What did OWS do?

[Taverner]

Hmmmm let's recap the news over the past few weeks, shall we:

- DOJ is starting to prosecute Wall Street criminals

- The news is reporting on economic injustice

- Fresh-out-of-college grads are trying their hardest to unionize

- Unions are gaining strength

- Wisconsin's recall efforts are looking really good

- Elizabeth Warren is in the lead in MA

- The Tea Party is dying a sad, lonely death

So, I guess it was all a bunch of smelly hippies and their drum circles, eh?

[truedelphi]

1. The state of New York is now making damn sure that

Its state tax code is progressive and not regressive.

Before this alteration, the tax code treated everyone who made 20K a year or more alike. Twenty k, and living on food stamps, and you paid the same amount in state taxes as the millionaires and billionaires.

[TheWraith]

5. No, it's not. Cuomo is still trying to substantially lower taxes on millionaires. nt

[RoccoR5955]

69. Perhaps you should read the news from Albany for today

As far as I can tell, there's a proposal to RAISE taxes on the 1% in NY.
Add that to the list of #OWS accomplishments!

[truedelphi]

71. Great to hear confirmation that what I heard is happening.

Sometimes what I think is truth is only rumor.

Good that in this case it is not.

[truedelphi]

2. K & R. n/t

[Courtesy Flush]

3. I have a lot of faith in this movement

They're doing the right thing, for the right reasons. They may not succeed, but they've got people talking about issues that need to be addressed.

[defendandprotect]

67. +1 --

[Gregorian]

4. And the context of discussion is that we're divided into 1% and 99%

I feel that alone is a massive accomplishment.

[DCBob]

6. -- The President is incorporting OWS issues into his speeches.

This is what President Obama meant when he said "push me".

[me b zola]

76. Thats comforting

For the president to do his job, he needs us to be arrested, beaten, ridiculed, and denied our most basic civil liberties.

[TheWraith]

7. Frankly, you're offering way too much credit.

You're trying to rationalize a connection to a lot of things that were in the cards anyway, like the extent to which the Tea Party was already dead, Warren's success in MA, the fact that the DOJ has already been working on Wall Street cases for a long while, et al.

[unionworks]

9. Give Credit

Where credit is due...oh, wait...thanks to wall street there is no more credit.

[randome]

12. You are right.

OWS has done a lot of noble things but not everything the OP mentioned.

And it could have done a lot more a lot faster and more effectively if they didn't waste time defending the right to take over public parks and other nonsense.

The planned marches on Washington and Congress are a step in the right direction.

[AllyCat]

40. W e have done a slew of marches and not a damn thing has happened

I don't think marches help much except to rally the troops while the leaders ignore. We have to do things that get media attention, even if it is negative attention. They aren't listening to what we have done. I'm not saying OWS doesn't need to find other effective actions, but marches, mousepad rebellions, petitions, and calling and writing our leaders don't help much when the corporations are REALLY the ones paying them.

[Bluenorthwest]

26. Frankly, not enough credit is given. In a few short weeks OWS

utterly rewrote the lexicon of our social dialog. Politicians pay millions to 'consultants' in attempts do introduce terms and phrases and that golden term for a phrase 'the frame'. Yes, they did what no DC 'talent' could do. They did it por nada, not for a fee, not for a candidate, yet here it is, here is Obama talking about the 1% and the man had plenty of time to have mentioned that in the past yet he had not.
So let me know when the DNC stops doing 'test groups' to 'try out' new frames and phrases, when words do not matter in politics, when some OFA staffer changes the terms of the discourse, let me know.
For years on DU I hear 'the GOP knows how to work the media, why can't we frame the discussion like that'. Well OWS did just that.

[kenfrequed]

35. This is important.

Changing language and creating memes and shifting the very conversation was crucial and it wasn't going to be handled by the spin doctors and message managers. Most of those that work for the Democratic party seem to be all to compliant to the DLC/third way corporate policies anyhow so they would never use words that are too strong or direct the coversation too pointedly at the wealthy and ruling class.

[JackRiddler]

44. Yes, yes, yes!

[Pooka Fey]

52. + 1

[sibelian]

59. I wish I could recommend this a thousand times...

[Myrina]

61. +10

Well said.

[bullwinkle428]

62. At DU, if something good happens, and the "powers that be" of

the Democratic party can't put their hands all over it to claim credit, then it didn't really happen!

[oldhippydude]

66. try as they might

they cant unring the bell.. all the reich's horses and all the reichs men.. cant undo the movement.. September 17th was my 65 birthday.. my god this is bigger than the 60's already..(thanks for the birthday present)

it will soon shake your windows and rattle your halls, for the times they are a changin

[shireen]

68. well said! nt

[GrannyK]

74. You are right!

Yes, Yes, Yes and Yes.

[Doctor_J]

99. Please point us to the totally rewritten lexicon

Besides 99%. And to a couple examples of how we're now "working the media"

[Bluenorthwest]

29. Of course Warren has made rhetorical hay out of OWS so

I don't think she'd say they have not aided her. I also suspect she's say it is a tad early to say 'success' as the election is many months away.

[unionworks]

K&R

Republican strategists are scared of hippies!

[unionworks]

8. K&R

Republican strategists are scared of hippies!

[Hutzpa]

10. Wish I can kick this a thousand times

despite of all the negativity, OWS are more successful than anyone can dream of,
"we are the change we've been waiting for"

Paper cuts my dear friend, paper cuts.

[myrna minx]

11. But but but it's just a bunch of smelly hippies wandering around a park chanting -

- or so I have read right here on DU.

I think they've been *highly* effective.

[CTyankee]

38. If they weren't effective, the RW wouldn't be in a panic over them!

I think the 1% are scared shitless...

[patrice]

13. K&R

[tex-wyo-dem]

14. I think the most important thing that #OWS has done is to...

start the conversation. People are talking about the issues now, even ppl who are not close to Occupy campaigns...lots of people, and it's resonating in a dramatic fashion all over the world.

I think many know in their core that something isn't right, but just can't (or couldn't) put it into words. OWS is the voice many have been looking for.

[T S Justly]

15. K&R.

[ThomWV]

16. Not one of those things can be attributed to OWS.

Not a single one of those things dates from after the creation of OWS. It was responsible for none of them.

[Taverner]

18. Mmmmmkay....

[Enthusiast]

25. Yeah

[AllyCat]

37. All of those things have gained momentum with OWS.

[Dawgs]

64. That's what racists said about the civil rights movement.

You should be embarrassed for posting something so stupid.

[shireen]

72. that's not constructive

instead of belittling him, why don't you politely explain your reasons, see if you can change his mind? Putting people down is so unnecessary.

[applegrove]

17. And repugs are coaching each other not to use the word "capitalism". We got there

word. After only 11 weeks, as Michael Moore said, the 99% destroyed the word.

[tavalon]

19. Don't go getting all past tense on us!

We aren't gone. We are legion.

[Scuba]

20. OWS changed the national conversation from debt to income inequality. Big plus for that alone. n/t

[Cid_B]

21. The good harvest this year come about as a result of their efforts too?

Prettier children? abundance of skimpier bikinis?

[pintobean]

22. I will believe when

Albert Pujols signs with the Cardinals.

[malaise]

23. I love them

OWs Rock!!

[Enthusiast]

24. OWS has been a resounding success.

They speak on my behalf. I love them.

[Bluenorthwest]

27. What is OWS doing....

it is not a past tense situation, as much as the GOP/Centrist types snarl and attempt to degrade their accomplishments, OWS is ongoing. Let's face it, many who post on DU are in the political profession, and it will freak them out to see OWS do in a few weeks what they claim is if not impossible, at least highly expensive requiring many fees to 'consultants' and money for 'outside focus groups' and lots of long lunch meetings. OWS not only changed the nature of the discourse, it did it quickly, easily and without creating profit for OWS. This frightens the political ad folk, the consultants, the stylists, the entire construct in which tens of thousands are spent trying to decide on a tie for a candidate.
OWS did it all without a single 'media buy'. Fear strikes the Industry.

[Zorra]

102. Yes. nt

[kaffy4x4]

28. OWS movement

has brought to light those issues that 99% of us were well aware of but were never talked about in the media and rarely talked about in communities. They're efforts and continued efforts shine a bright NEWS light on these issues collectively, openly and does away with the feeling that we were all alone in our fears, frustrations and desperation's. What people like Luntz fail to "get" is that this is about Governance, not political parties. That is what the establishment, the 1% is so afraid of. There is no dividing line in Governance, there are no political parties, it's about doing, not saying. Buzz words and manipulation such as what Luntz peddles makes no difference when your looking at actions and holding those people accountable for those actions. Luntz is out of a job.

[Courtesy Flush]

30. They made conservatives love their government

Seems like they've done a 180, from blaming the government for all that's wrong in the world, to praising it for its cruelty.

[kctim]

31. Seriously?

OWS hasn't done those things and it doesn't represent me or anybody I know.

If you are going to be recapping news, you need a different news source.

[chervilant]

33. Seriously?

And, your tagline suggests that you self-identify as a '1% er'?

Do you think our global economy is 'recovering'? Do you think radical income inequity is irrelevant? Do you--or "anybody" you know--recognize that percentages of homeless and unemployed people are increasing globally? Do you--or "anybody" you know--recognize that banks solicited and received trillions of our tax dollars to remain solvent?

If you are going to disrespect #Occupy, you need a better argument.

[Zhade]

42. Or an argument, period.

Looks like some posters are scared to admit the impact OWS has already had.

[kctim]

53. Sigh

I've used that "tagline" since before OWS. It's a way of life, not political.

I believe, just as OUR President does, that our economy is slowly on the road to recovery. I do not believe, as Rush, Hannity etc... that our economy is on the road to ruin.

I believe, just as OUR President does, that income inequality needs to be better addressed, but I do not believe as most on here do, that socialism instead of capitalism is the answer.

Of course there are more homeless Americans because there are more unemployed Americans. Call me crazy, but I have a feeling that is why OUR President is fighting to help lower that number.

You wish for a better argument? Ok, why not. Perhaps you will be the first person to give fact based answers instead of trying to derail off topic.

Who is responsible for the use of our tax dollars?
Who do we entrust to make critical decisions that affect our country? What would have happened if those people would not have chosen to keep those banks solvent?
Who is more likely to change how the system works, the persons receiving the money or the ones giving out the money?
What is the ONLY entity with the power to properly address OWS "demands?"

I don't disrespect OWS, I'm just not going to take it seriously or respect it until it gains the support it needs to make its anti-capitalism fantasies a reality.

[PETRUS]

54. Have you been getting crap about your tagline since OWS?

What does your tagline mean to you?

[kctim]

88. Every now and then by non-thinkers

It's a 'term' that has been around since the late 40s and it's all about "biking and brotherhood."

[PETRUS]

100. I wondered if that was your reference!

Although some people might give you crap about that too, I suppose.

[chervilant]

57. hmm...

Would you like a little cheese to go with that whine?

BTW, #Occupy is not about replacing capitalism with socialism. Perhaps you should gather more information about #Occupy before you post evaluative (disrespectful) comments about their efforts.

[kctim]

89. Aw, guess I was wrong

No different than the others who fall in line but don't know why.

And, btw, I didn't mention replacing capitalism with socialism, did I? No, what I said was anti-capitalism, which, IF you were to actually take the time and learn about what you are supporting, is what one finds when they 'gather information' about OWS.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

92. "that socialism instead of capitalism is the answer." Did you even read what you posted? nt

[chervilant]

101. Pathetic...

I believe, just as OUR President does, that income inequality needs to be better addressed, but I do not believe as most on here do, that socialism instead of capitalism is the answer.

See, that's the downside of blogging, for those who seek to revise what they've previously posted...

[chervilant]

103. Oh, and PS:

You STILL have a lot of research to do. The #Occupy protesters I've met are not 'anti-capitalism.' Please, talk to the people who are participating in #Occupy, and appreciate the broad range of their concerns, not to mention their commitment to non-violence and Satyagraha.

[Dawgs]

63. Yet you continue to use it.

You should be embarrassed; for many reasons.

[kctim]

90. Then give me one of those reasons.

[Taverner]

82. OWS is not anti-capitalist. If anything, it is pro-captialist

As in, it wants economic injustice to end so that capitalism can start functioning again

I'll show my cards up front: I'm a Socialist with Anarchist Sympathies, but you probably know that already. But I would rather see it get better before it gets better, than it getting worse before it gets better. IN short, I'd rather see capitalism get corrected so families can eat and get healthcare.

[kctim]

91. Well thought out and reasoned response Tav

But, while I agree with it, that isn't really what one comes away with when seeking information on their websites or by watching their livestreams. They preach about why they THINK they are the "99%" but they don't really get into what they think should be done about it. Unless you read the forums and comments. There you find anti-capitalism at its worst.
Even the GA 'demands' are a muddled mess that do not concentrate on perceived economic injustice and suggested solutions, but instead delve intp treatment of animals and opinions of the environment.

IF OWS wants majority support, it needs to clearly tell Americans what they are about AND what their solutions are. A PR lady to counter media bias wouldn't hurt either.

[Taverner]

104. Yes there are many instances of INDIVIDUALS being anti-capitalist

But as a whole, it tends towards fairness, rather than one corporate vision rules all


Teddy Roosevelt was one of our more capitalist presidents

He was also an agent of change against trusts, the derivative brokers of the time...


OWS is about capitalist fairness

Create jobs or be cast out

Anything else is an abstraction

[hack89]

77. That "1% er" probably means he is biker

they have called themselves that since the late 40's.

[eilen]

86. Life is good in the bubble. Apparently. nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

81. You really need to start paying attention

In between the bubbly and the caviar crustini.

[Marrah_G]

32. xoxoxoxo Occupiers

[riverbendviewgal]

34. awesome

Even my redneck bubba brother says he agrees with them, just not their camping and garbage...but if they made a dent in his opinions it is awesome.

[AllyCat]

36. I have a much easier time talking to people about union issues at work

They area all seeing parallels between OWS and workplace "changes". CEO is making a mint while we are being asked to make more sacrifices because of the economy. Little trouble getting people to sign those recall petitions...now we have to fight voter ID and those horrible WI redistricting plans.

[PA Democrat]

39. I see the usual contingent of naysayers have weighed in.

Since they seem to know what works and what does not work, I say they need to GO FOR IT. Feel free to start the next great movement for change.

I'll add that there is more discussion of the unemployment rate, income inequality and less discussion of reducing the national debt in the MSM than there was before the Occupy movement. If not the Occupy movement, what caused the change?

[Huey P. Long]

41. Do not waste too much of your time with detractors. They are a 'heat sink'.

They are trying to get you to spend your time defending what is patently obvious to us. Rehashing the same tired objections and repeating RW and establishment talking points. Don't waste your time, imo.

Peace, and occupy.

[AllyCat]

43. You're right. It is maddening that people here do not see the obvious

but then I suspect many are paid posters, or Blue Dogs, or (fill in blank). We can see what happens. On a personal level, I have seen this in action at my union workplace. OWS has made a difference. Just by getting people to talk about it negatively has opened up some great discussions. We need discussion. The media is not providing us with information, so discourse is going to get people to rethink what they hear. Sometimes. And that's better than never.

[chervilant]

56. Too true.

But, I am adding some names to my ignore list, since I've had enough of the negativity. IOW: If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem...

[kctim]

96. Bravo!

Why face facts when you don't agree with them?
Self made problems are always best handled by ignoring them.

[kctim]

94. Seeing how the support OWS needs is not there

the logical accumption is that the majority of Americans do not share your OPINIONS of what is "patently obvious." So the question is, do you continue to blame the RW and the media or do you educate people?

[JackRiddler]

45. Don't forget the WORLD!

The impact on other nations has been enormous. Protests here legitimate and encourage protests elsewhere, and (to a lesser extent) vice-versa. Some of this is image, but image becomes reality. People in Greece or Egypt see anti-capitalist protests in the US, and they're thrilled that it's happening there, and they think of it as though it's on the same scale as in their countries (more like one-tenth, but it doesn't matter). They redouble their efforts, express solidarity, and encourage the protests in the US.

A virtuous cycle, as they say.

[raouldukelives]

46. K&R

I've actually been able to discuss the link between stock ownership, destruction of the environment and the loss of our democracy with family members over the holidays that would have shut me down before.
They would still rather have a slightly more comfortable retirement than a better world for people 100 years from now but its a start. Thanks OWS!

[randome]

47. OWS has helped change the conversation.

But it was responsible for none of the things you mention. NONE.

And stupid stunts like trying to put up structures on public land and hunger strikes and crap like that only detracts from the message.

No one here is saying OWS has not had an effect on things. Let's agree on that.

But it's amazingly self-deceiving of people to think it is RESPONSIBLE for everything you choose to list.

The mentality among some is "You are either with us or against us" -the same kind of fascist CRAP we have had to put up with since Bush, Jr.

It boggles the mind.

[SixthSense]

48. wait, what?

"DOJ is starting to prosecute Wall Street criminals"

Who? Where?

[Highway61]

49. K & R

And may your list grow longer in the coming months

[byronius]

50. Changed everything, within a matter of weeks.

Someday, there'll be tent statues across the country.

[woo me with science]

51. And more attorneys general are prosecuting banks and distancing from settlement talks.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-12-07/california-...

[bertman]

55. And you didn't even list "bringing together hundreds of thousands of Americans

of all ages, races, backgrounds, and political persuasions, who are FED UP with the status quo and who might otherwise still be at home screaming at their TeeVees instead of joining together in this movement."

REC.

Great thread.

OCCUPY!!

[woo me with science]

58. Well said. nt

[Life Long Dem]

60. "did" is so past tense.

Look at what they are accomplishing and the best part is that they just got started.

[jimlup]

65. I would prefer that we phrase the question differently:

What has OWS done so far? We can't allow the corporate media meme that the movement is over now survive.

[Taverner]

80. Agreed nt

[Rex]

70. I LOVE how OWS pisses off all the RIGHT people!

LOVE IT! Watching them eat their own shoes out of frustration (that they cannot make OWS go away like their paymasters want it to) is AWESOME! Their mighty M$M machine cannot defeat OWS! :ROFL:

[JDPriestly]

73. The City of LA (and maybe Albany, New York too)

passed a resolution supporting a constitutional amendment to overturn Citizens' United. The movement is officially under way. Hurrah for Occupy LA and the LA City Council. The vote was unanimous by all the councilmembers attending.

[RoccoR5955]

75. And all in less than 3 months!

There are some missing, but the main point is that #OWS has awakened the masses as to the injustice that has been done to most of us for the past 30 or so years. This, in itself, is a monumental accomplishment, which will show in the 2012 election.
Remember that this has been Phase I of the Movement. Phase II is on the way, with more actions, more awareness, and more organization, as the Winter sets in. Come the Spring, there will be more actions outdoors, and hopefully a huge National General Assembly around the 4th of July. Look for these and more actions, as the time comes.
There may be no leaders to this Movement, but there are logical steps that we should take, if we are to get our government back. We have to take it, because they will not give it back easily, so first, we try to take it back from within. I think that if we do this, we will have the best, and most peaceful result possible.

[Uncle Joe]

78. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Taverner.

[bvar22]

79. AND...

....OWS forced President Obama to discard Republican memes like Slashing Spending & The DEFICIT,
and START talking about the failure of Trickle Down.




You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.
Solidarity99!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Doctor_J]

83. The "Tea Party Is Dying" meme

really, really bad tactics to make such a statement. We have heard the same thing about the Limbeciles for 20 years. If you want to make progress, step 1 is admitting exactly where you are. Pronouncing the Teabaggers dead is not reality-based.

[eilen]

87. There was an article recently published in the NYT

citing the popularity of the Tea Party on the decline. Perhaps you missed it. There is so much posted and talked about these days, it is easy to miss some news.

http://www.pewtrusts.org/our_work_report_detail.aspx?id...
More Now Disagree with Tea Party – Even in Tea Party Districts

Nov 29, 2011

Since the 2010 midterm elections, the Tea Party has not only lost support nationwide, but also in the congressional districts represented by members of the House Tea Party Caucus. And this year, the image of the Republican Party has declined even more sharply in these GOP-controlled districts than across the country at large.

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2011/11/30/the-d... -

http://www.therightperspective.org/2011/12/05/tea-party... /
More Americans now disagree than agree with the Tea Party, a sign that rank-and-file members of the conservative grassroots movement may have become disillusioned with their representatives in Washington.

The Pew Research Center survey, conducted between November 9-14, shows 27-percent disagree, and 20-percent agree, with the Tea Party. This is a direct opposite of attitudes surveyed last year, when the GOP made sweeping gains in midterm congressional elections.

Support for the Tea Party in the 60 House districts represented by members of the Congressional Tea Party Caucus has also dropped, the survey finds. About as many people living in Tea Party districts disagree (23-percent) as agree (25-percent) with the Tea Party.

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/07/22/273766/tea... /
A ThinkProgress investigation, however, shows a far different picture. Indeed, empirical evidence points to one conclusion: Tea Party activity has declined sharply thus far in 2011.
For this report, ThinkProgress examined the total number of events across the country listed on the Tea Party Patriots (TPP) and Americans for Prosperity (AFP) websites each month. We then compared the number of Tea Parties that occurred in 2010 with the number that took place in the first seven months of 2011.
The results were startling. For TPP, fewer than half the number of Tea Party events took place in the first seven months of 2011 compared to the same time period in 2010. Furthermore, while an average of 337 Tea Parties were held across the country each month of 2010, this year that number has dropped to just 166 events per month and continues to decline

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/dec/2/tea-part... /
A new Pew Research Center survey shows support for the Tea Party has declined both nationally and in the districts represented by the 60 House members of the Tea Party Caucus. Much of this can be attributed to the natural falloff in enthusiasm during a non-election year, but it may also be a sign of disillusionment with their representation in Washington.

One out of 5 Americans said they agree with the Tea Party movement, 27 percent disagree and half have no opinion. The positives and negatives are reversed from the wave election of 2010 that gave Republicans control of the House. In Tea Party districts, support fell from a high of 33 percent a year ago to 25 percent now

http://www.capitolhillblue.com/node/41744
Tea party more unpopular than atheists and Muslims

By DOUG THOMPSON
August 19, 2011

The tea party: Just a bunch of white racists
The future is anything but bright for the tea party. The faux grassroots movement started by a GOP consultant and funded by the billionaire Koch Brothers is now less popular than atheists and Muslims and ranks almost as low as the Christian ultra-right in the view of mainstream Americans.

A New York Times/CBS News poll shows tea party support down to 20 percent while unfavorable opinions of the group have doubled.

[Doctor_J]

98. OK. Let's see how many of them get voted out next year

[grantcart]

84. Its having an impact in the marketplace as well

Went to the bank and they had greeters and all of the tellers were full of greetings and - no lines.

Also on the way home saw a big billboard

IS YOUR BANK CHASING YOU AWAY?

It was for a credit union.


The Chase branch was about two blocks away.

[DireStrike]

85. I attribute the reversal on the millionaires tax, to OWS

Also some federal cash for the MTA allowing the city to put fare hikes off the agenda for the next year, at least...

The ruling class is running out of maneuvering room, and OWS is helping that manifest.

[MoonRiver]

93. K&R!

This movement has had a huge impact on the system. Obama is finally waking up to the fact that people don't just want, they demand, the change he promised. PTB are starting to realize that 99% of Americans are sick and tired of being screwed and will NOT take it any more. Empowered youth, our future btw, are taking back the country, one city at a time. That is the definition of grass roots!

[pinboy3niner]

95. Some foreclosure sales stopped, banks negotiate with foreclosed homeowners...

...in response to the "Occupy Our Homes" action Tuesday:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[Taverner]

105. 100% On Board with the OccupyOurHomes aims

This is the logical next step

[mmonk]

97. Yes. I need new deodorant.