So...if all the cops everywhere storm all the Occupy camps...then what?

[Ken Burch]

I hope there's a backup plan...because if OWS dies, hope pretty much dies.

We're fucked if it gets reduced to "it's enough that you get to vote" again, which will be all that remains if there isn't a backup plan. 2008 proved that, by itself, voting can't change a damn thing. Sorry, but that's the truth and we all know it now.

How do we avoid having the resistance crushed?

[EFerrari]

1. Every time the cops attack, the city spends a million dollars

and we get new recruits.

[Blue_In_AK]

13. That's a really good point.

People tend to come down on the side of the protesters whenever there's one of these skirmishes. Even up here when we occupied Wells Fargo and the mall cops over-reacted, shoppers were standing around on the tiers cheering us on. I really think the authorities are going to have to step back if they hope to retain any credibility at all.

[Ken Burch]

18. I hope it does grow.

Has a crackdown happened in Anchorage yet, Blue?

[Blue_In_AK]

21. No, it's been real peaceful so far.

The chief of police has spent time hanging out with the protesters, just talking about issues. He says he's not in the habit of arresting protesters and he doesn't see any reason to start now. Sullivan is keeping a low profile because next year is an election year. I think they've been negotiating to get a permanent set-up over at the Park Strip so that Town Square can be free for other uses. They wanted to charge a permit fee, but said maybe it could be worked off in community service -- which might not be a bad idea, since it would provide opportunities to interact and educate people.

When I've been down there on Saturdays, people have generally been supportive. It hasn't been a large group since it's gotten colder, but morale is good.

[EFerrari]

19. They have to switch to media manipulation because they're going

to bankrupt themselves with all these deployments. Nobody has the cash for them. Remember, austerity?

[Fire Walk With Me]

2. Imagine five times the number of current #Occupiers, marching in General Strikes...

[Downwinder]

3. Tactics will change.

You smash a boil and it just spreads out.

[Ken Burch]

4. Hopefully, that's what happens.

We can't afford to let ourselves be lowered into another version of the Seventies(or at least the media version of the Seventies).

[napoleon_in_rags]

12. I don't think a skin infection is a good metaphor for OWS.

And this is from somebody who just had one... No. Bad.

[Downwinder]

15. I stole the expression from a City Council meeting in Phoenix.

At that time they were chasing the homeless out and building the baseball stadium. The homeless ended up all over the valley.

[napoleon_in_rags]

23. Well, the gist of what you are saying is true.

Tonight very well may be the night when the movement starts to spread out. I'm with you on that truth! :)

[holdencaufield]

27. Maybe..

... if every OWS protester BIT another person -- it would go viral?

[Downwinder]

28. I don't think it requires physical contact.

[napoleon_in_rags]

31. You're straying into the realm of the pataphysical.

Authorities cited health threats when clearing Zuccotti park. Are you talking about in illness, or a metaphor?

[FirstLight]

5. i don;t know, but i am pissed

i am sick and want to cry and then get mad... they are fucking with people and they don;t know what could come next.

it could get uglier, this movement will go subversive and possibly end up having to get violent to counter the feds and cops... which sucks, cuz we tried to do it peacefully

[Ken Burch]

20. This will probably be the time Homeland Security sends in provocateurs

like the FBI did in Chicago.

(Ironic that this is happening the week "J.Edgar" just opened in theaters.)

[Fire Walk With Me]

6. GENERAL STRIKE!

This is OUR country! This is OUR country! This is OUR country!

[tama]

32. +1

[MisterP]

7. come back again and again and again: that's OWS's strength

just masses of present people

[holdencaufield]

8. If it's not about votes, what is it?

The Tea Party was able to turn their movement into enough votes to change the face of Congress -- despite a public disapproval rating of 50%

According to WSJ Poll, OWS only has a public disapproval rating of 40%. If OWS can't turn their protest into votes then it was a complete waste of time.

What do you expect to happen from the protests that would change anything? Revolution, insurrection, nation-wide general strike? That's not how things are done in the US. The ballot box is the only legitimate instrument of change in the US. If you can't win at the ballot box, you won't win.

[Ken Burch]

16. Actually, not.

Change in the U.S. has more often than not been forced from below.

The triumph of the Civil Rights Movement had almost nothing to do with electoral politics: It was based solely on forcing politicians who didn't give a damn about civil rights on their own(which, if we're going to be honest with ourselves, included Lyndon Johnson AND both Kennedys at the start of that administration)to do things they would never have done on their own.

It's worthless to have OWS just turn into a "re-elect Obama" rally-especially since Obama has proven that he will always take the side of Wall Street against the people when it really matters.

Other than a tiny handful of our party's candidates, like Dennis Kucinich, Barbara Lee and Alan Grayson(and the CBC and Progressive Caucuses in the House)none have earned the support of the OWS groups.

You just want these young people to give up and be cogs in the machine. If they followed your wishes, they would vanish and be forgotten. Nothing they stand for now would ever happen.

It's only resistance and organizing from below that changes this country.

And any Democrat mayor that let the cops clear out the OWS camps has FOREVER lost the right to ask any of us for support. All of those who are doing that have permanently joined the right. None can ever enact progressive policies again. You can't be "law and order" and still have a conscience.

[holdencaufield]

24. You're right (and wrong)

"...It was based solely on forcing politicians who didn't give a damn about civil rights on their own..."

How do you get a politician to give a darn about anything? You do it by making him believe that the people who VOTE for him (or against him) give a darn about it.

Abraham Lincoln didn't give a darn about the Negro (his words) -- he said so publicly many times -- he did care about preserving the Union and Federal power because the people who elected him cared about it and that eventually led to the destruction of Southern power and the ending slavery.

Politicians are workers too -- they are at the mercy of and will listen to the people who can get them fired. Be those people.

[Downwinder]

26. Dignity. n/t

[holdencaufield]

29. I'm not sure...

...how destroying a public park grants anyone dignity?

Perhaps this is another form of dignity that I'm not familiar with?

[Downwinder]

30. One of the Egyptian protesters told Al Jazeera they wanted

their dignity back.

[napoleon_in_rags]

9. Then it takes a new form.

This whole thing is feed by economic injustice that isn't going to go away. Really, this whole thing has just begun, mark my words.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. They arrrested a NYT reporter

they removed press credentials from an NBC anchor....

I suspect the media narrative will turn... call it a sneaky.

Oh and I must add... tactics will change.

But this is coordinated.

[akbacchus_BC]

11. Haven't you heard, most sites are being shut down. Here in Vancouver

the Mayor is still agreeing for the occupiers to have electricity and water but very soon, the tents will be gone as we have Mayoral elections on November 19

[Ken Burch]

17. And every mayor who is doing that has joined the right.

There's no difference between shutting down the camps and supporting the 1%.

It's bullshit to put the meaningless concept of "the law" before the right to free speech and human dignity.

The law hasn't ever served anyone but the rich, and the police only protect the rich. They've all proved that tonight.

[AntiFascist]

14. People can still assemble without pitching tents...

the power of being interconnected the way that we are gives us the ability to assemble on a moments notice. If all OWS protestors (who have cars) decided to drive 5 mph under the speed limit at a particular time (through New York especially --- around Wall Street?) imagine the statement that could make.

[Kennah]

22. Not that I wish ill on journalists ...

... but a few arrested journalists might go a long way towards helping the OWS movement.

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. So far one from NYT

and an anchor from CBS lost his credentials

[jeff47]

33. Then they set up more camps.

Cops close those down, they set up more camps.

Each time the cops crush a camp, there's more media coverage. OWS looks better and gets re-energized. The status quo looks worse and their coffers are drained.

Storming OWS camps is the best thing for OWS's goals.

[backscatter712]

34. General strike. n/t