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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-12 03:03 PM
Original message
Party name means everything - Ideas mean nothing...
Edited on Thu Apr-12-12 03:04 PM by kentuck

It has become all too apparent that ideas mean very little in today's political world. We have "evolved" to a very unpleasant point.

America has invested its loyalties in a Party name, over principles and ideas. So long as their Party says that they did not run over that skunk in the road, supporters tend to believe them, no matter if the smell of skunk is all over them.

It has become a money game. It is a worthless and useless endeavor. They do not stand for the people. They stand for nothing except the enrichment of themselves and their friends. Americans are fools to play along with such a charade.

Instead, they should stand up and say, "No, we will not be your tools any longer. We do not work for you - you work for us. If you cannot understand that, it is nigh time that we send you home before further damage is done."

Lies and deceptions abound everywhere. How is a person supposed to know who is telling the truth?? Educate yourself! That is my message to America.

.
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dtexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-12 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
1. Unfortunately true, including on some posting sites.
I have long said that whatever movement or cause one is associated with needs to consider its own arguments, philosophy, strategy, and interests first, and not allow them to be submerged in ANY political party. Unfortunately, following that approach can get one tombstoned on some "progressive" sites.
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-12 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
2. I first got tipped off to this reading how the Founders didn't want political parties.
Sadly, in their quest to avoid the formation of parties, they didn't put protections in place that would avoid the creation of a party duopoly, which other nations have tried to avoid.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-13-12 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. I don't know if they actively did not want political parties. They did not have formal political
Edited on Fri Apr-13-12 12:55 AM by No Elephants
parties, that's certain.

Did they even know about political parties? Did any nation have political parties then?

I wonder if they could even have conceived of anti-democratic (lower case d)measures being put into effect to squeeze out third parties?
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-13-12 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Too late to edit, but I meant political parties as we understand them today.
Edited on Fri Apr-13-12 01:45 AM by No Elephants
there has been disagreement in government forever, with this faction or that adhering to one view or another or another, palace intrigues, etc.

Okay, I've just been doing some reading on the First Parliament in England as well as on the origin of political parties in the U.S. and found some answers to my own questions.

No, there were not political parties as we now them anywhere in the world.

The Framers did not want politics to be partisan, but partisanship does not have to be tied to political Parties. IOW, "partisan" is a broader term than "along the lines of formal political parties."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_parties_in_the_U...
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-12-12 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
3. Neither Constructive, Forward Thinking Ideas....Or Discussion....will be tolerated...
Edited on Thu Apr-12-12 04:43 PM by KoKo
It's all been decided ...just get out there and vote!
:eyes:

Of Course...I will vote for Obama...Look at the alternatives...and shrink back in horror.

Yet...what happens after that? :shrug:
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-13-12 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Self delete.
Edited on Fri Apr-13-12 12:21 AM by No Elephants
.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-13-12 12:34 AM
Response to Original message
6. If we are applying that to both major Parties, I agree.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-13-12 06:04 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Of course..
It would apply to all Parties.

The more it is about Parties, the less it is about ideas and principles. It becomes nothing more than a game of money and propaganda. Voters vote for their Party instead of ideas that will make their own lives better.

This is where we are today. I will admit that I am biased for the Democratic Party but I see little redeeming quality in the present-day Republican Party. It's all a game and their followers are nothing more than jellyfish, dragging us to the bottom of the ocean...
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-13-12 07:41 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. I am not the least bit biased: Democrats ARE better than Republicans.
Democrats are not what they used to be, though. So, while I consider them the better of the two existing major parties, I am not going to say they are the best Party that is reasonably possible.

Be that as it may...

People say the Democratic Party traces back to Jefferson. I am not sure that is 100% true because, in those days, the party of a strong central government was also the party of the rich and powerful. So, it is not so easy to say where our origins lay because the Parties then lined up on issues differently from the way that they do today.

However, assume, for the sake of discussion that it is true.

Jefferson, for all his high faluting words, was not only a slave owner, but a slave owner who used his dead wife's half sister for sex and as a slave; and, as a resulted, ending up owning his own children.

In the Lincoln Douglas debates, Lincoln, the Republican (then a new third party!) was for confining slavery to places where it already existed while Douglas (D) was for allowing the spread of slavery into the territories.

Let's assume that you were on the correct side of history on the slavery issue and, as a result, were a very young Republican when Lincoln ran, but you lived to be 110. At what point in history would you have changed party loyalties, if ever?

At what point does the Party loyalty become, as you say, merely loyalty to only the name of a Party, instead of loyalty to a Party that stood for your ideals?

And what part in all that does the cult of personality play? For example, Maria Shriver, Democrat of Democratic "royalty" supported Arnold for Governor. Was that only because she loved him? Or had she come to see political issues his way (and he her way)?

On the flip side, Julie Nixon Eisenhower, a Republican of Republican royalty squared, donated to and endorsed Obama. Why? Was that about him personally, or has her Party left her? Or both?

I feel I am at a crossroads as to many of these issues.


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