Waianae high school in Hawaii was using student room cleaners til this year

[dkf]

Now, till the end of the year you may notice that your fellow peers that used to clean your classes wont be there anymore. Now they’ll be in their classes with their bags not their brooms. But you shall see new cleaners instead of your old friends.

With the economy decreasing and prices increasing, bugets are being cut. For Vice Principal Mr. Ryan Oshita, one of his jobs is to cut those who aren’t pulling their weight. “It always was a problem to find good room cleaners and keep them.” Oshita said. Room cleaners jobs were to mop once a week, sweep the floors every day, and empty the trash once a day. “We have been getting complaints from teachers that their rooms not being cleaned. ” Oshita said. After all these complaints school administration began to search for new room cleaners.

Before the cleaners were fired, Wai`anae High School(WHS) had between 15-17 positions available to students. There was a contract put out to a company called “Janny King”, who consist of 5 people. They started work on February 22 and have a contract until the end of this school year. “We gonna try and see how it goes, and if it works out well, we gonna look to continue the contract to the next year”.

But now that they have new workers, there are no longer any job positions open to students at WHS. For Junior, Luke Cullen, losing his job that he had for 3 years was a surprise. “I was shocked when I found out we were all gonna be laid off, the day I heard it was the last day for us,” Luke said, “I think the head lady could have told us herself, but instead I had to hear it from two of my friends who are also cleaners.” Although there were some cleaners that did not do their jobs well, Luke and a few others did not have that problem. “I did my job, I swept everyday, I took out the trash everyday, and I mopped once a week,” Luke said.

http://www.seariderproductions.com/newsite/kaleo/html/?story=63

[Fumesucker]

1. Room cleaner is not the same thing as a custodian and everyone knows it..

I for one get your point but that's not what Newt was arguing.

[Ilsa]

4. Exactly. Sweeping up a classroom or emptying the trash is far different

From custodial duties. Custodians must handle human waste products, for one thing. Even elementary schools have urine, blood, feces, vomit, menstrual products, to deal with. A worker has to know how to dispose of such items safely and without hurting themselves or spreading illness. That is Not a job for children or teenagers.

[Feron]

26. The use of chemicals is another issue.

The lawsuits from kids huffing solvents because the master janitor can't supervise them all at the same time...Kids getting injuries from improperly handling chemicals.

There are a lot of good reasons why kids don't make good janitors.

It's one thing to teach kids to pick up after themselves and do simple cleanup tasks. It's another to regard them, as Newt does, as a menial workforce to be exploited.

Besides many kids already do work outside of school even if it is something as simple as babysitting.

[happyslug]

27. Actually in the Dictionary of Occupation Title, the name is "Light Cleaner"

Most of the Vocational Experts I run into in my Social Security Hearings call the Position "Light Janitorial" but the actual name in the DOT is "Light Cleaner":
http://www.occupationalinfo.org/38/381687014.html

CODE: 381.687-014
TITLE(s): CLEANER, COMMERCIAL OR INSTITUTIONAL (any industry) alternate titles: clean-up worker;

housekeeper; janitor; laborer, building maintenance; mopper; porter; scrubber; sweeper Keeps premises of office building, apartment house, or other commercial or institutional building in clean and orderly condition: Cleans and polishes lighting fixtures, marble surfaces, and trim, and performs duties described in CLEANER (any industry) I Master Title. May cut and trim grass, and shovel snow, using power equipment or handtools. May deliver messages. May transport small equipment or tools between departments. May setup tables and chairs in auditorium or hall. May be designated according to duties performed as Hall Cleaner (hotel & rest.); Light-Fixture Cleaner (any industry); Marble Cleaner (any industry); Metal Polisher (any industry); Paint Cleaner (any industry); or according to equipment used as Scrubbing-Machine Operator (any industry).
GOE: 05.12.18 STRENGTH: H GED: R1 M1 L1 SVP: 2 DLU: 88
ONET CROSSWALK: 67005 Janitors and Cleaners, Except Maids and Housekeeping Cleaners

On the other hand a proper Janitor is defined as follows:
CODE: 382.664-010
TITLE(s): JANITOR (any industry) alternate titles: maintenance engineer; superintendent, building

Keeps hotel, office building, apartment house, or similar building in clean and orderly condition and tends furnace, air-conditioner, and boiler to provide heat, cool air, and hot water for tenants, performing any combination of following duties: Sweeps, mops, scrubs, and vacuums hallways, stairs and office space. Regulates flow of fuel into automatic furnace or shovels coal into hand-fired furnace. Empties tenants' trash and garbage containers. Maintains building, performing minor and routine painting, plumbing, electrical wiring, and other related maintenance activities, using handtools. Replaces air-conditioner filters. Cautions tenants regarding complaints about excessive noise, disorderly conduct, or misuse of property. Notifies management concerning need for major repairs or additions to lighting, heating, and ventilating equipment. Cleans snow and debris from sidewalk. Mows lawn, trims shrubbery, and cultivates flowers, using handtools and power tools. Posts signs to advertise vacancies and shows empty apartments to prospective tenants. May reside on property and be designated Manager, Resident (any industry).
GOE: 05.12.18 STRENGTH: M GED: R3 M2 L3 SVP: 3 DLU: 88
ONET CROSSWALK: 67005 Janitors and Cleaners, Except Maids and Housekeeping Cleaners

http://www.occupationalinfo.org/38/382664010.html

[dkf]

8. Well I doubt he was suggesting they do the plumbing.

I'm beginning to realize that we have been doing a lot of things that shock you all, like requiring IDs to vote and having no free school buses and employing kids to clean rooms.

Irony is, the kids have been displaced in favor of adults, not the other way around. So now the kids want permits to work at GameStop.

[sufrommich]

10. Because they are High School kids who could already

get work permits! Hawaii isn't any different in allowing High School age students to work, no one is talking about High School age students.

[Fumesucker]

13. I've been in the same area Newt comes from for a very long time...

There is nothing that comes out of his mouth that's intended to do anything beyond advance what he sees as his own personal interests.

It was typical Newt, said in order to sound smart to a stupid person.

[Bluenorthwest]

15. Voter ID is a right wing method to supress minority votes and

rural votes. No such thing in my State, we'd not allow it. You do. Does not 'shock' me but I most certainly oppose that sort of thing in all states that do it.

[dkf]

20. Funny thing is we are all minorities here. Even the whites are a minority.

White persons, percent, 2010 (a) 24.7%
Black persons, percent, 2010 (a) 1.6%
American Indian and Alaska Native persons, percent, 2010 (a) 0.3%
Asian persons, percent, 2010 (a) 38.6%
Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander, percent, 2010 (a) 10.0%
Persons reporting two or more races, percent, 2010 23.6%
Persons of Hispanic or Latino origin, percent, 2010 (b) 8.9%
White persons not Hispanic, percent, 2010 22.7%

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/15000.html

[ellenfl]

29. wow, hawaii's pop seems to exceed 100%! how does that work? eom

[Morning Dew]

17. Finally

"I'm beginning to realize that we have been doing a lot of things that shock you all"

[liberal N proud]

2. Were the students being paid?

I don't think Newt wants to pay them, just make them do it.

[NYC_SKP]

5. I think Newt wanted to pay them. Min wage I'm sure. And wanted to bust custodian's union....

And end child labor laws to get there.

[SecularMotion]

3. Why did you start another thread?

The discussion is here -

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2361367

[sufrommich]

6. Hawaii schools have adult, union custodians:

http://agency.governmentjobs.com/hawaiidoe/default.cfm?action=viewjob&JobID=273211&headerfooter=1&promo=0&transfer=0&WDDXJobSearchParams=%3CwddxPacket%20version%3D%271%2E0%27%3E%3Cheader%2F%3E%3Cdata%3E%3Cstruct%3E%3Cvar%20name%3D%27FIND%5FKEYWORD%27%3E%3Cstring%3E%3C%2Fstring%3E%3C%2Fvar%3E%3Cvar%20name%3D%27CATEGORYID%27%3E%3Cstring%3E%2D1%3C%2Fstring%3E%3C%2Fvar%3E%3Cvar%20name%3D%27TRANSFER%27%3E%3Cstring%3E0%3C%2Fstring%3E%3C%2Fvar%3E%3Cvar%20name%3D%27PROMOTIONALJOBS%27%3E%3Cstring%3E0%3C%2Fstring%3E%3C%2Fvar%3E%3C%2Fstruct%3E%3C%2Fdata%3E%3C%2FwddxPacket%3E

[sufrommich]

7. Also, you're talking about High School students who are

already allowed to work a certain amount of hours by law.Newt isn't talking about High School students.

[dkf]

11. I thought he mentioned 14 and 16 year olds.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/21/newt-gingrich-says-schools-should-use-students-as-janitors_n_1105288.html

[sufrommich]

16. If he was talking about the 14-16 year range he would not

need to repeal child labor laws. In most states work permits are allowed at 14.

[Pithlet]

19. No. He's talking about kids younger than that.

Kids who can't go to work because they're younger than 14, 16.

[enlightenment]

21. The quote was:

"You say to somebody, you shouldn't go to work before you're what, 14, 16 years of age, fine."

*emphasis mine


In other words, we already allow - to some degree - teenagers to work. He wants to repeal the laws that keep people from putting children under the age of 14 to work. He makes that clear with this quote:

"You go out and talk to people, as I do, you go out and talk to people who are really successful in one generation," he said in his address. "They all started their first job between nine and 14 years of age. They all were either selling newspapers, going door to door, they were doing something, they were washing cars."


You read the article. You know this. Why fan the flames?

[jberryhill]

31. Oh, bullpuckey

My first job, when I was 16, was as an elementary school janitor. No changes to "child labor laws" were needed for me to do that.

And, no, you don't want kids messing around with industrial grade cleaning chemicals.

[Bluenorthwest]

9. Tidy the room in advance of the actual cleaning staff...

not the same as holding responsibility as an official custodian at all. My school had cleaning staff, and yet we prepped our own room for the cleaners, as reason dictates, same when the housekeeper is coming, there are some things you hide, things you set aside, things you mark 'do not touch'. As different from running a floor polishing machine as can be. Different from maintaining the lights and the AC and heating. Of course, you know that.
Also, this is about a high school, not a grade school. Got one for a grade school? That's what you and Newt are promoting. Not teens helping out, but children with jobs for which they are accountable. Tell me, if the child fails, do you throw them out of school or what?

[dkf]

18. Well obviously kids aren't electricians so they shouldn't be touching that sort of thing.

But the floor polisher, yes I think my brother used to use those as a student cleaner.


You know I think the kid in Waianae who is going to find another job is going to do okay in life. It's a nice thing to develop a good work ethic.

[shraby]

23. The old saw "work ethic" is about as false as many of the

old sayings. My kids were allowed to work during the summers, not during the school year and every one has excellent work habits. Don't miss work unless it's impossible to be there and carries their share AT work.
You don't overtly teach good work habits, they are learned from watching adult's attitudes toward work when they are growing up.

[deaniac21]

12. They turned me into a newt....

[deaniac21]

14. They turned me into a newt....

[FarCenter]

22. In elementary school each kid had a job to help the teacher maintain the school.

Depending on your age you would clean erasers, wash the blackboards, empty the wastebaskets in the trash barrel and burn it, sweep the outhouses and make sure there was toilet paper, pump water and carry into the school, etc.

[Morning Dew]

24. Surely, someone chopped the wood for the potbelly stove.

It has to be nice and hot for the teacher to cook the noon meal.

[FarCenter]

25. The school was heated by an oil burning space heater

When it stopped working, one of the fathers was called to fix it. Hopefully before the inside temperature dropped too far towards the below zero degree outdoor temperatures. However, there was never a problem with plumbing freezing, because there wasn't any.

There were no hot meals at lunch. You ate what you had in your lunch box.

[proud2BlibKansan]

28. A lot of private schools hire students to clean.

But it seems like the liability issues would be huge.

[FarCenter]

30. The students shouldn't be paid; it should be part of their instruction

It should be part of teaching them respect for their school, teamwork, and responsibility.

My recollection is that the students held a meeting weekly, at which students were nominated, seconded, and elected to do the simple maintenance tasks.

[Skidmore]

32. All through middle school and high school I worked in the school

cafeteria washing dishes to earn my "free" lunch. This was in the 1960s and early 70s. Never had a lunch period to hang out or to study. Didn't mind it when it was in the teens in the wintertime because I didn't have to go outside with everyone else. Worked for mac and cheese and fish sticks.