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In Less Than 1/2 An Hour, The City Of Philadelphia Will Be On The Wrong Side Of History...

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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 03:39 PM
Original message
In Less Than 1/2 An Hour, The City Of Philadelphia Will Be On The Wrong Side Of History...
Ironic... since this is where our country/constitution was born...

And within it's bounbaries are:

Franklin Square

Valley Forge National Historical Park

The Liberty Bell Center

National Constitution Center

Independence Hall

The Franklin Institute

And... Thomas Paine Plaza


Just to name a few...

I think I'm gonna be ill.

:puke:

:kick:
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coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. What's happenign in Philly? Is ti Occupy related? - n/t
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yes... Go Here:
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coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. Got it. Thanks. Watching LiveStream now - n/t
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
3. Um, not for anything, but the majority of the properties you list aren't city controlled.
Edited on Sun Nov-27-11 03:57 PM by msanthrope
Occupy Philly had the unfortunate luck of choosing a spot that was undergoing renovations--1,000 union jobs.

So they move, and find another spot. They were offered Thomas Paine Plaza, so I don't understand why they don't move there.

Love Park will be available after Christmas, but is not available now.
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. But Then It Wouldn't Be Civil Disobedience... Would It ???
And can you tell me where they were offered an alternate site by the city, because I'm unaware of one.

:shrug:
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Um, on the link you gave, WillyT, if you read it, (i.e. read your link before posting it!)
They were offered Thomas Paine. It's across the street, basically.

They don't want Thomas Paine. Why? I don't know.
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. LOL !!! - That's Funny Twice !!! - First... I Did Read What I Linked To, And...
Apparently... you did not... or at least you didn't get far enough.

From the link:

Mayor Nutter and the City offered Occupy Philly a "compromise" by promising to issue a permit for protesters to stay in Thomas Paine Plaza between the hours of 9am to 7pm, with no tents. But our fundamental right to assemble in peaceful protest cannot be subject to city curfews and anti-speech ordinances. Seeking justice is not a 9 to 5 activity.


Now... you know why.

:hi:

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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. If you'd read what you posted, then you'd know that they were offered Thomas Paine.
Edited on Sun Nov-27-11 04:15 PM by msanthrope
If you knew Philly, you'd know why they can't get Love Park right now.

Frankly, no tents might lessen the chances of another rape occurring. I do know that a tent city, through the winter, isn't a great idea.
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Dude... I Just Said That... I Even Highlighted It, And Put Pretty Box Around It...
The whole point is to OCCUPY a place, that IS the civil disobedience, and... occupying means being there 24/7 and requires tents, especially during the winter.

Just like GW and the gang, when they Occupied Valley Forge.

:D

:shrug:
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. In post 4, you said you didn't know of an alternate site. It's Thomas Paine, across the street.
Edited on Sun Nov-27-11 04:34 PM by msanthrope
Civil Disobedience???? It's not civil disobedience when you expect the city to issue you a permit that allows you tents, electricity, and porta-potties.

Tent city is not happening over the winter. The cops don't want a repeat of the rape that's already happened, and the fire department would like to go home at night.
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Having To Go Home Every Night, Is Not An Occupation, And Therefore, Was Not A Viable Alternative...
Assuming one has a home to go home to of course...

And... the occupation doesn't need permits, although they would willingly accept them if it meant the police would leave them alone...

:shrug:


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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Well, aren't going to have much choice. Dilworth is out. Love Park is out.
There aren't too many sites that are going to allow a tent city.

And sorry, but Occupy Philly sort of lost the argument about police presence when the cops had to investigate the sexual assault that occurred in one of the tents.
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FarCenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. GW lived in a house; the "gang" lived in log huts
At least that's my recollection from a visit to Valley Forge.

They were not engaged in civil disobedience.
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Well... It Started Out As Civil Disobedience...


:shrug:
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FarCenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. That was criminal destruction of property
Civil disobedience would have been refusing to pay the tax.
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. ROFLMAO !!!
Whoo-boy... are you for real???

:rofl:

:evilgrin:

You would have made a great Royalist.

:banghead:

:wtf:

:beer:

:smoke:

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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Don't bring facts or history into this!!! nt
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #8
19. Yes they can be subjected to those
Laws apply to all; not just those we think deserve the restrictions.

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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #4
20. Then there should be any complaining about the results
Then it wouldn't involve breaking any law, would it? If one is going to deliberately break laws, one has to suffer the result, or it's not civil disobedience.

Thoreau went to jail, didn't he?
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Exactly... That's How This Works... In New York They Arrested A City Councilman...
In Oakland they shot an Iraq War Vet in the head with a tear gas canister.

In Berkeley they clubbed the crap out of the ex U.S. Poet Laureate.

In Davis they pepper-sprayed students as if they were common cockroaches.

And those are just a few of the notables... there are Many many more who have suffered at the hands of the power structure, and many more will... and we will continue to complain and cause disruption and make noise... until the system changes into one that is much more just.

That's the nature of the beast, as it were.

:shrug:
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. No, we were talking about evicting the people from the park
I was talking about the natural consequences of the protestor breaking the law, which you well know. Your response there is in bad faith.
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PETRUS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
5. So true. We should all be taking note -
Edited on Sun Nov-27-11 04:02 PM by PETRUS
-the Declaration of Independence contains this: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."

-and the Constitution opens with this: "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

-and Madison predicted the problem of "factions," describing them thusly: "a number of citizens, whether amounting to a minority or majority of the whole, who are united and actuated by some common impulse of passion, or of interest, adverse to the rights of other citizens, or to the permanent and aggregate interests of the community ... the most common and durable source of factions has been the various and unequal distribution of property."

-and Adams wrote this: "Government is instituted for the common good; for the protection, safety, prosperity, and happiness of the people; and not for profit, honor, or private interest of any one man, family, or class of men; therefore, the people alone have an incontestable, unalienable, and indefeasible right to institute government; and to reform, alter, or totally change the same, when their protection, safety, prosperity, and happiness require it."

-and the 1st Amendment reads: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

The Occupy movement is correct in its interpretation of the economic/political reality and has the moral high ground.
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Eh--they knew from the moment they got their permit the renovation was going to happen.
They should have picked a better spot from the start.

Maybe this time they won't let the Ron Paul/Larouche faction in front.
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Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
13. K&R
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
21. K&R
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
23. Because they're losing to the Patriots?
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. Really... They Are ???
:evilgrin:

:rofl:

:hi:
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Jim Lane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. It's over, and they have lost to the Patriots.
Also, for those of you who sometimes make prudent investments in sporting events, the Patriots not only won, but covered the spread. New England 38, Philadelphia 20.
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. LOL !!! - "prudent investments in sporting events" - Not Me, Not For A Looong Time...
:rofl:

:D

:hi:

:hide:

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sfpcjock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
30. Occupy Philly doing Peoples' Mic Teaching now
Edited on Sun Nov-27-11 07:49 PM by sfpcjock
Occupy Philadelphia - Livestream (Now)
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
31. Valley Forge is well outside Philly
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
32. This is nothing new for the city that bombed itself.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. In the Official Hall of "It seemed like a good idea at the time"

There hangs a beautiful portrait of Mayor Wilson Goode.
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