Anyone unhappy about $42 a year is welcome to create a competitor to the DU!!,

[Logical]

And figure out a way to run it on less money!

That is a very simple solution!

[Cirque du So-What]

1. In other words, 'like it or lump it,' eh?

Cold comfort for those without the financial means or expertise to start their own board. Divisive claptrap.

[lumberjack_jeff]

26. DU is a business. You are a customer.

If the cost exceeds the perceived value to you, then don't buy the product.

This discussion is useful only to the extent that it gives the admins some market feedback.

[EFerrari]

72. I'd disagree with that. DU not only a business.

It's a community. And those boundaries are not as cut and dried as deciding whether to patronize a retail outlet. I suspect that is true for the admins as well.

[lumberjack_jeff]

77. They say the same about facebook, craigslist and myspace.

"community" is marketing. The fact that chicken of the sea is "dolphin safe tuna" doesn't make them any less a business.

The fact that your interests are aligned with theirs, and that theirs are complicated by the nonmonetary reward of doing something good doesn't change the fundamental relationship.

[EFerrari]

78. No, community is not always marketing. That the term is usurped

doesn't make real communities less real.

[REP]

86. Oh, honey. "Communities" are magical and servers run on love!

The people who run this site can just pay the bills and feed their families with all that "community" feeling.

[Tx4obama]

88. Without all the unpaid DUers that post here for free, there wouldn't be a DU.

I am not a 'customer'.
I am a 'donor' that voluntarily 'donates' money and MY TIME (OPs and comments) to the DU community.

If DU is only a product that it would fall into the same category as HuffPo - where folks give free 'content' to the website and the owners benefit from the 'unpaid workers'.

DU is not like a newspaper or magazine where the 'company' is publishing the content, we DUers are creating the 'content'.

[bluestate10]

29. Yes. Any other idea? nt

[Motown_Johnny]

75. or put up with the ads

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Obamanaut]

3. You might like this thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2302902

Have you considered that someone unhappy about the $42 might be unhappy because for them $42 is more than simply 'pocket change'?

[Fumesucker]

4. If you haven't been there it's really hard to put yourself mentally in that place..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoznjbKVnmw

[Obamanaut]

19. I did not suggest otherwise. Refer to the link in my response, it addresses smugness.

There are people for whom that $42 is an amount they don't have as 'discretionary', and I am aware of that. I have relatives like that. I've had periods when we were like that.

[trumad]

5. You didn't think this thread through...

tough times for a lot of people.

[Amaril]

6. No, it's not a "simple" solution

And you darn well know it. Goody for you that $42 a year isn't a big deal -- it isn't a big deal for me either (even though I just had to take a 40% pay cut to stay employed) -- but for a lot of people it is a HUGE deal.

I'm kinda cranky this morning, and, wow, did your snark just set my teeth on edge. :mad:

[elocs]

7. Empathy. For DUers who cannot understand how paying $42 is not a problem,

how it is no big deal, you might like to try a little empathy for those DUers who struggle to make ends meet, for whom a dollar, much less 42 dollars, has an impact. Every dollar counts.

Frankly I find it disgusting to read people here who have enough money take the attitude that paying $42 is no big deal since it is just pocket change to them.

Empathy.

[nebenaube]

8. cloning du would be trivial...

of course it might run like 4chan..

[MjolnirTime]

9. This site is about people, not HTML. Or money, for that matter.

[bluestate10]

32. It takes money to sustain websites. Are you the type that wants something for nothing? nt

[dionysus]

49. it's the admins livelihood.

[MjolnirTime]

81. all I meant was you can't just clone DU and have it be the same. It's more than webpages.

[dionysus]

82. i can see that.

[Codeine]

55. The people who are trying to make a living from the money

generated by the creation and full-time maintenance of the place might disagree.

[SidDithers]

10. Kick and fucking Rec!!...

:thumbsup:

Sid

[hlthe2b]

12. Another lacking all compassion and understanding, I see.

:eyes:

[bluestate10]

33. I give a hail second. nt

[hlthe2b]

11. Oh, STOP IT... I see many trying to offer solutions that would maintain opportunities...

for even the least economically viable, yet dedicated DUer to be able to continue full funded participation. I don't see those suggestions as criticizing the plan, but simply trying to make it better and to maintain the strong sense of community sans any "class" dichotomy.

You by contrast are looking to create division. I find that despicable.

[MiddleFingerMom]

13. Are you the 1%?

.
.
.
:rofl:
.
.
.

[bluestate10]

34. Coming up with $45 per year is not the fucking 1%. nt

[MiddleFingerMom]

43. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! n/t

[dionysus]

50. 16 cents a day.

:rofl:

[EFerrari]

76. But dismissing other people's concerns about money definitely is. nt

[chrisa]

14. Unrec

There are many who don't think it would be worth it to waste their money like that, or who can't afford it. Overall, a dumb thread.

[MineralMan]

15. Some people have tried that. Their sites have nothing like

the participation on DU. There's a reason for that. Visiting some of those other sites is a real eye-opener.

[NNN0LHI]

18. Yea, I have gotten some PMs inviting me to come join a few of them

I passed on those offers.

Don

[MineralMan]

21. DU is the only political forum I post on now.

That is because it is by far the most active forum for Democrats and progressives. It will continue to be the only political forum I post on. I've looked at other forums. Some are vacuous and stupid. Some are far too narrow in viewpoint to be of any use. DU is the only forum I know of that has a very wide readership and a broad enough spectrum of members to represent the entire left-of-center. So, here I am.

[bluestate10]

39. Before I came to DU, I tried finding a moderate website.

There was none to be found except one. That site was pathetic. Migrating it was difficult and the content was months old. That is the site that one gets when there is no funding. I am contributing to the last fund drive in a few seconds and look forward to the funding format change that was laid out a couple days ago. I am all for many of those crying to leave the site and see whether they can find anything better, I have found many to be weak on the progressive values they claim to have, or at least not willing to defend them to any noticeable extent.

[ecstatic]

16. My problem with it is that the site seems to be overrun by non-democrats

who claim to be progressive purists, yet they don't care about the Supreme Court or any of the repercussions of having a republican in the White House. Not going to pay that much to battle trolls, sorry.

[bluestate10]

46. I agree with you.

I have noticed that the people that claim to have the purist strain of progressivism and the very ones least willing to conduct sane, disciplined battles to bring those values to reality. They spend their time destroying democrats and not attempting to make one dent at republicans. I seriously question their claim of being progressives. This all comes from an avowed, moderate democrat. But at least I am fucking willing to fight for what I claim to believe in.

[Fumesucker]

47. The Democrats are destroying themselves, they don't need our help to do that..

ETA: If the Democrats were doing what they were elected to do there would be no need for OWS..

[Pab Sungenis]

17. It costs a lot of money to mend fences

which is why no one seems interested in doing so.

[SidDithers]

20. Childish post...nt

Sid

[dionysus]

22. uh huh.

[DevonRex]

35. Yay! It's a hijack!!!! Whoopee!!! Nt

[dionysus]

37. LAUNCH TEH CRUSIE MISSELS11!1!1 private school latte in my face!11!1

:hi:

[DevonRex]

42. I launched as soon as I realized I'd been transported to another topic.

At first I was like how the hell did I get here for fuck sake. And then I saw it as an opportunity to blast away. Good times!!

:hug:

[MineralMan]

51. I'm not sure what that means, frankly.

But it does cost a lot to run a large discussion forum website.

[dionysus]

84. oh, just calling out the mods and admins again is all.....

[MineralMan]

85. Well, I wouldn't know about that, really.

One post at a time.

[Codeine]

56. And here we gooooo. . . nt

[JNelson6563]

23. It has been tried.

One particular, somewhat gnarled off-shoot is much beloved by some who seem to rather hate DU. Then they come to DU and make lots of demands. It's kind of funny to watch sometimes, other times just boringly predictable.

Julie

[dionysus]

38. and they smell like wood chips....

[L0oniX]

24. Yea ...and if you don't like the USA you are welcome to leave it. Sounds like redneck repuke speak.

[bvar22]

25. Is that you, Herman?

"If you aren't rich,
Blame Yourself!!!"
--- Herman Cain, October 5, 2011



You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.
Solidarity99!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Coyote_Bandit]

27. Even simpler solution?

Just frickin leave.

At least that's what I read between the lines.

[bluestate10]

28. I completely agree. The fucking hand wringing that I am reading is disgusting.

And it is coming from some of the very same people that take the most recalcitrant views about creating a progressive society. I have a news flash for them. If they are not willing to make small sacrifices to drive push their dreams toward realization, they are not going to get one fucking iota of what they are looking for. Let them decamp to FireDog Lake, I am sick of dealing with posers that have no fight in them when a critical battle looms.

[SidDithers]

40. Memberships at FDL start at $45...

https://members.firedoglake.com/join/

:rofl:

Sid

[Rex]

30. It is still FREE! Wow, folks calm down!

All this faux-rage over a non-issue... :eyes:

[tuckessee]

31. Right on! People who can't afford it should be out working anyway.

Pull themselves up by their bootstraps and all that jazz.

signed
The Ghost of Ronald W Reagan

[lbrtbell]

36. "If you're poor, fuck you!"

That's what your subject should be, because that's essentially what you're saying.

[dionysus]

41. or, people could use DU for free, as they can now...

[bluestate10]

48. True. That has not changed.

And if the ones that smoke give up one pack per week, PRES-FUCKING-TO, the $5 membership is easy to handle.

[MineralMan]

52. Just a pack a month would do it, or a carton of the cheaper

generic smokes would pay for a whole year. Still, most people don't smoke, so giving them up isn't an option.

[Raine]

87. Yes, exactly! nt

[randome]

44. Stop being Logical.

[bluestate10]

45. I contributed to the fund drive and bought a monthly membership.

I hope everyone else does the same. If not, maybe you belong somewhere else. Maybe a land where lunch is free, with no questions asked.

[MineralMan]

53. That would be BigRockCandyMountain.com

I hear they have a lemonade tree on their home page.

[WI_DEM]

54. "If not, maybe you belong somewhere else" hmm lots of progressive compassion

in that statement. Some people can't afford even $42 per year. Yet, according to you, that apparently is too bad and they 'belong somewhere else.' Nice.

[wickerwoman]

79. Yes,

obviously the homeless and unemployed "belong somewhere else". They have nothing to contribute to a "progressive" board.

Glad you're doing well enough that $5 a month for a non-essential is a no-brainer. Hope you're never in a situation where you realise what a jag off you sound like when you tell other people about how easy it would be find the money.

[a simple pattern]

94. Ew.

Maybe you belong somewhere else, in a land where they say shit like that. WTF is even wrong with you?

[KamaAina]

57. There are already several spinoff sites out there

created by ex-DUers disgruntled about something or other.

None, however, has yet gained the kind of traction the original has.

[4moronyears]

58. Would you care to name these spinoff sites for those who are curious

My website is not a DU spinoff site, but rather a aggreator site, that's looking for contributors.

[KamaAina]

60. It's generally considered poor form to do so

one in particular is referred to here as "The Site That Shall Not Be Named"!

[4moronyears]

63. Well, if there are options, then it should be public information

Poor form or not, let the people make their decisions.

[EFerrari]

67. It is pubic information. You have The Google, I presume?

[SidDithers]

73. I was just about to tell you the names of these spinnoff sites...

but then I saw you've been served your granite.

Oh well, maybe next time you're here.

Sid

[woo me with science]

59. Interesting overlap in authorship between posts mocking people bothered by this,

and posts making light of the President's offering up Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid for budget negotiations.

[EFerrari]

61. Yep.

[Melinda]

62. Yep, seconded.

[a la izquierda]

64. Here here...

nauseating. Not surprising, though. Some of the memes from time to time sound like they've come straight out of the mouths of my teabagger relatives.

[Enthusiast]

65. I found that curious.

This is very odd. I don't have an explanation. I have always faithfully donated. But I do not like "those people" telling me I shouldn't object to the new system.

[EFerrari]

66. This discussion has brought out the inner authoritarian

in some portion of DU.

I have no opinion about this change yet. Skinner and EarlG outsmart me all the time, so I trust they've thought about this a decent amount of time and that it's well thought out. The only real problem I see is that it's easier for strapped folks like me to come up with 10 or 15 than it is to come up with the whole amount at one time. But maybe the admins have a fix for that, too.

The only repulsive thing here is bullies who pose as supporters of this community because DU isn't worth a $42 or $60 or $10 a year without the community.

This is a good thread to use to update my ignore list.

[Enthusiast]

70. I keep a list aside from an ignore list.

It's a list of DUers that I suspect of being right wing plants or just plain sociopaths. It is always the same ones that display that inner authoritarian streak.

[Fumesucker]

69. I've noticed that too..

[neverforget]

89. Amazing how that lack of empathy overlaps other issues

[fishwax]

68. True. They're also welcome to discuss the implications of the change to DU here on DU

As many have.

[Sherman A1]

71. Would you like a list?

I would think anyone that relies upon DU as an "exclusive anything" to be a bit silly, but that is my opinion.

I don't suspect I will be paying the $42.00 and I suspect I will not be very interested in the ads to which I will be subjected, so..............................

[Amaya]

74. honestly i don't give a shit

i haven't donated to the DU in years. this place is not what it use to be. there are many other free websites.
:toast:

[Name removed]

80. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[firehorse]

83. Someone once told me I "should be happy as I have all my limbs".

The OP reminded me of this ^ attitude.

I've lurked here for years, only post every now and then, so I personally don't care what happens, but I empathize with those who feel like lack their lack money will demote them into a "have not" status in this community. It's alienating.

[SomethingFishy]

90. Well, that's a nice way to alienate people.

For Democrats trying to get their people re-elected some here have a funny way of including people who may be of help.

[Response]

91. There are no competitors? Really?

I would find it odd that in all the blogosphere / message board world you can not find something similar that run on less money.

What are the criteria that you are using to compare sites?

[akbacchus_BC]

92. This kind of response will alienate the positive and intelligent

Duers. I cannot believe a Democrat could be so dismissive.

Yes, there is one website with a few DUers who, after they got the granite, tried to set up a website and it seems like a failure to me! It looks like the inmates have left and only the guards are on site, what a pitiful place!

In terms of progressive conversation, DU is the best. Let us not dismiss long time DUers just for a subscription!

Let us find solutions for DUers who cannot pay the $42.00 yearly or the lay-a-way plan for $60.00. Seems as though the less you pay, you get penalised! And do not forget, each paypal transaction cost us $1.00. I would prefer to make a lumpsum payment for 5 DUers apart from the $42.00 to maintain my subscription.

The owners of this site is making a bad judgement call for subscription only which leads me to ask, do our messages get deleted?

[SoDesuKa]

93. $42 Subscription Price Isn't "Underground" Anymore

Don't say this is eleven cents a day, say what it is - $42 a year. That's pricey for a web site subscription. If you can afford it, more power to you, but don't call this an "underground" site.