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GENERAL STRIKE!!! This is what the Occupy movement was born for!

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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 01:25 AM
Original message
GENERAL STRIKE!!! This is what the Occupy movement was born for!
Excuse me for being pumped up upon hearing that #occupyoakland voted for a general strike on November 2nd. There are also rumors that the Occupy movement as a whole is talking about a nationwide general strike next May.

A general strike is exactly what the people need to be doing to wrest control of our government and our future back from the banksters and corporatists. It's one thing to make noise in the street, but mere noise can be ignored. If we want to exercise real power. Real political power. Real people power... THEN WE MUST FUCK WITH THEIR MONEY.

That means it's time to strike. Shut down the highways. Shut down the ports. Shut down the rail lines. Shut down the airports. Grind the economy to a halt. And make the Gordon Gekkos bleed green until they give us unconditional surrender.

You want to win this war? You've got to strike. Build support for a strike.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 01:27 AM
Response to Original message
1. Building building building!
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #1
85. Building? You may want to try a few public opinion polls first...
Just see how much "building" support there's be for a general strike that will keep people from their jobs, keep kids from their schools, keep the sick and injured from the hospital.

While with, I'm sure, the very best of intentions, I think in their over-exuberance for action and activism, the supporters of such a strike are grossly and foolishly overestimating the level of widespread public solidarity.

I could be wrong. Some opinion polls may indicate if this will bring about the desired groundswell of support, or if this will go down in ignominious, crushing defeat.
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Fuddnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #85
143. Heaven forbid we be inconvenienced or sacrifice for our survival.
Some politicians will drop by during a break in Dancing With The Stars and save us.

It ain't going to be easy, and it ain't going to be cheap.
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UnrepentantLiberal Donating Member (747 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #85
202. Good thing you weren't around in 1776.
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #202
220. No, you're right.
Edited on Thu Oct-27-11 11:26 PM by Common Sense Party
Piss off 80% of the country. That IS a brilliant idea. I just wasn't looking at it from the right frame of reference.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #220
223. Think the public learned something from Reagan and PATCO --- ????
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #202
222. +1000%
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
218. I CAN'T WAIT!
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MedleyMisty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 01:30 AM
Response to Original message
2. Map of Twitter trends for general strike
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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 01:33 AM
Response to Original message
3. Or to quote Mario Savio...
There's a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odiousmakes you so sick at heartthat you can't take part. You can't even passively take part. And you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop. And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all."


Sproul Hall Steps, December 2, 1964
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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #3
25. He was my inspiration throughout the sixties..
IMO He started it all.. the first sit in at a major University....
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #3
57. I love that quote.
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Mnemosyne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #3
192. K&R! n/t
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #3
227. Meanwhile, can we have some 99% buttons -- so we can all begin wearing them and showing support?
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UnrepentantLiberal Donating Member (747 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #3
231. Right on.
That's where I'm at.
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 01:35 AM
Response to Original message
4. Hey, I'm supposed to be flying home from Korea that day, but go for it!
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JustAnotherGen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #4
15. I'm supposed to be leaving
For Italy on the 3rd . . . Fiance's father is very very sick. If this happens, I might not ever get a chance to meet him.

But since he's an old Socialist - he'd probably say go USA workers! :-)
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European Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 01:41 AM
Response to Original message
5. K&R--and to the top of the heap ASAP.
This is what we all have been waiting for!
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 02:47 AM
Response to Original message
6. Seems like we're heading toward consensus on this, but IMO
Edited on Thu Oct-27-11 02:51 AM by Zorra
a much later date will be more effective because we need time to accumulate a great deal more support.
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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. The supposed theory is that it's Nov. 2 for Oakland...
Then next May for the entire country!
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #10
115. We need to make sure we have enough support to make it work.
Don't want the fuse to fizzle out before it reaches the powder.

Totally hope Oakland is successful.

For a national and possible worldwide strike, May could be enough time to pull it together to make it work. Disseminating OWS info to everyone we know that isn't a downright fascist tool is important. We spread the message everwhere in every way. People we spread the message to in our personal relationships start talking about it.

We absolutely must undermine the media blackout in every way we possibly can.

Support then grows exponentially, snowballing until we are unstoppable through numbers and timing. Critical mass is crucial.

Timing is also crucial and there must be early strong consensus about when to take action.

The PTB would love to see a poorly timed general strike. They might even try to instigate one.

At any rate, I will participate in solidarity in any possibly effective general strike, boycott, etc. at anytime, just in case.
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MoonRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #115
168. NO MORE KEEPING THE POWDER DRY!
How has that worked for us over the last 10+ nightmare years???? :banghead:
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white_wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #168
179. Zorra isn't saying never do anything, she is saying pick your battles.
We should fight back however we can. However, a general strike is one of the best weapons workers have, however it is also very hard to get enough people coordinated and willing to take the risk. If you strike too early without enough people you could end doing nothing more than hurting your own moral.
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 03:17 AM
Response to Reply #179
232. Exactly. Ferris Bueller's Day Off won't be an effective course of action.
A national general strike will require the participation of millions of people in order to have any significant impact on the system.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #6
225. Should start with brief strikes/walk outs -- late afternoon walk out --
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 02:57 AM
Response to Original message
7. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 04:55 AM
Response to Original message
8. recommend
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 05:46 AM
Response to Original message
9. k&r for a general strike.
It's the best way to get action from the 1% and their puppets. Hit them where it hurts--in their wallets.

-Laelth
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white_wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
11. If they pull off a nation wide strike that would be huge.
I don't think there has been a nationwide strike in the history of the U.S. Even if it only lasted for 24 hours it would help show people that they aren't powerless, that the rich don't hold all the cards, it would also likely be great for moral for a people that have been attacked for so long to stand up and say "we have rights!" As to Oakland, that could have a lot of short term benefits for Oakland. If I were there perhaps they could issue some demands to the local government and businesses. Maybe better pay or hours, I don't really know what they need and maybe that isn't the route to go, but it's just a suggestion.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #11
198. A Global strike would be even better. Which I hope is what
happens. It will be inconvenient, but so is giving up the right to a National Health Care system, which costs tens of thousands of lives each year. So is wages so low people cannot live on them, all over the world. So is people losing their jobs and their homes due to corruption and greed.

I think the time has come when a majority of the people will be participating and are willing to be inconvenienced, worldwide.

Maybe to get ready for it and not be too inconvenienced, we should do what Greece has begun to do. They are starting a Barter system to offset the effects of the cruel cuts enforced by the World Bank and the IMF and the EU.

'The people united can never be defeated'.
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white_wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #198
216. A comrade once described Greece as the Vanguard of the world.
They are certainly showing us how to fight back, though I have heard that on the 20th the KKE did something to really anger the Left, but I can't seem to find out exactly what they did.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #198
226. kr --
Plus perhaps we could all start wearing some 99% buttons -- to begin to signal

how many of us are with the movement -- how many understand we are the 99%?????????????
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #226
229. Good idea. It's amazing really how many people have heard of
the movement. Considering the lack of media coverage. Guess they're not that relevant anymore. In fact, I think it was a good thing they stayed away which they are now probably regretting. It gave the movement a chance to define itself without their efforts to discredit it before it even began. I guess they overestimated their own importance, and underestimated the organizers' anticipation of their either lack of coverage or biased coverage.

But who needs them now? Over 80% of the people are aware of them without any help from the MSM.
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Puzzledtraveller Donating Member (158 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
12. and how would that work?
Honest question. How do you get an impact majority to strike on a scale as to cause major economic disruption?
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #12
19. (self-delete)
Edited on Thu Oct-27-11 10:01 AM by ClassWarrior
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itsallhappening Donating Member (578 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
13. Followed by a general firing, and hiring people who want/need jobs.
Edited on Thu Oct-27-11 09:56 AM by itsallhappening
Employers will know the date of the strike.

They can start advertising in advance and tell people if they show up that day, they're hired.

Easy.
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Modern_Matthew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. Then we picket and make them run us over to get to work. nt
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itsallhappening Donating Member (578 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. LOL
Edited on Thu Oct-27-11 09:59 AM by itsallhappening
This isn't going to happen anyway.

But it would be a good way for some people to find work who really want/need it.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #17
23. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
itsallhappening Donating Member (578 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #23
60. Oh, no. I'm on a note?
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #60
62. Which is probably on an official-looking clipboard.
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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #17
53. Well, I need/want work desperately
and so does my husband and neither of us would take a scab job. Never doubt the resolve of desperate people. There comes a time when you have to stand up to those who would yolk us.

First they ridicule you . . .

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #53
61. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #17
64. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
itsallhappening Donating Member (578 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #64
67. Oh, okay. I'll do that.
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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #16
47. Also, the general idea is to make it impossible to get to work even if you wanted to.
If all the roads are clogged, the streets are filled with protesters, and the buses are shut down, you're physically prevented from going to work or going shopping or doing business as usual.

It also adds plausible deniability. "Gee boss, I tried to make it into work, but the roads were all blocked and those picketers were intimidating!" You don't have to tell your boss that you were actively helping to clog the roads and man the pickets.
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #47
66. And you're also physically prevented from getting to the hospital, or
picking your children up, and police might be prevented from reaching a crime scene. You know. Minor inconveniences.
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pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #66
99. Oh, come now...
What's a house burning down, or an armed break-in where the cops can't respond, or the inability of a severely ill or injured person to get to the hospital in the larger scheme of things...

People should be willing...

no, EAGER! to sacrifice at the behest/force of others.


Unwilling sacrifice...it's....PATRIOTIC!!!


Probably don't need the sarcasm thingy here...

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DisgustipatedinCA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #99
242. You lack understanding and perspective on this issue.
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ChadwickHenryWard Donating Member (692 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #66
194. Historically, when the labor movement called a general strike,
there would be a strike committee that would issue permits for essential services to continue. Police, firefighters, ambulances would all have messages painted on the side stating their exemption. Depending on the length of the strike, other things like grocers or the milk man would also be given a release. Since the strike was usually organized by the rail workers' union, they also decided which freight cars would be unloaded. Since the mail used to be carried by rail, and the military used to issue orders through the mail, the federal government would often use this as an excuse to break the strike by force.
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socialist_n_TN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #194
247. Yep. Once again somebody knows a little history about
these things. Essential services are exempt from the stikes and yes there's ALWAYS a strike committee made up of reps from all of the participating ORGANIZED worker's groups.

That's why the Occupy movement shouldn't try to reinvent the wheel. MOST of what they say they want to do has been tried in the past in one form or another. History will tell you what works and what doesn't and the pitfalls to watch out for.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #66
210. Not a fan of unions, I see. Nor solidarity. Nor sacrifice.
How reasonable.
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #210
221. You're not a fan of sick people, I see. Or crime victims. Or children.
How compassionate.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #221
233. Seems like your compassion
runs towards keeping you privileged and comfortable. So I guess you are saying that unions are against sick people and crime victims.

You really need to peddle this garbage elsewhere. Those of us with long term experience with unions and public strikes know that hospitals and police departments are arranged for in these events. Strikes like this led to the success of the Civil Rights movement and improved farm worker conditions. Your stance flies in the face of the work of people like Marin Luther King and Caesar Chavez.

As the song says: Which side are you on, boys? Which side are you on?
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #233
235. You don't have to look farther than this thread to see people threatening
to disrupt all traffic, prevent people from getting where they need or want to go or doing what they need or want to do.

If you honestly think you're going to win hearts and minds by restricting people's freedoms and actions, you are deluded beyond all hope.

Enjoy your strike (which will be a non-event, I'm sure).
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #235
238. Chill out. You can get your Starbucks the next day.
Please forgive those who are working to insure your freedom and way of life for disrupting your placid lifestyle. We will return you to your accustomed ease after we have done our best to insure that you don't have to lift a finger.
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #238
239. BWAHAHAHAHA!!! YOU'RE ensuring MY freedom?
How so?

What do you expect this little publicity stunt will actually accomplish?
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #239
240. Yes. And you are welcome.
It was always the case with unions that members would strike and suffer while scabs would keep working, giving the bosses more time to break the strike, and then the scabs would get the same benefits as the members without ever having to actually put themselves out. Pretty clever, I guess.
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itsallhappening Donating Member (578 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #47
69. Now THERE'S a great way to win converts!
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Lionessa Donating Member (842 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #47
170. EXACTLY! It has to be nearly 80% of the 99% to work, but it could.
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kctim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #16
123. Will do
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #13
20. Yes, let's just take our crumbs of cheese and scamper back to our comfy hidey holes, liberals.
Edited on Thu Oct-27-11 10:02 AM by ClassWarrior
:rofl:

NGU.

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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #20
27. If they could do it in Egypt, we can do it.
Striking was illegal over there, and I'm sure there were plenty of negative nitwits saying "If you strike, they'll just fire you and replace you."

But they built the critical mass to do the strike and they took down a government! With no unemployment insurance, no social safety net, no plan B if they lose their jobs.

And our unions did the same thing back in the early 20th century - they went on strike, even though striking was illegal and unions were illegal, and the penalty for striking was being imprisoned, having your family evicted from company housing and being left to starve. They still did strikes. And they won.

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itsallhappening Donating Member (578 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #27
74. Most of us want to live in a civilization.
Edited on Thu Oct-27-11 11:15 AM by itsallhappening
People laugh at the term "silent majority," but you know, it exists, at least in the form of people not wanting this to start looking like a third world country. And especially when it comes to a bunch of malcontents blocking streets because they've romanticized the '60s.

You could try it, but it'll get ugly, and I don't think most people will care.
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Wait Wut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #74
141. They'll care.
Care enough to lump all Democrats and Liberals into one category. The category that thought they could stop the world by ditching work for a day and caused, not only inconveniences, but life-threatening situations.

Just what we need.
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adigal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #74
146. Malcontents?? You are kidding me, right? Anyone who is content
is either part of the 1% or incredibly naive or maybe just stupid.
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a simple pattern Donating Member (426 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #74
174. What makes a third world country?
In your opinion, I mean. What are some of the policies that might lead to such?
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Admiral Loinpresser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #74
217. That's the point of the strike.
Attempting to civilize the USA.
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #27
186. Texas textbooks have rewritten that history, so you have to excuse some people for not knowing it.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #27
196. However, remember that 'the government' in the USA right now is a Democratic one
at the federal level. You have to think through what the effects of a general strike will be. Do you think it will hurt Republicans in Congress more (or Democrats), Obama's chances of re-election, state governors, state legislatures, or what? Is the purpose of this strike to get a change of politicians? Or is it against certain corporations - in which case, wouldn't more precisely directed protests be a better idea (as the early 20th century unions did)?
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socialist_n_TN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #196
248. Yep a general strike is a revolutionary or at least
prerevolutionary tactic. Which is why it needs to be MILITANT. Sometimes you can do a local or regional one for a specific purpose (to bring about the resignation of Walker in Wisconsin for example) that's not a system overturn, but in general a GS is for revolutionary times.

That means, in general, don't talk about it unless you're ready to try and replace the whole fucking thing.
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pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #20
39. No, people don't have to settle for just anything, but...
they do need to know the possible consequences of their actions.

As long as they do, and as long as they're OK with the consequences, then good for them...

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itsallhappening Donating Member (578 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #20
63. If that's your highest goal, go for it.
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #63
224. Just agreeing with you, Sparky.
:rofl:

NGU.

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pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #13
36. Or, in another scenario...
Employers know the date of the strike and inform employees that anyone out that day had better come in with a doctor's note (whenever they do return) proving they were ill or face immediate termination, whereupon that person's job goes to someone who needs one and may be willing to work for less than what the other person was getting.

But hey...people have to do what they have to do...

:shrug:

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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #36
73. I imagine that many people believe our personal convictions are more important
I imagine that many people believe our personal convictions are more important than our self-interest. We do what we have to do... :shrug:
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digidigido Donating Member (553 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #36
167. and there will be a long list of Dr.s who will co sign that
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Fuddnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #13
45. Then do it now, and let it spread.
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socialist_n_TN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #13
94. No problem. If THAT many people strike and are fired
I'm sure there will be a LOT of places with openings.
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kctim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #13
122. I hope so
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #13
159. Well, once again you show your support for liberal causes. (snort)
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #159
191. Really, after 30 minutes isn't the pizza supposed to be free?
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RetroLounge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #13
201. Why don't you go fuck yourself, troll
:puke:

RL
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AsahinaKimi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
14. I am all for it ..
(However my paycheck comes from Tokyo. So I wouldn't be able to take part in it.) But, yeah, I think its a good idea for people in the bay area to just stay home that day.. if no one went to work.. what a hell of a thing that would be.
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firehorse Donating Member (547 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
18. I don't like striking against government infrastructure that actually works, striking against banks
are better.
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Puzzledtraveller Donating Member (158 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. that just it isn't it?
Edited on Thu Oct-27-11 10:05 AM by Puzzledtraveller
We want to have our cake and eat it too, it's why it's my opinion a general strike will never come to fruition on a national scale.
If we want to protest corporations then why do we keep buying and using their goods?
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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #18
24. Because shutting down the infrastructure shuts down everything else.
Especially the businesses who are the ultimate targets.

How are you going to shop and do business if the roads are all jammed, the rail lines are down and commerce is driven to a halt?

That's how you hurt the banks.
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Puzzledtraveller Donating Member (158 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. the bus driver
who can't miss a days work because she has a rent or mortgage to pay, children to feed, school teachers, lunch room attendants, in the many school districts that don't have provisions for strikes, as myself. The tens of thousands, if not millions who are less than one paycheck away from foreclosures, evictions, repo's disconnection of utilities. Just wondering, how will that work out?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #26
29. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #26
38. Something gotta give or nothing will ever change, got it?
If not now, when?
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pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #38
42. Being willing to accept the consequences of one's actions
is all very noble.

Hey, go for it, I say.

But don't try to guilt someone into hurting him/her self or family.

If someone doesn't want to, or just CANNOT make the same sacrifice you do, then that's their right.
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #42
50. And here you are again, spreading fear, uncertainty, and doubt
Your behavior IS NOT that of one who is in support of OWS and any effective actions it may take.
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firehorse Donating Member (547 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #50
65. Agreed. Athoritarian force is not a strike. Having an idea that people want to join of their own
free will is a better idea than manipulating people with force or fear. Mob rule is not democracy either.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #65
155. Strongly agree. Timing is so important. Wrong move at wrong time=major regressive effect onmovement
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #42
55. That guilt works both way, does it not? Trying to rain on someone's or lots of someones' parade
so that to dissuade change, not a guilt trip?
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pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #55
108. You call it "raining on someone's parade"...
I call it laying out the possibilities that could happen as a result of someone's actions.

People don't generally want to hear that, though.

They wanna do what they wanna do, and they're so divorced from the reality of personal responsibility that they don't want to believe there could BE consequences.

Then, if/when those consequences happen, they're off whining about what huge VICTIMS they are and how the system is out to screw them.

Professional victims are so tiresome.

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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #108
109. You mean...actions have consequences???!!?
Not in Fantasy Land, they don't.
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pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #109
120. I know...
Scary, isn't it?

Well, maybe not from a two-year old, who doesn't even know that XYZ will happen if he does ABC.

But from adults...

yeah.

scary.
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DisgustipatedinCA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #108
243. Awwwww.....get some rest
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HappyMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #38
49. Out here in the real world
people have bills to pay, mouths to feed. Got it?
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socialist_n_TN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #49
92. Nah, you don't. All you have to do is have food, rent and
utilities. Or a mortgage. The rest of them you can go a do a Chapter 7 (or 13) and get rid of them. If we're seriously talking a general strike, a "Repayment strike" could and probably SHOULD be a part of it. Along with mass bankruptcy filings.

Now you're obviously not in favor, so don't worry about it. If strikers prevent you from getting to work, just tell the boss that. I'm sure he/she is enlightened enough to give you a pass. And if missing a days pay puts you that close to the edge, then maybe you need to reconsider the changes proposed. If not, as I say, don't worry about it.
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HappyMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #92
96. They won't prevent me from going to work. nt
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socialist_n_TN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #96
107. That's fine. I'm tired of arguing about that......
Nobody, least of all myself, is going to try to PHYSICALLY prevent you from going to work. That's not the way it works. If it's big enough that you have to WALK to work rather than drive, it's likely that a lot of your co-workers and possibly even your boss (the one with the key to the front door) won't be able to get in either. THAT'S the way it works. So go head and walk on down to work and wait outside for someone to show up.
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HappyMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #107
121. Lol!
I'm positive I won't have too wait long. I seriously think that this isn't going to be as widespread as you want it to be.

Fucking with people's livelihood, senior citizen's ability to get where they need to go, kids getting to school, firefighters, ambulances, etc. isn't the way to convince people. People don't like having stuff crammed down their throats.
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socialist_n_TN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #121
131. But they're fine with the capitalists cramming "austerity"
and a continuing lowered living standard down their throat? there comes a point where you have to make a choice between knuckling under and resisting.

BTW, it doesn't matter what I want. It's a matter of what will happen. I've read a lot of revolutionary history which is why I decided long ago that I was a Trotskyist. There have to be several objective historical events happening at the same time for a revolutionary or prerevolutionary situation to be extant and a general strike is at least a prerevolutionary tactic in the class struggle.

Actually, NONE of those preconditions are in place in this country presently. As another comrade said in another post on another thread, this isn't a prerevolutionary situation. It's not even the PRECURSOR to a prerevolutionary situation. But it MIGHT be the precusor to the precursor of a prerevolutionary situation. I actually think that it IS the "precursor to the precursor". Will it develope into more and more of a revolutionary situation? That remains to be seen, but I would lay odds in stakes of hard money, that the capitalists WILL push the issue and will do everything in their power to keep on with what they've been doing. This will naturally lead to an increasing radicalization of the working class and make events like local, regional, and national general strikes not only possible, but inevitable.

As to this specific call, I actually doubt that the working class is organized enough nationally to pull it off. It is possible locally and regionally at the present time though. Actually the Wisconsin situation was even MORE primed for a regional general strike than this until the union bureaucracy drained all the energy from the movement and put it into "recalls". Which of course, did nothing to get Walker or the Koch brothers' laws off the books.

The only saving grace to the Wisconsin capitulation by the working class was the rise in class consciousness nationwide. THAT rise in consciousness made the OWS movement possible and made the idea of a general strike at least remotely feasible. IOW, we're currently talking relatively seriously about a general stike NOW because the talk began in Wisconsin earlier this year. The idea is percolating in the general consciousness of the people now because it was broached in Wisconsin.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #131
158. So the question is how to get such a diverse lateral movement to identify/agree when "there comes a
point".
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socialist_n_TN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #158
241. Not really. That's where the need for a vanguard party
comes in. The masses are generally not historically or politically knowledgable enough to understand the objective historic conditions involved. And yes, I know a lot of people freak out at the idea of a "vanguard" party. And yes, it does sound elitist. Of course, ANYBODY with more historical and political knowledge might sound elitist, including history professors or for that matter, anybody that's fought this battle for decades. But remember this, a vanguard cannot do ANYTHING to guide a revolutionary situation UNLESS THERE'S A REVOLUTIONARY SITUATION TO GUIDE. IOW, unless the objective historical conditions are extant, all a vanguard can do is organize, educate, propagandize, and agitate.

But that's also why I have some trouble with the "diverse, lateral movement". Those types of movements are GREAT at getting the gripes out there because everybody has a voice, but when a "hard bloc" can stop any attempts at SOLUTIONS to the problems that's a BIG problem with this model. Because to me, the solutions to the problems that are supported by the majority are more important than consensus. I don't think that consensus has EVER solved these HUGE systemic problems that we face today.

That's why I'm for a version of democratic centralism. EVERYBODY has a voice, but majority rules. And remember right now, the majority would not be communist, so I'm setting MY positions up for a loss. However, I have no problem patiently educating people to what's worked in the past which IS a form of democratic centralism. Everybody has a vigorous discussion on the issues and potential solutions and when the majority decides, EVERBODY (even the dissenters) try to implement the solutions.

Would it be nice if everybody had read enough history to be an expert on the class stuggle and could make informed, educated decisions and reach a consensus? Of course it would, but that not the reality of the situation and probably won't ever be this situation. Ergo, the actual NEED for a vanguard.
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pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #92
114. Most people do have other bills...
besides food, rent, and utilities.

Gas. Money for the kids' school lunches, maybe. Clothing for the kids. If they have a baby, there are diapers.

Health insurance payments.

Maybe there's a car loan. Maybe the car needs repairs on a regular basis.

Credit card payments.


Now, maybe you wouldn't mind filing a Chapter 7 or 13, but there are other people who would mind.

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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #26
71. Less violence with better results than the Flint Sit-Strikes is one possible answer.
"Just wondering, how will that work out?"

Less violence with better results than the Flint Sit-Strikes is one possible answer.

However, I do realize that many of us will do our best to prevent the strike in order to better serve our own self-interests-- hopefully, that number will be rather small... :shrug:
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #71
157. It could be self-interest on BOTH sides of the question. It is possible, also, to be against
a general strike, because one thinks the timing is wrong, or because one favors a different form of action.
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ChadwickHenryWard Donating Member (692 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #26
195. That's how they do it.
That's how they play us against each other. We're all so desperate that we can't afford to express solidarity with one another. They can punish us more for striking than we can punish them by striking. They hold all the cards.
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HappyMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #24
28. If I get this job, I'll be able to walk to work.
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firehorse Donating Member (547 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #24
31. I don't buy into the libertarian meme that all government is bad. Why punish the teachers, the
bus drivers, the barely surviving small business owners, etc.

If you are mad at the corporations, the 4 major banks, then protest there. Put your money into a credit union before November 5. Stop buying Koch brothers products, or protest in their Hamptons front yard.

We need more attention into making our infrastructure even better: our schools, our roads, our bridges, etc. Protesting major infrastructure is like shooting yourself in the foot or throwing the baby out with the bath water.

I like the spirit of a mass protest. But think out a specific targeted thing like (bank of america) for example that creates an impact.
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randome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #31
34. And why be angry at corporations at all?
Edited on Thu Oct-27-11 10:27 AM by randome
When it's our elected officials who are to blame for not doing their damned jobs!

A corporation is only created from paper. Hardly a worthy opponent. It's the people who are supposed to regulate those paper entities who we need to take our message to!
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firehorse Donating Member (547 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #34
72. Because hiding behind every corporation is a 1%er CEO. And corporations shouldn't enjoy the freedom
of personage.

Corporate greed and profits over people is the problem. Bridges, tunnels and teachers, firemen, public universities are not the problem.
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randome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #72
78. Corporations will ALWAYS be greedy.
It's in their DNA.

That's why I say we should be sending a message to the officials who are supposed to regulate that greed.
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a simple pattern Donating Member (426 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #72
176. Exactly, and those 1%er CEOs shouldn't enjoy
the freedom to kill, steal and maim under a false name
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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #31
37. Like I explained earlier. Shut down the infrastructure to shut down everything else.
Edited on Thu Oct-27-11 10:38 AM by backscatter712
Shutting down the schools and roads aren't the end of the strike, they're the means for which we exercise power towards the ulitmate end - forcing power elites who would otherwise ignore our demands to meet them.

Shut down the schools, the parents have to call in sick to work so they can watch their kids - they just unwittingly joined the strike.

Shut down the buses - people who ride the buses to work can't make it to work, or at least have to come in late - they just joined the strike.

Shut down the roads, the people driving to work, the truck drivers delivering stuff all just joined the strike.

The idea isn't just to get a few people to stop contributing to the corrupt system, but to make sure countless others are unable to contribute as well.

socialist_n_TN said it right - you make it so people who WANT to scab can't do it.

Monkey-wrench the entire system. The corporations and power elites depend on the system for their gravy train. The goal is to break the entire system down.
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #37
48. And screw free will.
If people don't know what's good for 'em, we'll FORCE them into it.

And you honestly can't see how much resentment and ill-will this would foster?

This is so naively short-sighted, I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
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HappyMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #48
58. Exactly. nt
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #48
82. "anarchists" are wearing several different labels these days & I do mean " ". nt
Edited on Thu Oct-27-11 11:39 AM by patrice
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #82
93. Take the "anarchists" bowling, take them bowling. nt
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #93
97. ?
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #97
100. I don't know why...
But an old Camper Van Beethoven song popped into my head.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1UgeOKN1DE
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #100
149. Well, CVB does make it sound like good advice. We all keep saying we NEED to have more fun, but . .
some are too busy arguing about whether there should be 100% consensus about extra pots & pans being stored off-site or not, to do anything about fun.

Sound familiar?
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GreenStormCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #37
137. Shut down the hospitals. Let a bunch of folks die.
Way to win over hearts and minds. :sarcasm:
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christx30 Donating Member (774 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #37
193. If I don't go to work
I don't get paid. I am one missing day from not making my rent most months. So if I had to miss a day of work because of protests, I'd be very pissed off. I'd be more likely to work against the protests than support their cause.
I do generally support what OWS is fighting for. I even plan to be at the Occupy Austin rally this weekend when I'm off work.
I know we're supposed to stand in solidarity with the strikers and everything... but I gotta live. Gotta pay bills. If it looks like the strike is gonna happen, I'll switch to work at home so I don't have to worry about the roads.

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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #31
80. Agree!
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #24
83. Won't it keep sick people from getting to doctors, too?
just wondering.
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #83
88. You've gotta break a few eggs
If you want a good quiche.
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pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #88
118. Yeah...
as long as it's your OWN eggs you're breaking.


It's not sporting to play with the health of other people

Wouldn't make me feel good to know I kept someone from getting a crucial dialysis treatment or chemo or something.

But hey...as long as it's someone else...who cares, right?


Sounds suspiciously like the bullshit we hear from the 1%. As long as THEY'RE fine, who gives a rat's ass about the unwashed peasants...

Yeah, they suck. But it's possible to suck on the other side of it too...
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Lionessa Donating Member (842 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #18
173. Government infrastructure isn't working, or we'd be having infrastructure improvements instead
Edited on Thu Oct-27-11 03:54 PM by Lionessa
of all the dying bridges, the lesser internet coverage, the rutty streets & highways, poorly paid teachers (sorry I consider our childrens' education as a vital part of infrastructure), Medicare & Medicaid fraud making many believe we're better off with neither, and more.

The idea that the government is doing it's job is pretty much BS unless you're discussing cops & prisons. It's not that I don't want government, but I certainly want one that is not bought and paid for by banks and corps, and one that works and finds and prosecutes fraud, oilspills, market scams, and let's not forget, improve infrastructure.
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ChazII Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
22. How about shutting down the schools?
Parents would know in advance and this gives them time to make arrangements for the care of their child/children.
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Motown_Johnny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
30. How about just having days where you don't spend any money?

I honestly don't want to go without pay for a day to try and make a point to people who are still getting paid.


I think it would have more impact if we just picked days when we would not buy ANYTHING.


Leave all the stores empty. Every gas station, movie theater and restaurant left without customers.



If we want to f__k with their money then this makes more sense to me than having them not pay their employees for a day that they don't show up for.



I would support a general boycott before I would support a general strike.
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socialist_n_TN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
32. Yep, this is the way to go, if you want to hurt
the 1%. You fuck with their money. But a general strike is a different animal. It is a militant action that can't go halfway. You make it so that even people who WANT to scab, can't do it. The streets and highways are blocaded and corporate shops and stores everywhere are ACTUALLY occupied.

It's easier to do on a local or regional scale. Which is why I suggested something similiar for the Bay area last night. But who knows? If it's even partially successful locally, it COULD spread regionally or even nationally.

But make no mistake. For it to work, any participants need a militant attitude and not care about arrest and detention.
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HappyMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #32
35. Really?
So you would prevent me from going to work?
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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #35
40. Yes. I would.
Edited on Thu Oct-27-11 10:42 AM by backscatter712
And this adds plausible deniability for those who want to strike, but are threatened with termination if they don't make it to work - "Gosh, boss, I tried to make it in, but the traffic was backed up for miles! The picketers were intimidating!" You don't have to tell the boss that you were deliberately part of the traffic blockade and you were marching in those pickets.
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HappyMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #40
43. I will be able to walk to work.
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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #43
54. But would you be able to work?
You might be able to walk to your workplace, but at least some of your coworkers, maybe even your bosses might not.

And your workplace isn't in a vacuum. Is it a store? Looks like business will be very slow on the day of the strike. Does it work with other businesses? Those other businesses will also be disrupted by the strike.
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HappyMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #54
68. I might very well be able to work.
I am not expecting a massive lockstep. Rent & utilities still have to be paid.
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #68
75. One step backwards and two steps forward is indeed a scary thought
One step backwards followed by two steps forward is indeed a scary thought for many people who will only perceive one step at a time...
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itsallhappening Donating Member (578 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #68
76. This is what it's about.
It's an anti-work, anti-capitalist movement, and if they have to hurt the "little guy," so be it. Even if they claim to stand for the little guy.

So fucking transparent.
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randome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #76
81. Right.
Edited on Thu Oct-27-11 11:32 AM by randome
Anyone who wants to engage in a discussion on a discussion forum is 'transparent'.

Do I need to say I disagree with that?

On edit:
Sorry, were you being sarcastic or not?
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #76
98. Post hoc ergo prompter hoc is also rather transparent.
Post hoc ergo prompter hoc is also rather transparent.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #98
150. Good analysis! but - propter = because, hence: after this, therefore, because of this.
Hope you don't mind; just bein' helpful, I hope.

:hi:
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randome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #32
41. You're fighting the wrong enemy.
It's not people who have money who are to blame for the current mess.

It's the people who refuse to do anything to regulate the economy.

Shutting down the livelihoods of people who want to work is not going to help.

Corporations are made of paper. You can't fight paper with a strike. You need to fight the people who give that paper power.
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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #41
44. Because the people who refuse to regulate are bought by the people with money.
In a situation where they absolutely refuse to listen to ordinary protests, and elections are just a choice between two slightly different classifications of assholes, yeah, I'd say a general strike is on the table.

And I'm sorry that we have to talk about preventing people from working, but we're in a situation where we must consider such tactics. Because we have to hit our enemies in the wallet - the only place where they truly feel pain, and a strike may be the only way to do it. If the alternative is surrender, yes, I damned well will contemplate this tactic, with the collateral damage included.

If you want to win, you have to be ruthless. Don't think for one minute that our enemies will hesitate to use equivalent tactics on us.

And yes, you're right. Corporations are made of paper. And their lifeblood is also paper - green in color, with pictures of dead presidents. A general strike is a tactic designed to make the corporations bleed money. If the corporations can't get workers into work, if they can't get people buying products because of the strike, they still have bills to pay, and their financials will take a sharp, alarming nosedive.

It's time to tell the corporations and the corrupt government they've bought that they will be bankrupted if they don't treat people fairly.
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randome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #44
51. 'Tell the corporations'?
Then you've bought into the line that corporations are people and can be reasoned with.

Corporations are like plants. They respond to stimulii, they don't make logical decisions. With the right regulatory environment, just like with the right gardening care, they can be made to grow the way we want them to.

It's the gardeners we hired who are full of shit. The people who are supposed to be doing their jobs have failed. Our glorious legislators.
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socialist_n_TN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #44
89. Another thing is that a one month
"Repayment Strike" on bills owed to banks, along with a general day or more of withholding labor will ALSO hit the capitalists where it hurts in the pocketbooks. But it would all need to be highly co-ordinated.
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crazyjoe Donating Member (921 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #89
162. ya, that's gonna happen.
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a simple pattern Donating Member (426 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #41
177. Ever heard of regulatory capture
Yeah, you probably have
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kctim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #32
128. Are you in TN?
Do you have any idea what would happen to a liberal "blockade" of the streets and highways around here? The police and national guard would be the last of your worries. Their asses would be met with a militia type of attitude that would make them wish they were arrested or detained.

This occupy crap is nowhere near as big or supported as the far-left thinks, and you will be VERY sorry if you start messing with peoples personal lives.
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socialist_n_TN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #128
134. Yes I am. Which is exactly why I said it's more practical
at the present time to do it on a local and regional basis. We're not ready for a nationwide general strike. I personally never said we were.

That doesn't mean, however, that a regional general strike on the West Coast or the Northeast corridor wouldn't get the owner's attention and cost them money.
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
33. Recommend - now we're talking. K&R nt
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spinbaby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
46. It would be great if it worked
But too many Americans are too afraid and on the edge to want to participate unless they think most other people will also participate. Getting that critical mass could be difficult. I'm thinking a day of wearing purple would be a good way to warm up to a general strike--if you can get a large number of people to wear purple one day, then people will see how many people are on their side and will strike with them when the time comes.

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tama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
52. All Power to Councils
is the real meaning of General Strike, all the way. The real meaning of 99%. It's clear that many people are not ready for that - yet. But the mood is changing and readiness and need for a real change is building.
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socialist_n_TN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #52
101. Sometimes years go by without much happening.
And sometimes years go by in months. As a Trotskyist for 40+ years, we know that a lot of conditions have to be met for a true worker's revolution to take place. It's actually closer now than even it was in the 60s.

Of course, that still doesn't mean it's actually close. :)
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tama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #101
183. I'm anarchist
with small a, and a communist. Was a member of a Trotskyist party for a while. Enough to prove that centralism is not the final answer. Trotskyism offers no solution between the real productive class - nature and gardeners and gatherers - and the secondary dependent urban class that dream of dictatorship of the urban industrial class and ideological party elites. But I'm with you, comrade, as long as you don't treat me like Trotsky treated Makhno and Cronstadt. :)

As long as you stay real communist-anarchist in heart and don't get too self-important over the imagined socialism... :)
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socialist_n_TN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #183
244. I've been ACTUAL working class all of my life
as have my ancestors as far as anybody has traced them. Actually most of my immediate ancestors were farmers (gardeners and gatherers), so I'm not a party elite separated from the masses. I AM the masses or at least the radical left wing of the masses.

I won't get into anarchist/vanguard argument at this time, except to say this. No anarchist that I've ever talked to has told me how the anarchist model will effectively fight the inevitable capitalist counter revolution. :) Anarchy can bring down governments (the Tsar in February 1917 was pretty much of an anarchist revolution), but it can't DEFEND a revolution.
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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
56. It has my complete support.
It's time to make a stand.


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GreenStormCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #56
142. The driver of the lead tank also had great courage.
He refused to use the power of the tank to run over the guy standing.
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randome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #142
145. Good point.
Thanks.
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tama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #56
184. As you told me
we are the ones we have been waiting for.

Family values :)
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
59. If you REALLY want to make a statement, take down the porn sites.
Crash the porn servers and you'll get people's attention.
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
70. I've heard May is the target date but how about we brainstorm some other things to do before that
Face it, a lot of the Occupy protests in the Northern climates are going to fizzle when the winter really hits. I've been to the occupy Chicago site the past two weekends and as a Chicagoan, it's going to get too damn cold pretty soon. While the idea of organizing a general strike is incredibly attractive I think it would be helpful to have some other actions that everyone can participate in before that date - so the elites know we haven't gone away....

Some suggestions:

1. We need to hit them in the pocketbook. Continuing to encourage people to move their money out of the big corrupt banks and into their local banks and/or credit unions is really important. That must continue

2. Christmas is coming up. How about we spear a movement to buy local from local producers. Don't spend money at the big stores - just stop. Or make the gift be something you made yourself. Or encourage businesses to post that they are "Occupy" supporters and we make it a point to only patronize them. We need an economic hit plan and Christmas is a blockbuster event for us to work with in order to make a big dent in their bottom line.

3. How can we co-opt New Year's Eve so it becomes an "Occupy event"? That mass of people all carrying signs AND protesting AND having a party would be a blast!

Anyway, some thoughts
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a simple pattern Donating Member (426 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #70
178. Oh man I want 99% glasses with glitter on them
This must happen
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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
77. Next May?? How about Janruary or February instead..nt
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #77
90. Why not November? Shut down Black Friday. And all of the Christmas shopping
season. Why wait? Hit the capitalist rat bastards where it hurts.
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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #90
188. I do not understand the waiting either...nt
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DRoseDARs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #188
204. Because it's hard to maintain a General Strike while trying not to freeze to death.
This isn't a regular kind of strike they're proposing. A regular union strike would be pretty well-organized and involve known numbers of participants. What we're dealing with now is a different animal, people who aren't necessarily union, maybe not even employed, ALL with different reasons for joining the protest/strike, thousands of such people and growing nation-wide. The logistics are going to be a nightmare. The logistics of doing this in the dead of Winter? No, just no. The safety and good health of Occupy participants comes first, so waiting until Spring is the only sensible thing to do since many of the participants aren't exactly of hardy stock and likely have never spent a single night without a roof over their head before now. They need to earn their outdoor merit badges trying to maintain the occupations through the Winter first so they can be the bedrock of a re-invigorated movement once the snow melts.
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Desertrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
79. I hate it but I love it....
Hate that we've come to this but love that the people are ready to fight this together.
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lynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
84. Seems to me a general strike would be more hurtful to the 99% -
Edited on Thu Oct-27-11 11:39 AM by lynne
- should it succeed to shutting down highways, ports, rail lines, airports, etc. One day in the life of the 1% is squat but one day in the life of a 99%er who can't get to work can be devastating. Should it succeed to the point where banks are impacted and access to funds is an issue, its the 99% that will be hurt - not the 1%. The 1% can do business on their reputation and signature alone. The 99% will just be out of luck.

Personally, I don't think OWS has enough active citizen support to pull off a nationwide strike to this extent. Especially in this economy where everyone is worried about keeping their job.
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randome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #84
86. Anyone have an idea how many people are actively in an OWS group?
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lynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #86
95. Haven't seen any numbers on actual participants nationwide. You see poll -
- numbers saying how many people agree with OWS views BUT that's far different from the number that are willing to leave home, miss work, and actively demonstrate. A recent CBSnews.com poll says 43% agree with OWS views.
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #95
103. Does that mean that 57% DON'T agree with OWS views?
Probably not...most people don't give a crap, or don't know enough to have an opinion.

But it's a safe bet to think that most of that 57%--and some of the 43%--would be inconvenienced and adversely affected by a general strike, and that might shrink the 43% even further.
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randome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #95
110. Yeah, I'm just trying to extrapolate.
Just pulling numbers out of my ass, I'd guess that perhaps 10 times the number of active OWS participants would join in a general strike.

Without having a good idea of what number that would be, I'd still guess there would not be enough to support a general strike.
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tcaudilllg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #95
160. I keep telling you guys, you have to hit the grassroots
You need to get local Dem parties involved. That's how you meet people, especially in rural areas.

I hope someone in this movement understands the American left's social habits. Not everything starts at Starbucks.
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #84
87. Why let facts and common sense get in the way of outraged activism?
Didn't you see? The call for a GENERAL STRIKE!! was in ALL CAPS, with exclamation points, even!!

That right there is all the proof you need.
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HappyMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #87
91. lol!
All caps makes all the difference in the world.

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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #87
124. Wait, didn't that loony outraged activist hippie looking guy pictured in your avatar
Edited on Thu Oct-27-11 12:50 PM by Zorra
say this?

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Ben Franklin

:wow:

LOL! What an idiot! Any sensible person knows that the only sensible way to change things is through the established system. Trying any other method could be uncomfortable.

Seriously, that damn fool would have started an outright revolution if he could have pulled it off.

Oh, yeah...whoops...

nevermind
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white_wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #124
130. I wouldn't waste your time debating him.
I did a Google search for "Common Sense Party" it is a right wing third party that supports the Fair Tax, making English the official language of the U.S., maintaining the U.S. as the world's sole military superpower, supports charter schools and opposes teacher's unions, oh and they have a picture of the Tea Party on their website.
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #130
132. Wow. You can Google! Not very effectively, but still...
Yeah, I Googled White Wolf, and apparently you make lame vampire gaming software.

It must be you. It said so right there in The Google.
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randome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #132
135. Now, boys, play nicely together.
:toast:
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socialist_n_TN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #132
136. Hey YOU'RE the one who chose the name of a
tea party group as your user name. Don't blame somebody for checking it out.
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white_wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #132
138. Well when you put the party's name as your username and use an avatar very similar to the
picture they use on their site, and use a lot of the same terminology used on their site, you shouldn't be surprised when people assume you support that party.
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #130
139. Got it. Thanks! nt
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tama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #84
185. Then you understand the main issue
we need a way of life where we are not dependent from "keeping a job", from wage slavery, but free to work for ourselves and each others in good balance with the planet. Freedom to work together for common good instead of compulsory and harmful competition for the benefit of purely imaginary persons and those selling their psychopathic souls to corporations.

And of course, the real general strike we are starting to talk about is not a "natitonwide" but a global one. We are all in the same boat, space ship Earth, and we need to get our shit together ASAP. For the kids, you know.
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jtuck004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
102. There's already 25 million people sitting down. How will a few more help?
Edited on Thu Oct-27-11 12:09 PM by jtuck004
They are the unemployed and underemployed. Not enough jobs for them now, and you (the collective) think ceasing work, which would terribly hurt untold millions who depend on that for the little bit of food or housing they get, would accomplish exactly what?

And let's say your opponents say you are right and throw up their hands. What is the plan?

I'm not in disagreement with your identification of our opponents and their crimes, but this tactic sounds phony and ill-thought out.
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socialist_n_TN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #102
140. The largest rise in labor actions was during the
Great Depression. Hard economic times don't necessarily shut down activism. It actually increases activism because the bosses become more bold in their oppression. Which leads to resistance.
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jtuck004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #140
219. Yes. And that's a useful historical fact.
So what is a "strike" expected to gain? Just wondering how they would measure success, what they might be hoping to gain? It's not an unreasonable question if people are going to be hurt or sacrifice their living. What should they expect to win? What's the prize they keep their eye on? And how do they know they are on the right road?

If 10,000 people sit down at their job with their 99% signs, leaving aside all the other ramifications, that is an action. How do you evaluate whether it is a success? How does it advance your cause? We get public recognition" is too vague. "It shows support" is just as vague. Or did you just gave business 10,000 targets?

We now have an American citizen, who happens to be a veteran, in the hospital, perhaps as the result of a quasi-military police force being unleashed on unarmed civilians that may have thrown some rocks and bottles. I hope they get more than this lousy park for that.

I think there are tens of millions of Americans that would stand beside them if they believed they were owned by corporations. That would end all this missile-throwing and take this to a whole 'nother level. (There is nothing honorable about thowing rocks or firing rubber bullets on either side, at least nothing that jumps out at me). But the oppressed may not know they are oppressed, and most likely don't, if Paulo Freire was correct). They must be reached out to (which may involve a pitched battle in itself) and helped to identify their oppressor and find their own answer. They can be victorious. Civil rights went throught 40+ years of lawsuits and learning before they moved to direct action as a tactic, a deliberate result result of what they studied and learned. They EXPECTED the outcome to be legislation in their favor, and they were proven correct. This current effort, the outgrowth of an Internet posting, is interesting, but it remains to be seen if it leads to votes or legislation, or ?. It might also get people hurt for no good reason, and that would be a real tragedy.

The future of this country is at stake and I would like to believe this "think tank" is part of the answer. They are so amorphous, however, that they can be a lot of things to a lot of people. People can hear what they want but wind up disappointed, maybe even harmed, by the planning and execution, though amorphous isn't necessarily bad.

I've seen that before, so I'm a little leery. (Think of how many George Bush got killed. That's not over by a long ways). I respect what they are doing. I have been to our local occupy site. I talk about it when I can, and I will support them where I can, especially if some outreach program starts up. And still ask questions.
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socialist_n_TN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #219
245. Well one of my LEFT wing critiques about the Occupy
movement in general, is that they haven't focused (YET) on solutions to the problems, and then tactics to ACHIEVE those solutions, that they themselves outlined the very first week they were in Zucotti park. And I don't believe they actually ever will. Agreeing on practical matters by consensus is doesn't usually happen.
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Hutzpa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
104. It's looking more likely
I said it before, Obama needs to come out and speak on behalf of these people.
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #104
105. How would that go over?
Many of them are sick of Obama, and think he's in bed with the 1%.
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Hutzpa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #105
113. They are sick of Obama because they think he has not done enough
they know he is not part of the 1%.
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #113
116. They also know he filled his cabinet with many Wall Street Goldman Sachs
one-percenters.
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Hutzpa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #116
119. I've always believed that in any major problem
Edited on Thu Oct-27-11 12:55 PM by Hutzpa
for an outsider to understand the crock of the problem is to employ the individuals
that created the problem, once you've done that you can then bring in your own
expert to fix the existing problem, it is not easy to understand, but I do feel
strongly that this is part of Obama's strategy.
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randome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #119
127. Interesting perspective.
Thanks for that.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #119
152. That's what I'd do, because it is PRIVATE information about the problem, but it looks as though PO
trusted some of his SMEs too much and might even have been double-crossed by Geitner at least.
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tama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #113
187. Obama and any POTUS nowadays
gives himself unconstitutional power to murder any and each of we the 99%.

Murderers at the top of murderous hierarchies are dependent from people following their orders and being afraid of getting murdered.

This is the reality we need to wake up to.
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RegieRocker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
106. The Day The Earth Stood Still
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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
111. Now that we are all working as a unit there really are no limits to what we can do.
I just hope that we use our power wisely, and don't get too much in a hurry for immediate results.
This change will come gradually and we have to stay engaged in the process, and receptive/adaptable rather
than aggressive/dogmatic.
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Shagbark Hickory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
112. Can we have a general strike a couple of weeks before Christmas? The 1% would shit bricks. n/t
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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #112
126. I like the idea of a Black Friday general strike... n/t
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Shagbark Hickory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #126
129. Oh Fuckyeah! Now that's what I'm talkin' bout.
Kick those 1% right in the balls.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #126
153. Boycott tomorrow, Friday, October 28
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBR7xYuyg84

Also appears, according to google, to be a special day on the Mayan calendar.
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
117. A General Strike now???!!! First let's see if OWS can achieve and win a much more modest goal.
Edited on Thu Oct-27-11 12:36 PM by Better Believe It
Taking back and holding all the park encampments.

If that can't be accomplished soon, that would suggest that it's a bit premature to call a General Strike, especially without the backing of workers organizations that have millions of workers as members, the labor unions.

Who would call and lead the national General Strike, the local OWS groups?

When OWS finds a way to involved millions of workers in their actions and have achieved meaningful influence among working people that might be the time for a serious discussion on how such a general strike could be successfully organized.

But, we are not exactly there yet.

Unfortunately many key OWS organizers have not yet presented a clear plan of action to draw significant numbers of working class people including union members in their action. A modest sized demonstration of a few hundred thousand people in a Bay Area march against the Oakland cops would be a step forward toward building a mass movement of the 99%. I hope OWS activists are working on this with well thought out plan and organizational structure.

Think big! I don't like small and small protests and small movements usually don't accomplish much. The OWS movement needs to grow a lot and involve more and more layers of the working class population in their actions and deliberations. And as it grows it will become more difficult for the government to repress the movement using their para-military domestic police forces.

It sounds really militant and great calling for a General Strike. However, if you don't have the leadership and numbers to pull of such a strike you'll wind up with egg on your face even if it "feels good" to sound so radical. You'll look like half backed sectarians out of touch with the 99% you claim to speak for!

General Strike? Why not prove how militant we really are by calling for a revolution now or maybe next month but before the winter storms!

Wow! Now that really sounds ultra radical! How many will follow us in storming the barracades.... now?

Maybe five.

First things first. Let's see how many will respond to a broad based call to march in Oakland and restore the constitution and free assembly at the park.



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randome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #117
125. Taking back the park encampments.
Sure. All they'll do is build walls around them and call them public amphitheatres.

March in Oakland, sure. But then what? March to Washington! That's where the message needs to be delivered.

To hell with comparisons to previous marches. This is the here and now. Our elected officials have failed in their jobs. We need to remind them who they work for.
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socialist_n_TN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #117
144. I agree in general with the thrust of your post, BUT
I think that local and regional union actions in support of the Occupy movement and against police brutality and oppression would be apropos.
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SusanaMontana41 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
133. I'm in. nt
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
147. I doubt there will be a general strike.
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adigal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
148. A boycott would be more effective
Boycott any companies that offshore their workers. Do it seriously, try to make it permanent. Find lists of stuff made here, or buy used/vintage. Want to hurt the big guys who hurt us?? That is what will do it.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #148
154. OccupyKC is boycotting tomorrow, Friday, Oct 28, also appears to be a special day
on Mayan calendar according to google.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBR7xYuyg84
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FailureToCommunicate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #148
161. +1
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Hosnon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
151. Secessio plebis!
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
156. It worked so well in Greece that they went ahead and held another one
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The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
163. How about a national shop lifting day
Everyone go to a major chain store and steal something.
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libodem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
164. I love the idea
I'm on personal strike, flat on my back, in bed, in agony, pinched nerve in my neck, can't hold up my head. I've been so crabby and sarcastic, my ignorant bitching has been deleted by Mods. But I'll join your strike. Sick and tired of being sick and tired.
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MedicalAdmin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
165. And lets' lot limit it to the US.
Any general strike, at this point, must be world wide.

Fuck the 1 %. They deserve no mercy, no quarter, and no second chances.
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Maineman Donating Member (411 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
166. Boycott vs Strike
A general strike would get lots of attention. It would also put quite a few people in a difficult spot, as we are seeing, people worried about jobs, loss of pay, etc. A general strike would have to be only a day or two, then people would go buy what they did not buy for a day or two, no real outcome other than getting attention - which does have value, I agree.

A boycott might have more potential if people agreed to pick one particular entity - bank, corporation, etc., (all Koch Brothers businesses!) and that could be a show of power, do some real damage to a specific profiteer. I think it was in the 50s that auto workers unions would pick one particular auto maker and strike for better wages, then the other car makers would pretty much have to follow suit. I don't think that model fits here. What we need is political power, direct political power. We need politicians to respond to votes rather than money.

My best idea: Keep making news in the most positive way possible. 99% is a lot a people. Sooner or later we can vote out all Republicans and half of the Democrats, regardless of how much money is spent by the 1% on campaign ads, dirty tricks, and lies. When money fails to buy politicians, changes will be made.
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Lionessa Donating Member (842 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
169. Yep, I suggested this nationwide, just for an hour, everyone sit the hell
down and refuse to move, drive, answer phones, ANYTHING.

I was told then that it would be unfair to all those that still managed to have a crappy job, and should never mention it again, sort of thing.

I like you am glad, and look forward to it going national then global.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
171. Combine selective economic inequality actions with RECALL of elected officials like WISCONSIN
is doing. The time for REAL change of the culture in DC (EVERYWHERE) is here. OCCUPY is US (we, the people)-"leaderless"--DEMOCRACY IN OUR STREETS, AND HOUSES! No one is above the rule of law.

RECALL SCOTT WALKER!
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DaveJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
172. backscatter, how will your employer react when you stop going to work?
Or are you self employed? My guess is self employed. If we miss one paycheck, there goes the mortgage payment, the house, etc.
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RoccoR5955 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
175. How about a massive turnout for "Buy Nothing Day?"
Buy Nothing Day, is what the MSM likes to call Black Friday. If we bought nothing that day, it might have some impact. It's already on many of our calendars, all we have to do is to spread the word.
http://www.adbusters.org/campaigns/bnd
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pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #175
237. Maybe not
Because there will more than likely be people who will buy on that day anyway, convinced that others will get there first and snap up all the good deals.

Desperate people are opportunists, and if they're afraid enough, they'll do what they have to in order to get what they want or need.

Also...so what if nobody shows up on Black Friday? Merchants just follow Plan B and make it Black Saturday...maybe they'll even sweeten the pot a bit by offering deals so fantastic, it would take a person with the willpower of a saint to pass them up. Especially if that person has limited funds and kids he wants to buy Christmas gifts for.

Let's see...

boycotting something vs. making one's kids happy

In most cases, the kids win every time.

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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
180. I'm IN. I'm totally in. This isn't a tea party . . . this is a power struggle. nt
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Mr_Jefferson_24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
181. Non-violent non-cooperation is the right medicine.
Edited on Thu Oct-27-11 04:37 PM by Mr_Jefferson_24
MLK taught us how to make it a reality -- mass participation, clearly articulated grievances, and patience are the key ingredients.

A general strike would be very effective with sufficient and sustained participation, and therein lies the hitch, getting enough people involved and truly committed.

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LiberalEsto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
182. Fawke with their money
Fawke the banksters
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
189. We have two weapons they fear.
1) we can withhold our labor and bring the private economy to a halt, and
2) we can stop buying their shit, and bring the private economy to a halt.

We should do both.
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SnakeEyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
190. General strikes have the risk of
turning those non-union or big union supporters to turn against you, including those that generally support unions but not enough to be inconvenienced. With the number of union households continuing to decline I think a general strike would be a big risk. It opens the door for union busting too. The UK in the 1980s is a good example.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #190
200. You're forgetting the millions who are out of work, or working
two or three jobs because of low wages. And you're forgetting the millions who have lost everything, their homes, many their pensions and savings.

The times dictate what will succeed and what will not. Ten years ago, this would not have worked, people did not see what was coming. Now, they do. And the people are angry.
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PatrynXX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
197. go for it
although hope we have volunteers keeping some parks open. not sure if parks use unionized maintenance crews. I don't think parks would be affected but being cops the way they are about parks. they seem to strike there first.

although a proper stay at a cottage means the tv should be unplugged. bit worthless anyway. everythings on the computer. and the new laptop comes with a bd player. :P

but if I'm heading towards downtown Omaha in the middle of November, I'd love to meet some protesters. Durham Museum though is along the old tracks. but it was called the UNION station. Just news of cops targeting a marine with a rubber bullet (or supposedly a gas canister) has be torn way to many ways. I've got my own mental issues. OCD, panic, ADD. So yes PTSD is real whether you've been to war or not. and I'm sure wednesday morning's melee has some of my issue's messing around. So I'm kinda angry, depressed (clinically!!) but more depressed than normal. livid, my ADD is up can't spell right, missing words... etc and also a feeling of revenge. which is what I did on my dad last night. Knowing a Marine was hit, I felt like I hadn't taken any hits myself and being he's the tea party nut in the house aimed straight for him and sure enough, his response was the Fox nuts talking point of the day. I've been drinking Acorn kool aid again. yep hook line and sinker. just want I wanted. Made me feel better that his only defense was a debunked fox talking point...
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a2liberal Donating Member (381 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
199. K&R (n/t)
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FairWinds Donating Member (14 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
203. I'd Support a General Strike
. . or any non-violent action. I'm retired, so the GS would not cost me much - but I'll pledge $200 to support it.
I'm also a proud member of Veterans for Peace, and am highly irate at the Oakland cops.
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UrbScotty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 08:31 PM
Response to Original message
205. "Grind the economy to a halt?" NO. I'm looking for full-time work.
Edited on Thu Oct-27-11 08:32 PM by UrbScotty
Now, what we REALLY need is to boycott companies that are helping cause this problem.

Buy local.

Hurt the super-wealthy and greedy. DON'T hurt those of us who are hurting. Leave that to conservatives!
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
206. I won't be striking--I work for a homeless shelter & one that helps hungry people.
I would be shocked if there were even a small general strike. Generally those who call for a general strike have far less to lose than those they want to strike.

The U.S. is far more conservative and far less unionized than European countries that do have general strikes. Here the concept of a general strike is a Liberal wet dream which for those truly in touch with reality has virtually no chance of happening. It ranks right up there with the alternate universe where Dennis Kucinich or Bernie Sanders is elected president.
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randome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #206
236. Whoa. What you said.
Thanks for the eloquence.
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #206
246. 100% Correctomundo. I remember the "Leave a cart" silliness a few years back. The folks who would've
suffered the most from the widespread actions proposed would've been the minimum wage workers who could afford it the least - the very same people a so-called "general strike" on offer here would hurt the most.

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zentrum Donating Member (125 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
207. Only the BIg Guys should be struck
You'll destroy the fragile small businesses in Oakland if you do this kind of thing.

Target only Safeway, Chevron, Walgreens, Whole Foods--only the multinationals and big corporations.

Instead of a general strike you should support locally owned mom and pops in all their forms in Oakland on the same day you strike the the big names.

Hurt the 1%--not the 99% .
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crunch60 Donating Member (85 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
208. Fantastic interview with Glen Greenwald- listen / read this

and decide if you would trust the government with anything. Democrats are in the White House now, but they are the 1%. Unable or unwilling to change anything. Without a complete system overhaul, much will remain the same. Get rid of the scab's on the Supreme Court, overturn Citizens United etc. Greemwald talks about Obama's withdrawing troops from Iraq. It's amusing how he takes credit for something like this.

http://www.democracynow.org/2011/10/26/glenn_greenwald_...
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Oldboldandresolved Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
209. Respectfully disagree
A general strike would only harm the 99% with little impact on the 1%.

Today we are fighting a battle of $$$$, economic impact; moving and removing your money is the weapon.

Withhold any of the "1%'s" financial transaction; don't buy anything with a credit card or debit card on the day of the strike.

Don't buy anything, but if you do, use cash. The goal is to make an impact upon the day's financial markets. Demonstrate to the 1% where their riches come from.

Use cash at your local merchant. Move your finances to local institutions and make sure that they know you are investing with them because they are local. Talk directly to the branch manage make you opinion heard.

Purchase wisely, don't allow your $$$ to support the International Fascist* economic interest seeking to overthrow our Democracy.


I agree that it is time to Strike. But this is not the time for the labor strike of our fathers, now is the time for an economic strike using today's weapons which are readily available to each of us, the "99%": bank accounts, debit cards, charge cards, mortgages, loans, retirement plans and investments; what you buy, where you buy and how much you buy. Take action individually, shut down the money flow and they will come begging. Shut off your money and they will loose power, withhold funding and replace your political sycophants.

It is also the time for anonymity. Act wisely in public, take action in private. Fascist uprisings, when threatened, do not relinquish power peacefully. The "1%" control the violence. Violence and intimidation is the avenue of their last resort. History is the teacher.

Live for tomorrow. Greed is not good. Support your neighbor. Have faith in each other and our democracy. Oppose evil. Educate
your elected politician that do your bidding.


Peace, Love and Happiness, now is the time.


Peacefully yours

"Old, Bold and Resolved"



*The 147 super connected companies.
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louslobbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 09:46 PM
Response to Original message
211. K&R
Lou
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louslobbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 09:46 PM
Response to Original message
212. K&R
Lou
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louslobbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
213. K&R
Lou
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Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
214. The power always has been, and always will be, in the hands of the People.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-11 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
215. Which side are you on, boys? Which side are you on?
Florence Reece wrote it. Here's her version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nzudto-FA5Y&feature=rela...

If you like it more modern, try the Dropkick Murphys: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKWfnO7fhQM

Want it smooth. Natalie has a version too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeKYVxvzKcU&feature=rela...

These are the lyrics of our age. Listen and decide: Which side are you on?
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #215
230. Great song, they should make it the OWS song now.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #230
234. Pete Seeger to Natalie Merchant. From the 30's to now.
It's a song with a question that must be answered.
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sheldon Donating Member (197 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-11 12:30 AM
Response to Original message
228. I would support SELECTIVE strikes...
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jtuck004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-11 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
249. Oh, goodie. 25 million people out of work and you want a few thousand

more to sit down. I fail to see what that will accomplish. It's not to show support, we already have that. It won't hurt the people that killed our economy - they could survive for decades while we die. For that matter they could just move to another country and tell us all to fuck off, and very likely profit quite well, while we what. Get up from our strike and do something? Why not take that step now?

I appreciate your enthusiam. I am the 99%.

But how about a general teach-in, spread across the country, to help people understand who their real enemy is, or why several hundreds of people are avoiding criminal investigations even in the face of overwhelming evidence of crimes?. How about a general teach-in to show people how to run cooperative business or employee-owned business, and ways they could create a way to fight these bastards beyond getting people hurt for no particularly good reason.

There are so many more ideas that that one. Maybe we ought to leave it in the history where it made sense.

Thank you for your work.
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