Woman not happy about deputy shooting her dog

[The Straight Story]

Woman not happy about deputy shooting her dog

INVERNESS --

An Inverness woman is upset after her Jack Russell terrier was shot and killed by a Citrus County Sheriff's deputy who said he felt threatened.

Nancy Blackwell is trying to put the past behind her, but fun and games with her Jack Russell, Rascal, are not the same without the third member of their family.

...

CCSO spokesperson Gail Tierney said Princess began barking at Hesse, got out of Blackwell's house and ran at the deputy while showing her teeth and growling.

Tierney said the deputy moved back, shot and killed the dog. Hesse said he felt threatened by Princess.

http://www.baynews9.com/article/news/2011/november/348575/Woman-not-happy-about-deputy-shooting-her-dog?hpt=ju_bn4

[PDJane]

1. He felt threatened by a Jack Russell?

Really? Man's an idiot....or a coward.

[xchrom]

2. +1

[proud2BlibKansan]

3. My sister has two of them

Thelma and Louise.

They can be pretty obnoxious.

[PDJane]

10. Obnoxious, yes..........

I personally call them Jack Russell Terrorists. But they're not lethal or dangerous.

[proud2BlibKansan]

14. No. But they think they are.

LOL

[rainbow4321]

52. Yep!!

Mine has little dog complex...She's a 13 pound JRT/dachshund mix who tries to "take on" anyone or anything remotely in "her way" when I take her for a walk...people, cars, falling acorns, other dogs. I feel like I have a 50 pound dog on the leash instead of a 13 pounder. She starts her 'tude with passerbys who look at her and laugh, I've had a few say "oooohhh, you are scaring meee". She'll pass huge ass dogs and growl/bark/try to lunge at them and I tell her "they will swallow you like a doggie treat!"

[Downwinder]

15. Only to rats and snakes.

edit to add: Perhaps the Deputy felt he qualified.

[The Doctor.]

26. That's the only real explanation.

[lonestarnot]

88. They are hell on turds too.

:7

[Auntie Bush]

17. Both!

[geckosfeet]

23. Likely both.

[ladjf]

50. Sadist is the word. nt

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Skittles]

96. a Jack Russell named PRINCESS

probably your garden-variety gun nut

[madrchsod]

4. poor policeman...those jack russells are killer dogs!

[rdking647]

5. if a cop where to ever shoot one of my dogs

hes a dead man... period....

[Lionessa]

13. What a bunch of bull. Or if not bull, you need help. I get so tired of seeing this

bullshit bravado. Like killing a cop, even a bad one, is a good idea, or justifiable. Hell, killing a bad ordinary person isn't a good thing, killing for wars isn't a good thing, the ONLY justifiable killing is the one that saves your own life or the lives of those around you. DUH!

[BadDog40]

20. Yet its justifiable to kill family pets?

To some cops pets are target practice, they know the most a person can sue for is $500 so they could give a crap.

[Lionessa]

22. It is possible and imo absolutely true, that both are unjustifiable.

[The Doctor.]

28. I'm so glad that you agree that shooting a cop to defend your dog is justified.

Per you;

"the ONLY justifiable killing is the one that saves your own life or the lives of those around you."



I agree, killing them after the fact is pointless. Let them live in shame forever.

[Lionessa]

30. Humans, sorry, not the same as a dog, no matter how much us dog lovers would like

to believe differently. As a matter of fact, my dogs were so large for one specific reason, so they'd be the dog that likely took the first, second, perhaps even third shots of anyone firing at us, while I got my kids to safety. It's a cruel admission but absolutely true. I loved each and every dog, but those german shepherd mixes were first and foremost time-buyers should the need ever arise.

[DBoon]

32. I hope your dogs are aware you consider them disposable

I think they need a better owner

[Lionessa]

35. A well trained over-sized dog is a huge value, and they each treated as such

having their own beds, full sized futon; special diet but served just after the family, 1/3 acre was our smallest yard, I walked at least one mile each direction to purchase cigs every day, so that was the minimum exercise, and they had two children and ultimately two smaller dogs (one for each child) as part of their family. Indoor/outdoor dogs, being with the family as a general rule since extra eyes on the children's safety, or in the case of my last five years or so, the hens' safefy, was also part of their jobs and seemingly their pleasure as well.

All three of them died of natural causes, so I guess if they knew, they didn't mind.

Now that I have no children with me (grown and helping me nowadays) and no hens, I have a wee small border collie mix, and she's such a sweetie. It's not her job to do anything but be adorable. Still I wouldn't kill anyone who killed her, it's just not okay to further a fucked up decision with another fucked up decision ... I believe it's called two wrongs don't make a right. I guess I wish we all believed that adage a bit more than we all seem to do, or more correctly seem to spout off about. I seriously doubt any of those in this sub-thread would really kill anyone over a pet, or even over a child, even though we seem to all brag that we would.

[Jester Messiah]

33. I love how you state your opinion as a "matter of fact."

I say a life is a life, and the cop was the first to begin the life taking. As ye sew, so shall ye reap.

[rdking647]

34. a cop killing my dog is no longer human in my eyes

[Lionessa]

38. So that makes it right to kill him because he was stupid and inhumane?

[The Doctor.]

42. Yes. Just like it is 'right' for us to put down any lower animal

who threatens life and order.

If we kill animals that attack humans, why should we not put down animals that attack humanity?

[rdking647]

45. yep

just like an aggressive dog sometimes needs to be put to sleep

[The Doctor.]

40. So you would sacrifice your dogs, but not kill to save them. That is contrary to your statement.

"the ONLY justifiable killing is the one that saves your own life or the lives of those around you."

The difference between people like you who will use a dog as an expendable tactical device and people like myself who will use them as an integrated part of a greater strategy is that I WILL kill any assholes who shoot my Shepherds.

Get your fallback positions right so you don't have to let your most loyal guardian die. Cover them as you would your most valiant soldiers. Guard their lives as they guard yours. Only then will you be worthy of their loyalty and affection.

Just think about that.

[The Doctor.]

53. Dupe

"ish"

[DBoon]

31. This isn't bullshit bravado

My dog is my family and a good friend.

Someone kills my dog in front of me, well how would you feel if someone killed your child in front of you.

Dogs have died defending their humans. Some humans would return the favor.

[The Doctor.]

41. *woof*

That's all.

[poverlay]

36. Or the life of your pet..

[Downwinder]

85. They still won't tell me who shot my dog while I was away at

school. That was almost 60 years ago.

[guitar man]

104. I wouldn't kill him

But I'd look him up when he was off duty and give him an ass whipping he wouldn't soon forget :grr:

[Booster]

6. It's time we demand that cops take a thorough mental test

every couple of years. This is ridiculous. I have a Jack Russell and no way could anybody feel threatened by one.

[LeftyMom]

7. How on earth would a cop feel threatened by a Jack Russell?

Anyplace one could possibly reach to bite would be covered by thick boots on a typical police uniform.

[immoderate]

8. My friend had one that liked to bite children and attack infants.

They covered up for it until it bit his wife. Then they put it down.

--imm

[sabrina 1]

25. Big brave cop is not a child or an infant. My SIL has two of them

and another friend has one also. If they attacked me I would laugh probably, throw a towel or blanket or jacket over them, and problem solved.

A dog has only one weapon, its mouth. A cop should never have to shoot a dog like that since all you have to do is cover the head. He should have thrown his jacket over it, and that would have ended the problem.

Most decent cops probably would have done that. This one doesn't belong on the Police Dept.

[immoderate]

44. I should have mentioned that too. I don't think that cop should have shot...

this dog.

I'm just saying that the dog could have had a dark side.

--imm

[unapatriciated]

64. Put a blanket on our Randall and he goes to sleep.

Randall tried to nip a few times when someone new came to "his" home but backed off quickly with a little squirt from a water bottle.

[sabrina 1]

68. Lol, that is adorable!!

And the water bottle is a good idea also.

We had a dog, Teddy, who would become fierce when he saw a strange person, mostly men (and he loved kids btw). We discovered however, that if the stranger would just say his name 'Teddy', all the snarling and growling would instantly stop. But trying to convey this bite-saving info to a scared, cornered person was often difficult. We were lucky that he never actually bit anyone, and that some of his victims became our, and his, best friends.

The other strange thing about him was if you put a jacket oh him, (for fun I once put a little denim jacket on him) like your dog with the blanket, he would become limp almost. We used it as a sort of tranquilizer whenever we had guests. I asked the vet about it once, (he was very badly behaved at the vet's also), and he said he didn't know why it worked, but to keep on doing it since it worked. All these strange behaviors made him famous in our town.

Kids love him though, as he was always in trouble, so they kind of related to that, and he loved them because they always seemed to have something to feed him.

Love that photo, thanks for posting it :-)

[The Doctor.]

87. Awww... Randall's SO cute!

What's the dog's name?

[unapatriciated]

101. lol I will tell lame54 you think he's cute

he is an attention seeker.
This is our other rescue dog Snoothie Boothies (lame is a fan of silent bob both dogs fit their names perfectly)
She favors her mother ;) We took this pic at Dana Point 2004 Wagathon. Snootchie gave out dog biscuits (our employer donated all the treats) and kisses at the event.

[The Doctor.]

55. My friend had a pet alien that made bikes fly.

IOW; a rare creature.

[immoderate]

59. My feeling is troublesome or troubled Jack Russels are less rare.

I admit to little exposure to the breed. But they seem more nervous and skittish than most. My friend's Jack Russel had papers and histories that I can't match, but I'm pretty mellow.

You're kidding about the alien, right? :P

--imm

[The Doctor.]

60. Ummm.... yeah.... no alien... really.... I'm pretty sure.

(so long as you don't go by 'agent M' I'll tell you the story)

Srsly tho, Jackies are HIGHLY energetic. Pound for pound stronger and faster than any other dog. Unlike most other terriers, they are HIGHLY protective. Not that other terriers aren't, but these little guys are orders of madnitude (typo intended) more vicious toward perceived threats than even stalwart shepherds.

It's no surprise that this little gal was doing her level best to ward off a threat to her family. She knew the person's intentions and put herself between the threat and her family without hesitation.

If that officer was trained, he could have dealt with the imposition in any number of other ways.

That little terrier is a hero in my book, and that officer was a coward.

Only one of them really did their duty that day.

[unapatriciated]

77. I agree with everything you have said about Jacks and would add

there sense of smell as well. Our Jack can find his favorite toy (his ball) in an matter of minuets. When we are tired of playing his game of catch we try to hide it in hopes he will give up. They never give up.
He does like to cuddle but only when he says the game is over (see his pic up thread).

[Lionessa]

12. My son's JR/AS mix would jump easily 6 ft, and was sooooooo protective of my son,

no question he could've done some damage. I mentioned in a thread about dob being shot, that I had an affinity to large dogs and even gentle ones needed to be on leash all the time as a courtesy to the public at large who have no way of knowing till it's too late if a dog is growling as a threat or it will become a vicious fight.

That being said, as my son was smaller and younger, his first dog was a JR/AS mix, and I'm telling you, of all the dogs we had, he was the one we had to worry about viciousness or violence from. I had no idea, but I sure learned. Fortunately our situation was a family member being totally threatened, and we intervened in time, so no harm, but it was an intense few moments and to a human there was no good reason for the dog to respond. To the dog, the relative moved toward my son too assertively considering the dog didn't know him, but we did, we knew, my son knew, but as with many relatives, it was a once a year, maybe twice, situation.

Anyway, yes, I'd easily consider a JR a threat if it was actively heading my direction and I know they can jump 5-6ft, and are great at catching things in their mouths while in the air, a throat perhaps, a face, an arm, and all dogs have a pretty good jaw locking mechanism if they chose to latch on it seems.

[The Doctor.]

63. Stop defending him.

Police are supposed to be physically fit.

My meaning should be clear; That JR was no threat to an armed cop.

Stop defending him. He could have used pepper-spray or just his boot or even hands. Don't even try to lecture me, I trained German Shepherds and I know that it doesn't take much training to negate one's attack or subdue it. They're only a real threat when in pairs against an unarmed person.

This cop was armed, and a SINGLE Jack Russel Terrier was threatening him.

He's a coward.

Period.

[Arkansas Granny]

47. I've known a few people who were bitten or attacked by dogs when they were young

and they still have what some would call an unreasonable fear of dogs. Any dog coming at them growling and showing teeth would be considered a threat, regardless of the size of the dog. Even little dogs have sharp teeth. They would do anything it took to keep that dog away from them, including shooting them if they were armed. I don't know if this is the case with the officer involved, just saying.

I'm sorry the woman lost her dog. It would be horrible to see your pet killed in front of you. However, I find it hard believe that the officer shot the dog just for sport.

[unapatriciated]

78. I don't think he shot the dog for sport,

he did it because it was the easiest way for him to handle the situation. Unfortunately too many cops respond with unnecessary force first and usually it is on their fellow man. We have seen many cases regarding Occupy that documents this.

[lbrtbell]

9. Even if he felt threatened by the dog

THAT'S when you use pepper spray, not bullets. A small burst of pepper spray will quickly subdue a dog. For crying out loud, the 10% OC gas that cops carry (a/k/a pepper spray) is used as bear repellent--believe me, it will chase a Jack Russell terrier away.

WTF is with cops lately?

[idiotgardener]

11. No, no, no...

pepper spray is for when no one is doing ANYTHING and you want them to.

Guns are for when someone is doing SOMETHING and you want them to stop.

Clearly that's what's being taught in the police academy these days.

[freshwest]

37. Good analysis of it.

[Lionessa]

16. Now there's the perfect solution. In another thread a cyclist

shot a dog. My first thought, though I have no way of determining from what little I read, was that the dog was a cycle chaser.

My dad rode motorcycles and had dogs chasing him and it could become dangerous. I had one run headlong into my bicycle and my daughter in the back seat got a concussion. Huge rottie barreled across the street and just slammed into the bike sideways. This was before helmets for cycling were readily available, and the child seat didn't wrap as far as they do now, they were just glorified l-shaped pieces of plastic.

Anyway, I notice I'm rambling today, my dad, knowing he couldn't shoot all the neighbors dogs, made water balloons full of ammonia water and dropped them on the dogs. They quit nipping at his boots and tires right quick I can tell you. One of the rare things my father did that I have a position thought about. It was a good solution, safely executed.

[a la izquierda]

84. I have dogs large and small and have had them all my life...

I love my dogs. I also like my legs and body intact. When I'm out cycling (not a motorcycle), I'm chased pretty frequently. Normally, the little ones don't bother me. However, I've been chased by pit bulls, rottweilers, GSDs, dobies, you name it. They get too close, they get sprayed in the face. Next is a kick in the head by a metal-plated shoe. That will usually keep them away.
I'm more worried about the jackass drivers who think it's cute to run me into ditches and cross into my lane head-on.

[Logical]

18. Wow, big tough cop scared of a small dog. What an asshole.

[Capitalocracy]

19. jack russell terrier...

[flvegan]

21. Thank the gods that no 5 year old child came running out of the house with a fake lightsaber.

Fuck that douchebag cop. Trigger happy motherfucker. Go die.

[ellisonz]

24. What an idiotic asshole.

[Tom Ripley]

27. Another coward with a badge

[Jamastiene]

29. What a wimp.

I wouldn't be happy about that either. I would still be hounding that department with what I thought of that.

[coyote]

39. This guy should lose his badge....

Blackwell said the deputy could have kicked the dog, used his baton on it, sprayed Mace on it or even stunned it with a Taser, “but he didn’t have to kill her.”

In his report following the shooting, Deputy Nick Hesse said he was going to the residence to serve an arrest warrant on Blackwell’s son.

When he arrived at the home, he noticed the front door was open, but the screen door appeared closed and he could hear barking dogs coming toward the front door.

Hesse said he soon noticed the dogs jumping against the screen door, causing it to open. He said he began to back away, and that is when the dog now known as Princess started running after him and showing its teeth. Hesse said after retreating for about 12 feet, that was when he drew his gun and fired a single shot between Princess’ shoulders, stopping her immediately.

http://www.chronicleonline.com/content/deputy-shoots-kills-dog

[TorchTheWitch]

43. this would never have happened if she had trained dogs that couldn't

have broken out of the door. Frankly, she's an ass for not controlling her aggressive dogs and not having trained them that busting right through the door and attacking anyone that comes to the door is unacceptable behavior. What if it was a child that had come to the door?

I'm actually not sure about whether or not I believe the officer was justified in shooting the dog as this story isn't as ridiculous as it seems. I admit at first I thought this guy was a complete nutter feeling threatened by a bitty little Jack Russell, but those dogs aren't bitty (either a mix or the biggest damn Jack Russell I've ever seen), and there were two of them both of which had free access to leave the house. Though only one left the house he had no way of knowing if the other one would or not, and odds are if both are behaving in the same aggressive manner and one breaks out the other one is going to follow. Taking on two dogs is a whole different ball game, and these weren't bitty little "lap dogs" as she claims going by this photo...



That's a medium sized dog. If that dog was sitting up with it's butt on her lap they'd be eyeball to eyeball, and that sized dog is no bitty little lap dog. Yeah, I can see that he would have felt threatened by TWO dogs that are medium sized coming at him. I don't know about whether or not the gun was the proper deterrent as I don't know what the officer had on him that would stop cold TWO attacking dogs. Did he even have a baton? I don't think our local police use them anymore in favor of the taser. Did he have pepper spray or mace or something like that on him? I don't think that's something police normally always carry on them since it's more for crowd use. As I understand it, police officers don't normally carry a gun, taser, baton, pepper spray or mace on them all at the same time. For instance, if they carry a taser they wouldn't carry pepper spray or mace, etc,. What did this officer actually have on him in the way of weapons? If all he had was a gun and a taser, what kind of taser was it? Some of them require direct contact to the person and others shoot out at the person like some kind of dart type of thing or something like that so the officer can be at some distance from the person (or dog in this case). If his taser required direct contact to the dog it's likely he'd still get bit. And if he had to use it on two dogs it's far more likely.

I don't believe that anyone, including a police officer, should be expected to put themselves into the position of being bitten if they have the means to not be bitten even if that means killing the dog. A dog bite even from a bitty little dog to the hand or forearm can seriously fuck up the full use of that hand or arm, and that would be a big problem for someone in a position like a police officer to continue in their job. I have to admit, as much as I adore dogs, if I had a gun and was in the position of very possibly being bitten that could seriously fuck up the full use of my hand or arm I'd shoot the dog. I'd feel terrible about it, but my body parts are a shitload more important than someone else's untrained aggressive attacking dogs.

Frankly, I'm pissed off at these people for having such aggressive and dangerous dogs that were left uncontrolled. For heaven's sake it could have been anyone those dogs went after including a child. And if that were the story this woman would be raked over the coals and given no sympathy. I'm pissed off that she's complaining why didn't he do this or that instead of shooting the dog when the correct questions are WHY THE FUCK DO YOU ALLOW YOUR DOGS TO BREAK OUT OF THE HOUSE AND ATTACK SOMEONE???

It's really debatable whether or not this officer was justified in shooting the dog considering we don't know what other options he had in order to not get bitten. But who is most at fault for the dog getting shot is the woman who owns aggressive dogs that are so uncontrolled they were able to break out of the house and attempt to attack someone. I have BIG problem with that. Yes, I realize it's become the favorite sport here to disparage police officers across the board even more so now than Republicans, but there is no question whatsoever that had this same exact thing occurred not to a police officer but to a child, a neighbor or her own dear grandma it would be HER justifiably getting the blame, and the outcome would more likely have been a bitten innocent person rather than her aggressive uncontrolled attacking dog getting killed. Her dog would be alive today if she carried even one iota about the deplorable and dangerous behavior of her dogs and put forth the minimum of effort to make sure that such badly behaved and dangerous dogs could not so easily escape the house by breaking right out through the door.

It should also be noted that one of her neighbors witnessed the incident and said that the officer was justified in shooting the dog. The bottom line here is that the officer was put into this position solely because of her aggressive and dangerous dogs that she allowed to so easily break out of the house and attempt to attack someone. It's really pretty outrageous that she would be complaining that someone who her dog broke out of the house to attack didn't put forth the effort to damage her dog as little as possible even if it meant they got bit. What the fuck is THAT shit?

[tammywammy]

46. +1 n/t

[Arkansas Granny]

48. +1

[A Simple Game]

49. Finally, a sane voice.

And I am one of the first to condemn the police.

[The Doctor.]

57. 'Sane' my ass.

Defending the killing of a dog that could have been dealt with in a dozen other ways is not 'sane'. It is rationalizing needless slaughter and absolutely blaming the victim.

No matter what anyone says, the dog was the victim. The owners may have been irresponsible, but creating the impression that the one with an arsenal of weaponry and options was the victim is simply fucking ludicrous.

[A Simple Game]

61. I'm not blaming the victim. I am defending a potential victim.

I am blaming the owner of the victim.

I have been around Jack Russell terriers and when they come at you they come fast.

What was the arsenal of weaponry the cop had, other than the obvious gun, I didn't read about his other options? Maybe he had some, maybe he didn't, let me know because you obviously know what he had on him.

The neighbor saw it and thought it was justified. May have been prejudiced because of exposure to the dogs though, but I don't know that for a fact, let me know would you?

I have very little respect for cops, but have never been physically harmed by one. I have been bitten by dogs, I have less respect for their owners.

[The Doctor.]

65. Fair enough.

Look, I agree that the owner may have dropped the ball here, but that does not justify judgment of them. We simply don't know.

The neighbor didn't understand that the dog was responding to a threat. Jackies are VERY protective and, as I've said, pound for pound stronger and faster than any other dog on the planet.

But your point is just ridiculous. It doesn't matter what the cop had for an 'arsenal'. He had a foot, and it was likely in a boot or a shoe. If your point is that cops aren't physically capable of defending themselves against a little terrier without a gun, then you've also made the point that they shouldn't be cops at all.

[A Simple Game]

81. Did the owner know it was the cop walking toward the door?

If the owner knew it was the cop, or anyone for that matter, coming toward their door and didn't warn the person and/or didn't contain the dog, would that be assault on the owners part? Assault with a deadly weapon? Perhaps the cop saw what is pound for pound a stronger and faster than any other dog on the planet coming toward him, and not a little terrier.

What if the person walking toward the door and triggering the defensive attack had been a five year old child? Should they be expected to defend themselves with their flip flops?

The cop may have done the owner a favor and not allowed the dog to reach him. If the dog had touched the cop I'm sure the owner would be facing charges. The owner should shut up and be happy they aren't charged with anything.

So the neighbor didn't understand what they saw, when they were right there and saw it? But you know everything there is to know about the situation from a short article? And what threat that the dog was responding to are you talking about? At that point the cop was no threat to anyone.

What mostly amazes me is that the cop actually hit the running dog with the bullet, most are not good shots.

[The Doctor.]

86. Yeah.

"Your point is just ridiculous. It doesn't matter what the cop had for an 'arsenal'. He had a foot, and it was likely in a boot or a shoe. If your point is that cops aren't physically capable of defending themselves against a little terrier without a gun, then you've also made the point that they shouldn't be cops at all.

For a 'progressive' site, there are too few here who seem to grasp 'progression'.

[A Simple Game]

89. Let's recap.

From your previous post, you agree the owner may have dropped the ball, but that does not justify judgment of them. We simply don't know.

We know the neighbor said the shooting was justified. You don't agree, you weren't there, he was, you apparently "just know".

We know the cop shot the dog. You somehow justify judgment of him. You weren't there, he was, you apparently "just know".

You say the cop should have used a shoe to defend himself from a "little terrier". Earlier you had described the breed as "Jackies are VERY protective and, as I've said, pound for pound stronger and faster than any other dog on the planet." So which one was the cop defending himself from?

And you say my point is ridiculous?

You did get one thing right, I am not a progressive. I am a liberal and always have been, and not ashamed to call myself one!

[The Doctor.]

90. Uh-huh.

One more time;

"Your point is just ridiculous. It doesn't matter what the cop had for an 'arsenal'. He had a foot, and it was likely in a boot or a shoe. If your point is that cops aren't physically capable of defending themselves against a little terrier without a gun, then you've also made the point that they shouldn't be cops at all."

If you address the point, then we can proceed.

I'll ask another question in the midst of your failure to address the point;

"How much damage did the terrier do?"

[A Simple Game]

92. Will it help if I type it real slow.

My ridiculous point of view is this. A witness said the cop was justified to shoot the dog. Someone else, you, read the same story that I read and decided the cop was not justified in shooting the dog. I have decided to agree with the witness that was on the scene. Pretty ridiculous of me.

Did you say terriers were the strongest and fastest breed of dog? I may not agree, but bow to your expertise. Apparently the cop agreed with your assessment.


"How much damage did the terrier do?" None, that obviously was the cops reason for shooting it. How much damage should he have let it do before using lethal force? As an expert, you know that the tenacious Jack Russell terriers have been know to die rather than give up when in a fight and are not afraid to attack much larger animals.

[The Doctor.]

93. You're cute.

Here's what we don't know;

-Whether the neighbor you've decided to place your faith in was objective, had decent eyesight, actually saw the event, and didn't already hate the dog for barking all hours of the night and had just a wide enough vindictive streak to spite their neighbor.

You don't know.

Here's what we do know;

- The cop was armed with more than a gun, was wearing footwear, and outweighed the dog significantly.
- The dog was not armed with anything more than teeth, which, unless you're really ignorant, are still not as lethal as bullets fired from a gun.
- The cop shot the dog.

Which brings us right back to the same point I keep making that you want to avoid;

"Your point is just ridiculous. It doesn't matter what the cop had for an 'arsenal'. He had a foot, and it was likely in a boot or a shoe. If your point is that cops aren't physically capable of defending themselves against a little terrier without a gun, then you've also made the point that they shouldn't be cops at all."

By this time, as you've decided to defend the armed and powerful killing the barely lethal (Yes, still waiting for you to provide the "Police Deaths by Jack Russel Terrier" stats you can't seem to find) under circumstances you only think you know, it is apparent that you are not someone who is reasonable. Don't respond. I won't be kind to you anymore.

[A Simple Game]

94. Wow, make assumptions much?

What we do know about the neighbor. He was there, you weren't.

Wearing shoes is considered being armed? News to me.

I will try one more time to answer your foot as a defensive weapon question. If I am expected to defend myself against according to your own description, "Jackies are VERY protective and, as I've said, pound for pound stronger and faster than any other dog on the planet." I would probably want more than a shoe. What would you like for a weapon against such a foe?

You are completely right that I can't find any "Police Deaths by Jack Russel Terrier" stats, I haven't looked. Can't remember claiming that there were any Police deaths from dogs of any kind, kindly tell me which post that was in.

Now that I have answered your question, kindly tell me why you are a better eye witness than the neighbor? Is the Jack Russell "pound for pound the strongest and fastest dog on the planet, or is it just a little terrier?

Sorry I almost forgot, thanks for calling me cute, it seems you may be prescient after all. And please get as nasty as you like, I like it that way!

[The Doctor.]

95. You're both 'cute' and 'mentally inverted'. I've made no 'assumptions'. That's your department.

You are assuming the neighbor is reliable. I am not. You have chosen to believe what you cannot defend, I only believe the facts. Those facts are pretty plain and I've spelled them out 'S-L-O-W-L-Y' just for you. If you don't like the fact that a cop killed a dog he could have subdued in a dozen other ways, then I desperately hope you don't have a dog... or any other dependent for that matter. I'm sure if it were a child with a stick, which could do about the same damage, you'd be all for killing the child as well. Yes, I'm saying that a Jackie is as much a threat to an armed adult as a child. Like I said, get the fucking stats on Jackies killing cops and I'll pretend you're worth taking seriously.

So, your argument is that the cop was too untrained and incompetent at his job, and therefore had to shoot an animal that has never killed a cop in recorded history.

I'm very glad this exchange has shed light on your 'position', which is apparently to defend the indefensible. I asked you for any evidence that Jackies are cop killers.

Now Fetch boy.

[A Simple Game]

102. I just did a quick review of the thread.

Looks like you are being shot down(pun intended) by more than just me.

Am I assuming the neighbor was reliable? I am assuming the neighbor has more chance of being reliable than someone(you) that wasn't there, such a ridiculous thought.

I do have a dog, a rescued shepherd husky mix. She's a beautiful, friendly dog that is never off the leash when she is outside the house. I would never let put her in the position to be shot or, your preferred punishment for having a bad owner and behaving badly, kicked into submission.

I would want a child with a stick killed? Where did that come from? You are losing it, best sit down and have a nice cup of tea, relax. All of that reaching you are doing will cause you to displace a joint or something!

You appear to have an aversion to answering, not asking, questions but please tell me in which post I argued that the cop was untrained and incompetent. For all we know he was very highly trained and in a split second chose the best solution to the problem.

Why should I give you any evidence that Jackies are cop killers, I never made that claim. You on the other hand have stated that they are not. Where is the proof?

As for the Fetch statement, keep throwing racist statements around and someone will push the alert button on you.

[TorchTheWitch]

97. Oh yes, we DO know

We definitely know that the owner had aggressive dangerous dogs that she left uncontrolled to such a degree that they were able to break out of the house right through the door. That we most definitely know. And had she not allowed the dogs to behave in that manner and kept them under enough control that they were not able to break right out through the door none of this would have happened. NO ONE who is innocently going about their business should ever have to be put into the position of physically defending themselves from an attacking dog. That is ALWAYS the fault of the owner - ALWAYS. Walking up to someone's door is innocently going about one's business. At the very least this woman should have had a prominent sign posted that there were dangerous dogs on the premises so that people could at least have some warning and decide for themselves whether or not to go right up to the door. But this police officer had no choice but to go up to the door since he had to serve the warrant, but at least if there was a prominent sign posted he'd have had some warning of what could occur and be better prepared.

It makes not a shit's bit of difference that the dog was reacting to what it perceived as a threat. ANY time a dog attacks it is reacting to a perceived threat. You yourself are justifying the officer's actions in describing the aggressive and dangerous nature of untrained and uncontrolled Jack Russell terriers in their protectiveness, strength and speed. Had these been average bitty little Jack Russells I would agree that the officer probably went overboard, but the WEREN'T. Either they're crossbreeds with larger dogs or they were the biggest Jack Russells I've ever seen. In that photo of the one dog sitting in the woman's lap that is clearly a medium sized dog regardless of what breed it is.

Had it only been one dog I might also agree that the officer went to far. But it was TWO. Yes, only one of them broke out of the house but they were BOTH acting in the same aggressive manner, and once the one was so easily able to break out any normal thinking person would have realized that the second dog would likely break out following the first dog as well. This officer was not just protecting himself from one attacking dog, he was in the position of facing one attacking dog with a second one VERY likely to join in. Protecting yourself from one attacking dog is one thing, protecting yourself from two of them is entirely different and far more dangerous to a person.

We have no idea what arsenal the officer had on hand. If he did have pepper spray that's what he should have used if he could have gotten to it quickly enough. But since the advent of the taser, most officers decline to carry pepper spray because the taser basically has replaced it as well as a replacement for a baton. Last night while walking the dog we went over to the police station like we always do since that's his favorite place to go, and I made a point to see whether or not they carry batons. They don't. Maybe they have them to carry in specific instances like if they ever had a reason to be fledged out in full riot gear, but generally they don't have them in favor of the taser. The taser after all came into being as a replacement for batons and probably pepper spray or mace as well for routine police work.

How is it not absurd for this woman to be pissed off that her attacking dog was shot wondering why the attacked person didn't beat it instead and risk being bitten anyway? It isn't the attacked person's job to defend themselves from an attack in such a way as to do as little damage to the attacking dog as possible and still be put into the position of being bitten and perhaps bitten is such a way that caused permanent damage? I absolute adore dogs, but if someone's dog tries to attack me I'm doing WHATEVER I have to do to keep myself from being injured in any way, and yes, if I had a gun I'd shoot it. I'd feel terrible and it would haunt me the rest of my life, and I would never blame the dog or myself but the owner who put both me and their dog into that position. As a dog owner is is ALWAYS the responsibility of the owner that their dog is controlled at all times and never attacks any innocent person. An innocent person being attacked by someone else's dog is the VICTIM, and it isn't their responsibility to concern themselves with the welfare of the attacking dog OVER the welfare of themselves. PERIOD.

The neighbor who is familiar with the dogs and saw the incident occur is in a HELL of a lot better position than anyone here to believe whether or not the officer acted correctly or not, and it makes not one shit's bit of difference if he knows what breed the dogs are or what they're capable of or why they attacked.

What is ludicrous here is blaming this officer for caring about his own welfare over the welfare of a dog that is attacking him and the VERY real possibility that it was about to be TWO dogs attacking him. This officer was the VICTIM who was put into the position of having to defend himself from the attacking dangerous dogs of the owner that were able to break out of the house, and the fact that they behaved in this way and were able to break out of the house is ENTIRELY the fault of the owner. PERIOD.

[treestar]

72. Only because they were going towards a police officer

What if they'd been going after small children? Or any civilian? And the person got bitten?

Underlying fault lies with the owner who did not have them under control.

[The Doctor.]

74. Funny how that wasn't the case. You know why?

Because most dogs act on threat or fear and they actually stop short of attacking when the threat is outside of their territory. Jackies do not keep territory outside of their owners' perimeter and will not pursue past a particular limit.

Your ignorance of dogs does not excuse this cop, no matter how much you believe in might making right.

Now go get the stats on Jackies killing children that come anywhere near the stats on cops killing dogs or people.

Or just STFU.

[treestar]

76. That just happened to be a cop

you are not seriously claiming dogs are most likely to attack cops as opposed to anyone else?

Like the other poster said, this lady is lucky it was a cop. Had it been a child she'd be condemned for exactly the same behavior.

[The Doctor.]

80. NTSBOTC, are ya?

Yes, dogs are more likely to attack cops under particular circumstances.

You understand nothing about dogs. Please take your ignorance elsewhere.

[Downwinder]

82. I know a standard poodle whose owner worked for FedX that

objected to UPS personnel.

[tammywammy]

91. And honestly, if the officer had kicked the dog (like some are suggesting) and the owner complaine

People would be outraged by that as well.

:shrug:

[TorchTheWitch]

105. Oh for God's sake

Now people are supposed to just wait and see whether or not an attacking dog actually completes the attack before defending themselves? If a dog is running at you barking and snarling with its teeth bared you're supposed to do NOTHING and WAIT to see if it leaps on you and bites you FIRST??? You can only defend yourself if the dog has the potential to kill you? You have to just stand there and let an attacking dog bite you just because it doesn't have the potential to kill you???

Most dogs that give every sign of attacking don't stop short of attacking, and it's NOT the responsibility of the person the dog is giving every sign that they are about to attack to wait and see if they do or not because then it's too damn late, which is pretty damn obvious. These dogs were IN their own territory when they went after this officer as he was in the yard at the time. If you don't think that the yard is also part of a dog's territory than you don't know shit about dogs. A dog's territory is as big as the space they mark out with their urine and can be as large as an entire neighborhood.

What absurd excuse making nonsense.

[coyote]

51. This must be truly an American phenomenon....

I have lived in Germany for 12 years. I have never heard of a dog being killed by the police here. In the US, you hear of a dog being killed by the police every other week. Must be that German dogs are different or just maybe the German police handle the same situation differently.

[treestar]

73. Are there a lot of untrained dogs there?

That just run out snarling at people? I'm taking a guess Germans would be more likely to train the dogs properly.

[TorchTheWitch]

98. or maybe Germans are a lot better than Americans at training and

controlling their dogs?

Or maybe the German police prefer beating them to death instead causing far more pain and suffering to the dog than an instant kill with a bullet?

Or maybe the German media isn't concerned with informing the German public of every dog attack in the country in favor of more important news? The US media certainly prefers informing the public of incidentals rather than what is most important and certainly loves to jump on every "bad dog" story they can find but usually they only prefer the Pit Bull attacks whether the dog is actually a Pit Bull or not.

[coyote]

99. Oh give it a rest.

You don't kill a dog just because it snarls at you. If an office cannot handle a jack russel terrier, he has no business being a cop.

Using the same logic here that it's justified to blow away dogs because they are charging you, why don't we just shoot all people who charge police. Some drunk guys comes charging you from a bar....shoot and kill him.

This officer had a thousand different other options to use before you pull out a hand gun.

[TorchTheWitch]

103. the dog was attacking - hardly just snarling at him

This was a medium sized dog that broke out of the house and ran at him to attack him. No one is obligated to fend off a dog attack in such a way as to be more concerned about the damage they might do to the dog over their own well being especially if it means the risk of being bitten.

No fucking sympathy for anyone that has aggressive dogs that can break out of the house and attack someone, and I don't give a shit if it was a child or a police officer the dog was attacking. It was the OWNER's responsibility to properly train their dogs and make sure they were under physical control so as not to cause harm to anyone. The dog got killed because the owner didn't give a shit about either training her dogs nor making sure they couldn't break out of the house. Had she done so there wouldn't have BEEN any attack in the first place.

There was also TWO dogs he was facing, not just one. Being attacked by one dog is bad enough. Being attacked by TWO is far worse and seriously limits one's options.

Let's see that list of the thousand other options he had to stop the dog from attacking him without the risk of being bitten as well as stopping the second dog from joining in.

[The Doctor.]

56. Oh dear God.

It was a fucking JACK RUSSEL TERRIER.

He could have done anything to stop it before shooting it.

Why are there so many here who defend the actions of the strong and powerful against the weak.

[uppityperson]

69. This is a very big Jack Russell terrier. Here's the picture. Bigger than most I've ever seen

And I've seen a lot. It looks big for even a rat terrier. Not defending "he actions of the strong and powerful against the weak", just saying it is a good sized dog.

[The Doctor.]

75. Yeah, that is. And if the pound-for-pound formula carries (which actually pans off at a level)

Then she was still pretty bad-ass.

Hell, that size might be a match for my Shilos.

Thing is, it's still an imbalance of power. She didn't even get the chance to bite and she likely wouldn't have. Gunning her down was an act of cowardice. Period.

[The Straight Story]

58. My 2 cents

1. Used to own one of those dogs myself, wrestled with it all the time (she loved to wrestle). Could easily handle her (my old german shepherd though was a big tougher...).

2. Having been a deputy I can say that if such a dog came at me I could deal with it in a non-lethal way - the only time I would consider using a gun on such a dog is if it were a snap decision and there was someone nearby who could do me more harm if I was engaged (ie, using both hands to handle the dog).

The cop's situational awareness plays a role in such cases, but with smaller dogs you can kick them aside, etc.

In THIS case they were serving a warrant, they were not raiding a house and the cop was caught off guard (something he should not have been, they are trained to deal with pets and to ask for/expect them in these situations).

This is one of those cases where things like pepper spray or other non-lethal means would have sufficed.

[The Doctor.]

66. Actually...

That's a dollar plus change.

[TorchTheWitch]

100. the officer was facing TWO dogs

Whole different thing when defending yourself against one dog than defending yourself against TWO. Granted, the second dog had not broken out of the house but it easily could have just as the first one did, and any normal thinking person would have surmised that TWO dogs behaving in an aggressive manner that when one of them easily broke out of the house that the second would very likely follow. In the officer's mind - as it would have in anyone's - he was not just facing the attack of one dog but the attack of one dog that was VERY likely to be joined by a second dog.

If he was serving a warrant it's likely their would have been no contact with the people in the house beforehand as when one serves a warrant they need to catch the people off guard in order to be ABLE to serve it.

Pepper spray would have been far more ideal in this situation, but did the officer even have any on him? Most officers don't normally carry it in favor of the taser. We don't know if he either had pepper spray or could have gotten it into position to use quickly enough if he did have it. NO ONE - not even a police officer - is ever the responsible person to be concerned of the welfare of an attacking dog OVER the welfare of themselves and should never be required to put themselves into the position of being bitten in order to least damage the attacking dog. It is ALWAYS the responsibility of the owner to ensure that their dog does not ever attack an innocent person. And any person merely walking up to the front door of a house is an innocent person. That police officer could just have easily been a neighbor, a child selling Girl Scout cookies or the owner's own grandma who had no means to protect themselves and would have been bitten as well as frightened out of their wits.

[TheKentuckian]

67. This is the kind of hair trigger threat assessment you think is passable in a peace officer?

And your over the top self righteousness about the dog, about any dog running out the door is fucking crazy.

I've not seen but the most well trained dogs NEVER run off, they are living creatures with minds not machines. Even a well behaved as one could hope for dog could run outside on occasion.
Someone called this sane, I call it easily over the top to the point of approaching farce.

The cop is a sadistic chump and the exact wrong kind of soul for such a position.

[treestar]

71. Good perspective

I was going along with the crowd until I read your post. Good point about the children.

[chaska]

62. COPS NEED ANIMAL TRAINING. They shoot people's dogs all the time.

[Capitalocracy]

79. I think they do have animal training.

I'm pretty sure point and click is what they're trained to do.

[Liberal_in_LA]

70. horrible!

[uppityperson]

83. This subject line has stuck in my head since I read it. Think I'll add it to my "no shit sherlock"

file. I'd like to see "woman happy about deputy shooting her dog" headline. Maybe if she were getting mauled, but otherwise? Of course she's not happy.

Nothing about the story, but the headline is sloppy. I know it came from the link, but it is sloppy.

[tabasco]

106. Shoot my fucking dog.

I burn down your fucking house.