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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 10:08 AM
Original message
(Senior) Palestinians attack Gingrich comment on 'invented' people
Edited on Sat Dec-10-11 10:24 AM by Turborama
Source: CNN

updated 10:08 AM EST, Sat December 10, 2011

-- Senior Palestinian leaders on Saturday strongly criticized comments by Republican presidential frontrunner Newt Gingrich that the Palestinians are an "invented" people, calling them ignorant and racist.

Top Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erakat said the Gingrich remark was "the most racist statement I've ever seen."

Erakat, who has negotiated in talks with Israel and the United States, said the remarks show "how really despicable things can get" in American politics.

"Such thinking should be an alarm and concern for the world," Erakat said.

Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/10/politics/gingrich-palesti...



More slamming of his comments at the link.
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EvolveOrConvolve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
1. The headline is wrong
The Palestinians aren't "attacking" Gingrich. They are simply responding to the asshole and pointing out what a shithead he his.
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otohara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Gingrich Comment
read it again...they are attacking his comment.

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ashling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. I believe there is a certain amount
of sarcasm in the post to which you are replying
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intaglio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
2. Dear Mr Grinch-gi
What was that area of the world called before the Zionist terrorists, like the Stern Gang ousted the inhabitants?

And what were occupants of those territories called?

What do the Israelis call these dispossessed people?

What is their own name for themselves?
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aranthus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. Uh, actually.
What was that area of the world called before the Zionist terrorists, like the Stern Gang ousted the inhabitants? It went by many names in the past. Canaan, Judea, Samaria, and after the Romans drove out most, but not all, of the Jews, they renamed it Palestine. This was long before the ancestors of the present Palestinians appeared in what was then a Roman province. Also, the inhabitants were not ousted by Zionist terrorists, but by a number of means, some of it terrorism, but most of them having to do with the war that the Arabs of Palestine started to prevent the Jews from having a state in any of it.

And what were occupants of those territories called? Up until the creation of Israel, "Palestinian" referred to the Jews living in Palestine. For example, the original name of the Jerusalem Post was the Palestine Post. The Arabs living in Palestine were called Arabs, not Palestinians.

What do the Israelis call these dispossessed people? Arabs or Palestinians. The term Palestinians was appropriated by the Arabs, especially in the early 1960's when the Arab states needed a name for the anti-Israel terror group they created. The Egyptians called it the Palestine Liberation Organization. So the name was transferred to the local Arabs.

What is their own name for themselves? Originally, they called themselves Arabs. Prior to the creation of Israel, there was no national affiliation of the local Arabs to the name Palestinian. They took that name later.

Just correcting some historical misinformation. All of which has nothing to do with whether the current Palestinians are a "nation." Perhaps they are an artificially created nation, but so what? Is a test tube baby less human? Of course not. The real question is whether the Palestinians are a nation today, or are they merely a weapon for the Arab world to wield against Israel's existence? How the Palestinians came to be may illuminate that question, but it doesn't answer it.


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shaayecanaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #14
26. That is absolute nonsense...
the Arab residents of Palestine were called Palestinians long before the establishment of Israel. The Jews themselves referred to the Arab residents of Palestine as Palestinians.

For instance, the children's author Roald Dahl was stationed in North Africa during World War II and had the following exchange with a Jewish colonist in 1942, which he recorded in his autobiography "Going Solo":-

Then out came a tall bearded man, who strode amongst the children and ordered them to stand away from the plane. I clamoured out of the cockpit and the man came forth and took my hand: "Welcome to our little settlement" he said, speaking with a strong German accent. I'd heard enough English-speaking Germans in Dar Es Salaam to know the accent well and now naturally enough anything even remotely Germanic set off alarm bells in my head.

Whats more, according to my Squadron leader, this place was meant to be secret, yet here I was being met by a welcoming commmittee of fifty screaming children and a huge man with a black beard, who looked like the prophet Isaiah and spoke like a parody of Hitler. I had to wonder whether Id come to the right spot. "I didnt think anyone knoew about this", I said to the bearded man, the man smiled. "We came and cut down the corn ourselves and rolled the strip. This is our cornfield."

"But who are you, and who are these children", I asked him. "We are Jewish refugees", he said, "the children are all orphans, this is our home."

The mans eyes were startlingly bright, the black pupil in the middle of them seemed blacker and larger and brighter then any I'd ever seen and the iris around each puil was brilliant blue. In their excitement in seeing a real live fighter plane, the children began to press against it and reaching out and making the elevators and taliplane move up and down. "No, please dont do that, you might damage it", I cried. The man spoke sharply to them in German and they all fell back.

"Refugees from where", I asked him,"and how did you get here"

"Would you like a cup of coffee", he said, "lets go to my hut". He picked out three of the older boys and set them to guard the Hurricane. "Your plane will be quite safe now", he said. I followed him into a small wooden hut amongst the fig trees. There was a dark haired young woman inside, the man spoke to her in german, but did not introduce me. ...

"You seem surprised to find us here", the main said.
"I am", I said. I wasnt expecting to find anyone.
"We are everywhere, we are all over the country."
"Forgive me", I said, "but I dont understand, who do you mean by we?"
"Jewish refugees"

I really didn't know what he was talking about. Id been living in East Africa for the past two years, and in those days the British colonies were parochial and isolated, the local newspaper which was all we got to read, hadn't mentioned anything about Hitler's persecution of the Jews in 1938 and 39. Nor did i know that the greatest mass murder of human beings was taking place in Germany at the moment.
"Is this your land", I asked him.
"Not yet"
"You mean you're hoping to buy it?"
The man looked at me. "The land at the moment belongs to a Palestinian farmer. But he has given us permission to live here, and he has also allowed us some fields so we can grow our own food."
"So where will you go from here, you and all your orphans?"
"We dont go anywhere, we stay here", he said.
"Then you will all become Palestinians", I said, "or perhaps you are that already?"
He smiled again, presumably at the naivete of my question.
"No", he said, "I do not expect that we will become Palestinians."

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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #14
31. Notable Palestinian political activities.
These words below are not mine - the are the writing of our moderator Lithos - dated Nov. 29, 2006



Notable Palestinian political activities.

1899 - Palestinian Mayor of Jerusalem pleaded with the Chief Rabbi of France to "Leave Palestine alone".
1907 - Palestinian representatives go to Constantinople to plead for the implementation of restrictions against Jewish immigration.
1908 - Founding of the newspaper "Al-Karmil"
1911 - Haram al-Sharif incident where a British archaeological group helped by several Ottoman officials were discovered excavating under the Dome of the Rock; this prompted significant political outrage by Palestinian groups against the Ottoman government.
- Founding of the newspaper, "Filastin" (Palestine)
1919 - First Palestinian National Congress meets and sends two people to the Paris Peace talks demanding Independence. There would be 6 more up Congresses up to 1935.
1920 - French conquer Syria. Most Nationalists start thinking and talking in terms of Palestine, not "Greater Syria". The Second Congress of Muslim-Christian Associations which at the first Congress (1919) declared its position for a combined Greater Syria now proclaimed its support for an Independent Palestine.
1921 - Founding of the Palestinian Arab Action Committee by Jamal al-Husayni
- Foundation of the Palestinian Communist Party later evolved through various steps into today's PPP.
1922 - Founding of the Supreme Muslim Council by the British as a parallel group to the Jewish settler groups.
1925 - Founding of the Palestinian Arab Workers Society by Sami Taha
1934 - Founding of the National Defence Party by Raghib al-Nashashibi
1935 - Founding of the National Bloc by Abd al-Latif Salah
- Sheikh Qassam decided that the diplomatic approch of Grand Mufti Husseini was not succeeding launched a series of attacks. He became the first significant Palestinian "hero" upon his death in 1935 which also provided the spark for the Great Arab Revolt in Palestine from 1936-39;
- Founding of the Palestinian Arab Party by Jamal al-Husayni as a successor of the Palestinian Arab Action Committee
- Founding of the Reform Party by Husayin al-Khalidi in Palestine on 23 June 1935.
1936 - Founding of the "Arab Higher Committee", a shadow parliament/organization of Palestinian parties.
1944 - Musa Alami was elected by Palestinian political parties to represent Palestine at the Arab Congress. It was his recommendations which provided much of the language and thought for the Arab League's non-military actions against Israel. These included the fund for the development of Palestine, lobbying for embargos against Jewish goods from Palestine,
1947 - Husseini (Grand Mufti) made the case for Palestinian independence at the Arab League meeting

1948+ saw a different phase. One notable example was the foundation of the All Palestine Congress in 1948 which served as a shadow government.

The general ideas are that prior to 1920, Nationalism was generally pan-Arab or for a Greater Syria. However, the issues of Jewish colonization and perceived excessive Western influence and meddling in Palestine helped spark the first major Palestinian political efforts and self-identity. 1917-1920 saw tremendous changes through the Balfour Agreement the failure and perceived sell-out by Faisal, and the French conquest of Syria. By 1920, Palestinian identity supplanted that of the pan-Syrian one. The foundation of Palestinian political parties and the first Palestinian Congresses begins at this time. Another wave of political activities began in 1935 when a reactionary movement started against those advocating diplomacy with the British. This ultimately resulted in the 1936-39 revolt and the 1939 White Paper which altered the Balfour Agreement. (In effect, the Palestinians politically forced a change to the Balfour Agreement - again another example of Palestinian identity).

As for the Arab League, the issue was not one of Palestinian Independence, but rather as to which group should have preeminence as various countries vied to nominate people who were favorable to them.

"Those Arabs who left and ended up in the refugee camps of those Pan-Arab states were not leaving Israel as the first step along the way to some "Palestinian statehood".

Those who left were trying to avoid the fighting and had no intention of being gone long. The general perception was that the Arab Armies would have won militarily and they would return fairly soon to their homes.

The main reason Israel exists now is not due to any moral superiority, but because they were more prepared to fight. Nothing wrong with that at all, it is just a fact and actually quite common for the time period (ex: the separation of Pakistan and India has many parallels in terms of how the refugee situation occurred.). However, discussions which try to deny a Palestinian identity are only trying to claim a false sense of morality about what happened. They also are part and parcel of the language used by ultra-Nationalists such as Lieberman and terrorists such as Kahane who rely on such false morality to help justify their outrage and their agendas.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

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sulphurdunn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
3. Gingrich is the uber poster child
for hubristic sociopathology. He doesn't give a shit about anyone but himself and probably isn't capable of it. His biography makes that self-evident. If he thought it benefited him to join the Aryan Nation tomorrow he'd do it and call for the expulsion of Jews the same way he implies it for Palestinians today. What is most unforgivable about this grifter however is that he is such a lousy historian.
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ashling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. hubristic sociopathology
he is one scary sonofabitch, that's for sure. Are we sure that he didn't escape from a Steven King novel?
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
5. "how really despicable things can get" in American politics.
Never a truer word spoken.
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krucial Donating Member (103 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
6. Will do anything
Most christian americans will do and say anything to appease Israel.
If Israel says most non Jew Americans are Satan's children,many of them will believe it,even though they are part of the evil.
I will repeat this statement by this one so caled Veteran of the Army,on a site called Soda head, A christianand staunch supporter of Israel,said that if it comes down to it,he would turn his gun on America in defense of Israel,thats how sick many Americans are when it comes to "groveling" at feet of Israeli leaders
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COLGATE4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. Are you sure you didn't mean to post this at F.R.?
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snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
7. After hearing this remark I came to DU expecting it to be bold, front page
material! Horrible remark by Gingrich.
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HoosierCowboy Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
8. Invented by God maybe
Read the Old Testament and there you will find the Palestinian people. The old name: Phillistines.
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aranthus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. That's completely untrue.
The Phillistines were a Greek related people who lived on the coast. The Palestinians are descended from Arab conquerors from a few thousand years after the Phillistines were gone from the scene. They are no more related to them than they are to the Canaanites.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #10
28. Thanks for correcting that -- !!
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HoosierCowboy Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #10
35. Palestinians
Lived along the coast, like maybe where the Gaza Strip is right now?
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hughee99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
9. I'm pretty sure getting "attacked by (Senior) Palestinians" will only help his primary campaign. n/t
Edited on Sat Dec-10-11 01:49 PM by hughee99
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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
11. The saddest part is that genetically, the Palistinians are just non-Diaspora Jews
There's a kind of myth, which Gingrich is perpetuating when he refers to the Palestinians as "Arabs" that all the Jews were kicked out of Palestine by the Romans, leaving the country essentially empty, until a bunch of Arabic-speaking intruders moved in. But that just isn't so.

http://epiphenom.fieldofscience.com/2009/01/shared-gene...

The classic study dates to 2000, from a team lead by Michael Hammer of University of Arizona. They looked at Y-chromosome haplotypes - this is the genetic material passed from father to son down the generations.

What they revealed was that Arabs and Jews are essentially a single population, and that Palestinians are slap bang in the middle of the different Jewish populations.

Another team, lead by Almut Nebel at the Hebrew University, Jerusalem, took a closer look in 2001. They found that Jewish lineages essentially bracket Muslim Kurds, but they were also very closely related to Palestinians. In fact, what their analysis suggested was that Palestinians were identical to Jews, but with a small mix of Arab genes - what you would expect if they were originally from the same stock, but that Palestinians had mixed a little with Arab immigrants.

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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #11
32. !!
Wow! Thanks for posting this.
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aranthus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #11
34. Not exactly.
There is a relation, but Palestinians also have elements from the Arab invaders. In any event, genetics has very little to do with human relationships, including this conflict. Europeans come from very similar stock, and have warred with each other for hundreds of years.
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scentopine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
16. Newt is deliberately provoking a volatile confrontation with people under seige
let's hope he is the only recipient of any backlash and innocent people aren't hurt in the process.
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
17. He'd be a fine Middle East peace negotiator as president...
I think the closer he gets to the presidency, the more obvious it is what an arrogant asshat he is.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #17
29. ... especially with Bolton working on it for him -- !!! YIKES!!
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Charlemagne Donating Member (94 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
18. All race, nationality, and ethnicity are social constructions
So on an academic point, I agree with gingrich.

However, he means that it is acceptable to push around the Palestinians because they are "less" than people when compared to Israelis or Americans. That's not cool.
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aranthus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. Well said. Excellent post. n/t
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connecticut yankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
19. Just a cheap way
Edited on Sat Dec-10-11 03:03 PM by connecticut yankee
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. Not really - more likely the Christian evangelical vote
Most Jews would thing the comment inflammatory. 80% of American Jews favor a two state solution per a poll that JStreet commissioned.

Even the minority that argue that the name is of recent origin do not question that these people - no matter what you call them are from the areas that are now part of Israel, the West Bank or Gaza. Newt's comment is beyond stupid and shows that - PHD in history or not - he is an ignorant man with no insight into diplomacy.
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sarchasm Donating Member (53 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
20. The only invention is Newt's id.
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SoapBox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
21. Sir Newt of Tiffany...idiot supreme.
What a maroon.
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Mosaic Donating Member (851 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
24. the guy, gingrick, just makes shit up
He's a trouble maker, a shit stirrer, a hell raiser. He knows he's full of shit. Don't worry these types deep down have low self esteem.

republicans at their core are deeply un-American, should be a bumper sticker.
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
25. I read this on my iPad last night and wanted to hide under the bed
Absolutely shocking that ANYONE let alone someone running for the office of president, could say something so stupid, so ignorant and bigoted.
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WranglerRog Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
27. Uh, G'newt
If anyone is an invented people, it's us. Second Americans are not an ancient people nor are we tribal, nor are we homogenous. Nothing wrong with that. Just the way it is. Once again G'newt is what a stupid person thinks a smart person sounds like.
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
30. The guy's spent his life in Palestinian politics and he calls *this* the most racist thing he heard?
Newt may be just as hateful and narrowminded as the PLO, but he's not exactly topping the bar here. A pox on both their houses.

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
33. Agree ... "Such thinking should be an alarm and concern for the world"
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
36. Palestinians think Gingrich is "out of touch with reality".
Well, somebody had to say it. :shrug:
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
37. proves gingrich is unfit to serve....a president needs compassion
Edited on Sat Dec-10-11 05:41 PM by spanone
and intelligence
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