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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 07:59 PM
Original message
'Baby Doc' Duvalier Back in Haiti
Edited on Sun Jan-16-11 08:19 PM by Cerridwen
'Baby Doc' Duvalier back in Haiti after long exile

46 mins ago
PORT-AU-PRINCE, Haiti Haitian national television says former dictator Jean-Claude "Baby Doc" Duvalier has returned to the country.

The stunning development caught the nation off-guard in a moment of political crisis. Duvalier landed on an Air France plane around 5:50 p.m. local time Sunday. He wore a dark suit and blue tie. He was greeted at the airport with hugs from supporters.

He was taken into an immigration office before customs. Duvalier fled into exile during a 1986 popular rebellion and has been living in Paris.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110116/ap_on_go_ot/cb_hait...

-------------------

Thanks to Hissyspit in LBN (edit for link to Hissyspit's thread)

-------------------

I don't know what to think anymore. It's like the world is spinning in reverse while the axis tilts.


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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. hmmmm
Wonder how that is going to play out?
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. As some in the other thread said,
I wonder who's behind this and why.

This doesn't make any sense to me.

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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. That is a very good question
I'm alarmed. Very alarmed.
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. As am I. Is this a condition of releasing the hold on aid to Haiti? n/t
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. I don't know. What a horrid thought.
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Yeah. My stomach lurched as I thought it.
If that does happen, what will US citizens' in the US do? Will we?

Okay. I'm taking off my tin-foil hat because this is going way beyond just giving me a headache at this point.

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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. The US. The US is behind every raping and pillaging of Haiti.
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Abq_Sarah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. So...you're saying
That President Obama is behind Duvalier's return to Haiti?

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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. His corporate masters are.
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Abq_Sarah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. I see
He has seekrit corporate masters who are pulling his strings.


Or is the reptilians living in underground caves in the southwest?
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #23
35. One species is called Gila Monster and if they could find a cave
Edited on Sun Jan-16-11 09:21 PM by Cerridwen
not totally wrecked by the tourists, yeah, they could be found in the caves. The 'little' bastards are scary but at least you know where you stand with them.

Gila Monster presuming wiki isn't too fringe for you.

edit for spelling
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mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #20
31. Don't forget the French either. There's a power vacuum to fill. nt
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
3. Please tell me this isn't so. So the US got their man back in. rec'd
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Hey, Catherina. Let me ask you what I just asked Solly.
Do you think this is in relation to the US hold on aid to Haiti? Might this be part of a bargain?

Okay. I may be sick just thinking that way.

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. That's not sick. The US wants to make sure they have a good grip
on the government before all that money is sent in.

It's not sick to entertain that thought. It's just using our experience and history and logical consequence.
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Thanks. Good points.
Well, not 'good' thoughts, but you know what I mean.

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. We're watching an ongoing crime.
:grr:

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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. Next question, how -or will- we respond?
Okay, it's rhetorical.

I already know the answer.

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #22
34. Imo, this *is* our response.
Unless we are to believe that Baby Doc has enough power to return to Haiti against US wishes where the vastly more popular Aristide does not. And I find that hard to believe.
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. EFerrari, please don't take this the wrong way...
I so hope you are wrong.

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. I understand. n/t
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 08:12 AM
Response to Reply #34
47. Exactly.

I do not believe this could happen without US countenance.
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #6
48. The sham elections in Haiti left the US so embarrassed that I think they
scrapped the bottom of the barrel and brought back Duvalier, the old friend they whisked out of Haiti before the people tore him to pieces.

Duvalier stole billions from the Haitian people. A few months ago he apologized for his *mistakes* but President Preval, another puppet, said if he returned to Haiti, he'd face prosecution.

US Aid is always a carrot.

Obviously this was cleared by the US otherwise he'd be too afraid of prosecution to return.

Tunisian Protests Move Hillary's Line on Democratic Reform

...

Today, U.S. policy in Haiti stands at a fork in the road.

One path away from the fork has been suggested by a draft report of a team from the Organization of American States that is trying to salvage Haiti's disputed November 28 presidential election. According to this proposal, Haiti's election commission would recalculate the preliminary results of the election so that a different two candidates would go to a run-off. If the U.S. backs this path, it would be backing an election in which nearly three-quarters of the Haitian electorate did not participate, either in protest at the exclusion of parties such as Fanmi Lavalas, the party of deposed former President Aristide, or because they were prevented from voting, or because they didn't see in any of the allowed candidates a realistic hope for addressing Haiti's problems.

Ratifying a recalculated result of this dubious election could lead to Tunisian-style protests in Haiti. Reuters notes Friday, reporting on a protest in which one Haitian was killed, that this happened "amid widespread concerns that an experts' report from the Organization of American States (OAS), which challenges the official results of Haiti's November 28 national elections, could spur fresh outbreaks of unrest."

The other path away from the fork would be to respond to the calls from Haitian civil society for a new election run by a new electoral council, a call recently supported by Representative Maxine Waters.

Some people in Washington say that a new election in Haiti would be too expensive. This argument is outrageously silly. The November election cost $30 million, a cost shared by the U.S. and other countries. The U.S. spends more than $30 million on the war in Afghanistan every three hours. Moreover, the next government in Haiti is expected to oversee $11 billion in reconstruction funds. A key means by which we can ensure that $11 billion will be well spent is "creating the space young people are demanding, to participate in public affairs and have a meaningful role in the decisions that shape their lives." $30 million is 0.27% of $11 billion. If a new election that seats a legitimate government saves 0.27% of that $11 billion from being wasted, the election will pay for itself.

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/01/15-0
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Webster Green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
9. The US kidnaps the elected leader, sends him into exile, now the strongman is back.
We have really fucked over Haiti.

What will Obama and Hillary have to say about this?

Not a fucking thing. It would be classified anyway.





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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
10. Anyone who denies that the US is behind this is delusional.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. why is that?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. I heard a reporter on Amy's show say (last week, on the "anniversary" segment)
Edited on Sun Jan-16-11 08:46 PM by EFerrari
that he'd was covering a meeting of the "donors" and they were discussion removing the president.

So, yeah, I agree. Our government is up to something in Haiti. Nobody does anything there without "our" permission.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. read up on the US's history of raping Haiti.
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Abq_Sarah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. I'm delusional
Because I don't think President Obama cut a deal to send Duvalier back to Haiti?

ROTFLMAO!
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Read up on Haiti's history.
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Abq_Sarah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. You might want to give me your sources
Since I'm not sure if mine are fringe enough.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #24
30. So, who changed Jefferson's Haiti policy?
I'd love to know. :)
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #24
36. Chomsky
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #36
42. Robertson, An Unbroken Agony
Edited on Sun Jan-16-11 10:44 PM by EFerrari
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/Unbr

An Unbroken Agony
Sep 13, 2007

Hue-Man Bookstore and Cafe
Randall Robinson talked about his book An Unbroken Agony: Haiti, from Revolution to the Kidnapping of a President, published by Basic Civitas. In his book Mr. Robinson covers the history of Haiti and the Haitian people from the arrival of Columbus in late 1492 to the ouster of President Aristide .. Read More
Randall Robinson talked about his book An Unbroken Agony: Haiti, from Revolution to the Kidnapping of a President, published by Basic Civitas. In his book Mr. Robinson covers the history of Haiti and the Haitian people from the arrival of Columbus in late 1492 to the ouster of President Aristide in 2004. He responded to questions from members of the audience.

1 hour, 30 minutes (transcript available)

Aristide and the Endless Revolution, must see, up in 6s part @ YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5U8zQ8x3hI&feature=rela...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGSiojsbm2g&feature=rela...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBAfU8gSCdA&feature=rela...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eY8ruHiGN2Q&feature=rela...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtF9ckl9zLE&feature=rela...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyZ-305kuIw&feature=rela...

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #24
43. One year after the earthquake, foreign help is actually hurting Haiti
By Alex Dupuy
Friday, January 7, 2011; 8:00 PM

snip

The objectives of the international community - the United States, Canada, and France; the United Nations; and financial institutions such as the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund - are quite another, and they're significantly more problematic. Their objectives and their policies first and foremost aim to benefit their own investors, farmers, manufacturers and non-governmental organizations (NGOs).

There is a dramatic power imbalance between the international community - under U.S. leadership - and Haiti. The former monopolizes economic and political power and calls all the shots. The Haitian state and the tiny but wealthy elite that rules the country also bear great responsibility for the abysmal conditions of the country before the earthquake, but they did not create those conditions alone. They did so in close partnership with foreign governments and international institutions long involved in Haitian affairs, the same ones that are now in charge of post-earthquake reconstruction. It is not surprising, then, that this unequal relationship is reflected in the Interim Haiti Recovery Commission (IHRC), with members drawn equally from the foreign community and Haiti, and co-chaired by Bill Clinton and Haitian Prime Minister Jean-Max Bellerive.

snip

One primary architect of the policy knows it wasn't a success. In testimony last March, former president Clinton said that compelling Haiti to cut tariffs on imported rice from the United States "may have been good for some of my farmers in Arkansas, but it has not worked . It was a mistake." Later he acknowledged that the policies have "failed everywhere been tried."

Yet, these are essentially the same policies that his IHRC is recommending. This obvious contradiction would boggle the mind only if one believed that members of the international community had the best interests of Haiti in mind rather than those of their own farmers, firms, NGOs and economies. For their part, the elites in Haiti who benefit from the status quo have no alternative to propose and are all too willing to point their finger at someone else. Whatever new government emerges from the recent, though flawed, elections will not change that basic reality.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...

"Alex Dupuy, a professor of sociology at Wesleyan University. His latest book is The Prophet and Power: Jean-Bertrand Aristide, the International Community, and Haiti."
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #24
58. nice ad hominem attack, nt.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #21
27. Obama is not in their history. what's your proof that he is behind this.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. US policy in Haiti will not likely change because Obama is in office. n/t
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. our policies got him out of the country.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. It would be a mistake, imo, to look at that event
as definitive. What happened after that? What is the through line?

And I really do mean, this isn't about Obama. This is about hundreds of years of US policy, and the accumulation of capital interests over that period.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #32
38. thanks for your feedback, i will be educating myself more on this topic
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. I had to start from scratch and not too long ago.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #10
41. +1
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
25. To catch up on Haiti, Prof John Bracey of UMass gave this talk
Edited on Sun Jan-16-11 09:02 PM by EFerrari
shortly after the earthquake. He covers a lot of ground for people who'd like a little back story. It's about 40 minutes. Sorry, no transcript.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJWOV6QUOys

/oops
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Matariki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
26. Oh hell. Unless he's been extradited and his stolen millions returned to Haiti
this is weird news.
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-11 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #26
33. At least. Scary at worst. n/t
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 12:37 AM
Response to Original message
44. Observers: Duvalier's return to Haiti puzzling
<snip>

``For him to return to Haiti at this time, can only mean that there was some kind of deal going down with the Haitian government,'' said Alex Dupuy, a longtime Haiti scholar at Wesleyan University, adding that Duvalier should be arrested for crimes committed while he was president.

Dupuy and others noted that the timing of Duvalier's return was particularly noteworthy -- something President Ren Prval could have engineered as his term comes to an end. After the disputed Nov. 28 presidential elections, the Organization of American States issued a report that showed that government-backed candidate Jude Clestin did not get enough votes to be included in a runoff.

<snip>

`It was a low-level campaign to make him acceptable again to a growing segment of the population,'' said McCalla, a political strategist. ``The young people have just witnessed coups d'etat and dire poverty. How they should react to his presence should be quite interesting.''
Duvalier's return brought mixed feelings among South Florida Haitians at a time when the homeland is fraught with uncertainty.

``Now that Haiti is in such a terrible situation, some people might see him as some sort of liberator -- he embodies an era of relative peace and quiet, though things were not perfect,'' said Martine Theodore, of Haitian Women of Miami. ``However, Duvalier's regime brings a lot of fear and emotional aspects to the equation that we may not need right now.''


Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/01/17/2019547/observers...


Just an update before I head off to bed.

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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 03:57 AM
Response to Original message
45. A year-long vacuum of power is irresistable.. Not surprised he showed up
It's so sad that a year later things are still as awful as day-two :(
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #45
55. ^^^^^This. I agree with all you've written. :(
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #45
57. The problem is, that vacuum isn't really a vacuum.
Haiti's central government looks (and is) weak because we ousted Aristide and that is the way our government has wanted it.

Since the quake, the investors have been ruling viw Bill Clinton and the IHRC -- which has sidelined Haitians from most participation, let alone policy setting. The committee is not accountable to the voters of Haiti.

Now, apparently, they've decided they want a strongman they can more or less count on. And the condition of the Haitian people isn't even a blip on their radar screen. What rapes, what cholera, what hunger, what homelessness.





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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 08:00 AM
Response to Original message
46. kick
Good information in this thread.


I've slept, got some errands done...and I'm still appalled.
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #46
53. As am I.
Good morning, Solly. I'm late up this morning so still working on coffee. It's not quite 9am local time. I think I need a bleery-eyed, morning smiley. :)

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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
49. kick.
Lots of good info in here.
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #49
54. I've added an update from this morning's news in this thread and
started another thread with the same info for those who're watching this.

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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
50. This sounds bad.
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #50
56. I'm trying to keep an eye out for updates. There's one in this thread
and I started another thread with the updated info.

I agree with you. I don't like this a bit. Let's hope you and I are both wrong.

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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
51. Duvalier Meets With Advisers as Haiti Holds Its Breath
Edited on Mon Jan-17-11 10:46 AM by Cerridwen
MEXICO CITY Haitis former dictator, Jean-Claude Duvalier, huddled with his advisers at a Port-au-Prince hotel on Monday, a day after his stunning return to the country he ruled for almost 15 years, as the nation waited for his next move.

Supporters said Mr. Duvalier, who is known as Baby Doc, was expected to speak to reporters sometime during the day.

The sudden appearance of Mr. Duvalier, 59, who ruled Haiti with brutality and corruption before he was forced to flee the country in 1986, threatened to further convulse a country that is struggling to recover from the earthquake, a lingering cholera epidemic and the political uncertainty stemming from the contested presidential election late last year.

The capital was calm on Monday. Mr. Duvaliers supporters chanted and cheered his arrival at the Karibe Hotel. Other Haitians appeared to be as surprised as everybody else at the turn of events and waited to see if demonstrations would erupt.

<snip to more at link>


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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
52. That motherfucker!
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
59. k&r nt
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