I Don't Get It - Black Friday Sets A Record.....

[global1]

We're supposed to be in hard economic times. High unemployment. Foreclosures. 99%ers being cheated by the banksters & Wall St gang. Middle class disappearing . Poverty. Starving kids. Rampant homelessness. And Black Friday set a record? Who did All this buying the 1%ers? Are we really in hard economic times or is the MSM telling us this just to make Obama a one term President.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

1. I don't know the full yer's economic records but

if, hypothetically, consumer spending is down for the balance of the year then that would indicate people were saving until the deepest discounts came along.

I would assume this hypothesis because if consumer spending were higher we wouldn't be hovering near a recession all year and unemployment would be much lower.

[Stargleamer]

2. Remember that on Black Friday, prices are deeply discounted

the one day of the year, when items are more affordable to those who wouldn't otherwise have the money for them in this Depression.

[TheWraith]

21. Also, a strong holiday shopping season can be a sign of an economy growing stronger.

Increased consumer confidence > increased spending > more demand for goods and services > more hiring to fulfill demand > more confidence.

[DLnyc]

40. Yes, one interpretation might be massive discounts.

Stores know they aren't going to get full price, because for several years they've been getting stuck with overpriced junk that doesn't move so they have to dump it in a January 'white sale'. So now a lot of them are trying to beat the rush by selling the stuff deeply discounted beforehand. This also means cash on hand early instead of late, which is better for the bottom line. And if they really do sell a lot of stuff, they can afford to buy some more and let it move (relatively slowly) through the 'holiday season'. Used to was, stuff sold better and better right up to Christmas Eve. Nowadays, anyone who still feels they need to load up on commercialized crap is smart enough to do their shopping when the prices are low, either the day after Thanksgiving or a week or two after Christmas.

That's how I read it, anyway.

[banned from Kos]

3. Also, US exports set an all time record, corporate profits at an all-time high

taxes are at low as % of GDP, interest rates are at lows, inflation is modest to dead, and US oil production is set to be #1 in the world in five years.

But Obama is a socialist!

[Nuclear Unicorn]

8. What you make and what you spend are two different things.

Corporate profits can be higher if they're cost-cutting. As labor is --generally -- one of the most expensive aspects of any business it would make sense for unemployment to remain high and profits to go up if corporations cut back on personnel. My boss laid-off 3 people and discontinued janitorial services when the recession finally hit us.

[lonestarnot]

4. Crazy fuckers and their rush on junk. Nothing more.

[Better Believe It]

14. Bull shit! It's working class people looking to buy things they want/need and can afford.

Save your insulting anti-working class horse shit for somewhere else.

I'm buying some holiday presents.

If you don't like it's just too fricken bad.

[Hugabear]

16. "anti-working class" - oh the irony!

It's the desire for cheaper and cheaper goods that has really helped kill the working class in this country, as corporations source their jobs overseas in search of cheap labor.

[NYC_SKP]

23. Amen, Hugabear. Killing the fucking planet at the same time.

It's so sad that people see cheap gifts at the holidays as some sort of bare necessity.

Oh, wait, someone's going to mention "clothes" as gifts as necessities.

Well, OK, exceptions to every rule, but I haven't seen any Black Friday ads for clothes or food or other actual necessities.

[Tallulah]

25. Imagine

a 50 - 70% off sale on food.

I dream big.

[Response]

26. Cheap plastic Chinese krap.

Were any people pepper sprayed over clothes or the $200 42" TVs that were selling?

[dkf]

29. Old navy had some great sales.

And kids grow so fast this is a necessity.

My little nephew only has one pair of jeans so I bought him a few more. He has other pants just not jeans.

[Tallulah]

39. Old Navy

has a great sale online if you don't want to go to the store.

Very reasonable prices, lots of stuff to choose from. I shopped there last night.

[EFerrari]

5. It's my impression that the retailers always run a story that spins

their Friday take as very good in hopes of getting people out on Saturday and Sunday.

[suffragette]

45. Yes, isn't that what happened last year

This same story about strong sales on prominent pages of the papers followed a couple weeks later by articles with the real facts (not strong sales) placed in the back pages.

[RoccoR5955]

6. Those are preliminary numbers...

Just wait until they come up with their "revised" numbers AFTER the new year.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

7. They're "saving" money by spending money until they're broke.

I always find it amusing when somebody says, "Look how much I saved when I bought this!". So, show me the money you "saved".

[CaliforniaHiker]

19. Psychology of "saving"

If I remember correctly, in one of my history classes in college we discussed how widespread credit and the concept of "saving" in a sale arose around the same time, early 20th century. Think about the amount of re-education that had to go into persuading people that spending money equaled saving money.

[TheWraith]

22. If you need something that normally costs $800, and you buy it for $500...

...then yes, you saved money. Although try telling that to the people who simply have a grudge about the entire idea of holiday shopping.

[Response]

27. I'm sure that you, Tierra_y_Libertad and I know that

it is not about that imaginary $300 savings anecdote, but rather that corporations are doing everything in their power to entice people spend money that they don't have.

BTW: why are you making this about a grudge about the entire idea of holiday shopping?


That sounds an awful lot like the war on Christmas tapdance that we have heard about for years.

[TheWraith]

33. Because a lot of people here have a grudge about the entire idea of holiday shopping.

And they express that by going on about how stupid all the shoppers are, asserting that they're sheep or zombies, people hoodwinked into buying crap, or a whole cloud of other broad-brushings.

And you know what? For what there may be a small shred of truth about some of it, for the most part it just comes down to pretentious, holier-than-thou moralizing crap. An "I'm so wonderful because I didn't go shopping" attitude, elevating yourself by judging other people, with no acceptance of the fact that some people do in fact need to buy things, take advantage of sales, get toys for their children, or maybe just enjoy picking out some things for their friends and family.

[Response]

36. Tierra_y_Libertad said nothing about holiday shopping in that post.

The fact remains that the corporations play you, me and the next person for suckers for their bottom line. They don't create an even bigger Black Friday monster out of some sense of altruism. If they did have that in mind then shoppers would be well disciplined because there would be a big security presence and well understood rules of conduct. But instead what we have is society at its worst. I don't care how much $ you drop during the holidays. I just know that corporate Joe plays us all.

[Jackpine Radical]

9. People are more desperate & more driven to go for the big discounts.

They haven't been shopping much during the rest of the season. The economic times moved the shopping patterns around without increasing the season totals.

[Huey P. Long]

10. Everything is fine. Go back to sleep.

[Warpy]

11. Black Friday always sets a record

which is easy to do when you keep denying the inflation we all see every day.

After all, it set a record in 2008, too. Remember?

[ThomWV]

15. I believe they were reporting sales up 6%

It was part of the conversation on Washington Journal this morning, I think they were quoting a 6% increase in sales friday - compared to what I'm not sure, probably store on store, prior year sales.

[Tallulah]

12. believe it or not

people are still buying on credit. Credit they know they can't pay back.

I can't live that way. If I don't have the money, I don't spend period. I did buy firewood Friday from a Mom and Pop place near me. When I went to the ATM, it was empty. After going two other places, I finally got money by going inside the bank. I suspect most if not all withdrawals were probably cash advances. I have never experienced that before.

I don't understand this whole buying frenzy either. Like everyone suddenly became flush with cash after struggling all year ? No, they are shopping with credit.

It's a shame too because it's wants not needs.

Facebook is full of young people bragging about shopping all night into the morning hours. People I know for a fact have no extra money. Charge it.

That January bill is going to hurt.

[Yo_Mama]

24. Deposits rose hugely this year at banks - people are going cash

No credit. The ATMs were empty because people went to the ATMs, withdrew cash from their checking/saving accounts, then went out and spent it on good deals.

Other deposits rose about 300 billion between late May and mid November. That's a lot of money - people have gone back to cash.

[Response]

28. I'm not sure that I really believe the corollary.

Do you have proof that sales were all cash?

[Tallulah]

35. If you have cash in your checking account

you probably have a debit card or checks. There is no need to carry cash. If you have a savings account, you probaly have a checking account unless you have a Christmas account only but those paid out earlier in the month.

It's not smart to carry cash on big shopping days. You could lose it, get robbed. Flashing cash is an invitation to get mugged.

It's easier and safer to carry a card or checkbook.

I personally can't remember the last time I carried cash. I go get what I need when I can't pay with a debit card. I stopped carrying a purse when gas station purse snatchings went up.

I can't afford to lose any money.

That's why I think the withdrawals Thursday night and Friday morning were cash advances.

[ThomWV]

13. I did, for one. I bought myself a new set of boots thursday, on line.

I had been putting off the purchase of a new set of work boots (give or take $200) because I didn't know if I'd be alive to wear them. I have been putting off the purchase since last spring, when I actually began to need them pretty badly and last thursday it occurred to me that it would be OK to buy them now because I'd probably live long enough to make good use of them. So I did. I also bought a couple of pairs of $20/pair wool socks for the winter.

Its call pent up demand, and you can be dead broke but still have it. Think of it like the pangs of desire an alcoholic or ex-smoker feels after quitting for a few months, because that's another reason. People who have got into the habit of frivolous spending don't just drop it overnight.

Go read Bernays. You aren't in control of yourself, others are.

[woodsprite]

17. I save all year to shop heavily on black Friday and Thanksgiving weekend

The rest of the year we buy necessities and very little of anything else.
I'm sure we're not the only family with kids who does this.

[doc03]

18. Take a look at the parking lot in any restaurant especially

the upscale ones and tell me people we are in hard economic times. Yes the unemployment is high and many people are just getting by but there is still a huge percentage that are getting by just fine.

[Response]

30. That just warms my heart that they are all fine.

Somebody probably said the same kind of thing during the great depression.

[liberal N proud]

20. when you add 25% more shopping time you had better show increases.

That is why stores opened on Thanksgiving.

[Rex]

31. The idea of Black Friday is to have insanely low prices on sales

so that economically disadvantaged people could spend a day buying consumer goods and putting things on layaway for Christmas. You somewhat missed the point of 'why'. Also, a lot of these 'crisis' situations are manufactured by the M$M (so you do have that part right) to create the outcome their paymasters want. It is social engineering of consumers that is sanctioned by the govt...not like these nasty hippies in their OWS communes!

The data points to a more desperate populace, fist fighting over a doll at Toys'R'Us...that is not the 1%. Those are somewhat desperate people willing to get physical over a trinket. Hence the unprecedented amount of violence during these shopping mashups. 2011 was the worst so far. Now think about desperate people, you can mold them better as long as you keep their longterm outcome uncertain.

It has nothing to do with Obama. The part of the M$M is for their masters on Wall Street.

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. I get it...wait for the numbers to be modified downwards

Next week...been happening for a few years now.

[nobodyspecial]

34. Even if you're broke

you are going to buy a few presents for the kids and SO. Why not buy them at the best prices to maximize the money you spend? The true test will be what happens between now and Christmas.

It might be that people spent all the money that they will this weekend.

[Tallulah]

37. I thought the same thing

What if that's it ? What if people saved and waited for deep cut sales and now they're done shopping ?

It might explain the numbers the MSM is claiming.

[dajoki]

44. True n/t

[knitter4democracy]

46. That's what I did. Almost all Christmas shopping is done now.

I just have three presents to make, a gift card to get, my boyfriend's present to get, and a present for my stepmom to get at a home party this week. Oh, and cheap stocking stuffers (usually school supplies and their favorite candy). One more paycheck, and those are all set.

[in_cog_ni_to]

38. They're LYING for their CORPORATE OWNERS.

P-R-O-P-A-G-A-N-D-A.

[bigwillq]

41. Hard economic times + cheap sales=Big crowds.

That's my guess.

[sendero]

42. Denial.

.... just like governments and banksters, individuals will live and act in denial until there is no way reality can be denied any further.

Also, I believe that a lot of purchasing was "front loaded" by people who think, rightly or wrongly, that the best deals to be had are had now.

I don't believe that and I don't believe the season overall will be a good one for retailers. In fact, the desparation, opening at midnight, the discounts, the hype, is palpable.

[Kat45]

43. Even with high unemployment,, a huge majority do have jobs.

And there are still a number of people with well-paid full time jobs, with many being jobs they've had for a long time. I haven't had a steady job for close to 3 years, and it's harder for me psychologically (as well as financially) because most of my friends have had their jobs for a long time, are making good money, and buy what they want to buy.