What is our fascination with war grounded in?

[Archae]

I mean, the most popular documentaries (like Ken Burns' "The Civil War") got huge ratings.

"Band Of Brothers," about a group of soldiers in WW2, got huge ratings.

Movies based on real war, like the one about a bomb-disposal unit in the Iraq War, won an Oscar and made quite a lot of money.

The biggest-selling movies are about intergalactic war.

Are we, as humans, hard-wired to actually enjoy war? To celebrate it?

[Confusious]

1. It's been celebrated for a long long time

It will take a long long time to go away.

Everyone was really cheery to go off to the civil war, until the first real battle.

Everyone was cheery to go off to World war one until trench warfare set in, which was the first month or so.

[Swamp Rat]

2. Man's idiocy?

Women do not appear to be as dumb, but I could be wrong. :shrug:

[Hama]

3. As Robert E. Lee said

It is well that war is so terrible - otherwise we would grow too fond of it.

[Journeyman]

4. War speeds things up and transforms us as no civil action ever could. . .

[Bragi]

16. Disagree totally

I think scientific and techno transformations associated with war most often happen because people in power refuse to invest the same high levels of society's resources and energy into constructive things as they do with war. They will spend on war; housing and education, not so much.

For example, if the money that was spent on the post-WW2 arms race and wars had been spent on health, housing and education, then the world and everyone in it would be transformed very much for the better, instead of what war has brought us.

I say this as someone who has read a lot of history, a lot of people writing on this subject. I disagree with the mainstream view (that Journeyman) which is that war results in scientific and technological advances. It doesn't, it just so happens that war is where those in power are prepared to spend on science and technology.

[Journeyman]

20. Your passion and proclaimed knowledge is admirable, but sadly misplaced. . .

My comment was not directed towards either scientific or technological advances, but rather the political and social upheaval that war engenders quicker and more profoundly than any term of peace, no matter how determined or dedicated society may be.

Consider, for example, the American Civil War. The institution of slavery was on its way out, and would have eventually been eradicated. No modern society exists with slavery at its core. So, much as Lincoln predicted, the institution would have eventually been abolished. But not in 1861, or anytime soon after that. It took war's upheaval to uproot that evil.

Abraham Lincoln could do nothing about slavery when inaugurated as President, but acquired immeasurably greater powers to affect society as Commander in Chief, which he did through the Emancipation Proclamation. But even there, consider how limited his power remained, since that Proclamation only concerns areas under Rebellion and could only be enforced in those areas occupied by Federal troops.

Another instance is the near abolishment of royal houses that follows the Great War, and the profound societal alterations caused by the War and attendant revolutions.

Going back to the Civil War, there was also the tremendous demographic upheaval it caused within the nation, as increasing numbers of rural people moved to the cities to feed the developing industrial concerns, a movement echoed after each major conflict over the next century. Each of these societal changes were in development prior to the war, and many were inevitable, but the conflicts sped up the process and accomplished changes unheard of before.

The changes wrought today, in this period of low intensity conflicts and trinitarian warfare, are quite different but no less profound. In each instance, the affected society is cast into turmoil and changes come both swift and complete.

It is these societal changes and political transformations, I believe, which draws peoples' interest. Technological changes and scientific advances are, of course, a part of this, but not foremost, or even the most profound. They too would happen whether war came or not, but war speeds them up same as it does the society which develops them. Of that, there's little doubt.

[cemaphonic]

5. War is God.

One of the most memorable quotes from Blood Meridian:
"It makes no difference what men think of war, said the judge. War endures. As well ask men what they think of stone. War was always here. Before man was, war waited for him. The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner. That is the way it was and will be....
War is the ultimate game because war is at last a forcing of the unity of existence. War is god."

Now the judge may be a vicious, cynical, evil bastard, and is probably either Satan or a Gnostic Archon to boot, but he does have a point. War is a big part of human culture throughout all recorded history (and via anthropology, prehistoric humans seem much the same). Our arts, religion, politics, legal systems, language, etc. are completely saturated with it, and always have been. It's not unknown among our primate cousins either, so I would guess it has something to do with being a tribal and territorial species.

[markpkessinger]

6. Not sure I would put "The Civil War" and "Band of Brothers" in the same category

I don't think I'm all that fascinated with war, per se. I certainly don't typically care for war movies. Ken Burns' "The Civil War," however, is really more of a historical documentary, and is as much about the personal, societal and cultural impact of that conflict as it is about the conflict itself. I should think anyone interested in American culture in any respect would be immensely interested in Burns' film.

[Prometheus Bound]

7. propaganda

[Golden Raisin]

8. Penis size, oil and

endless lucrative contracts for the Military/Industrial Complex.

[conspirator]

9. It all started with the war against the native indians to steal their land

And it never stopped since

[mmonk]

10. The animal brain most likely. That part hard wired

to see threats in others for survival we have not evolved out of. Sometimes it is useful (especially in self defense and proper analysis of a threat) and in the case of a backward violence loving society to get your way like we have, a detriment.

[stuntcat]

23. +1

(also we'll need an evolutionary leap to cooperate enough for all we need to do to get through this century without turning the world into Hell. just my humble opinion that part though.)

[Overseas]

11. It is a major profit center. The movie glamor is part of the sales job.

Glamorize the wars that were for solid principles to encourage people to enlist in those that were not.

Need to keep the multi-billion dollar enterprise going.

If peace were to seem too viable a choice, our country would lose billions of dollars in arms dealing.

We need to constantly reinforce that war is inevitable.

Sometimes we do need to respond to tyrants. But many times we are protecting the economic interests of major multinational corporations like big oil.

Even when a war was trumped up on false claims like the War on Iraq, and protested by millions around the world, it was still broadly promoted and glamorized with the disgusting "Shock & Awe" coverage on media as respected as CNN and the broadcast TV channels.

Even when the Bush Team pushed their false war forward, and had privatized military services to incompetent firms that could not even supply enough armor for their troops, and privatized contracting to firms that escalated our use of torture, we were unable to turn them out of office in 2004.

Even after the Bush Team allowed Bin Laden to escape from Afghanistan, and even knowing how their Afghan war crippled the Soviet Union, we have continued that war for years and years. Even as it is crippling our country and turning Afghans back to the Taliban. Billions of our tax dollars have been going to private military contractors every single month. Even as we talk about cutting more expenses we need for the poorest among us here at home.

It takes a lot of PR to keep the public believing war is a necessary evil that they should not question.

That PR has been very very successful if we can't even pull out more rapidly from Republican wars that are making us less secure and increasing the number of enemies we have and if we can only talk about cutting 100 billion from defense over 5 years -- only 20 billion per year -- when we are spending billions per month in Afghanistan right now.

Our legislators got all riled up about ACORN being accused of fraud and defunded them right away, while we are still dealing with military contractors actually convicted of fraud.
http://www.contractormisconduct.org/

[H2O Man]

12. Sex & Death.

I'm serious.

[Swede]

13. We probably sat around the campfires telling war stories since the dawn of mankind.

It's in the blood,so to speak.

[Codeine]

14. Because conflict is drama,

and no conflict is as immediate, easily visualized, and straightforward as war. Nobody wants to watch the Galactic Senate debate, we want to see X-Wings blow the shit out of TIE fighters.

[Diana9]

21. Exactly.

War is drama.

[WinkyDink]

15. Humans admire courage and bravery? This isn't exactly a new concept. (Hello, Iliad?)

[11 Bravo]

17. I'm not sure that I can explain this coherently. I abhor war, but ...

combat was the most exhilarating experience of my life.

[Archae]

18. On History International last night, they had a show about snipers.

One person they gave a lot of credit to, and celebrated, was a sniper in Fallujah who killed over a dozen insurgents.

They also profiled a Vietnam war sniper, who with his M1 semi-auto and a primitive night scope killed 16 NVA's with 16 shots.

Was the show interesting? Yes.
Exciting? Yes.

Informative? Lastly, yes.

[Posteritatis]

19. I enjoyed the hell out of Band of Brothers, but I don't have to enjoy or celebrate war to do so.

(Frankly, I think anyone who watches that series and fails to like war less as a result needs to spend some time examining their worldview.)

You're conflating two concepts that don't necessarily overlap there.

[Odin2005]

22. Chimps wage war against other chip troops for the hell of it. Make of that what you will.

[Forrest Greene]

24. from THE HOMERIC HYMN TO ARES

translation by Charles Boer
in "The Rag and Bone Shop of the Heart"


Hear me,
helper of mankind,
dispenser of youth's sweet courage,
beam down from up there
your gentle light
on our lives,
and your martial power,
so that I can shake off
cruel cowardice
from my head,
and diminish that deceptive rush
of my spirit, and restrain
that shrill voice in my heart
that provokes me
to enter the chilling din of battle.
You, happy god,
give me courage,
let me linger
in the safe laws of peace,
and thus escape
from battles with enemies
and the fate of a violent death.