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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 03:41 PM
Original message
On vaccinations... (Graphic)
Well it seems that like always we get this every so often. So let me illustrate some of the effects of NOT vaccinating people. First let me introduce you to Small Pox, which exists in TWO labs as far as we know. Otherwise it is gone from the wild and if it ever broke out... BILLIONS would die. You think I am exaggerating? Well when the Spanish arrived at Tenochtitlan historians estimate native population at 20 million Within two generations it was down to 150 thousand. Nol the natives had zero herd immunity since they had never been exposed to it.

So with no further... here you go





Then there is Polio, which is ALMOST gone... yes it still exist in areas of the world where people are now resisting this vaccination as a western evil.

Again NOT photoshop





Yeah I could have used photos from the 1950s, but more recent ones make the point far better.

Measles...



Things like Whopping Cough can't really show in photos... then again



This is one of our recent victims, too young to vaccinate but exposed since herd immunity is down.

I could go on.

When I hear the argument but freedom... well I am reminded of the arguments made by the CATHOLIC church during the Small Pox vaccination campaign in New Spain, modern day Mexico, during that first campaign between 1808 and 1813. It was, and still is, a conflict between two world views. A scientific world view and a non scientific one. This is exactly what this is. And if you do not get WHY or HOW vaccines work... I suggest an education. Oh and the link to Autism is simply not there. It happens to be that the first signs of it do show up at the same time as one of the scheduled medications. Kids would become Autistic either way... from what the SCIENCE has been able to show us.

Yes, medicine has at times not behaved right. and research is doctored every so often. Yes it happens. It is a field of human endevaour and to believe that it would be pure as an angel would be nuts, see the best known Thaledomyne babies. But at the same time things like yes, Small Pox, no longer haunt our nightmares, and believe me, small pox is not a nice disease, nor a nice way to go.
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Ohio Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
1. I don't think anyone opposing vaccines is going to listen
It's just another CT, complete with cherry picked quotes, crap science, mis-leading bits of information and people willing to believe anything so they can blame who they want to believe is at fault.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. True, but we can always prevent people from falling for the falsehoods spread by true believers. nt
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Oh I know but it is nice
to throw those facts out there for anybody on the edge
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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. I listen. I believe in vaccines. It's pharma companies I don't believe in. nt
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sense Donating Member (948 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #13
45. Exactly
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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
2. Way to go! I've been pushing vaccinations since day 1. There is
no need for people to be in the situations shown in the photos when a pick in the arm prevents it. NO NEED TO SEE THIS ANYMORE.
Even herd immunity is not something to take a chance on.
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Demoiselle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
5. Thank you very much for this.
I wish I could rec. it a million times.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
6. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
trackfan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
7. I had whooping cough a few years ago.
I had been vaccinated as a child, but apparently it does not provide lifetime immunity, and can wear off after 25-30 years. Even though I may now, having had the actual disease, have acquired lifetime immunity, I still plan to get vaccinated at some future time, as I NEVER want to take the chance of getting this thing again. After an initial cold-like sickness, the "whooping" part starts. You otherwise feel normal, but have periodic attacks where your throat almost closes up. The attacks become less frequent over time, but continue for a period of several months. They were so bad, I would only half-jokingly let people know I had a pocket knife on me in case they had to do an emergency tracheotomy.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. I got a booster last year
I live in the same county that baby was treated.
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Hassin Bin Sober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #7
43. Yikes.
I was on vacation a few weeks ago with a large group of friends. One of them mentioned he just got over WC.

I thought, hmmm??? Not vaccinated? Anti-vaxer? Now I owe him an apology (in my head causes I didn't really say anything).

Now I gotta remember to mention it to my doc.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. After 35 you should get a booster
according to my doctor, and then every ten years, or so... almost like tetanus.

It used not to be an issue...
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The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
9. Well, you could put those pics on the side of a bus and drive around, ala anti-abortion folks
"When I hear the argument but freedom..."

This is the same sort of thing we hear often from those against abortion - allowing it stops a beating heart, it can be prevented (don't have sex...), and giving people an out harms others (babies).

As I have said elsewhere, I am all for vaxxing - but prefer choice in how old the child is when they get one (which reminds me of circumcision here at times - wait for person to be old enough to make a choice).

When you get to a point where the government can dictate medical choices over your body - well it opens up a lot for both sides.

Promote it, educate people, let them know the value of it - but forcing people ad hoc removes something I thought we held sacred, choice.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. This discussion has been ongong for three centuries
and yes, GOVERNMENTS abroad have done that... to explain to their people WHY that drop or vaccine is good. In fact the US did, during the national polio vaccines which were the greatest vaccination effort since the early small pox vaccinations in the 18th and 19th centuries.

Your arguments I hate to say it, could be coming from Cardinal Apodaca in Guadalajara oh circal 1811.

So tell me, you want small pox back?
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
10. k&r
Thank you, thank you, thank you. It's absolute insanity that people are putting others at risk with not vaccinating. With the patchy health care "system" we have here in the US, a person might be sentencing several families to death, heartbreak and impossible bills for the decision to not get childhood boosters for a child.
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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
12. I have nothing against vaccinations. I had measles, German measles, mumps, whooping cough...
and none of those were fun, believe me.

Those pictures are impressive, yes. They definitely impress me. However, I understand that nowadays babies are getting upwards of 35 vaccinations???? Vaccinations are nothing to play around with. I've personally known of people having reactions to them. 35 plus vaccines to a baby? That's too frikkin' much. This has gone overboard, out of line, and it's beyond ridiculous.

Also, pharmaceutical companies always have the BOTTOM LINE in mind when manufacturing. They have the BOTTOM LINE ($$$$) in mind when manufacturing vaccines. That means that they don't care a rat's ass if the stuff they put in them to save money, end up hurting the receivers of vaccines.

There needs to be more oversight of pharma companies, there needs to be a serious look into why babies are receiving so many damned vaccines in such a short period of time, when their bodies are in their most fragile state of developing.

Surely a group of people with brains can sit down and discuss all this, keeping babies and adults' health in mind, rather than $$$$$$.

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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. They are in their "most fragile state of developing" while an embryo and fetus. Hence
a reason to not have pregnant women exposed to these viruses.
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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Yes, and adults should be vaccinated (with safe vaccines). nt
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 04:38 PM
Original message
Keeping kids vx'd also decrease adult exposure to viruses. Not just for
kids protection, but for adults.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
19. And the vaccination schedule is
linked to the development of the immunological system
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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
23. Read Dr. Sears' recommendation of a modified vaccine schedule for children:
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Interesting. 1 reason vx's are grouped is many don't want to bring kids in every month
for a vaccine due to time, costs, etc. Having been both a parent and a nurse for a pediatrician, I understand that.

But for those who want to get a couple vx's every month, rather than several every other, I'd say go for it. Just get the vxs, unless you are one of those rare ones who have allergy or health issues.
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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #26
32. That's not the reason for the modified scheduled so much as it is the insecurity of the parents who
are aware that there is not much regulation of anything going on out there. They are no longer trusting govt agencies (since Republican ideology became the trend in this country).
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Actually vaccines are the least profitable side of the
business.


And they are heavily regulated, We have zero link between thiromisal and autism. It just happens to appear at the same time as one of the schedules.

And money... let's be honest, what do you think would be more profitable? A three dollar vaccine (that is the polio one) or ICU and a lifetime of disability?

I get it that SOME children should not get vaccinated due to allergies or very rare GENETIC conditions. We are talking on one out of 100,000 for egg allergies and quite much higher as in the million for the genetic issues.

Oh and I am serious... vaccines have such a high grade of profit that the annual flu vaccine is done by two labs with subsidies.
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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Well, that's even worse, given that pharma are profit-making, and seek to spend as little
as possible, even with their profit-making drugs. I shudder to think what might be in the products they make little from.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Show me when exactly has a vaccine caused
disease. I will wait.

They are heavily regulated.

Unless you believe that no regulation can be trusted that is.
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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. There have been issues with various, although the medical community is usually quick to jump
to the defense of vaccines.

Toddler risks with mandated vaccines (from the Executive Director of the American Assoc of Physicians and Surgeons):

http://sirricenter.com/pdfarticles/31_Putting_Toddlers_...

Swine flu vaccine:

http://www.prisonplanet.com/doctor-says-flu-vaccine-wil...

Influenza vaccine risks:

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/qa/flushot.htm#high-risk

Gardasil and Cervarix risks:

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/vaccines/hpv/gardasil....

Hepatitis vaccine and children:

http://www.aapsonline.org/testimony/hepbcom.htm

There's lots more. However, here's an interesting Frontline interview with Dr. Robert Sears (a pediatrician). He is a promoter of vaccines and a physician, but suggests an 'alternative vaccination schedule' in which children are given vaccines more spaced out, with some postponed altogether because babies generally do not require immunization for certain diseases.

Read more: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/vaccines/interv...





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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. That is why revisions to schedules are always done
Edited on Sat Nov-26-11 05:30 PM by nadinbrzezinski
and why there IS REGULATION.

Oh and vaccines are NOT risk free, but they are like ALL medicines,

I take metmorfin for Diabetes, Want me to go ahead and post all the side effects?

No medicine, even the "natural teas" that we are told are natural, hence no side effects, come without side effects, well save one... PLACEBO.

Licorice, for example, used for lactation in the east, can land a baby in ICU with organ failure. Yes, it is passed through mom's milk. Yes, seen that.. not pretty,

Oh and I should make the distinction... disease is NOT the same as side effect... having lower Vit D due to taking metmorfin can cause some problems aka side effect, but it does not cause diabetes.

The alergic reaction from a flu shot due to eggs, is not the flu
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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. Since 1980 (the Reagan admin onwards), there have been very few, if any regulations in our govt
Edited on Sat Nov-26-11 05:48 PM by Sarah Ibarruri
As a result, the FDA and the CDC too have conflicts of interest.

FDA conflicts of interest:

http://www.americanchiropractic.net/Medical_research_fl...

http://www.medpagetoday.com/PublicHealthPolicy/Clinical...

Even the Journal of the American Medical Association (which generally defends the CDC and the FDA) admits that there 'could be' a conflict of interest within the CDC, which amazed the heck out of me.

CDC conflicts of interest:

http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/303/5/412.extract

http://www.healthjournalism.org/blog/2009/12/oig-cdc-mi... /

The agencies that should be protecting us, are riddled with people sitting on their boards and working for them, who have conflicts of interest. Not good.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #30
36. These vaccines are not just developed or used in the US
I know you do not trust any agency, but I will ask the same question I asked Straight Story... want things like Small Pox back? Because if we did not have these vaccination campaigns, ultimately that is what will happen. Well probably not small pox, as long as they are kept behind closed doors at Ft Dietrich and wherever the ruskies keep theirs.

As is the US does NOT conform to work standards for vaccination campaigns and people die from very preventable disease that should not.

Nor do we even apply all series of existing vaccines. You see i got a vaccine against TB... it is, well was, endemic in Mexico. It is rising in the US, but we do not believe, our CDC does not believe the risks of the vaccine match it's benefits... or as I joked with an American Public Health Officer, it is not endemic YET. And the one coming up is resistant to all kinds of treatment... that is not really truly treatable. Ten to fifteen more years of that crap and that vaccine will probably be added to the US Schedule. And all will be told to get it...

Yes things are not where they could be, I am all for national health care, and all that... but some of this is just silly... and in reality our hands off is leading to epidemics of things like whooping cough... since parents refuse to vax their kids due to lack of regulation, can't afford it (the one I get and should be national health policy to make them free of charge), or my favorite, this is not regulated and it is a plot... it would be far more profitable for the medical system to TREAT the disease, A week in ICU is over 50K.. the most expensive vaccine is 250.... so profit and vaccines, it is not in the vaccines.

The health system is collapsing, a different discussion, but as it does... you will see an increase of horrible diseases. Well to use the usual words about republicans, maybe then people will get it... why a jab is less painful than the actual disease.

by the way the Annual Flu shot, is truly a combined INTERNATIONAL effort... and heavily subsidized.

They do save lives.
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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. You're right, but it's vital that the CDC and FDA be regulatory agencies for us
And there are plenty of issues going on with vaccines abroad as well. I posted only one from abroad (France). There are others.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. Then the matter is increasing the regulatory environment
that WILL happen. The worm is turning.
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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #39
47. Oh yes! Absolutely! nt
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webDude Donating Member (830 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #18
61. live HIV in the Swine/Bird Flu Virus in Europe about 2 years...
...ago. I noticed you did not have long to wait. And this was done by "SCIENCE" as the original post so arrogantly states while brushing off the mistakes and abuse by government of these vaccines for SCIENCE studies. I am not totally against vaccines, I AM saying to do your homework. The flu vaccines are vaccinating against a flu that is already mutated to some other strain, so it won't work on the new strain, and we pay for this, for big pharma?
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spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #16
58. it's "thimeserol"-- a mercury-derivative
you might be interested in this:
http://www.nationalautismassociation.org/thimerosal.php


Also-- big pharma prefers something that can be marketed to huge numbers of people, such as vaccines.
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perdita9 Donating Member (408 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #12
60. Just because you survived whooping cough ...
...doesn't mean every kid will. All vaccinations have undergone strict safety testing. Is the risk 0%? No, but people die from plastic surgery every year and no ones calling to ban that. Any medical procedure involves risk. With vaccines, the risk is really low.
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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
20. That's what the anti-vaxxers fail to fully grasp.
The reason why we have vaccinations in the first place is because the diseases that we get vaccinated against REALLY SUCK! And kill people. And fuck people up for life!

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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. And in more than a few cases
that is if you survive... they are quite lethal
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Capitalocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #20
27. People live in a bubble now in a way
thanks to the advancements that have been made in vaccination and public health and fighting these diseases, people just don't understand what it's like to live in a society where these things represent a very real threat to the individual.

Maybe photos like this will help people understand... but they need to know the history, the stories behind it as well, the fear people lived in of contracting smallpox, the outbreaks, the epidemics that make what they call the autism epidemic look like a walk in the park.

But there are people who will always believe things that are contrary to their own and the public's interests. If we ever find a cure for cancer, there will still be people who die of it because some con artist sells them a book saying the cure is worse than the disease and you can cure cancer with happy thoughts and fairy dust.
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spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #20
55. youre making a large generalization
the point of view of the more scientific minded ones is that good hygiene and proper nutrition will prevent all disease
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frogmarch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
21. Big K&R !
Thanks for your post.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
28. Vivid and potent..
K&R
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LadyHawkAZ Donating Member (800 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
29. K&R
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
31. The problem with your photos is that they should, by all rights, show
DEAD people, since death is what is being risked here.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
33. Some of these Anti-Vax idiots even deny that vaccination did anything to stop those diseases.
Edited on Sat Nov-26-11 05:53 PM by Odin2005
They claim it was all due to improved sanitation! :crazy:

And now all the people that suffered from those diseases are now dead or are very old. All these anti-vax nuts are too young to remember when people died from diseases that are now prevented by vaccination.

Remember that FDR was left a cripple by Polio.
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JitterbugPerfume Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
34. parents are afraid----
but unfortunately to many are not afraid of the right things. SmallPox was eradicated in my lifetime . Polio , measles, whooping cough no longer present a threat.

Young parents are to often unaware of how horrible disease is, and what a gift vaccination has been to humankind .Unfortunately it could all return if we aren't vigilant.
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sense Donating Member (948 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
35. Some opposing research:
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. Mercola isn't a valid source. "Antibodies are not the final way in which your body is protected"
Huh. Imagine that. All those antibodies we are making don't do much. Or do they mean that WBC's that are stimulated by antibodies are the "final way", so hey, let's not have antibodies? crazy:
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sense Donating Member (948 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #37
41. He's not the only resource,
or I would not have posted it... you just saw one name and stopped reading..... he and the well respected pediatrician he's interviewing and many others out there are sounding the alarm. How many more children need to have their lives ruined before we look at the huge profit centers?
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #41
48. You assume too much. Obviously read more since I posted a quote, which you didn't
address.

"Antibodies are not the final way in which your body is protected" so.....vaccines are useless? What, in your educated opinion, are antibodies for, and what is meant that they "are not the final way in which your body is protected"?

I also don't think you have read other posts in this thread talking about how little is made vs "huge profits" on antibodies.

How many children have had their lives "ruined" by vaccines? In what ways? Fill me in, please.

And a word to the wise, don't assume you know how much I read of an article.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. Like climate change demiers
he is going against mainstream research that has been known for over one hundred years.

No, the people doing the Small Pox vaccination campaign in the American Colonies in the 1780s, or the ones doing it in New Spain in the 1810s, did not understand how that vaccine worked. They got the causation though.

But we have known for at least a hundred years how that works...
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
42. I've always said that the anti-vacc'ers are welcome to debate my aunt with Post-Polio
don't be surprised if she whacks you upside the head with her cane, though.
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
46. Thanks Nadin. Interesting and informative. The polio photos made
me think of FDR. We are making some progress on these things - this is no time to turn back.
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csziggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
49. As an infant I had Whooping Cough which permanently affected my breathing
As a child I had rubella, chicken pox and mumps. The chicken pox virus has left me with a susceptibility to shingles in my old age, something I dread and plan to be vaccinated against as soon as the doctors will allow.

I went to elementary school with a girl that had polio. With intensive therapy she was able to walk but it seriously affected her strength and she was never able to play outside with the other kids. A boy in our neighborhood had serious birth defects caused by his mother catching measles while she was pregnant with him. He died from those defects before his tenth birthday.

I think about the percentage of children affected by lack of vaccinations in that small neighborhood of maybe a dozen children and I wonder how can people willingly expose their children to those diseases when there are vaccinations which are as safe as modern technology can make that can prevent them.
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RegieRocker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-26-11 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
50. This is a "throw text at the wall and hopes it sticks with the
pro vac nuts". Look many out there are not against vaccinations. They are concerned what is in them and having them removed and replaced with something else that is completely safe.

Much progress has been made to date in removing or reducing thimerosal in vaccines. From the FDA
http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailab...

So go ahead and do your throw by's. It only makes those who don't question the ingredients in vaccines just as bad as those who think none should be taken at all no matter what.
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 01:07 AM
Response to Original message
51. Well I'll be damned...an OP I can proudly Rec. And graphic as it is, these images are NEEDED to
counter some of the insanity that is the anti-vaccination movement. Much needed OP: K & R.
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AllyCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 01:38 AM
Response to Original message
52. I do not oppose vaccines. I do oppose the current schedule.
I believe the current schedule puts too many vaccines on little bodies simultaneously for the sole purpose of making it more convenient for parents and less expensive for insurance companies. If they were spread out more, it would not worry me so much. My kids are getting their vaccinations but on a different schedule that requires more doctor trips.

Small pox vaccine is not readily available (certainly not on the current schedule).

I do still question the wisdom of vaccinating one day old babies against a blood-borne, sexually-transmitted disease (Hep B). There is 250 mcg of aluminum in that vaccine. Aluminum is toxic to adults when given parenterally. There is no data (science is incomplete) on what level of aluminum is safe for children. Oddly, aluminum toxicity causes symptoms that mimic autism in adults.

The trouble is that aluminum is needed in the vaccines to make them work. It is an adjuvant not a preservative like thimersol was/is. It seems some research needs to be done on what level is safe for kids and how much really needs to be in those vaccines to make them work correctly.

These diseases are horrible and vaccines are an important part of the arsenal against them. But given the current views people have of pharmaceutical companies, many parents question their safety. Parents and all patients for that matter SHOULD question all medications, including vaccines, and make informed decisions about how and when to use them. Instead of treating them like nutjobs when they rightly show mistrust, lets take our time to explain it and listen to their concerns.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #52
54. Agree. See my post that follows. Most infants do not need Hep B vaccine at birth.
Especially since most young women have already been vaccinated against Hep B as part of their routine school shots.

The decisions to vaccinate a newborn should be one that the doctor and mother discuss.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
53. On the other hand, we should limit vaccines in the first 6-8 weeks of life as much as possible.
Babies that age have poorly developed immune systems and do not respond the way older kids do to vaccines. In addition, their brains are still developing so there is more chance that a (mild) allergic reaction to a vaccine could interfere with the development of key parts of the brain.

The only vaccine routinely given at birth and then four weeks is Hepatitis B. Here is my suggestion for mothers who know that they are Hep B negative (i.e. they had full prenatal care) and who know that they have no risk for third trimester Hep B disease (i.e they are not IV drug users and are not having unprotected sex with a partner who might have the disease). Tell your pediatrician you want to wait to start Hep B at 2 months, the same time all the other routine shots start. You might even want to delay the Hep B until your child is going to start school or go to daycare (where it will be required) since Hep B is hard to catch as a child---i.e. it is transmitted like HIV through blood and body fluids.Beter yet, get the Hep B vaccine before you attempt pregnancy. That way you know that you can not get the disease and pass it on. I am a family physician, and I was already vaccinated against Hep B so I knew there would be no bad effects from waiting on the vaccine.

The only statistical association between autism and a vaccine is a slight one between Hep B and male infants. Probably not enough to keep infants at risk from getting the vaccine. But if you know that you have immunity, why take the chance with your newborn infant?

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spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #53
56. yes, this is true
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
57. Thank you. My sister was nearly blinded by the measles.
Anti vaccine people are insane.
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spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
59. I'm not anti-vaccine but I'm not gung-ho about them either
Note, I am a professional immunologist.

Overall, there's too much uncertainty about how well vaccines work, there's too many examples of bad vaccines, and I don't trust big pharma or government regulators.

In principle, vaccines are great, but the science on them isn't nearly as good as you might think. Part of the problem is that we can't test them properly for efficacy in humans, due to ethical concerns. Plus, vaccines certainly can cause very severe side-effects-- e.g. Guillain-Barre syndrome. The question is what is more likely? Those severe infections shown in the OP, or vaccine side-effects?
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drm604 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-27-11 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
62. Thank you. This can never be said enough.
I remember my parents taking us to a local school to stand in line for the sugar cubes containing polio vaccine. They understood because they had seen it. This vaccine caused joy nationwide and saved countless people from a lifetime of infirmity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_lung
Rows of irons lungs filled hospital wards at the height of the polio outbreaks of the 1940s and 1950s. Polio vaccination programs have virtually eradicated new cases of poliomyelitis in the United States.

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