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I'm sorry to hear things have been so bad over here, and here's why --

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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-18-13 01:13 AM
Original message
I'm sorry to hear things have been so bad over here, and here's why --
Edited on Tue Jun-18-13 02:13 AM by Leopolds Ghost
I posted a content-free greetings and welcome back type post and got 5 friendly replies over here on DU2.

In the intervening 5 days I spent a long time pulling together photos for a very lengthy post on the NSA
business. All newspaper articles and clippings I've saved for years and years.

I dragged my heels on writing it because I was afraid it would be ignored by the neo-liberals, quasi-conservatives, highly paid technocrats, increasingly conservative aging boomers, and anti-civil libertarians that seem to dominate the discourse of our vibrant New Democratic Party. That's if and when they don't simply ignore people, which most "mainstream Democrats" seem to tune out anyone they think is an "activist".

So I haven't posted it yet.

I'm wondering if I should.

But I did post a long series of photos about the Iranian Election and a video on DU3.

It got almost no replies.

In fact I think the only reply was from formercia who is also here.

(the video is from the anti-Ahmedinejad movement that happened there in 2009 which helped lead to Occupy)

I find it easier to have a discussion here than there. For one thing people use the continual turnover of new posts as an excuse to drop the subject before a day has passed, as if they were on some sort of chat line or something. So only the people with the most "karma" (or whatever) get any significant response to anything they post. Sort of like Facebook or Tumblr or Reddit.

I think more people have replied to me here on the "hardly active" DU2 than ever reply to me on DU3. It's like an echo chamber over there with people only responding to people they agree with. And the political climate on the new DU seems to mirror the polls, with half or more of the posts attacking the whole Snowden-gate as "drama" created by malcontents who secretly hate Obama.

They're making post after post about how anyone who didn't think they were being spied upon was stupid, and majoritarian populist appeals to the fact that most people put their entire lives on facebook (apparently, most people are either stupid or uninteresting enough that they don't feel the need to separate their public and private life, or even to have a private life with friends offline.)

Even snooper2 is posting something similar to that over there, and other posts I've read whose content would suggest an attack on the both administrations for its egregious abuse of power (under the color of unconstitutional law) are followed up with a postscript about "see, those are the facts and that's why this scandal is no big deal." As if they knew about it all along but were in mutual agreement with the administration that it shouldn't be talked about back in the day.

This despite the fact that people like me were shunned and made to feel like freaks for talking about the scandal years ago, when they passed the laws making it legal (Obama's vote put the FISA "reform" over the top) because of prior leaks that are now being forgotten and ignored. Like the huge Harper's expose from over 5 years ago.

So which is it, am I/we/other people a freak and a conspiracy nut? Or are there no liberals left, much less left?

Have all the activists essentially been chased away from the party, creating an echo chamber of unhealthy, closed minded ideas from people who believe that "we" are in control and can do whatever the f*** we want to "those people", the "naysayers", i.e. anyone who doesn't like the current leaders?

Because people just don't reply to me over there anymore.

HAY GUYS, WHAT'S GOING
.... ....
ON IN THIS THREAD?
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-18-13 03:07 AM
Response to Original message
1. Hi Mr. Ghost.
You can post you NSA story here. I'm not a malcontent that secretly hates Obama. I'm up front with my hatred.
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-18-13 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Heh heh. I'll post it later
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-20-13 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Anything that can be perceived as anti establishment, anti-Obama or anti Democrat is not
likely to get a good reception on some boards. So, don't be surprises if an anti-NSA post gets either no replies or a lot of venom on some boards. It's cool, as long as you don't take it personally. ((((Leo))))
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-20-13 12:45 AM
Response to Original message
3. Leo, those photos were so amazing. Thanks.
Edited on Thu Jun-20-13 12:47 AM by No Elephants
So was formercia's reply. Bellus interruptus. LOL!

Things haven't been bad here, though. Just quiet. Some mod or other deletes three months worth of posts to be discouraging and, well, it is discouraging. I considered doubling down on posting just not to give him the satisfaction, but I was too lazy and not sufficiently motivated.

Besides, if someone is going to get satisfaction from eliminating speech, just because he can, and still call himself left of center, the poor dumb, cowardly fascist wannabe fucker probably desperately needs some satisfaction and I am just not mean enough to deprive him.

(Other than that, how did you enjoy the play, Mrs. Lincoln?)
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-23-13 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Bellus Unterruptus.
:hug:
I'm glad it got a laugh. :)
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-25-13 02:12 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. It did!
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-21-13 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
5. I just noticed that you asked whether any liberals remain.
Edited on Fri Jun-21-13 06:33 PM by No Elephants
Yes, of course, lots liberals exist, but a lot of effort has been put into making people, including Democrats, recoil from the word "liberal."

From polls, when people are questioned on issues, without labels like liberal or moderate or centrist, a very healthy majority answers as any liberal would. Then, the propaganda machines go to work and "help" them change their minds.

Republicans try to pretend Obama is not only liberal, but far left, in Communist political territory. Obviously, he isn't.

Most of the time, Democrats also try to pretend that few to none in the U.S are left of Obama.

They mention the "left of the left" only when it's time to berate liberals, or someone perceives a need to use liberals as leverage. As in "Obama is in an impossible position, getting pressure from both the right and the left."

Most of the time, though, they'd just as soon pretend liberals don't still exist at all. And the media seems more than willing to assist them in perpetuating that myth, referring to every Democratic politician as "liberal."

Maybe a year or so before DU3 went live, someone on DU2 started a thread asking liberals to check in. I think he got about 300 replies.

After that, Du's centrists and unconditional lloyalists decided they had to "take back" the word "liberal" and they started calling themselves liberal as well. So, the word did begin to mean on DU "any ole Democrat, no matter how centrist or far right." Which is about how the media and Republicans use it. So, once again, Democrats helped the right win.

A lot of actual liberals have left DU2 and DU3 over time, though, some voluntarily and some with tombstones.

Democratic Underground was begun, after all, as a place to give loyal Democrats a refuge from people who crticize Democrats, be the critics Republican or "the left of the left." During the Bush years, I don't think it was anticipated just how much criticism might come at a center right Democrat from the left.

So, I would not use DU as a barometer of where the entire left is. It is a very good board for what it is, but it is a Democratic board, not an all inclusive left board.

But, being an activist, you knew that.




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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-23-13 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
7. Got your back, leo.
:hi:
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