I have checked out DU3

[kentuck]

This is only my opinion.

It seems that a lot of the old conservative trolls have gone there. A lot of new people are showing up, many of them right-wingers. They seem to feel more secure since the site does not show their number of posts, unless you click on their names. There are a lot of them.

What does it portend?

There will be a lot of wasted arguments. There will be more people on DU but, not necessarily, Democrats. IF you can handle that or prefer that, DU3 should fit you perfectly. There will be a lot more diversity of opinion.

The jury system is still out, so to speak. I had 3 or 4 posts that went to the jury, mostly in response to troll arguments, in my opinion, and I was ruled against. If you have a thin skin, the jury system may not be for you. The verdict totally depends who is on the jury, in 30-minute intervals, at any given time.

Otherwise, there are a lot of similarities to DU2. If it is the only place left to go to express a progressive opinion, it is probably superior to most other sites.

[Lint Head]

1. I have some of the same concerns.

The Democratic Underground seems less Democrat than usual at DU3 which is making the conversations a little watered down. It seems like DU is morphing into something more for commercial use than political repartee.

[nc4bo]

4. I think you described my feelings better than I can.

It seems like DU is morphing into something more for commercial use than political repartee.

^This.

Perhaps the new improved DU is the big tent meant to welcome a boarder user base; Independents, blue dogs, left leaning Republicans. Pure Obama campaign mode wooing all that are woo-able.

I can't quite put my finger on it, kindof don't want to actually. It's just different and may take getting used to or not.

:shrug:

[femrap]

20. It's aboveground now. nt

[paulk]

2. I noticed the influx of trolls also

a lot of conservative POV new posters...

the jury system is a failure, imo. The joining of GD/GDP is also a disaster - it's just a mess of mud slinging like GDP was - no real discussion about anything. It could be there, but you've got to wade through so much shit to find it that it's hardly worthwhile.

I'm really disappointed in DU3 -

[kentuck]

16. I think it is safe to say...

it is not the same. However, it is understandable that times change and DU may have to change to keep up with the times? The game is traffic and how many people visit your board. It is no longer about the "cause". That is ancient history. Who is George W Bush??

Also, it makes sense to try and keep the old customers if possible and I think they are doing their best to do that. But a partisan website, such as DU2, is frankly, behind the times. If it is about business, then decisions have to be made from a business standpoint.

Yes, there will be more people that disagree with you. Yes, there will be more people that disagree with Barack Obama. If you think the old site was bad, wait until DU3 is going full blast. People that like diversity of opinions will like DU3 moreso than DU2. The self-policing could create problems but is probably the fairest and most up-to-date such system on the Internet, in my opinion.

Love it or hate it, it is the new DemocraticUnderground except it is no longer underground. It is up front and competing with other boards for visitors and traffic. It is a business decision and we have to respect that. That is my opinion.

[sabrina 1]

18. Not sure I understand this:

But a partisan website, such as DU2, is frankly, behind the times.

Isn't DU3 partisan also? Even more so actually?

I do agree though that as more and more people lose faith in both parties, partisan websites are going to be less and less popular. Anyone who jumps on the Independent bandwagon now, will be the next wave of popular, political websites, imo

OWS demonstrates how the old politics no longer interests people. Eg, what I used to find interesting, slamming Republicans like Newt, seems like old, a waste of time and ineffective. We spent years doing that and it had zero effect on the outcome for the country. It is the whole system that needs fixing.

Issues will be the future, rather than parties, imo. That is totally not part of the Partisan boards. Issues that used to super important to Democrats, are now brushed aside, or decisions made in opposition to what used to be the principled stand of Democrats, are now excused and explained. That won't keep too many people around for too long, imho.

Now it's about the Country, and the people are beginning to lead since they feel the government is not functioning for them anymore.

[kentuck]

21. So...

You think DU3 is more partisan? Have you spent quite a bit of time there?

You might be correct that it is more partisan with the hardcore partisans, pro-Obama or otherwise, but it seems to me there is a lot more variety of opinion and that it will no longer be a board that specifically supports Obama or Democrats? I may be wrong but it seems to have changed into a more free flow discussion board and the jury system will decide who is in bounds and who is out of bounds. That will keep it more or less "Democratic" for the time being, I think. I have no idea which direction it will go in the future.

[reggie the dog]

51. DU3 accepts more right wingers and is weeding out left wingers

they dont want the radical left on the board but accept the right wing

[Lorien]

53. Makes sense if their policy positions are Right wing

what better way to destroy liberalism in America then by insisting that "democrats" adopt right wing policy positions?

[sabrina 1]

66. More partisan, not really. It is a Democratic Party blog so

it's bound to be more partisan, than say Left Underground, which seems to more Independent. The variety may be because of the blending of the two GD forums, GD and GDP so everyone is forced to meet each other now. I'm seeing names I never noticed before yet they are longtime users.

I think many people are waiting to see which way to go so you're not alone. At least there are a few choices now, so that's a good thing. :-)

[paulk]

19. yeah, i understand the business decision side of it

Skinner and co. have been moving in that direction for quite awhile.

It's too bad in a way, in that the larger and more diverse a site is, the less it seems to be a forum for any honest discussion - it just gets so big that it's an avalanche of he said she said...

[Lorien]

52. Everything evil that is done in this Country is excused as "a business descision"

Doing the profitable thing is always chosen over doing the honorable and right thing. No, I don't respect that.

[DainBramaged]

3. You'll have to pry DU2 from our cold dead fingers.......

[madfloridian]

5. It isn't the only place to go.

Pretty good description, kentuck.

I have read there a little, and I am not going there. Maybe in the future, not now.

There are other comfortable places.

[DainBramaged]

6. I just found a pUKE, plain as day, happy as a clam to tell us his gun rights

stupd fuckers.

[ellisonz]

67. The Gungeon is infested.

I'm currently fumigating it. Care to join? :wink:

You can tell them by their lack of substantive posting, avatars, profiles, signatures, and lame names.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Ah the jury system

Depends on jury...but got a 6-0 to hide a way over the top post. So it might become luck, but also moderate some of the attacks.

[Generic Other]

8. My 2 cents

The people left here are the real deal.

[Lasher]

45. I agree.

I've seen one or two trolls 'keeping Ron Paul's name out there' but with such rare exceptions, it's my kinda Democrat hanging out now at DU2.

[dbt]

9. Thank you, kentuck.

I highly respect your opinions and have been waiting for them. For my own reasons (privacy and money-grubbing foremost among them), I'm not going Over There. That being said, I'm sure you have given the place a fair shake--and that your analysis is a fair one.

:hi:

[kentuck]

10. I think the biggest difference is...

...that it is a more "open" board. It will generate more traffic. It is no longer "DemocraticUnderground", in my opinion. It has morphed into something different. Mostly it will be slings and arrows and there will be no consensus on any subject. If you say the sky is blue, someone will dispute it and attack your character in the process. It's a new world.

You can still express your opinion but don't expect to get as many folks to agree with you. There are plenty of new "faces" and they do not tend to be progressive or liberal. It is more of a free-for-all discussion than before. You may like it?

[dbt]

11. Wait...

For at least the past ten years HERE, if you've said the sky is blue and have dared to go outside the Acceptable Thought Forms in doing so, you've had the very real risk of being jumped on, disputed and derailed by what can be fairly viewed as a protected group--who somehow STILL are immune from the Rules that apply to everyone else!

I guess it depends on what your definition of "open" is.

[kentuck]

12. You make a good point.

I think there may be more soldiers on DU3? :-)

[KoKo]

13. Yep more soldiers and it's a real battleground with blood flowing...

More clearly defined troops and enemies than were evident here. It's a dehumanizing place. Hard on both the eyes and the sensibilities for some of us.

Only my opinion, though. It might just be a necessary evolution.

[kentuck]

14. Yep...

Some have a hard time taking the counterpunches. It gets personal rather quickly.

[Huey P. Long]

17. Some are even 'Hosts'! Very 'odd'. -eom

[SixthSense]

43. what is that exactly?

a fancy new word for "moderator"?

[Rhiannon12866]

48. Who do you see as a "protected group" here? I'd really like to know...

As mods, we've seen that opinion a lot, but I still don't know who they're supposed to be... :shrug: :hi:

[dbt]

57. Hell's Bells, Rhiannon...

That's one of the oldest Catch-22s on DU. If you name 'em, it's a callout, no? But they weren't that hard to spot here. One could start any sort of "woo" thread and they would pile in within minutes to "derail or disrupt an otherwise thoughtful discussion" with never a deletion.

:hi:

[Rhiannon12866]

59. Sorry, I did forget myself for a minute there.

Discussion about DU.3 is allowed here, but I see your point. It's just that I really want to know. I've been a mod for several terms, the first one back in 2007, and I've never seen any "group" get special treatment. Skinner has said that certain types of discussions were allowed, as you know, but neither he, nor any of us, has favored one group over another that I've seen.

To be honest, when I've been moderating, I often don't even notice who it is who made the post in an alert. I'm usually too busy looking at the post to see if it breaks any rules. Many don't and we agree on that, so we just let them stand.

And if by "woo" threads, you mean conspiracy theories, we move those to 9/11. Sorry if you thought I was baiting you... :( :shrug: :hi:

[dbt]

62. My concerns about protected groups go far back beyond 2007.

This behavior was quite evident from 2001 forward. A small, quite vocal, quite "anti-conspiracy theory" group of posters was allowed to run roughshod over any and all threads that went the slightest bit outside the accepted DU groupthink, with immunity from the rules that were rigidly applied to everyone else. They were--and, I reckon, still are--allowed to pile on, disrupt and derail otherwise thoughtful discussions, which is a violation of the Rules. Yet, their posts are rarely, if ever, removed. I'm not aware of any of these people being TS'ed for this behavior.

It bears pointing out that the term "conspiracy theory" has been WAY overused and over-applied at DU; it smacks of paranoia. Just to use one example, anything--no matter how well supported by respected sources in mainstream media (whatever the hell that means anymore)--that has deviated a millimeter from the official explanation of 9/11 has been whisked off to the DUngeon immediately. Other threads, in far more egregious violations of The Rules, have been allowed to stand for half a day or more.

I don't think you're baiting me. I just think you need to look a little deeper, is all.

[Rhiannon12866]

65. Thank you so much for the explanation.

I will make an effort to think more about this. If you're talking about the actual events of 9/11, then it seems that the best place to discuss this, would be in the 9/11 forum, no? :shrug:

From my perspective, "conspiracy theories" do often depend on the source. I think of CT as beliefs that are outside the mainstream and are a theory, rather than a proven fact, though I know that folks tend to disagree about this.

As for the mods, we really do weigh our decisions carefully and may seem to take a long time to act because we're discussing what would be the best course of action. We really do have to come to a consensus, and when even one person's unpersuaded, the default is to leave things alone.

I haven't spent a whole lot of time in the 9/11 forum, so I may not sufficiently understand your points here. Also, as a mod, until recently most of us have been kept busy dealing with alerts, but I will make an effort to explore the corners of this board while I still have a chance.

Thank you for answering my question! ;)

Rhiannon :hi:

[Enthusiast]

15. Thanks for sharing that.

I do not like the idea of more RW trolls. I have been very intolerant of them on DU2, needless to say. I'm happy with DU2.

[Raine]

22. I like it here

once DU2 is "done" so am I.

[kentuck]

23. DU2 will be done....

I would recommend signing into DU3 and checking it out. They are attempting to "rescue" as many old DUers as they possibly can before they shut it down. I think we owe it a chance. In the end, it will be whatever the DUers make it. It is the posters that make the board, not the Admins. Don't give up. Give it a chance.

[Raine]

24. THANKS Kentuck

maybe I will.

[madfloridian]

28. They only want to rescue some.

Not others.

[KoKo]

32. I find this a true statement. I've been over there...I've Tried...I won't be

spending time there. It's not a "Discussion Forum" for "Democrats Underground." It's "something" very different and I don't need to bother with it. There are other places to go.

[madfloridian]

39. I already know...

I am not that welcome there. After 9 years...

[Lorien]

54. +1. nt

[Generic Other]

69. Where will we find one another?

I don't intend to lose touch!

[Generic Other]

68. I desperately will miss your posts

Where will you post?

[Lorien]

55. "Rescue" as in take their money and push their political views to the Right

sorry, pass.

[dbt]

63. All respect, Kentuck, but I don't need rescuing.

I've seen the concern that's been demonstrated by the mocking, deriding, giggling and gibbering minions who have taken it upon themselves to visit us and tell us how bad it sucks over here and what fools we are for staying.

I've seen the new/improved DU. I've given it a chance.

No. Thanks.

[Maraya1969]

25. OMG I can't believe I've found you! I've been over at DU3 and I didn't

know anyone was back here still. I kind of figured we had to go there when it popped up that this version was obsolete. Anyway it is terrible. All sorts of Obama hating trolls and I just clicked on 3 threads that had several recs that were removed! I don't know what constitutes having a thread removed!

Any it is not a very nice place right now over there and I'm happy to be here. Can I stay?

I'm staying no matter what anyone says! I feel like I just came out of another dimension.

[Raine]

26. Of course you can stay

the more the merrier! :hi:

[Maraya1969]

27. ''sigh"

:grouphug: Thanks

[KoKo]

33. For Now...Some of us are "Occupying Old DU." It's what we felt we had to do...

I will be here until "The Lights Go Out"...others have declared that, also.

[kenny blankenship]

29. Hoping someone can answer this question - DU2 is going away, right?

At some point aren't the admins going to shut off DU2 forums and logins, leaving only DU3?

Or is incorrect information, or else, as yet uncertain?

[Raine]

30. Most likely it's going away. The question is more not IF

but when and no one knows. We're taking advantage of having it while we can, going to keep posting till we can't post any longer.

[kenny blankenship]

31. Is there a consensus, he asked, knowing the question to be absurd, about where to meetup

after DU2 is unplugged?

[Raine]

38. Lots of people have registered at LeftUnderground

and Old Elm Tree, those seem to be the main ones. Unfortunately people will probably scatter. :-(

[elocs]

41. I registered with LU, but left because it personally was not a good fit for me

and I just didn't feel comfortable there. It was simply too rabidly left for me. I guess I am too pragmatic and in touch with how the real world works to buy into an uber-left fantasyland.

There's no one-size-fits-all forum. I've checked out Old Elm Tree as well and didn't care much for it either. Maybe I'm just burned out with political forums and message boards and just need a break from them.

I'll hang around here until the lights go out, whenever that may be.

[arikara]

42. I'm checking both those out

lots of familiar faces in them. The new place... meh. I go back every couple of days hoping things have changed but sure won't be going back ever once my star dissipates and I have to face the ad barrage and all the trolls.

[robinlynne]

44. thanks. will check them both out.

[myrna minx]

71. Thanks. I'll check those out.

:hi:

[myrna minx]

34. I wanted to like the new site, but it's unreadable and the

swarms are out of control. I guess I'll stick around here until they turn out the lights and then move on. :hi:

[KoKo]

35. Welcome to the "DU Holdouts" or known as "DU DeadEnders Group!"

:hi:

[myrna minx]

36. Well it looks like I'm in good company.

:hi: It looks like there's several old timers in here. I remember how challenging is was to transition to DU2, but *sigh*, there's just too much hostility and acrimony on DU3. This week, I traipsed over there to find some freaky thread foisting some sort of loyalty pledge/oath and thought thanks but no thanks if that's the direction DU is going.

[KoKo]

37. Yep...It's the "New World." It's jarring...I won't diss the site..but, I couldn't be there

because of what I saw. I do go and check out to see if "IT" gets any better... Alas..it's really the "NEW DU."

It's what it is...and we are going to be GONE when the "Plug is Pulled" and we are kept in suspense.

:shrug:

[Rick Myers]

40. The group on this side seems to be growing!!!

DU3 is not a modification of DU2, it is an entirely new product. Problem One is the jury pool is pretty shallow. How long a user spends time in various forums influences the jury selection. It's only a matter of time...

[Rhiannon12866]

46. I agree. DU.2 was an upgrading of DU.1.

DU.3 is a whole different animal. I'm sure that this is the reason that many DUers, including old timers, are having some issues with it. I still have a lot of questions, think I'm looking for what I'm used to. I don't remember that DU.2 required much of a transition. :shrug: :hi:

[Raine]

47. I thought DU3 was going to be an updated version of DU2

the way DU2 was to DU1 but it's something totally different. If I had never been to DU and came upon DU3 I would just keeping going without registering. It's the kind of BB that I'm not attracted to and avoid like the plague.

[Divine Discontent]

49. I appreciate ALL that the admins have done in giving us a place to post our thoughts that we enjoyed

coming to, but I really like DU2, and will disappear and fade into the West if they turn out the lights here. I'll probably just websurf the series of tubes on the internets, and try to find another place I really like. I cannot stand Daily Kos, and don't really care for Huff, either, and Yahoo and AOL are full of right wing extremists.

I hope they keep DU2 running for those of us who were registered before DU3 and have the site bookmarked.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Doctor.]

56. There are indeed a LOT of new trolls

As well as many of the old ones.

The differences are easy to tell. The trolls are currently having a field day whipping up anti-Obama-Supporter sentiment. Mostly through the usual lies that Obama supporters are 'forcing their silence' or some other such nonsense. The few legitimate Obama critics are even a little taken back by the ferocious trolling.

Here's the good news though; as soon as the GE officially begins, there will be a big flushing sound and all that will remain will be Obama supporters and the Honest Obama critics. Okay, well I can hope that's all that will be left. I'm sure there will still be some trolls, but at least the dishonesty will be tamped down a bit.

I'm sorry to say that it seems likely that the few dishonest Obama supporters will likely remain, but that doesn't mean they can't be kept in check.

[kentuck]

58. Thanks for your comments...

I hope there is a flushing sound when the GE begins. The "honest" Obama critics understand that regardless of their criticisms of Obama, the Republican candidates are not acceptable alternatives.

The "old" DUers are giving the new DU3 a "democratic" appearance at the moment. My concern is that the trolls will take over or will disrupt to the point that there will no longer be any meaningful discussions.

The jury system, if operated correctly, could keep that under control, I suppose?

Thanks for your comments.

[Hissyspit]

61. Um, a lot of trolls are "pro-Obama" sentiment.

They do that to rile up the traditional DUers who understand that it DU is not "Obama Underground."

Saying all the new trolls are anti-Obama supporter is misleading.

[KoKo]

60. If you were an "Opus Cartoon" fan....then this is for you, Kentuck...

I tried to find Berkley's last Opus...but it's not available online (that I could find in search)...but a commenter said this about Opus last appearance..and the end of the cartoon:

"Opus to a better place because the anger and incivility in American politics is just too much for a soul as gentle as Opus'. I will miss that sweet little penguin and his commentary on American life."

A Hopeful and Pleasant Holiday to you, Kentuck. :hi:

[kentuck]

64. Back at ya' KoKo !

The best to you and your family this holiday season. :-)

[akbacchus_BC]

70. There are a lot of similarities according to you but it will cost regular

DUers money to participate. Whereas in the past, we can give a star for $10.00, that is no longer the case, we have to pony up $42.00. Who have that kind of money to pay for a friend to chat on a message board. I'll give that to a charity!

Merry Christmas and a happy and healthy New Year to all DUers on here.