and one of my comments got that stupid jury thing and I can't defend myself

[PatrynXX]

Did I enter a Rush or Billo site without knowing it. Never ran into that problem before. Shutting off comments because it might offend someone. had to do with atheists and I'd said innocently atheists and Christians (I am sorta one) do the same thing. Force their beliefs down others throats. and can't even reply to defend myself Someone later asked me if I sought that closed board out. Heck no. I stay far away from the atheist board because it's not my forte. it was on the front page. But I'm more pissed off I can't defend myself. Or explain anything. that jury thing needs to go... it's anti american.

Heck I have no idea what a closed board is.. So why was it even on the front page??

[texanwitch]

1. Sorry about that.

I do not like the jury thing either.

[PatrynXX]

2. I have friends of many faiths

I was just airing an opinion but more importantly 1. why was a "closed board" doing on the front page and 2 why can't I defend myself saying I didn't seek out this discussion. Even some Atheists do not like how other atheists behave. Like other Christians not liking other Christians how they behave. I didn't say all Christians force their beliefs down each others throats I just at the time said in general thats how it is. But not knowing I was basically at a gay bar and walked in as a straight man. Thats not meant to offend anyone. But walking into a gay bar and not knowing its a gay bar is well embarassing. so in this case I went to a pro atheist board and aired that opinion. ended up guilty without being able to prove my innocence. rather a sick thing to me. and we are complaining about what Obama will do with Gitmo and the Jury system does the same thing he's doing. Makes no sense to me.

[texanwitch]

6. This is one of the many reason I will not use DU3.

You can't have an opinion now, I quess.

[PatrynXX]

10. btw I have a pagan pewter calendar hanging

over the cross sometimes. simply to show I support many faiths. Being a big fantasy fan. I have many books on Arthur and wicca items. and have stood up for those who want the Wiccan religion on the tombstones at Arlington

not really sure how accurate it is. it's almost all in runes

[Old and In the Way]

25. I can't blame you for staying on DU2.

This post would have been alerted on and you'd have another one hidden. And I doubt you'd get still get it. You really need to get a little more self-awareness on what you are saying and how you say it, either here or at the other DU that you don't like.

[PatrynXX]

38. clearly

although still shouldn't have been there in the first place but I'm a major fan of george carlin and I shouldn't have to worry what I say. heck just today good ol MSNBC is apologizing to a Republican. zzzzz why , hell their gaff wasn't as bad as mine..

[NMMNG]

9. WTF?

But not knowing I was basically at a gay bar and walked in as a straight man. Thats not meant to offend anyone. But walking into a gay bar and not knowing its a gay bar is well embarassing.

You're saying you do (or would) behave differently when you happen to walk into a gay bar vs. any other bar? You'd be "embarrassed" because you couldn't get away with shitting on gay folks at a gay bar like you would elsewhere, and that would be the gay people's fault because you didn't pay enough attention to see that you were walking into a gay bar?


so in this case I went to a pro atheist board and aired that opinion. ended up guilty without being able to prove my innocence.

What innocence? You didn't pay attention to the group on which you were posting. You posted something biased and you refused to back it up with any evidence. Now you want to whine about it because you got your hand slapped?


If you're not responsible enough to own your words and who you're aiming them at you have no right to cry over the consequences. You're not a victim. Grow up and deal.

[PatrynXX]

12. thanks for twisting my words around

you must be the one off the board...

no if I walked into a gay bar and didn't know others were hitting on me.. this it would be a golden girls moment.

as for the atheist comments. well I can't own up to my words right now because it won't let me explain...

[NMMNG]

16. Here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1230274#post22

Five people in that thread asked you to explain/defend your claim. You did not. It appears you only wanted to get in a dig against atheists.


As to your complaint that you didn't know what group you were in, that's your own fault. If you didn't pay attention before you posted you have only yourself to blame. It doesn't excuse your behavior and it's no reason to leave your snide comment up.




And why is it "embarrassing" to be hit on by a guy if you're not homophobic? I'm certainly not embarrassed to be hit on by guys. I just say "thanks but I'm not interested" and get on with my life.

[Old and In the Way]

27. Did you hear the joke about this christian guy who walks into an aethist forum

and complains about 'the gay'? Keerist, I'm a heterosexual male who's been in all kinds of bars....I'd take any interest in me, by either sex, as a compliment. I guess when you aren't secure about your own sexuality, these kind of things are an issue...big enough that you go to a forum, populated by atheists (because, lets face it, there are no Christian gays) to discuss your problem.

[PatrynXX]

40. oh bother have fun

but thanks for the joke. I'm clinically depressed. I need good jokes.. not much laugh around, although sticking Craig Fergouson (sp) and Kenneth Brannaugh (again sp) probably not the best idea since all they had to come up with was vagina and he looked at the joke censor board and they okayed that.. wonder how may times he said that word or they..

[Old and In the Way]

28. I read the post and your link that NMMNG posted

You commented in the wrong forum. Your comment wouldn't have been alerted on in the Religion forum. Or if it had been, you'd probably have had the jury vote to keep it because that's the place to debate and post opinions that don't violate the SOP.

It might be a good idea to familiarize yourself first with each forum's SOP and ground rules you post in before commenting. And you really should defend your opinions instead of doing a post and run. That's part of being on a discussion board.

[noamnety]

36. Thank you.

It's awkward when someone you aren't attracted to hits on you. But I don't understand why it's extra creepy or a hilarious TV moment if the person is gay.

[DJ13]

3. I got judged without knowing it as well

Someone posted a nonsense thread in the 'meta' help section, I responded to it.

I got judged and had the post removed, the original poster just had to close his own thread.

I dont care for the lack of transparency that the jury system has.

[Raine]

4. I can't deal with that kind of thing

that's one of the reasons of stayed off of that board. Just too stressful.

[PatrynXX]

7. I left some show called Hannity and Colmbs (sp) for that

but for other reasons. but the jury think has only one mission. to make it's target mad. and I don't find that funny at all. Americans in general really do not like being censored. Edited for time and space sure, but censored , no. and not being able to defend my remark. well glad DU2 is still here but DU3 will be dead to me for awhile. I tried DU3, but you failed.

[Old and In the Way]

29. You're sadly misinformed about what DU (2 or 3) is all about.

You aren't in the public square here. There are rules and norms that this place runs under. When people don't abide, they get tombstoned. That's the ultimate censorship, no? Most of the time, the disruptors are trolls, morons, or posting with a political agenda that is the antithesis of what our community values are.

I don't think you are a disruptor, but I don't think you really understand why some of your comments are hidden.

I tried DU3, but you failed. No, you tried DU3, but you didn't understand the rules. You are only a victim if you choose to be.

[PatrynXX]

39. no I was reaction

to a provocation and the jury thing is a provocation. meaning it creates anger. thats why I said I'd wait till the morning and see how I felt about it.

I could read the rules till the sun came up and I still woulda posted that comment. Its still seems to be a bug on the site. Which someone may have tried to fix. The gay bar reference wasn't anti gay.. although I do have that background, I'm someone who's been slowly working on it.. it was a clueless reference. ie I was totally clueless I was posting a rather rash statement in a room full of atheists. as for the statement I still stand by it. Just wouldn't have posted it on that board. Although I might have tweaked it to be some. not all. ie some Christians are idiots on the right. or fringe Christians. just like their are Fringe Atheists. But again the jury thing shut me out. I couldn't apologize or change my fuck up. and I'm more mad at that than looking like an idiot.

[Old and In the Way]

49. Nothing more embarrassing then being judged by your peers on a rude or stupid comment.

It's happened to me and I had a thread hidden. Big deal. Learn from it and carry on. My only suggestion is to think about what you say and how you say it and where you say it before you say it. It will save you from more alerts and negative feedback in the future.

[Lucinda]

5. You can post in Help & Meta discussion to make a protest

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1240


And I think if you set your filters to Main on the Latest page, it would keep you from accidentally posting a response to a group that you didn't realize you were posting in...they were defaulting to show all the forums, but that has been changed, and your setting might be the old show all option.

[PatrynXX]

8. yeah but just more steps I didn't need to do on DU2

and I'll probably have to calm down first before I can think straight. When your miffed you never think straight. You do stupid things and usually Fox Nuts plays this game. Not DU.

[Lucinda]

13. Understood. You have the link if you decide you want to say something

It's never going to be a perfect system, but the Meta thread lets everyone have their say and discuss what happened openly when there is a problem, as well point out bugs, and make suggestions.

[PatrynXX]

15. certainly will try if I remember it later.

but just didn't see that coming. I shouldn't have to worry about it. we shouldn't have to worry our free speech will be censored let alone not being able to defend oneself. someone says I'm whining. well okay whatever. but not being able to explain , is borderline defamation and I cant even apologize. So how can I man up to my words if I can't respond???

[Lucinda]

17. I think I would PM the locking host

if I wanted to make a public apology & explanation, and ask them to unlock the thread so I could do that.

[Gregorian]

11. I've been on half a dozen juries. If it helps, I'm overly liberal in my judgments.

I'm quite frankly very surprised at how socially conservative some are on even these forums. I think one jury was about someone using the term "slut". And it got hidden, for gods sake.

Just be thick skinned. Most of the people on planet earth are morons. We're only monkeys who have a little extra upstairs.

And I know I'll regret posting these hideous generalizations. But what the hell.

[PatrynXX]

14. thats silly, that word is permitted in the rules

if it's needed. so the jury can censor items even if they are permitted. o-O

[Old and In the Way]

31. Where in the "rules" do you find that word "permitted".

I won't hold my breath while I wait for you to link to the cite.

[Old and In the Way]

30. Most of the juries are pretty liberal, I think.

No surprise, a liberal posting board. There was a big, multi-thread mini-meltdown on DU a few months back on the use of that word "slut". It's a pretty sensitive topic with a lot of DUers...as I found out.

[JoeyT]

33. Hiding slut probably wasn't a conservative thing.

I'd vote to hide "slut" if I were on a jury, for exactly the same reason I'd vote to hide "bitch" or a racial slur or orientation based slur.

[lbrtbell]

34. So you'd stop the Slut Walks from being promoted?

If I were on a jury, I would always vote to let the post remain, unless someone outright advocates violence against somebody.

[Gregorian]

41. I might depend on the context too. It was posted in the lounge. Humor.

Low quality humor. I believe we should be able to say anything we want. Anything that curbs any of our speech is wrong, Choice is a freedom. There are limits. And I'm still trying to learn them. I am offended by the immaturity that desires to curb any speech. To me it's the first step in a series that leads to suppression and self censorship. It's not the content. It's the context.

[PatrynXX]

46. very low quality humor

not even sure if George Carlin used it. maybe Ho.... which is probably why the daughter and singer of Don Ho, doesn't use her full name on her albums. It's simply Hoku... love her music..

[Gregorian]

48. The term was frequent on Sat. Night Live.

I feel that curbing speech is the first step toward a conservative state. That we can't say seven words over our airwaves is pathetic. Thank goodness TCM is playing uncut films. It's refreshing to hear uncensored dialog.

[Blue_In_AK]

35. I'm usually liberal on my judgments, too,

but I did vote to hide one today. The guy had 1 post, and commented in the Kentucky forum about Sen. McConnell, saying "you poor and dumb keep putting him in office." That seemed pretty mean-spirited to me, especially considering it's probably the rich who keep McConnell going.

[Gregorian]

42. I find it diffcult to know where to draw the line.

The slut post was low quality humor in the lounge. Context versus content. I believe we should be able to say everything we want. I can use the "N" word one as a colloquial gesture, or in a state of hateful racism. I don't believe the word alone is offensive. It's how it is used that makes the difference. Our speech shouldn't be confined in order to avoid offending people.

I also think that by allowing totally free speech, we enable people to reveal their true selves. I've left posts there because I want people to see what transpired.

I'm open to hearing opposing sides on this.

[Blue_In_AK]

43. I absolutely hear what you're saying,

and it's the same dilemma I've been faced with whenever I've been on a jury. I probably would have cut this guy more slack if he had been a long-time DUer, but given the fact this was his second post, it seemed pretty obvious he was a disruptor.

But I could be wrong.

[PatrynXX]

45. well that might have been asking for it

like the stupid teacher who wrote stupid across the face of a student. (yes the teacher is stupid.. can't say much about the kid but no teacher in their right mind woulda done that.)

Of course he seems to have more rights than me in being able to respond. Albeit there won't be much to save him there. And adult site I got do, if you continue to break the rules you may get banned. But even their they have more rights than I have on DU3. They can appeal the ban. No appeal yet and I hope one is in place soon. yes I do admit to sticking my foot down my throat from time to time. But in this case it wasn't quite intentional. Like accidentally saying the racial epitaph for blacks in a room full of blacks and someone had a blindfold over my head.

I'll just have to laugh this one off I guess. Sites not even a week old and I'm pulling what many pulled on Vista. which wasn't a bad program, but if DU3 does what Microsoft did with Vista. it'll lose on the PR war.... Vista still isn't a bad program but most people think it is. Like Sarah Palin claiming she can see Russia from her house. She didn't shout that down much. She didn't say it. I still swear she did but she didn't. She said something similar but didn't actually say she could see russia from her house, you can see russia from alaska though..

[Blue_In_AK]

47. You're right, she didn't say that.

It was Tina Fey who said that. I think what Sarah meant was that you CAN see Russia from Little Diomede on clear days. It's only few miles over there anyway. But from Southcentral, Wasilla more specifically? Not so much. And even Sarah isn't dumb enough to say you can.

[PatrynXX]

18. and one of my comments got that stupid jury thing and I can't defend myself

Did I enter a Rush or Billo site without knowing it. Never ran into that problem before. Shutting off comments because it might offend someone. had to do with atheists and I'd said innocently atheists and Christians (I am sorta one) do the same thing. Force their beliefs down others throats. and can't even reply to defend myself Someone later asked me if I saw that closed board out. Heck no. I stay far away from the atheist board because it's not my forte. it was on the front page. But I'm more pissed off I can't defend myself. Or explain anything. that jury thing needs to go... it's anti american.

[in_cog_ni_to]

19. Yeah, it sucks pretty bad.

They have definitely stacked the deck toward whatever message THEY choose to get out. It's not for an open discussion at all anymore.

[NMMNG]

20. You were asked by half a dozen people to defend your statement

You failed to do so. What are you whining about?

[texanwitch]

21. I knew this would happen.

The jury system is really stupid.

[Gregorian]

26. I think it can be good.

If there is going to be any moderation of the forum at all, this is a democratic way of approaching it. My only gripe is the jurors themselves, if they're too conservative. If the jurors err on the liberal side, it's a great way to go.

[Old and In the Way]

22. I was found "guilty", too, on 1 of my posts.

I didn't start a post to whine about it, though. I just don't think they got my sarcasm, no big deal.

But I guess you'd rather take a chance with the DU2 Judge (moderator) than a DU3 jury of your peers? I believe 6 sets of eyes will almost always give a better and fairer outcome than single set of eyes. As humans, we all have biases on every subject to a greater or lesser degree. Personally, I think it's a far more democratic process in determining if a poster has violated the forums SOP or expected community behavior.

I also think, knowing other posters could potentially be judging my comments and voting on them, I'm going to make sure my post says exactly want I want it convey within the guidelines of the forum I'm posting in. But that's just me.

[Lucinda]

23. I posted on your other thread with a link to where to protest

I dont know which thread youre using

[Old and In the Way]

24. Can I ask what forum you posted in?

I don't understand why it would be flagged in the religion forum, but if you were in one of other forums dedicated to discussions between True believers or Atheists, then it could have been a SOP violation. If you have a link, I'd like to check your comment out.

[iris27]

32. It was Atheists & Agnostics.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&for...

It wouldn't have been flagged in the religion forum.

[SidDithers]

37. Perhaps you should opt out of Jury duty...

since you obviously can't put aside your own biases, and simply determine if a post should be hidden or stay.

Sid

[Tesha]

44. Why not post a link here to your now-hidden post? (NT)

[Sapphocrat]

50. I know plenty of "clinically-depressed" people.

I am/have been close to more than a few compulsive cutters; I have many times taken the brunt of one longtime friend's histrionic disorder and sex addiction; one family member suffers from full-blown paranoid schizophrenia, with all the visual and aural hallucinations in the book; and I cannot count the people I know (and love) who suffer from Bipolar I or II.

And that's just off the top of my head.

It would be a disservice to all of these people -- and to myself -- to accept mental illness as an excuse for unacceptable behavior.

For instance, if someone decided to, oh, launch a personal vendetta against, say, my wife, for some imagined slight, and that vendetta spilled over and across the Internet, slapping her with a certain slur, I certainly would not forgive the offender whether he suffered from every mental illness in the entire DSM IV, or was the most completely well-adjusted human being in history.

Even my cousin -- 46 years old with the emotional maturity of an eight-year-old, an IQ of 40 (yes, I've seen the reports), and certified diagnoses of schizophrenia, Bipolar I, and the dreaded Borderline Personality Disorder -- knows the difference between acceptable and unacceptable behavior. If he is told once that certain behavior is unacceptable, he remembers, and acts appropriately in the future. Neither I nor anyone else currently in his life lets him off the hook, clucking our tongues and whispering "Poor, poor baby!" when he fails to remove his hat in a restaurant, nor when he exhibits an abhorrent lack of manners because, for the first 15 years of his life, his indulgent Mama and Papa thought he was too fragile and too "special" to do so much as pick up a broom and sweep the porch, much less reach his best (or any) potential.

He did not and does not need to be browbeaten -- only told, once, and clearly, that people around him would appreciate that he did not ruin their dinner by spitting out a piece of pineapple from a sweet-and-sour dish onto the tablecloth.

And guess what? He adjusts his behavior. No big whoop. No drama. No crying that anyone and everyone is is out to get him, that everyone is mean to him, that nobody understands him. He is noticeably happier when he knows he's acting like the rest of the grown-ups -- 'cause, you know what? He is a grown-up -- he knows it, and everyone who loves him knows it -- developmental disability and plethora of horrific mental disorders aside.

Mental illness, mental retardation, and/or a shitty hand dealt in life is never an excuse -- and should never be used as a convenient excuse -- for offending others, once one has been enlightened to the fact that his words or actions are hurtful, harmful, and/or otherwise offensive.

And if one does not know the difference between right and wrong, hurtful and innocent, offensive and inoffensive, because of one's mental illness, perhaps one's meds need to be adjusted. Certainly one's attitude does.

Just food for thought.