This is just plain embarrassing..

[one_voice]

[no_hypocrisy]

1. U.S.: Nice choo-choo twain . . . .

[TK421]

41. lol!

:thumbsup: that sums it up nicely

[hootinholler]

111. They could have at least used a photo of the acela

Only in the DC-Boston corridor and not as fast as those others, but faster than the one posted.

[DissedByBush]

143. This is the backbone of German rail passenger service

I've ridden them. They're alright, but not the fastest or most comfortable.

But I've also ridden the ICE. That rocks.

[oldironside]

164. What you've got there...

... is a regional train rattling around on short journeys. It's not worth getting up to 200km/h when you have to stop every 100 yards. Anyone travelling inter city will use the ICE, which is, as you rightly say, a little piece of heaven.

And before you ask, I'm English and our trains are shit too. Oh, and the infrastructure is falling apart as well.

[DissedByBush]

165. Not anyone

ICE is Inter City Express. You still have the regular Inter City trains. I once took a trip where ICE covered most of the journey, but I had to switch to IC for the last leg since it wasn't serviced by the ICE lines.

[oldironside]

166. True, but my point is...

... that if you want to travel from Cologne to Hamburg or Leipzig to Munich, you will travel ICE. The major cities are linked and you're not normally too far from an ICE line. For example, travelling Regensburg to Hamburg I went by IC to Munich, then ICE for the buik of the journey.

[DissedByBush]

195. I've done a lot of ICE on the North/South lines

For one regular trip it went: car to train station (I lived where buses rarely ran), walk straight to the platform and hop on an ICE (no security!), get off four hours later on the other side of Germany, short bus trip to my destination. Repeat reverse order at end of day.

Medium-distance travel doesn't get any better than that.

[oldironside]

198. I was fortunate enough...

... to be sent from Cologne to Hamburg first class, at the German government's expense. Now, that was nice.

It just goes to show what a proerply funded state railway can be like.

[hootinholler]

173. Your trains may be shit, but you have them.

Into many little hamlets. When I lived near London I commuted by train (Outwood-Dorking) and it was great that I was able to do that almost entirely without a car.

The systems here are totally inadequate and never recovered from the Standard Oil - GM - ?? trust that pushed buses over rail.

[oldironside]

174. Okay. I'll give you that. n/t

[Liberal_in_LA]

121. lol

[in_cog_ni_to]

2. Yeah, but we start the most, most expensive and longest lasting WARS!

:grr: Our money is allocated for the MIC's important stuff. :grr:

[stuntcat]

56. yah! Everyone knows we have the greatest missiles!

:thumbsup:

[spooked911]

119. NUKES!!!

[MattSh]

153. And drones!

We've got the biggest, bestest drones around.

Quite a few in DC too!

[usrname]

90. You'd figure...

if we were to require the MIC to transition into something that's not wafare related, wouldn't infrastructure rebuilding be the most sensible thing? They'll still make the billions, except that what they're building is creating things as opposed to destroying things. Building a train is no different than building a tank in that you have to put parts together. Chrysler managed to revamp their automobile manufacturing plants into tank building plants all within six months soon after WWII started. How hard is it for Raytheon or General Dynamics to retool their manufacturing plants (even if they're long shuttered) to build trains, civilian planes, roads, bridges, railroad tracks, light rail tracks, urban railway systems, etc?

[harmonicon]

125. That misses the point.

Chrysler isn't making tanks anymore, are they?

Most "defense" firms couldn't start making useful things, because then they would have to deal with actual market forces. For most of what they build, the number needed is exactly 0 (as you point out, we have manufacturing facilities that can be very quickly converted to build military hardware should the need arise). The entire purpose is for them to make money building things which specifically are NOT used by the public. Occasionally we start wars to justify this spending and construction, as opposed to needing these things because we're in wars.

[bvar22]

178. No. We no longer have facilities that can quickly be converted.

They're all gone.
They have been packed up and shipped to China.
Only the crumbling shells remain.

More importantly, we no longer have the the ability to build the machines that build the machines.
The Tool & Die Industry in the US no longer exists on a scale that would do us any good.
We would have to rebuild the Tool & Die Industry in order to make the machines that make the machines,
before we could begin to convert the production facilities here in the USA.

In 1940, it was fairly simple to re-task those production lines.

[harmonicon]

185. It wouldn't be as simple now, that's for sure.

However, there still are plenty of automobile plants in the US. While the US isn't doing the tooling anymore, the machinery and skill are around to.... for the time being - not in a generation. I have a friend who was in tool & die, thinking that was one job that would never go overseas - he was wrong, of course, and now works as a small engine mechanic for much less money.

Regardless, your argument only expands upon my general point.

[Enthusiast]

158. That would be correct! N/T

[Sarah Ibarruri]

3. We have only ourselves to blame for this. While other countries were fixing their

countries and putting money into them, we handed the keys to Ronald Reagan and the Repukes, they allowed corporations and banks to steal, cheat, and redistribute our wealth to the top, rip off educational institutions, dismantle social programs, destroy unions, give away our money to the military-industrial complex and corporations, do away with pensions and replace them with bullshit 401Ks, etc. etc. etc. ad infinitum. And now here we are, no jobs, a crumbling infrastructure, poverty growing, seniors suffering, students without jobs, one mess of a country, and hocked to the gills to China.

What's really one sorry-ass thing is that even Democrats got on board with Ronald Shithead Reagan. Very sad.

[RKP5637]

12. But ain't we the best country in the world! We're #1 in everything at the bottom of the list! Except

for wealth disparity, kill power and Greed, there we're tops. Very very sad. The money, corruption and bribes need to come out of gov., but how that is going to happen is still unknown to me. I think we're in a whirlpool right to the bottom.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

22. Oh yeah! This country is simply rocking since the Repugnican Reaganist trend took over! nt

[RKP5637]

31. Yep, best times of our lives! Ain't it great! Memories, memories ... Trickle down

has brought such prosperity to all Americans.

And we can thank the great Ronald Reagan.

:puke: :puke: :puke:

I often wonder where we'll be in another decade of this ...

[Sarah Ibarruri]

34. Every time I think of Ronald Reagan, it makes me sick. nt

[RKP5637]

38. I had someone tell me recently what this country needs is another Ronald Reagan. I didn't

even respond. The level of propaganda and informational gap is so huge ... and the Ronald Reagan worshiping is really akin to a cult IMO. These peoples minds are cast in cement.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

43. I sincerely believe that Repukes are mentally ill people who function outwardly

but inside they're one f mess of psychoses.

[RKP5637]

45. It's the party that has allowed them to all unite, I've thought similar

many many times. ... functioning psychotics.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

46. Functioning psychotics, yep. nt

[chervilant]

156. hmm...

If you haven't already, you might want to read Richard Hofstadter on conservatism in the US (The Paranoid Style in American Politics and Other Essays, for example).

Whether motivated by insanity or fear, conservatives seem hell-bent on vilifying anyone who does not FULLY embrace their POV.

[SammyWinstonJack]

60. That was probably my teapublican neighbor. He will tell you that reagan was our greatest prez

:silly:

[dotymed]

172. Yesterday, I was behind an SUV driven by an Army guy

who appeared to be a poster guy for steroids. His bumper sticker read: "Liberalism is a mental disorder." I wanted to ask him if sociopathy was a preferable state. I figured that he probably would not have understood the question and might have even pulled a gun to "protect himself" from this retired Union carpenter. The military sure can brainwash recruits. I have noticed that usually after a decade or so of seeing how the military operates, these soldiers usually acquire the aforementioned "mental disorder."

I refer to myself as a progressive, not a liberal. To him, I assume there is no difference. The military is one of the highest paying careers for H.S. graduates. They often are paid much better than college grads. I wonder if they realize that the military is the largest Socialist program in America? I like Socialism too, but an armed force trained to kill indiscriminately would not top my list of priorities. On second thought, they are more Communistic than Socialist.

Many of my friends are veterans or active-duty. If most Americans were familiar with the theft and corruption within the military, they would not be too happy. Now that most of their services are now privatized, it is MUCH worse.

Personally, I prefer the draft, without wealthy deferments. The history of deferments for the wealthy in America is disgraceful. Back on topic:

Use our money for our country, we are quickly becoming a third world nation. I think we are already at 2nd world status.

[SammyWinstonJack]

59. Hey now, Obama says we are the ENVY OF THE WORLD!

:silly: The World must envy our kill power. :evilgrin:

[RKP5637]

65. Yep, we've become the "hit men" of the world. n/t

[awoke_in_2003]

113. No, the world's wealthy

envy our wealth distribution. If a civilized country had the wealth disparity we do, there would be hell to pay.

[Warpy]

28. We have conservatives who vote and liberals who don't vote to blame

for all of this. The wealthy didn't just hold wages down and strip mine working people. They also strip mined the government, starving our ability to keep up with the rest of the world. We're now a poor country where some of the richest people in the world live. Our rich people are the richest out there but don't kid yourselves, we've become a very poor country in the process.

There is no way to rebuild our manufacturing until and unless we rebuild our infrastructure and there is no way to do that without taxing all the obscene wealth away from the men who stole it.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

33. So well said.

"The wealthy didn't just hold wages down and strip mine working people. They also strip mined the government, starving our ability to keep up with the rest of the world. We're now a poor country where some of the richest people in the world live. Our rich people are the richest out there but don't kid yourselves, we've become a very poor country in the process.

There is no way to rebuild our manufacturing until and unless we rebuild our infrastructure and there is no way to do that without taxing all the obscene wealth away from the men who stole it."

You've summed it all up in so very few words, and so accurately.

[redqueen]

37. +1

[bvar22]

39. The Strip Mining of America's Working Class...

...has been going on for over 30 years.
During that time The Democrats have held the White House and Majorities in the House & Senate
for several long intervals.
The Class War has continued regardless of the Party in Power, and even accelerated under the control of the Democratic Party.

Find someone else to blame.

Obama's Army, Jan. 21, 2009

"Oh, What could have been."





You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.
Solidarity99!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Tansy_Gold]

50. Indeed. Indeed. And indeed again. n/t

[Plucketeer]

75. That's the truth! nt

[awoke_in_2003]

114. "The Class War has continued regardless of the Party in Power"

yep, the beatings will continue until morale improves.

[RKP5637]

40. +1000 +++ n/t

[Admiral Loinpresser]

53. I blame the national Democratic leadership!

Why blame the reptilian Republicans? They are going to keep doing what they do regardless. But as I type this Democrats in the White House and the Super Committee are involved in rear-guard negotiations to dismantle the New Deal. They are pathetic and immoral. I do not have a major party ballot choice to vote for my own economic or environmental interest. I live in Kansas, so I am acutely aware of the book "What's the matter with Kansas?" But that book is outdated. A relevant sequel would be entitled "What's the matter with America?"

[bvar22]

85. Agreed. Blaming the voters is a cop out and a waste of time.

It is the Primary Job of "LEADERSHIP" to motivate the troops.
If The Voters don't Turn Out,
it is a Failure of leadership and nothing else.

Blaming the Voters DOES allow the Party Leadership to avoid accepting responsibility,
but absolutely closes the door on Fixing the Problem.
Blaming The Voters ensures continuing FAILURE.
You CAN'T Fix the Voters,
but you CAN address shortcomings of leadership,
IF, and ONLY if, they are willing to accept responsibility for their failure.

The Generals are responsible for Failure on the Battlefield, not The Troops.
The same is true for Politics.

The Troops did their part in 2006 and 2008.




You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.
Solidarity99!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Admiral Loinpresser]

133. I thought the activism for Obama was pretty good.

It just turned out to be a bad bet. But public lethargy has been a major political problem for decades, I agree. I think the people are doing a much better effort of addressing the problems than the Dem Party. OWS is the best thing happening and I hope it starts mobilizing people politically. That already seems to be happening.

But I don't see the leadership of the Dems as anything but blameworthy and unacceptable.

[woo me with science]

182. +100000 nt

[provis99]

62. conservatives outnumber liberals more than 2 to 1.

and liberals turn out in higher percentages than conservatives do. So you fail on two fronts.

[Warpy]

70. Wrong, Slick

because when questions are asked on individual policies, most people answer on the liberal side of the equation even if they self identify as conservative.

You have made the same mistake they have, confusing a fashion statement with actual issue stances.

[Demoiselle]

96. You're talking about the power of relentless sloganeering, Warpy..

We've had a vast right wing conspiracy (Hilary was absolutely right) pouring money into the spreading of simple-minded lies (mostly memorable and meaningless phrases) for over thirty years now. It certainly doesn't help that our fearless Fourth Estate feels no obligation to present any facts to us in depth. And, of course, when we cut the feet out from under our teachers and educational process, we can't hope for a lot of well disciplined logic.
And then there's the Democratic party. Why do my beloved Dems spend all their energy apologizing for their humanity?
I still call myself a Liberal, by the way. I mean no offense to Progressives, but I'll be damned if I'll be driven away from the best description I can come up with for my politics just because a passel of thugs tried to turn it into a dirty word.

[Canuckistanian]

82. Well put!

:thumbsup:

[sabrina 1]

97. Liberals did vote, they drove out the Republicans

in 2008 with a huge mandate from the American people to end the policies the country had concluded were responsible for the mess it was in. But nothing changes, we are involved in more wars now than when Bush was president eg, wasting billions of dollars killing people every day.

It's the SYSTEM that has to go. As long as the system remains, politicians will do as they are told by those who fund their campaigns, from both parties.

[Warpy]

109. Unfortunately, too many didn't think 2010 was unimportant

or were so demoralized by Obama's centrism that they didn't bother and the teabag House is what we've got thanks to them.

I don't think they're going to make the same mistake next November.

[harmonicon]

128. taxing them to what end?

We'd be fine if we actually distributed the already collected tax dollars equitably. I'm not defending the US's absurdly low tax rates for the wealthy, but I do think focusing on that misses the point. We don't even have politicians pushing for things like single-payer healthcare, substantial public transportation, etc. Sure, we could collect more taxes, but it doesn't help if we just use the money to start more wars of aggression.

[freshwest]

150. +1,000

[go west young man]

117. Well put.

[onecent]

159. Wow Sarah...this is WELL SAID. Often I want something

to quote when someone starts "praising Reagan". I hope you don't mind if i use this for future debates...

[Daphnie]

4. re

Come to think about it, it is kinda embarrassing...

[Ship of Fools]

5. Even more tragic is the ad that was (is still?) on MSNBC ...

Shows a moving super-train, and the final blurb is: "China is evolving. Invest in China."

[sammytko]

16. yea, and that super train was involved in a horrible accidents weeks after it went on-line

Witnesses say they didn't even try to look for survivors. They brought in heavy equipment to cover everything up, even people trapped in the wreckage.

[Ship of Fools]

20. wow -- Heard the story, didn't know the connection. Thanks.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

73. Yet Japan has opereated its high-speed rail network since 1964 without

a single passenger fatality, so high-speed rail is not necessarily dangerous. (The most recent fatal accident that made world headlines was with a conventional commuter train.)

[City Lights]

6. The little engine that might.

It is embarrassing.

[deutsey]

7. I heard an interview once where the interviewee was commenting

on the difference between mass transit in Europe and in the US (he had traveled from Holland to New York, I think).

He said it was like going from the Jetsons to the Flintstones.

[cvoogt]

99. absolutely.

I do that trip sometimes. Night and day. Acela is nice, but not nearly enough. It is too much a patchwork of rail rather than a unified whole.

[Enrique]

8. American Exceptionalism

that last train is the best one, because it's the American one. It's the one closest to the 1950's, which were fantastic, and closest to the Founding Fathers :patriot: and also closest to Biblical times.

[RKP5637]

9. Go USA! Go USA! Go USA! #1 at the bottom of the list, makes us proud. n/t

[MuseRider]

10. In my entire long life

I never imagined something like this. We have come along way baby, a long way down from the top of the pack.

[reggie the dog]

23. I jumped ship, fuck the usa, it is toast

I live in France and i have to fight to protect what we have here but at least we have modern trains, great public transit in our cities and rural areas, a social welfare state of good quality, single payer national health insurance, and our right wing is to the left of obama.

[MuseRider]

36. Hang on to it

and fight as hard as you can to keep it. Just watch as we sink and know that this is what happens when you dumb down your population, shake shiny things at them to occupy their time and allow lying in your media and corruption to run rampant with the blessing of the government. It makes me laugh when people talk of Obama as if he was anywhere near what left used to be. Don't let your goalposts be moved by the right.

[reggie the dog]

51. i will fight the good fight,

i do lots of demonstrations here in france, am unionized and strike when called on to do so. i talk about politics, explain to people what happened in the usa and how to work against it happening here. if france gets fucked then i think i will learn to speak finnish or danish, i can live anywhere in the EU as i am now a french citizen too

[RKP5637]

44. I doubt in our remaining lifetimes we will see it return to what we once experienced. When

I was young all I saw was opportunity and a nation working together for the betterment of all. Yes, I know many were repressed, but also it seemed to me we were making progress technologically and sociologically to make a better world. Then, the bucket started leaking and now the bottom seems to be falling out.

I think it will take several generations to bring back America, and often I question if the capability still exists. Other countries aren't just walking past America, they are running past America. I think we're well beyond the tipping point anymore.

[MuseRider]

66. I agree,

the 50's were not spectacular for a lot of us and they were horrible for many but progress was slowly being made. I think that part of my impatience is that is should not be so hard to move people but damned if they are not stuck in this ideological cesspool of hate of anything that is new or different. Not that I am not ideologically stuck as well but that is a different post.

We saw an attempt to be the best we could be for a short period of time and big things were done. Now we see the backlash and it hurts to see those things being swept away for no good reason.

[femrap]

11. All I see in Ohio is

trains hauling nothing but coal.

[Politicalboi]

13. We had the first model here in Ca in 1959

http://davelandblog.blogspot.com/2011/08/monorail-mystery.html

But we dropped the ball again.

[RKP5637]

14. Now, we can't even see the ball let alone catch it to drop it ... n/t

[Politicalboi]

15. We saw the climate change coming

And did nothing about it in over 40 years. It's what we do.

[sammytko]

17. Link to story in Vanity Fair about the corruption and shortcuts that went into China's trains

http://www.vanityfair.com/business/features/2011/10/china-201110



The corruption allegations against Liu and Madame Ding and other high-level officials and supply-company bosses prompted some bureaucrats to suspect Liu may have allowed builders (as many as 100,000 were engaged to build our new line alone) to use cheap and substandard materials: hardening agents may have been omitted from concrete poured for the roadbed, meaning that over the years the rails may buckle, and the amount of fly ash used to harden concrete pillars may have been cut, meaning that some pillars could well crumble under the relentless pounding of the expresses

Nor did they, when, a scant three weeks after the inauguration of our train, an express from the very same Rainbow Bridge Station in Shanghai, en route to the southern city of Wenzhou, collided at full speed with another high-speed train that had stalled in a thunderstorm after an electrical failure, and fell a hundred feet off a viaduct. Thirty-nine died—two Americans among them—and more than 200 were injured. It was precisely the kind of prestige-ruining disaster that had been feared, and the reaction to it—when, true to form, the Chinese government began lying about what they soon called “the July 23 incident” (much as they term the 1989 Tiananmen Square massacre “the June 4 incident”), and tried to bury the wrecked train cars in giant pits beside the bridge—was predictably hostile.

[DainBramaged]

21. Corruption, shortcuts, counterfeiting and graft, yep great society

But we get cheap shit from them.


And a great story, very enjoyable and vivid.

[reggie the dog]

25. all the Chinese have done is to adopt the American business model

[DainBramaged]

35. This small paragraph deep in the article stands out

Hers is the largest station in Asia, with 60 platforms: it sees 250,000 passengers a day, is made of 80,000 tons of steel, is home to countless stores and restaurants and viewing galleries, and is powered by the biggest solar-panel array in creation.

[JDPriestly]

76. But our corruption and shortcuts have meant that we have no high-seed rail.

Got to keep gas consumption up you know even if it does kill us all.

[KurtNYC]

18. Amtrak Acela

We are truly behind and need to build new infrastructure but we have train newer than the picture that is used in the OP.

[one_voice]

24. I didn't know that...

thanks!

[stuntcat]

57. Yay!!

I've ridden those a bunch of times!

[elleng]

72. Right, and amazing that DUers don't know about it.

Lots of history can be told about American railroading.
Thanks

[Atman]

107. Acela not really hi-speed rail. Because of our infrastructure.

The northeast rail corridor runs through backyards, small towns, densely populated areas. As such, it was virtually impossible for Amtrack to gain the necessary easements and right of ways to build a true hi-speed rail system. One town would say yes, then the next town down the line would hold a referendum and vote no. So the Acela is more of a hybrid. Since it's forced to run on the existing traditional rails, it is severely limited in speed...tops out around 90mph. It achieves this on regular tracks through a pretty clever bit of engineering; the train actually tilts on its base as it rounds curves, otherwise the centrifugal force would cause people to slide out of their seats. It's cool, but it ain't no "hi-speed rail."

[Glimmer of Hope]

108. It is very cool but only shaves off 30 minutes from my trips from DC to NYC.

[A HERETIC I AM]

120. The Acela runs 150 MPH in Eastern CT and Western RI

It goes a hell of a lot faster than your assertion it "tops out around 90mph".

A big reason it does not run faster in other sections is the age of the overhead electric lines or "catenary", but these are being upgraded if I am not mistaken.

But yes, the Acela reaches a top speed of 150 MPH as it heads toward Providence. I've ridden it from DC to Providence and they announce that it has reached that speed over the loudspeaker.

Granted, it doesn't run 200 (but it can, from what I understand), but it is a shitload faster than 90.

[jeff47]

129. Acela only runs through one corridor.

Over freight rails so it has to run relatively slowly. If you added up all the curves, it does 11 complete revolutions while traveling it's relatively short route.

On the other hand, you can take 200mph+ high-speed rail between almost every major city in Western Europe.

We are waaaaay behind.

[KurtNYC]

170. There is only one short section in europe where trains exceed 200mph

it leads east from Paris toward the German border.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:High_Speed_Railroad_Map_Europe_2011.svg

The point of my post was that 6 pictures of trains are no substitute for data. Not every train in Europe look like the ones pictured, far from it.

[KamaAina]

191. Not freight rails. Amtrak owns the Northeast Corridor tracks.

Some of those sections right along the coast east of New Haven are hella curvy, though.

[piratefish08]

19. high speed rail and efficient solar energy are about 20 years away.

[awoke_in_2003]

115. we heard that 20 years ago. nt

[piratefish08]

161. you'll hear it again 20 years from now - that's the point.......

til they pull the last drop of oil from the planet.

[awoke_in_2003]

189. yep, totally agree. nt

[11 Bravo]

26. The Little Engine That Can't.

[barbtries]

27. you know, it really is.

we're going backward. sad.

[lumberjack_jeff]

29. Thomas isn't a useful engine at all.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-GZzPUnzNROM/TYV89a7JnlI/AAAAAAAADYE/AkpvtrvMoqI/s1600/Thin+controller+was+bad+tempered+with+the+messy+Thomas+the+tank+engine+the+blue+train+looking+sad.jpg

[mmonk]

30. Most Americans are unaware of the world outside their town

or local shopping mall. That is why they are so gullible to exploit.

[Enthusiast]

71. When we examine this media is it any wonder?

The media's primary function is keeping the American citizen in the dark and misinformed.

[LuckyLib]

77. Anesthetized by TeeVee. It produces the stoopid.

[Odin2005]

32. Car Culture is the worst thing to infect the US.

We are an anti-social culture made of atomized individuals encased in their cars and McMansions.

[RKP5637]

47. +1, n/t

[newspeak]

49. I thought part of our mass transit was broken up by the auto industry

what the US is good for is doing the bidding of any and all global corporations. All interest is geared to protecting them and wall street, over protecting the citizens or rebuilding the infrastructure. We're like an open bank to them, while providing the manpower to protect vested interests. They don't have funds to rebuild a nation, because of what gen. smedley butler called "the protection racket."

[Odin2005]

63. It's a bit more complicated than that.

Suburban sprawl simply made it easy to convince municipalities that city buses (made by the Auto companies, of course) were better than trolley lines.

[stuntcat]

58. +1

.

[KansDem]

42. I thought we were "exceptional?"

This doesn't look "exceptional."

[zeemike]

48. Has anyone noticed.

How trains kind of look like the people who own them?

[philly_bob]

52. And don't even mention our fizzled space program... (nt)

[DesertFlower]

54. amazing. nt

[HopeHoops]

55. The one from France looks like a centipede.

[Uncle Joe]

61. Yes but sometimes it pays to be slow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73JORMGEA3w

Thanks for the thread, one_voice.

[Catherine Vincent]

64. LOL n/t

[tropicanarose]

67. great post! Can't argue with the simple truth

[avaistheone1]

68. Honey,would you like treatment for that lump on your breast, or would you rather take a nice train

ride across the country?


It is much more concerning and embarassing that we have tens of thousands of people who will die in this country because they can not get medical treatment given they do not have health insurance.

And Obama's plan only covers half of them.

:KICK:






Single Payer Medicare for All

[one_voice]

80. I certainly agree with you...

about health care! I really wish we had single payer. :-(

[jeff47]

131. The other developed nations do both.

There's no reason we can't. Other than the selfishness of a good chunk of the electorate.

[Capitalocracy]

69. Argentina:

See, it's good to be better than someone.

[southernyankeebelle]

74. Love going on the trains. When I lived in europe it was the best way to travel.

[Initech]

78. I've been on Deutsch Bahn - the ICE trains are very nice.

But we can't build any here... Why not?

[gkhouston]

147. The ICE trains are awesome--loved the kiddie compartment. n/t

[LibDemAlways]

79. The Amazing Race tv show routinely visits countries the US considers

"third world," and, almost always, the transportation infrastructure is vastly superior to ours.

You are right. This is an embarrassment - and a disgrace.

[CoffeeCat]

81. That's socialized transportation!!!

Evil, evil--Marxist trains and socialized transportation!

I hear the wait time for a train/rail ticket in those countries is...like MONTHS!!!

Why do you hate America?

[slackmaster]

83. Our country is a whole lot bigger than most of those. We have this.

[Spike89]

91. Actually, no...Russia and China are bigger nt

[jeff47]

132. Plus, being bigger means we've got more resources to do this

The Netherlands may need to lay a lot less track, but they've also got a lot less resources to do it.

[Ron Green]

186. That's part of the problem, especially for trips shorter than about 300 miles.

Too much fuel, too much noise.

[a kennedy]

84. The truth hurts don't it.....

ugh.

[DirkGently]

86. Pathetic, isn't it? We're racing toward the Dark Ages.

[blkmusclmachine]

87. If the Teabaggers/GOP get their way (with aid-&-abet from fake "New DEM's"),

we'll be back to the horse and buggy within 15 years.

[Ricochet21]

88. What is this?

a pissing contest?

[Deep13]

89. Cars! ...

Cars, cars, cars, cars!!

CARS!



Um, train?

[Systematic Chaos]

155. OMG what the fuck crazy "highway" is that???

:wow:

[Deep13]

192. I really don'r know. I found it with a google search for "traffic jam." nt

[AtheistCrusader]

92. Disingenious.

Did you forget about our acela line?


Russia has 3 high speed rail lines to our 1. The rest of their trains are quite similar to ours.
China's high speed rail system has killed at least 40 people and hospitalized another 200 just this year.


At least compare apples to apples, please.

[one_voice]

100. Yes I did...I didn't know about it...

My apologies...it wasn't intentional.

I tried to edit the OP and add it, but it was too late.

[AtheistCrusader]

110. No worries.

In fairness, it's average speed is on the low end for high-speed trains as well.

Edit: and I apologize for calling it disingenious, since you forgot, and it was not intentionally deceptive.

[cyglet]

126. This.

FWIW high speed trains go only between some major cities (Paris/Brussels, London/Paris etc.). The regular trains (in EVERY) country look quite like Amtrak's in the OP.

They have some, but it's not from every city to every city.

[jeff47]

134. You're a couple decades behind

Here's the places where you can take France's TGV. I count 14 routes between 3 countries. And that's only one of Europe's high-speed rail options.

ETA: Yes, France is smaller than the US. But being smaller means they have less resources. Using 2010 GDP numbers, France's economy is 16.7% the size of the US economy.

[cyglet]

136. Yes, France has a lot of them

Other countries are hit or miss. I can't be a couple decades behind when I travel in Europe every year.

Thalys, TGV, Eurostar.

[jeff47]

137. Yet your previous post claimed only Pairs/London/Brussels.... (nt)

[cyglet]

138. I was just saying

they don't go from every major city to every major city (trust me, I would've liked one from Vienna to Amsterdam last time).

[jeff47]

140. Yes, but they've got more than 3 major cities on their high-speed rail, right?

And while their land area is smaller, their economies are a tiny fraction of the US economy. They don't have as far to go, but they also didn't have as much cash to build it.

[cyglet]

142. Yes, those I listed were examples

I used "etc" at the end...I never meant those were the only ones...

Also Fyra in the Netherlands....

[stevenleser]

154. TGV is also expensive. Its not something that a working class person can regularly afford

similar to the Acela here. It's a tool for wealthy people (or business people whose firm is paying) to get from place to place quickly on an occasional trip.

All over the world, the more regular trips are all on slower trains.

[jeff47]

167. Current pricing: Paris->Nice $66 on the TGV. (nt)

[stevenleser]

176. Exactly. $132 round trip. Even that is less than my recollection from 4 years ago, still high

The point I was trying to make is, a working class person cannot pay $66 10 times a week for a commute to and from work. It's not exactly a commuter service for working class people. Still, it is an important link in an overall strong rail mass transit system. I love travel by train. Last time in Europe, I did Geneva--->Milan--->Florence--->Rome by train and it was a great experience.

We need a TON more rail here in the US. A Ton's ton.

[stevenleser]

177. p.s., I am not seeing $66 when I plug in that trip into the Rail Europe Site.

http://www.raileurope.com/us/rail/point_to_point/triprequest.htm?itemId=-1&cobrand=public&fn=fsRequest&c=USD&rows=1&roundtrip=0&from0=Paris&to0=Nice&nA=1&nY=0&nC=0&nS=0

[jeff47]

196. Scroll down. (nt)

[jeff47]

197. TGVs aren't for commuting.

Neither are other long-haul rail options. Even absurdly wealthy do not use high speed rail for daily commutes.

[waddirum]

193. not quite

The regular trains in most of western europe are electrified, and don't belch diesel like Amtrak.

[Spike89]

93. The irony is we are a major player in high speed rail

It is an industry (much like nuclear power) where we lead in selling the technology to other countries, but can't/won't buy it for ourselves. In some ways, it is like being cobbler to the world while walking around with our feet wrapped in burlap.

[FailureToCommunicate]

94. But our trains don't NEED sleek lines because

in most populated areas they can't go "high speed" in the first place.

We do have Acela here in Northeast, but it only goes fast in a few stretches of track.

Freight is king on most rail east of the Mississippi: passenger trains pull aside and wait for them to go by.

Don't get me wrong, even if the train looks outdated, I prefer it for most trips.

[midnight]

95. Nice pic...

[Vinca]

98. A photo is worth a million words.

[onenote]

104. especially when you pick the photo carefully to mislead

For example, here is a picture of the train I took from DC to New York last week:

[harmonicon]

130. Mislead, my ass.

I live in a town of about 150,000 in England. From about 5am to midnight, I can take a train to the two closest large cities about every 30 minutes. Depending on where, trains to smaller local villages are sometimes more, sometimes less frequent. One stupid train line does not an infrastructure make. I can get from here to London in 3 hours, changing trains once or twice. In my hometown in the US, the most similar comparison I could make would be going to Chicago: there is one train a day, and it takes 5 hours (supposedly - last time I rode it, it took 7).

[AtheistCrusader]

181. Impressive.

Given that your country is about the size of my front lawn.

[harmonicon]

183. "my" country is the US, and it's a shit-hole.

I recommend crawling out and seeing what a first-world country is like.

[AtheistCrusader]

188. Try the Pacific Northwest.

It's pretty awesome. Even got a shiny new light rail.

[NYC_SKP]

135. Posting member didn't select a the train pics, the poster is out there on the net.

Seriously.

Wow.

[onenote]

144. I'm sorry. Where exactly did I say the poster picked the picture?

Seriously.

Wow.

[NYC_SKP]

169. Oh, gee, I never said you said that. Check what I wrote.

Elsewhere on the thread, however, there seems to be bashing of the picture selection in the big poster in the OP, which seems ever so unfortunate and misdirected, especially for such an important topic as improved modern rapid transit.

In fact I'm meeting this morning with an electric vehicle mfgr and this afternoon on matters related to the california high speed rail authority and launching of the altamont corridor rail project.

I have to prepare for my meetings now, so thanks for your reply and off I go.

Please hold good thoughts for our projects and for high speed rail and mass transit projects nationwide.

:donut:

[onecent]

160. Does this train go through mountains as does the one in Hong Kong?

at the speed of a bullet..thus called bullet train?

[mother earth]

101. Embarrassed on many counts...and yet nothing is done on jobs.

[Ilsa]

102. Your point is made. I do like trains, though, even the old ones! (You are correct, tho.) nt

[onethatcares]

103. let me tell ya how I feel

my wife and I drove to N. Carolina a month ago to visit our son and grandkids. It took 11 hours, and about $70.00 of gas to get there. We took the dog, Sallie, because she wanted to go. Along the way I was talking about how nice it would be to be able to get in or on a train in St. Petersburg FL, to Tampa to Jacksonville, to Savanah, and on to Raleigh where we could rent a vehicle for the last 40 miles or so. But no, our governor in his medicare fraud wisdom decided that high speed rail is so progressive it just can't happen here, and the state already owns the right of way.

I would have been willng to pay the same to avoid the Lawtey speed traps on 301 and the semi trucks on I75 and I95. but hey, who needs stuff like that when we could be killing the planet with fossil fuel pollution.

btw, while visiting Italy to see our other son, we took a train from northern Italy to Rome. sleeper car with 6 in it. we loved every minute of it.

[A HERETIC I AM]

124. You could always take the Auto Train.

But of course, you would have to drive back south from near DC to Raleigh.

http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?c=AM_Route_C&pagename=am%2FLayout&cid=1241245666320

[Gore1FL]

105. I worked 14.5 years for the railroad industry, so I have a few quibbles.

We have high speed rail in this country. The Acela, for example. That is not represented by the Amtrak Engine you posted.

Additionally, U.S. rail spans much longer distances and the track is primarily freight. It is not electrified rail. The speed restrictions are around 80ish on that rail.

In short, you are comparing apples to oranges--and we do have apples that compare well with the other apples.

That said, yes, we could really soup up some areas where high speed rail makes sense. It doesn't make sense everywhere and 80mph diesel electric is fine in those places.

[beac]

106. Wish I could rec this 1000 times.

Not only is the infrastructure antique, but you can hardly get from here to there on a train unless you live b/w DC and Boston. A drive that takes five hours from my home town to my mother's town take THIRTEEN HOURS on a train, NOT including the hour-and-a-half drive to the "nearest" train station. :mad:

Italy and the UK have great train service too! I've traveled all over both and never needed a car.

Yes, America is bigger and would require more tracks and cars and engines, but unless we get "on board", our love of the automobile is going to be the death of us.

[Gore1FL]

122. In fairness

Our rail system is designed for freight. From that standpoint, our rail system is unmatched in performance to anyone. In that department we kick ass. Passenger traffic is a bit of an afterthought. It was taken from the commercial railroads (in most cases thankfully). In many areas it is kept alive but with limited ridership.

High Speed Rail needs to be built in more areas than it has, but it isn't yet realistic to build it everywhere. I don't think we are going to see a "Super Chief" route anymore--at least with this generation of trains--it reaches a point where the expense far exceeds expected ridership. Additionally, as the distance increases, the time benefits for traveling by high speed rail over plane diminish and reverse.

I would argue the best start for it, is to eliminate the short hops made to air hubs. A Northeast corridor makes great sense. KC to STL to Chicago makes sense. SD to LA to SF makes sense. Obviously there are many more. Eventually the routes will add commuter traffic. (suddenly it is "convenient" to work in city an hour away by 200mph train.) When routes hook up or hub up with each other, that's great. (That will necessarily happen in Chicago, for example.) Even with that, we won't see anything truly transcontinental--at least not for a good while.

[liberal N proud]

112. Yep!

We are so far behind technologically, that we will never catch up if the obstructionist are ever stopped.

[seafan]

116. Here is one of the worst reasons we don't have high-speed rail.

http://media.miamiherald.com/smedia/2011/05/07/22/B82725523Z.1_20110507225533_000+GAI2M54M1.3-0.embedded.prod_affiliate.56.jpg

Gov. Rick Scott still being challenged on his rejection of high-speed rail. Politifact: He lied.

Floridians have been RickRailed.


That this criminal sits in our governor's office is a tragedy for Florida.

[chervilant]

163. hmm...

Wouldn't take much time in front of the make-up artist to make this guy Voldemort's twin...

[spooked911]

118. I posted this on FB a week ago and my conservative cousin

was bitching about how govt shouldn't put money into trains and AMTRAK wastes money, blah blah. Infuriating.

[sarcasmo]

123. USA! USA! USA!

Worst industrialized nation on the planet.

[snappyturtle]

127. K&R nt

[defendandprotect]

139. How many decades are we behind now -- but -- "Hey, we went to the moon" -- ROFL

[mwooldri]

141. Now if this was about the newest locomotives in service...

... then Britain would have *this* as an entry as its newest railway locomotive:

http://www1.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/New+Tornado+Steam+Train+Makes+First+Journey+RmlQ3yxpImWl.jpg

Don't let the image fool you now... the locomotive was completed and running in 2008.

Considering that the UK rail building industry as all but vanished, and nothing now in UK ownership, it does mean the Tornado really is the newest British owned and built railway locomotive.

However we do have these:



Sorry the piccy had to be spoiled by Boris...

Train built by Hitachi in the UK apparently.

Mark.

[lonestarnot]

145. Snort.

:rofl:

[krabigirl]

146. I agree. I've been hoping for this for years.

[alp227]

148. WHY are republicans not as outraged that Russia beats us in trains? Remember the space race?

Geez. And they say "well...the tax and spend DEMOCRATS are buh-buh-bankrupting this country and making us the disgrace of the world! derka DURRRR"

[HCE SuiGeneris]

149. K & R

[marlakay]

151. It fits the weirdos on the right have been fighting for

all to be like 1800's…no rights for women, no abortions, no gay rights, no rights for immigrants, no health care, no jobs, everyone close to poverty….

[truedelphi]

152. On the other hand, none of those countries can claim responsibility for this:

[onecent]

157. I was in Hong Kong for 3 days last August - rode the bullet train

I can tell you all where ALL the money is. That city reaked of MONEY...it was almost creepy/scarey and how poor it made me feel when i came back to America
and see giant malls empty and bare, strip malls empty because there are no businesses left there..and this is near Kansas City.

[mwb970]

162. Spain has high-speed trains too.

Best train ride I ever took. Amazing! Then I came home to our backwards land.

[NYC_SKP]

168. one_voice and others, I'm K-ing and R-ing and posting a higher resolutions pic for distribution cuz.

This is important, for all of us and for me personally as I'm trying hard to get the Altamont Corridor Rail project off the ground.









Thanks, K/R

[harun]

171. America....

http://youtu.be/IhnUgAaea4M

[LibDemAlways]

175. If high speed rail benefitted the 1% or was the exclusive

domain of the 1% you can bet we'd have bullet trains all over the place. Since it represents transportation for the masses, we don't and won't.

[LTX]

179. Of course, comparing US freight locomotives to German, Japanese, French,

British, Russian, or Chinese freight locomotives would produce a truly laughable photo-montage.

But freight-rail isn't very romantic. It's just that practical stuff in the background.

[Ron Green]

187. It's not always in the background

when your passenger train sits on a siding for half an hour waiting for a freight train to carry Chinese crap to Wal-Mart.

[bvar22]

180. Rebuild Our Antique Infrastructure

Rebuild Our Antique Infrastructure
Using ONLY parts Made in America!!!

It won't do us any good to BUY a High Speed Rail System from China.


Solidarity99!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[GreenTea]

184. Yep!

[snooper2]

190. Damn, that French train is butt ugly..

Just like French cars :P

Who teaches their designers?

[waddirum]

194. awsome video of HSR track construction in Illinois

http://youtu.be/T0hCRWj1Kq4