Durbin admits: " Gov. has been using Soc. Sec. funds to pay for other programs".

[dixiegrrrrl]

Full quote:
Senator Dick Durbin, the chamber’s second-ranking Democrat, also rejected the complaints.
He said the government has been borrowing surplus Social Security revenue to pay for other programs,
and promising to repay it later with other tax revenue, so the money has already been mixed.

“This is not the first time,” he said.

This comment buried in a long story about Pres. Obama's plan to extend Soc Sec tax cuts.
Which is well worth the read itself.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-12-05/payroll-tax-cuts-seen-by-some-obama-allies-as-undermining-social-security.html

How the government realistically plans to both reduce funding of the Soc Sec program
while spending the money it does take in for other programs
AND paying that created debt from future revenues during a severe recession is beyond logic.

[liberal N proud]

1. With no intentions of paying it back

They will just kill the program rather than honor the commitment.

Lying thieves.

[bullimiami]

4. I have no doubt that has been the plan all along.

[Enthusiast]

17. It is called "starve the beast".

It is a Republican strategy that was first suggested by Newt Gingrich in the early 1990s but not fully implemented until the selection of George W Bush as President. It is a real policy.

[gratuitous]

19. They stole it fair and square

Insisting that the beneficiaries give it back is class warfare, bub!

[whathehell]

24. LOL...n/t

[Scuba]

2. The logic is simple: steal the Social Security trust fund and everything else possible....

... forget paying the debt; just dump it on the People.

[dixiegrrrrl]

3. Yet WE continue paying our debts to the banks.

I think there is something seriously wrong with our country.

[Scuba]

6. You always were quick on the pick-up. n/t

[Enthusiast]

18. Glad you could join the team.

[woo me with science]

28. We are the only ones with actual consequences for not paying.

If we don't pay, they take the house and the car.

[quaker bill]

5. There is no such thing as debt

when you own the $ printing press.

[geckosfeet]

7. So we citizens who are employed and having payroll taxes taken out of our pay

by the government, with the understanding that the money will eventually be available for our retirements, are being scammed. The government is taking our money, misrepresenting itself, and using the money for whatever they want.

Is this a basis for a class action lawsuit? The entire working population vs the government?

[sagesnow]

8. Which lawyer will take this case up?

Are there any lawyers that specalize in SS class action cases? How do we get this going? Maybe we need to occupy Social Security. (Can you tell this really infuriates me? :mad:)

[KoKo]

9. +!!!!

[WildNovember]

21. It also means that we pay higher federal income taxes than they keep telling us we do.

And the rich pay a lower percent of the total than they keep telling us they do.

[Lance_Boyle]

30. There is no case.

There is no promise, no guarantee, that you will ever get anything out of SS. This is a well-established matter. SS is much more comparable to an insurance policy than a pension. You pay "premiums" all your working life with no guarantee of ever seeing any benefit from the program.

[bigtree]

10. that's been common knowledge

. . . they'll pay for it by shifting priorities from tax cuts for the wealthy and spending on military nonsense to the commitment they claim to have to keeping SS solvent.

[RC]

11. Where are the plans to Primary Obama?

It is obvious he is part of the problem. Payroll taxes are separate from general revenue funds for this very reason. And now they are being commingled anyway. That is only one of the real reasons for the payroll tax cuts and not what we are being lead to believe. In other words, these payroll tax cuts while sellable in the short run, they are very bad for us in the long run.
Ever notice how the talking points for the payroll tax cuts are similar to the talking points for not taxing he rich? Yeah, jobs again. We already know what not taxing the rich did for job creation. Now we are being sold the same lies for keeping the payroll tax cuts.
We are being had again.

[BOHICA12]

12. Hey, the $1,000 has been nice this year .... but way stupid.

Tossed it into the 401K cause I hate getting adjusted to one income to have it reduced by Washington, Kids growing up & out, etc. The tax reduction has to end at some point - and then the wailing & gnashing of teeth. Again - really stupid.

[jeff47]

13. So...time to keep buying into incorrect right-wing framing then?

The fact that social security bought government debt didn't reduce government debt. All it did was change who is owed the debt.

The only way this situation could be a problem is if the interest rate on debt was unsustainable. But we're issuing new debt at less than 2%. Inflation-protected bonds are paying negative interest.

The sky is not falling. Claiming that a disaster is looming just makes it easier to destroy the program.

[Exilednight]

26. There is no right-wing framing going on. It just happens that a right-winger has finally admitted

what everyone with a brain already knew was going on.

[jeff47]

27. I'm afraid you have that backwards

Since you're "the one with the brain", perhaps you could explain how there is more government debt right now due to social security?

[Exilednight]

32. Either you misunderstood the OP, or you're trying to change the subject. The OP states that

SS was raped to help pay for other government programs. As soon as you use SS fund money to purchase treasuries, you've used the money to pay for other programs.

[jeff47]

44. So...you have no idea what the trust fund is then?

The trust fund, by law, can only purchase US treasuries. This has always been the case, so it isn't some new, nefarious Republican way to destroy it. So no, it hasn't been "raped to help pay for other government programs". It was invested in the only bonds it is allowed to buy.

Did you think that the trust fund was just a pile of cash sitting in a vault somewhere?

Redeeming those bonds does nothing to our debt. It means debt must be sold to someone else. Total debt will not go up. The only danger is if we can't sell that debt at a low enough interest rate. With interest rates below 2%, that's not much of a fear for now.

[Exilednight]

45. When you buy treasuries, you're buying debt. I will also point out that the fund has been

"borrowed from" to help close budget loopholes. Borrowing from SS is how Clinton balanced the budget.

[City Lights]

14. There's never a lockbox around when you need one.

:mad:

I will never forget the way the corporate hoore media and the GOPers ridiculed Gore during the 2000 election. Fuck every last one of them.

[Tatiana]

15. I really think a couple of law professors and students should take a look at this.

Can we sue the government to put the money back in the trust fund?

I would think every taxpayer who has paid into social security would have standing.

[glinda]

20. +1!

[kenny blankenship]

16. Stolen, not "mixed".

[woo me with science]

29. Thank you. nt

[JCMach1]

22. Gore was right... once again...

we needed a lock box...

[slay]

23. I was just thinking that

Gore was right about climate change wayyyy before most as well. Did you catch Cenk's interview with Gore on The Young Turks on Current last night? It was excellent.

Link to video if ya missed it: http://current.com/shows/the-young-turks/videos/al-gore-gop-primaries-are-troubling-exercise-that-drive-candidates-to-absurd-policy-positions

[JCMach1]

25. There is an alternate Universe where Gore served 8 years, followed

by Hillary Clinton...

I would imagine it is in better shape...

[slay]

31. Yeah I'm pretty positive we never would have gone to war in Iraq

and for the most part I think Gore is a pretty decent guy. I voted for him. I'd like to see the alternate world where the Kennedys lived and the Bush family never came to power. How cool would that be?

[JCMach1]

33. In an infinite number of universes there is one

Literally that was the feeling I had after 2000... I had entered an alternate universe. I was right... it all turned-out so ugly.

[slay]

34. Do you watch Fringe?

In the alternate universe there JFK lived and the twin towers still stand. - Oh and Obama is president there too. :)

Here is the best shot I can find that shows it - in the top left corner of the paper you see "Former Pres Kennedy to Address the UN" and the other pic is of one of the characters standing in the twin towers in the alt universe. I love this type stuff. :evilgrin:

[JCMach1]

36. That show hasn't made it over here yet to the UAE

However, am a long time Dr. Who fan...

[slay]

37. Me too!

I've seen every episode of Doctor Who starting from the first ep with Jon Pertwee as The Doctor all the way up to the current ep. Well I did skip some Colin Baker eps but who didn't? :P

Woops sorry for spoiling a bit of Fringe - didn't know it hadn't aired there. It's in season 4 here. It's a good show - not always great - but I feel it's been worth my time.

Have you seen the short prequel for this year's Doctor Who Christmas special? Here's a link: Doctor Who: The Prequel to The Doctor, The Widow and The Wardrobe - BBC One -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfJkFtqYQ3Q

Also - if UAE is not current with Doctor Who - every ep can be found on sites like filesonic and megaupload. cheers.

[JCMach1]

38. Need to watch the 'Preview' ... my geeky

family has been working its way through episodes of Dexter, Boardwalk Empire and Walking Dead... We also need to finish Battlestar Galactica.

Did you read that they are discussing a Dr. Who movie (Hollywood) for next year...? Mixed emotions about that...

Ironically, I saw my first Dr. Episodes in black and write during the early 1970's. (Jon Pertwee) and the show scared the bejesus out of me (I was only 5 or 6). I didn't stop watching though.

Maybe 6-7 years later they started running Tom Baker on PBS and I started watching again. I haven't stopped since and my daughters are now hooked. We are also huge Torchwood fans.

[slay]

41. Sounds like we have similar tastes

i too watch Dexter and The Walking Dead. Battlestar ended up being one of my favorite shows ever. Caprica was quite good during its 18 episode run as well. You should check out Carnivale if you haven't - the showrunner for season one was Battlestar's showrunner Ron Moore. And season 2 was just as good.

Yeah i don't know about the movie idea either - as long as it stars either a current or past doctor i'd be ok with it. DW showrunner Stephen Moffat says that will be the case - but the guy they've hired to direct wants to go with a whole new cast. ugh. i think Moffat will win that battle.

i loved Torchwood - Children of Earth. the rest i've had mixed feelings about. my other sci-fi love was Farscape - wow what a show. and The Invisible Man was excellent as well.

[defendandprotect]

35. It's been a SLUSH FUND for elite use -- for tax cuts for rich -- etal --

[burrowowl]

39. Why am I surprised!?

[Major Hogwash]

40. I don't think it is beyond logic.

We will spend much less when the troops come home from Iraq and Afghanistan, starting in January.
I think the disconnect surrounds the idea that money borrowed from one fund can't be repaid to the fund if all funds are reduced.
But, Social Security won't be reduced, so it is unaffected by those cuts.

It is just simple math.
It all adds up.

[Leopolds Ghost]

42. I posted a Washington Post graphic ("Lying with Statistics") about this during debt-ceiling debate.

I'll have to dig it up.

[eShirl]

43. Hey, tax cuts don't fund themselves!