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The Teabaggers have already succeeded. Their influence has been much greater than their numbers.

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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 01:23 PM
Original message
The Teabaggers have already succeeded. Their influence has been much greater than their numbers.
Edited on Thu Nov-17-11 01:25 PM by pnwmom
Why? Because they didn't just protest. They put their efforts into the existing political system -- and they've gotten the whole Rethug party to make a sharp turn right.

If OWS continues to hold itself separate and above the political process, they're only going to succeed in frustrating themselves. If they lead enough people out of the political process (by convincing them -- a la Nader -- that the two parties are equally bad and nothing but immediate and total change is acceptable), they'll hand an easy victory to the Rethugs, who won't hesitate to use their power against them. You don't like police actions? Wait till the Rethugs are in charge.
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. Because billionaires are the teabaggers. Those people wearing teabags off their heads are
the teabaggers' pets.
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MedicalAdmin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
25. On the national level yes, but not on the local level.
Check out this excellent report on all things teabaggery by Harvard University sociologist Theda Skocpol. It isn't what I thought it was... and it's there are more places to make an impact than I previously thought.

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2011/11/15... /

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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. That is true
but the POWER is behind the Koch.

These local idiots are just used for photo-ops and spreading of the propaganda via "the media". They are but tools...albeit very effective tools because people believe the fairy tale grassroots, folksy shit that is spread by lies.

Money buys those lies.

BUT while the majority of Americans are watching the puppets...the real business is getting done in Washington by the puppetmasters.
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MedicalAdmin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-18-11 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #29
56. Very true.
But what I took away from that radio report was that there is a good possibility to be able to effect these folks that are involved on a local level. This, to me, is exciting. Most of these folks CAN be reached.

All politics is local. Or at least for now it still can be.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #25
35. They have the big corporations backing them. nm
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MedicalAdmin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-18-11 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #35
57. On the national level that is very true.
At the local level I wonder.

That is not to say that they aren't information deficient and likely kinda jerks, but it does mean that at least some of them are reachable.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 01:25 PM
Original message
The Tea Party didn't resuscitate the GOP. The Democrats did n/t
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Huey P. Long Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
51. How true. Well paid capitulators and enablers. Money knows no 'party'.
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
53. +1
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HopeHoops Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
2. I suspect their flatulence is more overbearing than any influence they have.
And that's just from what they have to say and what's on their signs.

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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
3. I love the smell of desperation in the morning..
Smells like victory.
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Harmony Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
4. I disagree
Tea Party has done more damage as it has splintered the Republicans which is why they will not support Romney. All the 2010 mid term gains are pretty much gone and it hasn't even been a year yet!

I do agree protesting and voting go hand in hand, as I am very pragmatic in my views. But voting is a short term solution, but protesting is a long term solution.



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AlinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #4
24. They took over PA. A teabagger governor and US senator plus the State House and Senate.
They are not doing any damage to themselves here, just to Pennsylvanians.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #24
34. Yes but it wasnt because of the pretend TeaBagger movement, it was because they had big
money behind them.
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stillwaiting Donating Member (591 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
5. Any influence the Tea Party has made on our nation has to do with the media
constantly both legitimizing their movement and catapulting their propaganda.

I find myself believing that TPTB simply wanted to provide a rationale and justification for swinging the Republican Party much further right (with the Democrats dutifully following behind) and so they created this movement, provided the theater, and thus then had the cover to do what they wanted to do with our nation's body politic.

It all seems so scripted and coordinated.
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Scuba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Bingo.
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newspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #8
18. if you listen to faux snooze tell it
it's like they're the biggest power on the hill. Let's face it, it's easier to be for something that promotes the status quo, deregulation for corporations and no taxes for the wealthy. It's not easy to promote something that aids the rest of the people.

That's why in congress it's easier to pass something that benefits any global corporation, than it is to pass a jobs bill for the people. You know, they do have their priorities. Unfortunately, it's not us and it doesn't appear to be for the well being of the nation.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. ...
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Azathoth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #5
16. Bull. The Tea Party has been successful because they organized politically
and took over the GOP primaries at a time when the political pendulum was swinging back toward the Republicans.

Guys like Joe Walsh didn't get elected because they were legitimized by the media. In fact, the whackjobs who nominated Joe Walsh in the primaries hate the MSM even more than most leftists.
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stillwaiting Donating Member (591 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #16
38. Rubbish. The Tea Party was organized top-down with massive amounts of money funded
Edited on Thu Nov-17-11 02:39 PM by stillwaiting
from right wing billionaires and right wing think tanks.

This money propagated the movement and kept it in the media's eye. The MSM most certainly did legitimize the movement and covered it ad infinitum (Fox News in particular, but the others did as well).

I'm not quite sure how the assumption that right wing wackjobs hating MSM outlets more than leftists has any influence on whether or not the MSM legitimized the movement. Right wing nutjobs do not tolerate ANY dissenting opinion. Fall in line or you're a traitor to the cause. There is to be no deviation, no thinking outside of carefully pre-constructed lines. Period. People that think like this could never provide an accurate assessment as to whether the MSM legitimized their movement. Most wouldn't even know since they stay cocooned within the Faux News bubble.

Saying that those who nominated Joe Walsh despise the MSM doesn't lend any weight to counter the fact that the MSM did report non-stop on the Tea Party for a very long period of time. And that coverage did legitimize the Tea Party to many "average" Americans who never would have heard much about the movement without that media attention. Also, Joe Walsh is basically worshiped on Faux News.

My opinion is that this was possibly purposefully done to provide the pretext and justification to forcefully wrench both parties and the nation to the right.

Just because some Tea Party members unseated some "establishment" Republicans does not mean that's not what TPTB intended. Clearly, the Koch Bros. and many other very wealthy people would not have funneled so much money in to their movement if they didn't support them. The Tea Party was not a grass roots movement, but a very calculated manipulation by those with A LOT of money. After the 2010 elections, the Republican Party jumped on board the Tea Party express, the Republican Party became much more extreme in their policy positions, and the Democratic Party adopts positions and acts like the Republican Party of the 1980's.

Mission accomplished by the 1% I'd say.

But we can agree to disagree. :-)
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Azathoth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #38
47. Whether the movement was top-down or bottom-up is irrelevant
Edited on Thu Nov-17-11 03:10 PM by Azathoth
They were an organized political force when the elections came round. That fact doesn't change regardless of who funded them and pulled their strings.

Saying that those who nominated Joe Walsh despise the MSM doesn't lend any weight to counter the fact that the MSM did report non-stop on the Tea Party for a very long period of time.


This doesn't make any sense. You claimed that media coverage legitimized the Tea Party, which in turn allowed guys like Walsh to be elected. But the people who initally voted for Walsh don't watch or trust the media. Hence they don't care whether the media portray him and his movement as legitimate or not.

And that coverage did legitimize the Tea Party to many "average" Americans who never would have heard much about the movement without that media attention.


You keep focusing on the media's eagerness to portray the Tea Party as legitimate grass-roots movement to the general public, but that had very little to do with the TP's ascendancy in politics. The 2010 election was a GOP sweep; Tea Party and non-TP Repub candidates alike got elected. The general public wasn't voting for the Tea Party. They were voting for change, which meant voting for the Republicans.

"Average" Americans don't vote in GOP primaries; GOP activists do. Average Americans vote either Republican or Democrat in a general election. Once a candidate holds a major party nomination, they are "legitimate" as far as average Americans are concerned, and the media would be irresponsible to portray them otherwise. By the time the general election came around, the legitimacy of the Tea Party was basically a non-issue because their candidates were running on the GOP line.

The Tea Party was not a grass roots movement, but a very calculated manipulation by those with A LOT of money. After the 2010 elections, the Republican Party jumped on board the Tea Party express, the Republican Party became much more extreme in their policy positions, and the Democratic Party adopts positions and acts like the Republican Party of the 1980's.


All true, but it still doesn't negate my original point. The Tea Party successfully grabbed power via the political process, and they did so by being an organized, focused political movement. They didn't get there by spending all their time camping out in the park.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #16
41. No they didn't...
Someone organized it all for them... they were just puppets. They had massive buses and huge BBQs on day one... there's no way a grassroots organization can do that on day one.

It wasn't a full swing... there were a lot of dirty tricks involved.
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Azathoth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. That's a distinction without a difference
Whether they organized themselves or whether Freedomworks and the Koch brothers did it for them is irrelevant. The fact is they were an organized political force with their own candidates, issues, demands, fundraising, organizing, etc.

If OWS wants to effect change, they are going to have to similarly participate in the political process.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #42
46. No, I guess I didn't make myself clear...
There are no real teabagger candidates... they are all Republicans... they all vote lockstep with Republicans... they walk, talk, and smell like Republicans.

I think you miss the point of OWS... it is their lack of leaders and lack of fancy buses, their lack of one singular message, that gives them power.

The RW is trying desperately to get them to do all those things... so they can squash them one item at a time.
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Azathoth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #46
50. I'd have to disagree with that
The T-baggers are definately Republicans, but they are an insurgent movement within the party. They definately aren't part of the establishment that has controlled the party in the past. They are the fruitloops whom the GOP has been using and exploiting for decades.

I think you miss the point of OWS... it is their lack of leaders and lack of fancy buses, their lack of one singular message, that gives them power.


No disrespect, but I think this is romanticized, wishful thinking. I'm prepared to eat my words after the next election, but sadly, I don't think I will have to.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. An insurgent movement would be grassroots...
this was bought and paid for and planned by the GOP.

I'll serve you up a little crow with your words when Dems take the lion's share.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #5
20. +1
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KT2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
6. There are many reasons
They are well funded and most importantly they run candidates that win in elections. They have removed incumbent Repubs and that scares them into doing their bidding. Also, many in this country have gone insane.
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libinnyandia Donating Member (526 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. One of the reasons so many of their candidates won in 2010
was they voted. The fewer the voters the better their election results. That's why the GOP is trying to suppress the vote. If people don't vote they will do it again and will control everything and we will look back on the W Bush years with nostalgia. Who knows what a 6-3 right wing court would do. The stakes are high in 2012.
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KT2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #10
39. Good point! n/t
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Zen Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
7. The teabaggers are pawns of billionaire Birchers.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
9. Their influence has been much greater than their numbers
because of a complicit media and nothing else. 100 Teabaggers at a gathering were reported in the MSM as 1,000, 10,000 were reported as hundreds of thousands. They were given favorable reporting in every instance. With OWS it is exactly the opposite.
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
12. They put their influence in the SAME system they said was corrupt?! Seriously, How did that help...
Edited on Thu Nov-17-11 01:37 PM by uponit7771
...other than to give the corrupt more authority?
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apnu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
13. The tea baggers are astroturf. They already had influence, the "movement" changed nothing.
But I do agree with the notion of translating protests into political action during election cycles, that's something OWS is failing to do. But, on the other hand, OWS reflects a deep dissatisfaction with the establishment in America's youth. This doesn't bode well for the party of old, wrinkled white men.
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Gold Metal Flake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
14. Bill Krystal has taken over pnwmom's DU account.
And he's wrong as usual.
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Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
15. The teabaggers have Fox News. OWS doesn't have anything remotely close b
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Rambis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
17. The pugs wore out the religious right so....
they had to find another group of outraged sheeple to spontaneously bubble up from the masses :sarcasm:
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
19. The "Tea Party" is a small group of old white people -
wholly co-opted and funded by the GOPers, and funneled into the existing GOP machine. The GOPers were aided and abetted by the MSM.

It is a fiction. A branding opportunity. Nothing more.

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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
21. Their numbers are actually the $$$ the Kochs spent financing them
As the Romney campaign wrote:

The Koch Brothers Are The Financial Engine Of The Tea Party

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...



Seems to me the Koch created/funded Tea Party is a strong example of what OWS is speaking out against rather than a model to emulate.


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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
22. right. and they got absolutely no help from the Koch brothers...
:eyes:
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tsuki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
23. I THINK THESE OCCUPIERS ARE THE BEST THING SINCE SLICED BREAD!
The have focused the world on the 1%, the sociopathic plunders, and their enablers, the political and media systems. If you think differently, get out there and tell them so.
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
26. Where do you get this crazed idea that protesting means not
voting? You are repeating right wing tripe.
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banned from Kos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
27. Ron Johnson, Pat Toomey, Mark Kirk, Marco Rubio is how they succeeded.
and cost us a top-notch Senator - Russ Feingold.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #27
37. Not much of a win...
those asshats won't be around long either.

But your concern is duly noted.
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sandyshoes17 Donating Member (100 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
28. They are a front group
They didn't persuade anyone. The repubs and corps wanted all these things, they just use them as an excuse. It's all a show, but I'm not entertained.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
30. They were created by the political system. OWS was not. It was created
as a result of the effects of the political system.
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caledesi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
31. "Wait till the Rethugs are in charge ."....they will never be!
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whatchamacallit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
32. They sure fooled you
Tea party "dominance" is a corporate stage production. OWS should continue to steer clear of the corrupting parasitical influence of both parties.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
33. Fox talking points. Shame on you. I noticed you dropped your turd and ran.
Trying to catch Fox and Friends?
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
36. WTF? Nonsense...
What utter nonsense and bovine excrement! Fertilizer!

They haven't succeeded, that's crazy talk. They are a front! They are phony! They are Pubbies of the same cloth and they have been used in an attempt to further the Pubbie agenda... and a few of them slipped in... but they are going to be pushed out just as quickly.

Bull fucking shit. The Pubbies will not be in charge for a very long time, if ever. You sound like fucking Rush Limbaugh.

But your concern is duly noted.
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county worker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
40. Bullshit they are an AstroTurf bunch of crazies being used by the 1%.
Don't even compare the teabaggers with OWS.
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Philosopher King Donating Member (269 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
43. I don't know if they have more influence than their numbers suggest,
or if they just pushed things in the same direction they were beginning to go anyway.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #43
49. They haven't done anything...
It's the Republican backers who ran the whole show who did things. These are rebranded Republicans, nothing more.
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
44. Them results of those elections 10 days ago knocked the Third Way on their corporatist tushies!
Edited on Thu Nov-17-11 02:58 PM by Zorra
:woohoo:
And the Chamber of Commerce, the Koch Brothers club, and the GOP got smacked down with that same swift kick to the curb.

They're horrified and scared, and scrambling to discredit OWS and get the nation back into the corporate matrix ASAP in every way possible.

Seems to me the that the Wisconsin delegation, and OWS, are doing a fine job of exposing the corporatists and their policies, and raising the awareness of voters as to who their real enemies are.
:applause: :bounce: :applause:
So, how'd those elections work out for you?

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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
45. The Teabaggers are just the Republican base rebranded
riled up and supported by the Koch Brothers then promoted by Fox News and the Murdoch media.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #45
48. Well said...
Hard to believe that ALL DUers don't know that very well by now.
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
54. Yet another one who doesn't get it.
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-17-11 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
55. In a stunning blow to the Tea Party movement,
a huge turnout in Mesa's conservative LD 18 overwhelmingly voted out Arizona's hardline State Senate President Russell Pearce in a historic recall election today.

As the self-proclaimed "Tea Party President," Pearce's national role as the figurehead for punitive immigration measures also turned the recall election into a referendum on the state's notorious SB 1070 "papers, please" immigration law, which Pearce had made the hallmark of his legislative career.

Considered the de facto governor of Arizona, the seemingly invincible and right-wing extremist Pearce became the first state Senate president in American history to be thrown out of office in a recall election. Led by an inspiring citizens movement, Pearce's downfall marks an extraordinary sea change in Arizona politics, especially in the areas of the changing electoral demographics and immigration reform policies. According to Parraz, the Citizens group registered more than 1,150 new voters in the district.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeff-biggers/breaking-ari...
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