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Perhaps it's time to realize we're pulling on the wrong pant leg.

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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 08:21 PM
Original message
Perhaps it's time to realize we're pulling on the wrong pant leg.
In all my adult years, virtually since I've been paying any attention at all, I've watched our representatives say one thing and do another. We work for them, we give to them our passion, our time our money and our most precious vote. Once they are in office we organize call ins, petition drives, protests all the while we write emails, letters and continue to fight the good fight.

We ask them why we are betrayed and they answer in calm, calculated complicated missives. Made to tell us nothing and to keep us wanting and hopeful. We're told to honor the possible rather than the ideal, we're told they are doing all they can for us, we're told time and time again that our time is next year. The next election, the next battle.

What has it gotten us in the last 30 years? The last 40? Is America committing the very first sin of addiction by doing the same thing over and over again, yet expecting a different result? Has our culture truly be driven insane by this impossible choice between two sides of the same coin? At what point does it become an issue that as much as half of the eligible population chooses not to vote?

The scam for me has now come full circle. Bankers are killing us, yes poverty kills, and the people we elect, continue to look the other way. One man, Bernie Sanders, stands and tells the truth in what is called the Most Deliberative Body in the world and out of 100, 2 stand with him to speak some small version of the truth.

45,000 people a year are still dying because the people that own the politicians, also own us.

So, perhaps this rambling is just a way of asking questions. If not by our vote, which seems to prove the majority in this country matters little, how do we change things? How do we get our money back? How do we even consider ourselves a free Democracy when there is so clearly a ruling class, and the rest of us? Where does a peaceful revolution, a movement if you will, begin?

I am desperate for answers and there is none coming form our elected officials.

Am I advocating a third party, or not voting? No, not at all. I'm merely offering an opinion that voting is a mechanization designed to pacify the masses, and has shown to be nothing more over the last few decades.

So, I say perhaps it's time for civil disobedience. What's wrong with all of us spry painting "thieves" on the every BOA in our town. Is there some law against moving into the lobby of Goldman Sachs because you've been kicked out of your home? There probably is, but at least you'd get some press by getting arrested.

The thing is, the old way isn't working. It's broken. We need a new way.

Howard Zinn said this in 1970, and it's still true today-

And our topic is topsy-turvy: civil disobedience. As soon as you say the topic is civil disobedience, you are saying our problem is civil disobedience. That is not our problem.... Our problem is civil obedience. Our problem is the numbers of people all over the world who have obeyed the dictates of the leaders of their government and have gone to war, and millions have been killed because of this obedience. And our problem is that scene in All Quiet on the Western Front where the schoolboys march off dutifully in a line to war. Our problem is that people are obedient all over the world, in the face of poverty and starvation and stupidity, and war and cruelty. Our problem is that people are obedient while the jails are full of petty thieves, and all the while the grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem. We recognize this for Nazi Germany. We know that the problem there was obedience, that the people obeyed Hitler. People obeyed; that was wrong. They should have challenged, and they should have resisted; and if we were only there, we would have showed them. Even in Stalin's Russia we can understand that; people are obedient, all these herdlike people.
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/CivilObedience_Z...

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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. Well said.
K&R
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Angry Dragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
2. The ones that have power just hate to give up any power
The people that have this attitude are just weak individuals. They lack any inner soul, they lack heart, they lack as people.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
3. Moving up fast, Rocky.
It went from 5 to 9 recs (including mine) while I was reading it.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 08:33 PM
Response to Original message
4. Fraid so. K & R for
linking to Thirdworldtraveler.
linking to Zinn.
creating the visual of homesteading the Goldman Sachs lobby.
:)
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
5. We keep looking for a President who is going to fix everything.
And it isn't going to happen. There is no such person. The job is too big, too impossible, thwarted by too many outside powers and influences. And so we wait another two years, or another four and keep thinking if we could just find the right man or woman, everything would be all right, but it never will be.
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
6. k&r
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
7. K&R
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RegieRocker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
8. K & R
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
9. even that one man eventually moved out of the way
Edited on Sat Dec-11-10 09:23 PM by bigtree
I understand the frustration with politicians and with the political system. The heart of the problem is that there are competing interests and motivations in our political system which can effectively derail any well-meaning legislator we manage to elect and stifle their campaign of reform.

Our political system operates by building coalitions. It's not realistic to expect every legislator to get their own perfect way. In order to advance legislation they need to organize a sufficient amount of votes. That's going to be the bottom-line, sticking-point of almost every bill that manages to come to the President's desk for signature. To expect otherwise is to ignore the myriads of competing interests and motivations in our national legislature which come from many diverse communities around the country with many disparate perspectives and needs.

Our democracy provides an arena for our legislators to either argue or compromise. There is very little room for individual legislators to dictate. The very idea of government is to reconcile these different points of view and the different motivations into action or law. The very idea of our government of the people is an appeal to compromise.

I see what you're getting at, though. You want to agitate from the outside to affect the decisions made by the folks we send there. That's as it should be. Nothing good occurs in a vacuum of indifference and power doesn't move off of the dominion it assumes willingly.

Two notions I have about that agitation. For any movement to succeed it must have a legislative goal and it must have a means to achieve that legislative goal if it intends to transform its agitation into action.

That means that there really isn't any shortcut or magic formula for progressive change which can bypass building coalitions, organizing, advocating, recruiting, and voting. It's not as if there isn't that desire and will, it's just not as easy or assured as it might sound. Nothing in our political system is assured. Vigilance is the key to success. Remaining engaged and involved in each and every instigation of our democracy.

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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
10. Flash mobs, grafitti jamborees, sit ins
the works; target GOP
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
11. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Desertrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Your last 4 paragraphs are exactly right.....
"By regarding society from a class perspective, one can see through the machinations of the rich. Marx explained that "in any epoch, the ideas of the ruling class are the ruling ideas..." The ruling class insists on control. Hence it demands unchallenged domination of the political system. It acts to mold all social institutions -- including schools, media, & political parties -- to serve its own interests. Any group that might oppose it (such as militant labor unions, leftist intellectuals, antiwar types, consumer & environmental advocates, etc) it tries to marginalize, coopt or destroy.

The political system that best serves the interests of the rich is the one that A) obediently does their bidding, while B) posing theatrically as a "democracy," in a convincing enough way so that most people don't catch on that they're simply being played. Objective "B" serves to greatly reduce resistance.

The illusion of "choice" and "free elections" is very important to the ruling class. They recognize that this pretty illusion makes their job much easier, so they want to preserve it. The rituals of campaigns & elections function to con most of the population into believing that "they're free." Most people will never clearly recognize that the choice they're being offered is a highly contrived one. They're being forced to choose between 2 parties which are united against them, rigged to serve the interests of their oppressors.
"


:hi:Welcome to DU
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Cherchez la Femme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #12
29. That sounds like a very interesting
Edited on Sun Dec-12-10 06:04 PM by Cherchez la Femme
and perceptive post -- can you please PM me as to why it was deleted? Thanks! :hi:


on edit: Whoops! Looks like s/he got a special DU delivery!!!
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #12
30. Thanks ....
Edited on Sun Dec-12-10 07:12 PM by defendandprotect
Don't know what preceded those paragraphs, but what's left is very interesting!

:)


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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. Welcome to DU.
And I welcome the opportunity to discuss, and learn more from you.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #15
26. I wish I could - he was deleted before I got here.
Could you give the gist of what he was saying?
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Post #25 sums it up.
I really don't understand why he was deleted. Surprising.
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
13. K&R n.t
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OneGrassRoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-11-10 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
14. K&R n/t
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 07:43 AM
Response to Original message
16. You said it better than I
Thank you.
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snot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
17. Well said. If even 10% of air passengers refused to submit to either screenings or pat-downs,
that whole approach would have been abandoned within a few days.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #17
31. Agree -- and shocking that so many parents are permitting it -- !!
and all because of the laughable "underwear" bomber --

which moved Chertoff's scanning company into a contract with the government?

Chertoff's company was going no where for 6 years, despite heavy lobbying of

Congress --

.... until the mysterious underwear bomber -- which by any measure looked highly

suspicious.

And the contracts for Chertoff were paid for out of the stimulus!!

Ah, how conveniently these things work out!!


:evilgrin:"
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DirkGently Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
18. Well said. Blame the "war on terror" for squelching dissent. Protestors = "enemy combatants."
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #18
32. True ... and all of this hides behind war ... that's how they get so much done!!
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MissDeeds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
19. K&R
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caseymoz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
20. I agree with you. nt
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Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
21. Spray paint "thieves" on every BOA...
and "Terrorists Run Rampant" headlines will be broadcast so fast, it'll make your head spin. On ALL corporate media, not just Faux Noise.

I'm hardly suggesting we do nothing...yes, something has to be done. I'm just pointing out what we're up against.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. I don't know.
That kind of thinking can lead to spiritual paralysis.
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Plucketeer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. HOW DID....
Michael Moore get away with stringing "CRIME SCENE" tape around the towers of Wall Street???
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Well, it probably helped having a film crew with him. nt
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pansypoo53219 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
22. the corporate media and campaign BRIBES
we have to cut the cord between corporate bribes and the democrat party. andwe must manage the gnews better. keep it simple and pithy for teevee.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #22
33. Agree ... and a funny thing happened before this last election ....
Pelosi came out a little while before and made an attempt at suggesting

the Repugs had "poo on their shoe" ..... alluding to their taking corporate money!!


Now, of course, this was nuts because the Dems have also been taking corporate money --

and even sillier given "poo on their shoe" -- !!

But this slight and late attempt was there somewhere trying to surface --


Election result -- $4 billion -- the most expensive Election Day yet -- and

Demcorats got $1 for ever $7 the Repugs got from corporations!!

So --- it would seem rather obivous that they should have figured out long ago that

they had to control corporate money and do something about it --

Now with the SC in it up to their eyeballs, it may be too late for a long time.

Thom Hartmann has an interesting group -- Free Speech TV -- fighting for a Constitutional

Amendment to BAN corporate personhood -- !! Not fighting the SC -- just permanently making

clear people are only as outlined by the Constutiton -- not corporations.

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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-12-10 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
23. K&R
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