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Phila. doctor indicted for performing illegal abortions (nasty situation indeed)

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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 12:28 PM
Original message
Phila. doctor indicted for performing illegal abortions (nasty situation indeed)
THIS is the sort of crap that we pro-choice people are fighting against. I am glad they got this guy out of commission.

He isn't an OB/GYN, employs underage unqualified people, runs an unhygienic place. He needed to be stopped.


A Philadelphia doctor and nine others have been arrested and are facing charges for running a clinic that performed illegal late term abortions. The charges include nine murders and other related offenses.
(clip)
Williams says conditions at the clinic known as Women's Medical Society were so unsanitary, the grand jury visited wearing hazardous materials suits. His descriptions were graphic....(a bit more)


http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2011/01/19/philly-doct... /
I am aware that abortion is a hot-button topic, said Philadelphia District Attorney Seth Williams. But as district attorney, my job is to carry out the law. A doctor who knowingly and systematically mistreats female patients to the point that one of them dies in his so-called care, commits murder under the law. A doctor who cuts into the necks severing the spinal cords of living, breathing babies, who would survive with proper medical attention, is committing murder under the law.
(clip)
Four of the suspects, some improperly licensed, also face multiple counts of murder for allegedly killing the newborns. All of the suspects are now behind bars after warrants were served overnight.
(clip)
Gosnell, a family practioner, was never certified as an OB/GYN. He is accused of reusing unsanitary instruments and performing procedures in filthy rooms. Some of the rooms had litter boxes and animals present at the time of the operations, according to investigators.
Investigators also said Gosnell allowed unlicensed employees, including a 15-year-old high school student, to perform operations and administer anesthesia.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
1. Rec for being the first version I've seen that didn't call suspect an "abortion doctor"
:kick:
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I'd call him a back alley abortionist as, aside from md credentials, he was.
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ehrnst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #2
38. But illegal is illegal - and the conditions that his patients suffered
were very comparable to those reported by women that did have back alley abortions.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #38
46. Grand Jury Report. Beware. Graphic and appalling
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Bunny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
3. What is wrong with people?
Throw the book at him.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. This is a good example of why we need to keep the choice of a legal hygienic safe abortion legal.
THIS is the type of shit that will happen more and more if the choice goes away.
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Bunny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Yes indeed.
I can't help but wonder why he didn't just get the credentials he'd need to perform legal abortions. I don't think you need to be an OB-GYN, do you? :shrug:
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. I feel very sorry for the women for whom this was their only choice (more articles here..)
Edited on Wed Jan-19-11 12:47 PM by uppityperson
reading more...

They found this while investigating narc issue. So, women's health isn't worth checking out, but narcotics! omg!
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaking/114200224.ht...
Law enforcement officers discovered the abuses while investigating tips that the doctor had been illegally selling thousands of prescriptions for OxyContin and other narcotics.



http://thegazette.com/tag/womens-medical-society-clinic /
A clinic employee told investigators that Gosnell directed her in his absence to conduct gynecological examinations and administer painkillers to patients, the document states.


And the anti-choicers are off!
http://www.lifenews.com/2010/05/11/state-5086 /

Since the Gosnell case became public, other women who suffered horrific abortion experiences with Gosnell have come forward to tell their stories.

Operation Rescue president Troy Newman told LifeNews.com today that Gosnell is not the exception but the rule when it comes to problems at abortion facilities.



Racist asshole!
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/national/northeast/vie...
Some women came from across the mid-Atlantic for the illegal late-term abortions, authorities said. White women from the suburbs were ushered into a separate, slightly cleaner area because Gosnell believed they were more likely to file complaints, Williams said.

Few if any of the sedated women knew their babies were born alive and then killed, prosecutors said. Many were first-time mothers who were told they were 24 weeks pregnant, even if they were further along, authorities said.

Gosnell got his medical degree from Thomas Jefferson University in Philadelphia and is board certified in family practice. He started, but did not finish, a residency in obstetrics-gynecology, authorities said.

"He does not know how to do an abortion. Hes not board certified," Assistant District Attorney Joanne Pescatore said. "Once he got them there, he saw dollar signs and did abortions that other people wouldnt do."
"People knew near and far that if you needed a late-term abortion you could go see Dr. Gosnell," Williams said.

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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Which is it?
"Few if any of the sedated women knew their babies were born alive and then killed, prosecutors said. Many were first-time mothers who were told they were 24 weeks pregnant, even if they were further along, authorities said."

Or

"Once he got them there, he saw dollar signs and did abortions that other people wouldnt do." "People knew near and far that if you needed a late-term abortion you could go see Dr. Gosnell," Williams said."

Everything about this sucks. The article implies that most patients were referred by legitimate doctors who refused to treat.
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May Hamm Donating Member (244 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #7
19. Geez I hate prosecutors
"He does not know how to do an abortion. Hes not board certified," Assistant District Attorney Joanne Pescatore said.
.

First of all, Pennsylvania does not have a 'abortion doctor licensing board' or a OB-Gyn board or almost any other specialty board:

Mission Statement:
The State Board of Medicine regulates the practice of medicine through the licensure, registration and certification of members of the medical profession in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. The Board regulates medical doctors; physician assistants; radiology technicians; respiratory therapists; nurse-midwives; acupuncturists; practitioners of oriental medicine; perfusionists; behavioral specialists; and athletic trainers.
http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt/communit...

Prosecutors have this little lying problem. They can't merely state the facts, they have this terrible need to hype everything. Something the rest of us call 'compulsive lying.'

Secondly can they denigrate women any more? I do not believe this doctor performed late term abortions for decades and all those women were too stupid to count even if the prosecutors insist it's true. And even first time mothers know when their baby is alive and kicking. Almost no woman lives in a vacuum. They have friends, relatives, lovers, all of whom would are sure to point out "gosh that little feller is sure moving a lot, what are you, eight months or so?"
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Board Certification is not by state law but
the American Board of Medical Specialties.

http://www.abms.org/about_board_certification/means.asp...
Medical specialty certification in the United States is a voluntary process. While medical licensure sets the minimum competency requirements to diagnose and treat patients, it is not specialty specific. Board certificationand the Gold Stardemonstrate a physicians exceptional expertise in a particular specialty and/or subspecialty of medical practice.
The Gold Star signals a board certified physicians commitment and expertise in consistently achieving superior clinical outcomes in a responsive, patient-focused setting. Patients, physicians, healthcare providers, insurers and quality organizations look for the Gold Star as the best measure of a physicians knowledge, experience and skills to provide quality healthcare within a given specialty.

About the Certification Process.

Certification by an ABMS Member Board involves a rigorous process of testing and peer evaluation that is designed and administered by specialists in the specifi c area of medicine. Learn more about how a physician becomes board certified.

At one time, physicians were awarded certificates that were not time-limited and therefore did not have to be renewed. Later, a program of periodic recertification (every six to 10 years) was initiated to ensure physicians engaged in continuing education and examination to keep current in their specialty.

However, in 2006, ABMS 24 Member Boards adopted a new gold standard for re-certification with a continuous ABMS Maintenance of Certification (MOC) program for all specialties. MOC uses evidence-based guidelines and national standards and best practices in combination with customized continuing education so physicians demonstrate their leadership in the national movement for healthcare quality. MOC also requires proof of continuing education and experience in between testing for re-certification.



http://www.boardcertified.com/default.aspx?section=bcme...
Physicians can legally practice medicine by being licensed by the state or territory in which they intend to practice. Licensure is not specialty specific, and only sets the minimum requirements to diagnose and treat patients. As a result, physicians can claim to be qualified to practice a medical specialty without any demonstration to an independent certifying body that they in fact possess the qualifications they claim. The most reliable indication of a physicians qualification to practice a medical specialty is certification of the physicians qualifications by an independent and objective medical specialty board. Currently, the most widely recognized and accepted medical specialty certification is that granted by a Member Board of the American Board of Medical Specialties (ABMS).

While BoardCertified.com identifies a physicians specific area of medical specialty, this website is not intended to be a source for board certification verification. Each area of medical specialty maintains its own board which oversees physician credentialing within that particular area of medicine. Membership in medical associations and societies also exemplify a physicians elevated expertise in that given area.

To verify a particular physicians board certification credentials, association or society affiliations, we encourage you to contact the appropriate group directly. Please find contact information and direct website links to various medical boards, associations, and affiliations below:

OBSTETRICS & GYNECOLOGY:

American Board of Obstetrics & Gynecology
2915 Vine Street
Dallas, TX 75204
Telephone: 214-871-1619
Online: www.abog.org

American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists
409 12th St., S.W., PO Box 96920
Washington, DC 20090-6920
Telephone: 202-638-5577
Online: www.acog.org

American Gynecological & Obstetrical Society
409 12th Street, SW
Washington, DC 20024-2188
Telephone: 202-863-1648
Online: www.agosonline.org

Society for Reproductive Endocrinology and Infertility
Online: www.socrei.org


http://www.injuredworker.org/Library/Medical/Doctors_ (Non-IME)/Board_Certified.htm
What does "board certified" mean--is it different from being licensed?

Yes, it is different. Every physician must hold a license to practice medicine. Medical boards in U.S. states and other jurisdictions (such as Puerto Rico, Guam, US Virgin Islands, and so forth) issue licenses. These boards have legal authority to issue licenses, investigate and discipline practitioners, and regulate the practice of medicine within their state or territory.

In addition to licensing, some physicians may be board certified in their specialty. These boards are different from the state boards that issue licenses. Practitioners of a certain medical specialty can establish a specialty board or professional association. The specialty board or association determines appropriate qualifications (such as examinations, competency demonstrations, or training) which show an acceptable minimum level of knowledge and awards a certificate or certification to those practitioners who meet the qualifications. Every recognized medical specialty and many subspecialties have established boards to examine the qualifications of physicians practicing that specialty. Typically, physicians who have completed a period of training ("residency") in a particular specialty and who pass an examination given by the board of that specialty are then qualified to become "board certified."

Traditionally, when a physician says s/he is 'board certified', s/he is claiming to be certified by a specialty board recognized by the American Board of Medical Specialties. There may be other boards issuing similar certifications; requirements may be similar or different.


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May Hamm Donating Member (244 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. An extensive post doesn't change the facts

No "board certification" is required in Pennsylvania for a licensed physician to preform medical procedures. If Dr. Gosnell decided to call himself a plastic surgeon and perform liposuctions after watching a video he can legally do it.

But my main point was the absurdity of the DA when she declared "He doesn't even know how to do abortions. He's not board certified." That was an astonishingly stupid thing to say about a physician whom the DA claimed had been performing abortions for years.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. I don't see anyone saying PA has state board ceritification. From OP
"Gosnell, a family practioner, was never certified as an OB/GYN." from OP link.

Yes, there are state boards associated with many licensed professions, but Board Certification is by another board, as stated in previous post. I do not know of regs in PA, since am not in that part of the country, but I would advise looking for a certified Gynecologist if someone were seeking an abortion. Training and experience go hand in hand.

I agree, it was a stupid statement.

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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #25
45. Perhaps he knew how to improperly unsafely do abortions. But safely? No.
He was responsible for the death of Semika Shirelle Shaw in 2000, who died from a perforated uterus sustained during an abortion. Gosnell has been sued over 40 times for numerous botched abortions and other troubles.
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. $$$. Why spend $$ to get a license when you are going to violate the law anyways.
Think of him as the Walmart of abortions.
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May Hamm Donating Member (244 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #8
20. He had a medical license until last fall

I am not defending him!

I am refuting the lies of prosecutors.

He had a medical license until they revoked it last fall due to a DRUG investigation.
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ehrnst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. The abortions that he was performing were not legal - due to the late term nature of them.
The article stated that many of the women had been turned away from other physicians.

He was a rat that fed on desperate women, made desperate because of poverty, and lack of access to affordable early, timely abortions.
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Bunny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Late term abortions are not, in and of themselves, illegal.
Certain stipulations have to be met, but they are otherwise legal. I'll agree that he was a complete rat.
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ehrnst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 08:05 AM
Response to Reply #17
32. Yes, but getting a legal late term abortion usually requires a plane ticket.
Edited on Fri Jan-21-11 08:20 AM by ehrnst
And that was out of reach for this demographic.

Legal late term abortions are nearly impossible to get in PA.

"Pennsylvania's post-viability abortion restriction states that no abortion may be provided after the 23rd week of pregnancy unless the attending physician and another physician who has examined the woman concur in writing that the procedure is necessary to preserve the woman's life or to prevent a "substantial and irreversible impairment of a major bodily function." The physician must use the procedure most likely to result in fetal survival unless in the physician's good faith medical judgment that method poses a significantly greater risk of the woman's death or a "substantial and irreversible impairment of a major bodily function" of the woman than other available methods. A second physician must attend."

The fact that there was no other physician attending makes any late term procedure he did illegal.

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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. My hope that increased use of the abortion pill will make it more accessible to low income women.
So we won't have these horror stories of women being driven underground.
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ehrnst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. The abortion pill is only for early pregnancy (63 days) & it's more expensive.
Edited on Wed Jan-19-11 01:28 PM by ehrnst
These were poor women and they likely took a long time to raise the money, putting them past the legal abortion cutoff date - hence all the illegal late term procedures this guy did.

The issue is not just physical accessibility, it's financial.

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Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #4
28. ^ So TRUE ^
No matter what one's personal opinion is on late term or any abortions, I agree with Hillary C. who said abotions ought to be safe. legal and rare.

Some of us are old enough to have heard our mothers generations quietly whispered stories of abortions gone wrong and how they ended up in emergency ward with potentially fatal septic conditions.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #4
35. Precisely.
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thereismore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
6. The right and the left will agree: we can't have something like this! nt
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ehrnst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. But the right will say that legal abortion led these women to want abortions,
when they otherwise wouldn't.

They will say that this doctor went so long without being shut down because abortion is legal.

They will say that making abortion legal doesn't make it safe.

That's not what the left would say.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. That's an anti-gun or anti- anything argument and doesn't work. n/t
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ehrnst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #16
34. Ludicrous arguments work with these people. (nt)
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #13
27. Having a seat belt makes people want to speed.
I don't know why this doc went so long without being shut down as what he was doing was illegal in many ways.
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ehrnst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #27
33. That should be a focus of a separate investigation - why the complaints to the state about him
were ignored.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #33
40. Very much so. The War on drugs is so much more important than women's lives, esp women who are such
"sinners, such sluts, to murder their unborn children".

It is wrong and I'd like to know why the complaints were ignored.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
10. there are criminals in all walks of life
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ehrnst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
12. When legal abortions are out of reach for impoverished women, they get illegal abortions.
And I would like to know why the hell complaints against him were not acted on by the authorities.

I'm guessing that the victims weren't white or rich enough.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. Indeed. Did you read that he put white suburban women in a cleaner/nicer room
since they would be more likely to complain? And that he got caught when they were investigating him for narcotics misuse? Women don't count, but narcotics do.
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ehrnst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #18
37. Of course the war on drugs is more important than poor women's lives and health. (nt)
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Dorian Gray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
21. If all that is alleged
in the articles is true, they need to get this guy out of practicing. Unclean, illegal prescriptions, botched an abortiona nd killed the woman?
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LeftinOH Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
23. The (completely) illegal nature of this person's actions will undoubtedly be highlighted by
the anti-choice crowd, in which they will fail to see the horrible irony.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. It already is, I've already been called disgusting for being upset with this
asshole doctor. Or rather they are upset with my wishing for women to be able get safe abortions if they are going to get one rather than illegal back alley ones like this one.

Ironic indeed.
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
29. I hope he never sees the outside of a prison again.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
30. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-19-11 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
31. He's a psychopathic murderer.
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badtoworse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #31
39. He has been charged with the murder of babies that were born alive
It's sad that so many that have posted on this matter have ignored that.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. You miss a lot of what we are outraged about. Funny how you post that reply to
"He's a psychopathic murderer." He also murdered a woman. Did you notice that?
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badtoworse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. The murder of the woman is just as terrible and there wasn't enough discussion about that either
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. So what do you perceive we are upset about?
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ehrnst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 08:30 AM
Response to Original message
36. The antis are eating this up - they've been dreaming about this kind of thing
They're posting all the pornographic, lurid photos that they can on their websites describing this.

They're eating this up like the descriptions of sex with the devil during the Salem witch trials.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #36
44. I've seen it too, they are saying this is the norm, not the exception
that this is what we pro-choicers want rather than what we are fighting against.
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