth, anyway ...!!

Cause from youth comes revolution -- !!

Right wing likes to present the YOUTH REVOLUTION of the 1960's as simply being about "sex"

but it was about a hell of a lot more -- !!


"I realized that in this country we had a revolution--of housing, food, hair style, clothing, cosmetics, transportation, value systems, religion--it was an economic revolution, affecting the cosmetics industry, canned foods, the use of land; people were delivering their own babies, recycling old clothes, withdrawing from spectator sports. They were breaking the barriers where white and black could rap in 1967. This was the year of the Beatles, the summer of Sergeant Pepper, the Monterey Pop Festival, Haight-Ashbury, make your own candle and turn off the electricity, turn on with your friends and laugh--that's what life was all about."



http://maebrussell.com/Mae%20Brussell%20Articles/Ballad%20of%20Mae%20Brussell.html

[lonestarnot]

70. Well we certainly know they love war now don't we.

[defendandprotect]

72. They love war, the profits, the chaos and the violence ....

I can only think it mirrors their internal feelings?!

[dreamnightwind]

99. Mae!

Oh how I wish she was still with us, her wheels would be spinning right off their axis. I don't see her mentioned here very often. When her show would come on the radio I would lose a lot of time listening, then a lot more time thinking about what she said.

[defendandprotect]

146. Interesting ....

Wasn't aware of Mae Brussel until much later on -- after her shows --

when I caught up with her -- but she was brilliant -- still try to read and

listen to her stuff as often as I can --

From the highest perspective, she had the whole story long, long ago -- !!

[dreamnightwind]

180. I always hoped she was just crazy

and maybe she was a little crazy, but unfortunately as time has shown, she was more tuned in than almost anybody. It was just amazing how, from little more than books and newspaper clippings, she would spin together the connections and misdeeds of TPTB. And that was before the internet, I can't even imagine what she would have accomplished with the internet. A truly remarkable individual.

Dave Emory was another in a similar vein during that time (the 1980s for me was when I got into these people). He's also a little crazy, in a different way, also very tuned in to what's going on. I lost track of him and his message, and honestly these completely conspiratorial analysis were taking a toll on my psyche, so I moved on, but there's no ignoring the truth, and recent history vindicates their conspiratorial bent, they were clearly right about many many things, and they dedicated their lives to letting us know. The closest thing I've seen here on this board is people like Octafish and BobTheDrummer.

[defendandprotect]

181. Well, certainly Mae Brussel was as sane as you can be ....

it's the elites/corporatists who are insane -- and violent --

I always hoped she was just crazy
and maybe she was a little crazy, but unfortunately as time has shown, she was more tuned in than almost anybody. It was just amazing how, from little more than books and newspaper clippings, she would spin together the connections and misdeeds of TPTB. And that was before the internet, I can't even imagine what she would have accomplished with the internet. A truly remarkable individual.

Don't really know how she accomplished all the research, but presume she also had insiders giving

her info -- but really being Jewish was what gave her an appreciation for fascism.

In my case, I'm female -- that will also give you an appreciation for fascism --

same with African Americans and Hispanics -- and Homosexuals. They more quickly "get"

the scams cause they were the victims.

And I'd have to compare Jim Garrison with Mae Brussel -- they both were able immediately to

grasp the entire picture of what was happening. Mae was very well eductated -- and, of course,

at the time, she wasn't entirely alone. Many private investigations began with the coup on JFK.


Don't know Dave Emory but will look him up later --

Dave Emory was another in a similar vein during that time (the 1980s for me was when I got into these people). He's also a little crazy, in a different way, also very tuned in to what's going on. I lost track of him and his message, and honestly these completely conspiratorial analysis were taking a toll on my psyche, so I moved on, but there's no ignoring the truth, and recent history vindicates their conspiratorial bent, they were clearly right about many many things, and they dedicated their lives to letting us know. The closest thing I've seen here on this board is people like Octafish and BobTheDrummer.

Yes -- and ultimately Mae Brussel paid a heavy price for trying to let us know what was

happening -- one of her daughters was killed in a car accident -- though since Mae had

received so many threats on herself and her family it's questionable. Also, a house fire

which was very serious but no lives lost. And, eventually her death of cancer -- which

we could also question given David Ferrie's research and CIA accomplishments!!

CIA has always been fascism -- from the very beginning and has used money from any right

wing sources to keep right wingers in power internationally and here in America --

Many right wing Congressmen have gotten $$ from CIA -- two I'm aware of were Strom Thurmond

and Gerald Ford --

Pat Buchanan has also been financed by CIA --

Often our Federal schools budgets contained as much as 50% of secret funds for the CIA.

[dreamnightwind]

191. Her death was indeed very questionable

IIRC (probably not exactly correct, it's been awhile) I recall Paul Krassner talking about her death, how if Mae was still alive she would be investigating it. The story was that some mystery person moved in to a house upstream of her (the upstream part I'm not sure of, IIRC she drank from it because she was suspicious of other water sources but that's a very fuzzy memory, somewhere I probably have a clipping about it, but I'd have to look long and hard to find it) shortly before she got cancer, and shortly after her death the place was vacated, no trace left behind. Supposedly in between someone had looked in a window and seen all sorts of tech gear, believed to be surveillance equipment, and for some reason they were unable to determine who had been living in that house at that time. Sorry I don't have a more factual account, hopefully that's not too inaccurate, but the story was something like that and I never knew what to make of it. Knowing all that Mae was tracking, I suspected the worst.

She spent a good deal of time chronicling the CIA's use of cancer as a way to take people out.

edited to add the "not" before "exactly correct", which was my intention all along, just left out a word

[defendandprotect]

193. Interesting and I'd never heard any of that -- thank you!

[liberation]

80. LOL

If you think the VietNam war "stopped" because a bunch of hippies burned their draft cards, I have a nice bridge for sale... near primo real state in NY ;-)

[Enthusiast]

122. It stopped because hundreds

of thousands of us took to the streets.

[Enthusiast]

121. The thought has crossed my mind. nt

[Octafish]

62. Sums things up.

Serfing USA, ja!

[amborin]

69. K&R

[lonestarnot]

71. What percentage of the population are boomers?

[Hestia]

78. I've read 80 million boomers, 40 million gen-x and 84 million millenials

[Bennyboy]

73. My 50+ friends are losing their jobs evryday

Anotehr today. 55, got moved to a different department, could not handle the new job and was let go. 22 years, never missed a day. I told him that i hadn't an interview in five years.

[dflprincess]

75. And one reason people over 50 lose their jobs is because our

health insurance costs too much. Not only do younger workers get smaller salaries, their insurance premiums are less.

Another reason we needed a single payer system.

[Bennyboy]

76. only part of the reason...

the big reason is over 50 workers file 80% of comp claims or something like that.

And long term workers ahve larger slaries. My girl is the one who took this guy's job and she makes MUCh less than he did.

[LibDemAlways]

89. When a company needs an experienced worker these days, it can

also get away with offering that potential employee a fraction of what he or she is worth - especially if the person has been unemployed for awhile. After six months of looking, my 59 year old husband finally landed a job through a former co-worker - at a 40% cut in pay. The company is getting an excellent worker who really knows his stuff. My husband is getting screwed over. The sorry state of American business.

[Enthusiast]

123. Exactly

Single payer was our greatest need but it was "off the table". It was off the table because the insurance industry and the pharmaceutical companies own this country. Single payer is the only solution to growing medical costs, medicare and medicaid. Unless we just want to allow people to suffer and die, die quickly as Grayson said.

[Gman]

74. You too, huh? Me too since 2002.

Contract work is about the only way. Fortunately, I've got a few skills I've been able to sell. I don't like to think about 10 years from now.

[quaker bill]

83. This always was the plan

They like to call it "making the economy more competitive". What they do not call it is "reducing worker wages and benefits". However the phrases have precisely the same meaning. Free trade, bashing unions, invention of the 401K, reducing capital gains taxes, reducing upper level income taxes, and deregulation, were all policies aimed in this direction. They are finally getting near the "mission accomplished" stage, all they need to do now is privatize social security, shutter free public schools, default on government pensions, and the job will be pretty much complete.

[vssmith]

103. Exactly--their goal is a return to the feudal system

Or I think George H W Bush called it a New World Order

[quaker bill]

109. I would not know about feudal

as this would seem to imply little fiefdoms and I don't expect they care to share such power with lots of petty monarchs.

The point is to take power away from the workers / voters, both economic and political. Government by ballot box is the means through which the working class can express power equal to or greater than the wealthy few. This is why they would also like to repeal the direct election of senators, and generally diminish the power of government in the economy.

This is also why they oppose unemployment insurance and healthcare reform, because if the poor truly suffer, they will eventually accept any work at any pay, regardless of work conditions. They cannot truly drive wages through the floor without a large pool of hungry and desperate labor.

Driving wages through the floor and making sure that workers cannot organize, or change government policy to improve their lot, this is the unspoken but true point of "making us more competitive" globally, and it always was, from day one. You hear it all the time now, if you are employed its, "just be thankful you have a job", regardless of the cuts in pay and benefits. This is just where they intended to take us and where they will keep us for as long as they can.

[vssmith]

113. I was being somewhat facaetious and inaccurate about feudal comment but...

They take jobs overseas causing unemployment here which in turn drives the cost of labor down. This situation reduces government revenue and then they ask those disadvantaged to be good Americans and sacrifice with reductions in entitlement programs.

Conservatives have been busy at work destroying the New Deal ever since.

[right2bfree]

84. Had an UI Administrative law judge ask me why I didnt have any rejection letters.....

I almost laughed in her face. She is 20 years behind the times at least.

Needless to say no unemployment for me. We are so F*****d.

[prolesunited]

93. Didn't you have any electronic trail?

I made sure I did at least the minimum by ways that could be tracked through sites that sent confirmation e-mails with the date I applied. I did more, but I made sure I covered my ass in a way that I could document. I started a new gmail account for work stuff as well so it was easier to track.

If you applied online, you can probably dig up some records.

[femrap]

87. MSM is pitting the Boomers

against the Youth....and the Youth against the Boomers. DIVIDE AND CONQUER.

And the Rich get Richer....and the Boomers and Youth get POORER.

WAKE UP PEOPLE....WE'RE BEING PLAYED!

[right2bfree]

105. Damn straight !!!

[janet118]

129. This is a class issue . . . the American myth of equality covers it up

The New Deal created a middle-class. The boomers were the product of that middle class. The rich tried to stop the New Deal from happening and have been working to kill it ever since. It has been a long slow death but it is almost here.

We are taught that we are the greatest country in the world. We are taught that we can all pull ourselves up from poverty by sheer will and talent and become wealthy and successful. We are taught that those who don't are losers.

I was brought up middle-class - not upper middle, maybe even lower middle. I noticed right away that people who had well-to-do parents became successful, no matter how they performed in school or on the job.

Here's the problem. We all feel like losers when we are not successful because of the mythology that if we were smart or talented or industrious, we would be. Get over it. We are on our own. We should be working outside the government and forming our own co-operative food, shelter, and care systems. We will not. Americans pride themselves on competition and "independence." The death of unions, the lack of sharing and of common causes, our wary mistrust of each other, these all work to prevent organized cooperation to meet our own needs.

Boomers (or "hippies," a relatively small percentage of boomers) were right about group living and alternative energy and homegrown food. But finding out what happened to those back-to-the-land-ers may offer clues about why Americans have so much and do so little with it.

[femrap]

177. I grew up lower-middle,

but really had no idea at the time...raised by a single mother at a time when if she became pregnant, she would be fired from her job and, of course, abortion was illegal.

I've always had a distaste for the 'you are what you make a living at' way of looking at things. I was born with the undeniable gene that fights for the Underdog and Justice.

I was a hippie until I had to get a job....and want nothing more than to find a cooperative community that works to be off the grid as much as possible. Our 'culture' has become so brutal that I isolate myself. I'm currently stuck in Dumfukistan, the former state of Ohio, and so far haven't met up with anyone who shares my vision. But I won't give up trying.

And you're so right....we are on our own. The Gov't cares nothing about us.

I worked for Corporations until the point where they had eaten my soul and I couldn't take it anymore. They simply suck one's life energy. I saved every cent so I could buy some Freedom for myself. When I worked in these horrid corporations, I'd watch dudes get promotion after promotion and they were so dumb...but I guess they knew the right people and kissed an elaborate amounts of ass.

[janet118]

186. I've started the conversation . . .

with a few friends about forming this kind of community. One thing that came up a lot was . . . we are all women and our husbands/male friends don't seem to have the same interest in sharing and cooperation. Maybe they just don't sense the urgency.

Also your geographic point is well taken. We are scattered across the east coast - from Florida to Maine. We all believe that pooling resources and skills without requiring any kind of religious litmus test is what we are looking for, but we would like some kind of guiding principles. So we are talking and making tentative plans.

Message me your thoughts if you are interested in adding to conversation.

[femrap]

195. I tried to message you

but you have elected to NOT receive any.

I firmly believe that we are witnessing the decline of the Empire and the gov't cares nothing about the people's well-being. We are on our own.

You may send me a message. I'm interested in joining the conversation.

[janet118]

196. Weird . . . I'll try to change the message option

Also, when I tried to send you a message and screen came up saying you did not want to receive private messages either. Double weird.

[janet118]

197. Just checked my options . . .

private message option says "yes" . . . maybe it has something to do with site update. I'll try again in a week.

[femrap]

199. Maybe TPTB

at DU don't want women communicating to each other....:tinfoilhat:

I got some messages last weekend....something must be wrong, but I'll check as well.

[Raksha]

91. K & R and bookmarked by another old Boomer,

who understands first-hand the truth of what you're saying here. It's deliberate policy to systematically impoverish our generation...and if the PTB have their way, the ones that come after us.

I had a rather animated discussion about politics with my son today. He's 37 years old and considers himself a centrist or moderate Democrat, still has a high opinion of Obama and thinks I'm too radical, too much of a purist.

I try desperately to communicate to him how things used to be, not just out of aging-hippie nostalgia (although granted, there's always some of that) but mostly because I don't want him to think that "the new normal," the America of lowered expectations, actually *IS* normal. I don't want him to passively accept it, believing he has no choice.

Today I tried to explain to him that although I was poor growing up and felt desperately inferior because of it, even poverty didn't mean the same thing in the 1950s and 1960s that it does now. You might have a really crappy house or apartment and shabby clothes, etc. but almost everyone had some kind of roof over his or her head. There were very few homeless people. I told my son the postwar boom years were the most prosperous times we had ever seen in America, and that there had never been anything like it before or since--something I absolutely failed to appreciate at the time, BTW.

I think I finally got through to him when I told him that when I was growing up, almost all my clothes had the ILGWU union tag in them, that they were made in New York and NOT in China!

"That's sad," he said.

Maybe that's when he finally started making a few important connections.

[Mojeoux]

94. The documentary "Shmatta," about the NY clothing industry said

that in 1965, 95% of our clothes were from here. In 2005, only 5% are made here in the USA. SUX

[Raksha]

102. I think I'd like to see that documentary.

My aunt worked in the "Shmatta business" aka "rag business," and was a member of that same union. She was a sample maker. Typical Jewish immigrant blue-collar story. I'm proud of it and it's part of the reason for my union avatar. Another reason is my uncle and two cousins in the electricians' union.

I didn't know that 95% of our clothes were made in America in 1965, and the situation is reversed today. It doesn't HAVE to be that way, dammit.

[dimbear]

97. This won't bring me any new popularity, but

the times right now are ordinary times. Things are the way they usually are. The prosperity of the postwar? That was the blip.

[HEyHEY]

98. Not that I don't care about your situation. But maybe the boomers now know how....

My generation felt when tuitions were being raised, social programs for young people were being cut and real estate speculators were driving the market so high none of us ever had a chance to own a house NEARLY the same level of quality of our parent's homes.

You'll have to excuse me, i have to get back to working twice as hard for half as much.

[Hannah Bell]

101. wtf? that kind of attitude is why we're in trouble.

[HEyHEY]

192. I j ust get pissed when I hear boomers

Go on and on with "Woe is me" bullshit. When I was in university I remember cost of living and tuition skyrocketing and the boomer generation holding the purse strings saying shit like "The free ride is over" and all this bullshit as they literally took their childrens' futures away. I don't begrudge any of them personally, but I just find it hard to care about their griping when they had it better than anyone then spat in our faces.

[ornotna]

171. "working twice as hard for half as much"

So in China you're actually well off? :shrug:

[right2bfree]

104. Too bad that all of this will eventually end in a violent revolt that will make 1775 look tame. nt

[Hubert Flottz]

106. And the bad part is...

America's bridges are in such a sad state of repair, that we don't dare sleep under most of them.

[Uben]

117. Hold it! I've got $2000

.....how much do you need? This'll get us by till the banks open back up. We can't let Potter win or he'll own the whole town and we'll all be forced to rent one of his broken down shacks!

[Ochsfan]

175. The modern Mr. Potter

How conservatives can watch that film, and never see parallels between Henry Potter and Dick Cheney, I'll never understand.

[KharmaTrain]

124. When You've Maxed Out The Card...

As a "boomer", I've see a lifetime of government defecit spending...billions in the 80s, trillions today that are weighing this economy down and providing the justification for many corporations to outsource and offshore.

You are spot on that there's a deliberate attempt to freeze out those in their 50s and early 60s...its cheaper to hire a single 20somethings. We're also paying for the gambling many of these corporates have done...bankrupting companies that meant decades of pensions being flushed down the toilet and many stuck in restrictive 401K and other plans based on stocks...many that crashed or are worth less than they did several years ago.

I look around and see much the same as you do. Unless you're in management or own a business, once you hit 40 the perception is you're "too old" or too expensive.

Cheers...

[Larkspur]

126. Corporations rather have cheap labor from India and China than any American of any age

I was laid off in Nov. 2008 and my tasks given to an Indian contractor. I was hired back 6 months later as a temp contractor by the end users of the environment I managed because the Indian contractors screwed up the environment despite the fact that I had documentation for it. I still am working as a temp contractor but the Systems Group doesn't want to hire me back on a full time basis, so I'm still employed by the end users who are not happy with the service from the Systems Group.

[dendrobium]

128. Thank Ronald Reagan.

I am not unsympathetic. But far too many Boomers fell for what Ronald Reagan was peddling. Now we are all paying the price.

[TomClash]

130. The "Employer's View" is . . .

. . .there is plenty of surplus labor to go around. No need to hire some old fart set in his or her ways who'd have to be trained anyway. Plus, that person would want a decent wage because of their experience, which has only limited value. And there are higher health care costs to pay.

Forget it. X Corp. can hire the newbie for much less with lower health insurance costs. And the newbie won't cry a river, won't get sick as much and will work harder because the newbie thinks he or she has a future.

[KillCapitalism]

131. If you all haven't noticed, every generation is screwed.

I'm considered gen y, and our generation gets saddled with many thousands in student loan debt with little in the way of job prospects after graduation. Low-wage service jobs are easily available to us, but that's about it. Employers that offer decent professional positions sometimes require 5-7 years of experience for entry level positions. Who has that coming right out of school?

They like to tell us that jobs will open up when boomers leave the workforce, but that certainly hasn't been the case. When a boomer leaves, they either eliminate their position altogether, or move it to some country where the prevailing wage is less than $2 an hour. So, us younger folk do not have it easier, not by a long shot. We are all collectively screwed.

[raccoon]

139. IMO, there is a third possibility that may occur when anyone retires.

Other than the two you mentioned.

"When a boomer leaves, they either eliminate their position altogether, or move it to some country where the prevailing wage is less than $2 an hour. "

Third possibility is to downgrade the position; downgrade the pay and/or make it part-time, no benefits.

[Action]

142. But

We are the next ones to get it. I just don't understand how Boomers could vote for a party that is screwing them over and over again. Oh yea, they voted for Guns, God & Gays.

How's that going to help your retirement?

[LiberalEsto]

132. 58 and out of work for over 2 years

I didn't work any place long enough to qualify for a pension. I almost got vested at a large daily newspaper, but had to go on temporary disability due to illness, and wasn't able to work full time after that. No savings. My husband lost a huge chunk of retirement savings because Fannie Mae stock's value dropped to nothing - he worked there for 17 years.
Nobody wants to hire someone my age. If they cut Social security we could end up living in a cardboard box somewhere.

And what scares me is that there are so many people who are far worse off than we are. What on earth is going to happen to them?

[Skidmore]

134. Wanted to add a note this morning and the editing period is past for the OP.

If the corporations are successful in getting the government to jigger the trade agreements with China to open up that market, then we have lost our most valuable leverage here...that of being a captive consumer market. The American consumer has kept these people in business. When they finally have access to a huge group of consumers elsewhere who will work for a pittance in the presence of no regulatory oversight is when the corporations will no longer even pretend that this nation is important to them.

[Action]

140. Mystery

This is exactly why I have been mystified by all the average, not rich Boomers who have voted for the repubs since Reagan.

How's that working out for ya now? Who will protect you? Think about it.

[decidedlyso]

156. Yeah, this was a big mistake, but I understand it. There are two

or three things that Democrats extoll that Boomers do not abide by. So they have cut off their noses to spite their faces, thinking that they are now closer to the end of their lives and want to get into heaven.

[valerief]

158. Imprinting. They've been imprinted with jingoistic jargon and hypnotically respond to it.

That's why Repubs dish it out.

[KansDem]

141. KnR

When Tom Brokaw published his "The Greatest Generation," I wondered where we boomers fit in. I sense a feeling that we are spoiled and ungrateful. But then we didn't have a Great Depression and World War to mold our destiny.

We do have Wars Based On Lies for the Extremely Wealthy and The Great Recession as our jobs are shipped overseas and our homes foreclosed on by sleazy bankers while we pay profit-driven health care costs, but apparently those don't count.

[woo me with science]

159. Kicked and recommended strongly. nt

[treestar]

164. How could the largest group be so victimized?

Not voting as a block, obviously. But it'd kind of sad how people vote against their own interests.

[bvar22]

168. I agree!!!

IF we only gave The Democrats:

*The White House

*Huge MAJORITIES in The House

*A filibuster proof majority in The Senate

*A huge Mandate for "CHANGE"

...THEN things wouldn't be so bad !


"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."---Paul Wellstone


"By their works, you will know them."

[treestar]

169. Do you have proof it was the boomers?

And these are majorities of Democrats. a cat herd disperses almost immediately.

Filibuster included Lieberman which is not a real majority.

[BrightSideOfLife]

166. I blame "Boomers" for most of the major problems

I blame "Boomers" for most of the major problems that we now face. The generation that is approaching retirement now are the ones who started the whole slippery slope to third world country status back in the 80's that we now face.
I don't agree with the rationale behind any of the moves being pushed forward today, but most of the ones doing the pushing are from the Boomer generation. Remember "Greed is Good?"

[riverbendviewgal]

179. Ronald Reagan was not a boomer

I blame him.

I am a zoomer...That is what Canadian Moses Zaimer calls us boomers....I was born in the blizzard of 47 in NJ.

I watched Kennedy get elected and get assassinated. I watched the train go bye in NJ with Bobby Kennedy on the way to his funeral. I was near the riots in NJ when King got killed. I met my conscientious objector, draft dodger, army deserter and finally Jimmy Carter pardoned husband July 3 and we were married July 27th the same year. The next year we went to Canada and were accepted as refugees

I am Canadian..raised two sons. My husband and I worked union jobs in Canada. I love our health care system. It gave the best of care to my younger son and husband when they had cancer, diagnosed 2 months apart. I was given 2k for each of them when they died, from the government. There were no medical bills. I am now retired.

I have many relatives in the states who are not doing so good.

It is not the zoomers/boomers killing America...It is the right wing neo-conservatives....Those who went to the School of Chicago where it is taught that the elite should rule and the masses can be lied to...

Canada is my home and native land now....I stand on guard for it...We don't want any American right wing ideas here. Harper will be gone the next election.

[CLANG]

187. Well, then you came to that opinion how?

I'm a '54 boomer and I've been a far left liberal since I could formulate thought. That's an awfully big brush you're painting a lot of good people with. Not the sign of a very discriminating mind...
:eyes: :puke:

[cottonseed]

190. Yup. They wanted more candy. Then ate it all.