"The Poor in the US don't know what real poverty is"

[Bettie]

OR rather, they aren't poor enough.

I'm on a message board for moms and whenever the topic turns to OWS or the economy, they start in on how being poor is really pretty good and people need to just suck it up. "If you can't make ends meet, get a couple of part time jobs." or "Oh, there are jobs out there, people are just to lazy to apply for them." and a host of other simply asinine things.

It makes me so angry when these women (who also talk about their collections of expensive purses and such) and frustrated that these are also the "christian" women.

It also shows me what is really wrong with this country...it seems that the "us" against "them" meme has really taken in some circles. Except the "them", are our neighbors, our relatives, our friends.

Any ideas on how to counter statements like these? Or commiseration on being around stupid people?

There are also a number of bright, sweet, liberal women too, who make me feel hopeful.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

1. It's clear to me that stupidity doesn't differentiate by gender.

Some of the biggest idiots I've ever encountered, are female. X or Y chromosome, it doesn't much matter.

On how to change their mind: don't bother. There's no such thing as reasoning with right wingnuts. These are people that:

1) Have ZERO intellectual curiosity;
2) Worship punitive authority - they love it!;
3) Adore the idea of a world of 'us versus them;'
4) Would cut off their nose to spite their face, and destroy the world for themselves and their own kids in exchange for the feeling that they belong to a punitive, right wing, authoritarian 'club' of sorts.

GOPers fit the above perfectly.

I think the OccupyWallStreet folks have the right idea.

Reasoning? Wasted energy.

[Hutzpa]

7. Bravo!

[nichomachus]

9. Definitely Bravo!

[Ship of Fools]

2. I stared my conservative Repub stepdaughter in the eye and said

slowly and very clearly: It could very well be you. She backed down a little, anyway ...

[LonePirate]

3. In this wealthy country, no American should ever need to know first hand what poverty is.

There is no excuse for poverty's existence or its widespread existence at the very least. Laziness is not the cause of poverty in this country. The lack of access to opportunities and to education is the cause.

[Scuba]

5. +1

[dembotoz]

21. 100 percent agreement

this is america
it is not somalia
or at least not yet.....

[Scuba]

4. There's a family of five living in a Buick down the block. They disagree. n/t

[PETRUS]

6. First of all

There are 4.6 applicants for every 1 job opening. Ask your acquaintances to do the math.

Next, let's put aside the question of whether or not living below the poverty line represents true hardship (it does, but bear with me). One hopes we will remember that our nation purports to have democratic ideals but the weight that the very wealthy can throw around in the economic and political field has resulted in a set of policies that do not represent the will of the people, or "promote the general welfare" (which the constitution states as an explicit purpose our union).

There is an imbalance of power related to property ownership, and it is decidedly undemocratic. Even if everyone had a job, a home, food to eat, etc., it would still be dangerous to have so much influence is in the hands of a minority.

[HughBeaumont]

8. Well, come ON! Unless you eat cockroaches and live in a mud hovel, you're livin' the life of RILEY!

What do you call an obviously well-off person who takes it upon themselves to define a scale of what poverty SHOULD be for the purpose of turning it into a one-downing dick-swinging contest?

An ASSHOLE.

[cutlassmama]

10. +1

[Fuzz]

11. 98% of the 99 have refrigerators. Those food chilling, ungrateful bastards.

[Doc_Technical]

12. "Lucky Duckies"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucky_duckies

http://underthemountainbunker.com/2011/09/10/40000-more... /

[Arkansas Granny]

13. Just knowing that there are people who have it worse off than you doesn't

make poverty in the US any easier to bear. If you look long enough, you can always find someone in a more dire predicament than you. That still doesn't make your situation good.

[kctim]

14. Us against them

has been around ever since the first man decided he wanted to take from another man.
Some people resent doing it, some justify doing it.
This argument will always be around.

[mod mom]

15. My son's US History book told of the "Social Gospel movement" in the late 1800s

that preached salvation through service to the poor. Today's mega churches preach the antithesis. Middle and Upper class greedy types flock to these churches to justify their neglect of the poor based on the "they have to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps" falsehood-imho. I had a friend who lost her job as a state director and was barely getting by by low income rental income. She told me how her church pastor still expected her to tithe at the same level as when she had a high paying job. I could not understand why she wouldn't question this from a pastor. It's brain washing!

[nobodyspecial]

47. And I'm sure the pastor assured her

that if she planted her seed, it will surely grow. I hate those gospel of prosperity preachers. They act like giving to the church is an investment that always pays out. But, like any form of gambling, they never say don't bet more than you can afford to lose.

[xmas74]

54. My aunt is a firm believer of prosperity doctrine.

She's even gone as far as stating that the church I attend isn't a "real" church and that means I'll be damned for eternity. (I'm a Methodist; she's one of the just out of the storefront churches.)

[Lilyhoney]

16. I had to leave the Mom forum I was involved with.

Before I left I wanted to start a thread telling them that they should not breed. Instead of doing that, I just stopped going there. Every day I went there, I left feeling angry and disconnected. Especially because of some of the users were very vocal and dominated the threads. I felt myself wanting to be mean to them. But that is not me. Or at least not a part of me I like to give in to.

One poster in particular would always bash those who get government assistance, because of course it is always a scam run by those who don't deserve it because they are lazy good for nothings. She went on to assure everyone that her and her husband made sure that they would never be in that position to need assistance. Then one day something happened to her family that changed her world for ever. I won't go into details, but the local government came out to help, the media got involved, the local community came out to help, women on the forum created a fund to donate to for her. I felt awful for her and her family, as I would not want her situation to happen to me or my family. Yet, that mean part of me wanted to tell her that she needs to re-pay the cost of government help, pay the volunteers that helped and not accept the charity from the forum fund that was collected.

I found it better for me to just leave.

We have a parents forum here at DU, but it is not very active. Perhaps you and I can help to give it some activity.


Lilyhoney

[EdMaven]

18. Do you know if her family ever attempted to pay back the aid?

It seems that many folks like that make an exception for people who "truly need the help" -- which always includes themselves.

[Lilyhoney]

25. I don't know if there was any financial restitution.

From what I got to know about her, I will say probably not.

[ejpoeta]

19. that's the thing. somehow it's different when it's YOU. None of us can do it alone.

Whether you get help from your family or you get help from assistance, we all need help from someone. I have heard it myself. From my own family. But I have been so poor that we couldn't afford to fix our situation and we couldn't afford to leave either. Freezing in our singlewide trailer. Doing everything we could to make it better but we just seeped all the heat out in the winter. We were on assistance. We had a little girl and got HEAP and food stamps and medicaid. My husband worked. But it was hard. His truck would break down and he'd be out of work for a week while he tried to fix it. I would have worked, but by the time I paid a sitter and gas and such, it would cost me more than I would make to get a job.

I want help to be there for people. I had family to help me. We lost everything in a fire because our singlewide had bad electrical I guess. We had help. And the Red Cross helped us get clothes. And family helped us with furniture and getting a new place to put here. We were lucky. And I will never forget all the help that we have gotten over the years. We do what we can to help others individually. But I also make sure that when my family spouts off they know that they are talking about me too. They will say it's different for some reason. But I say, no it isn't. When you say all those things, you think of me. Because you are saying it to me.


edited for a double negative.

[Lilyhoney]

29. I hear you loud and clear.

I want help to be there for everyone when they need it, and I am thankful for all the help I have received.



Lilyhoney

[The Doctor.]

23. You should have.

These people, when left to their own devices, will rationalize their needs while discrediting those of others. The only way to grant them a sliver of introspection is to shove their face into their own crap. If there's even one honest bone in them, they'll feel the shame.

[Lilyhoney]

28. I am sure she would have rationalized the help by saying

that finally her taxes have gone to something good, instead of paying for all the low-lives on government assistance.

I do like the way you think.


Lilyhoney

[Bettie]

34. I'm stubborn, they can't chase me out

I refuse to let them spew their hate without someone to object, to refuse to accept the vitriol without objection.

I'm stubborn that way, mulish.

But I understand....there are days when I'd rather walk away altogether.

I am amazed though that mothers, people raising children would espouse ideas that will make the world a worse place for their own kids to live.

I guess I'm also idealistic. How can a mother of daughters advocate taking their reproductive rights away? How can a mother of any child advocate making corporations ascendant over their rights? I just do not understand that mind set.

[Odin2005]

56. I have a theory on why those forums would be dominated by wing-nuts.

The types of places that tend to be very conservative tend to be isolated rural areas and outer suburbs and exurbs, the kind of places where face-to-face networking between parents is impossible.

But that's just a hypothesis. I'm a single guy with no kids, so I really don't have a clue about the people on such forums, LOL!

[OneGrassRoot]

17. I'm responding in one of two ways:

depending upon my mood at the time.


If I'm disgusted with the puritanical, hypocritical, heartless right-wingers, I'll simply say: "Get well soon." They seem to be afflicted with a disease, imho.


When I have more patience, I'm posting this, especially in response to the 53%'er types who brag about working three jobs and barely making ends meet, or their 70-year-old mom doing the same.





Here's a shorter version:

[Tsiyu]

30. +100000000000000000000 and so on

[OneGrassRoot]

31. ...

Hi, Stranger!

[Tsiyu]

35. Back atcha, Sister

[Bettie]

32. That is AWESOME!

Seriously, that is wonderful. Going to save that to put on posts when I'm tired of the stupid.

[OneGrassRoot]

38. Replying with "I'm tired of the stupid" works, too!!!

[Hutzpa]

20. Ignorant comment such as that is why the 1%

has gotten away with all the cash.

[GreenPartyVoter]

22. There are some who do. We have a lot of homeless people, and many who are

just barely housed in poor neighborhoods that utterly derelict.

Maybe showing these people pictures or stories about our own poor would wake them up?

[hobbit709]

24. People who make statements like that are clueless about the real world.

[sinkingfeeling]

26. Dare them to feed their families for a week on $50 a week or to live on what an

average minimum-wage earner does. Or just buy them a copy of 'Nickel and Dimed' and dare them to read and re-enact it.

[Taitertots]

40. How could they without moving out of their house on the first day? n/t

[lumberjack_jeff]

27. In the richest country in the world, they shouldn't. n/t

[RegieRocker]

33. I remember a time here on DU members were stating that

very same thing. It was about the poor in Egypt vs poor in US of A.

[CTyankee]

39. It wasn't so long ago, IIRC.

I think times have changed and DUers have changed with them. We have all had a wake up call.

[RegieRocker]

49. I hope so.

[Taitertots]

36. The counter is... "Too lazy? They all had jobs before Bush took office"

Also... "All the people who are not trying to get jobs are not counted in the unemployment figures."

To the people who think they should get part time jobs... "If they could get jobs than there wouldn't be any problem. We are in an economic crisis because the jobs don't exist".

[Arugula Latte]

37. Religion tends to train people to accept and swallow stuff that doesn't make any sense.

Sounds like that's what's happened here.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

41. As you did it unto the least of these, so also you did it unto me.

.....sigh........


And I'm not a christian.

[icymist]

42. Only rich people talk like that. n/t

[lunatica]

43. It's always the victims' fault for being a victim

If something bad happens to you it's because you must deserve it.

[coalition_unwilling]

44. 400 American families control $1.53 trillion (yes, trillion). Meanwhile,

44 million Americans are currently receiving food stamps and some 46-48 million Americans lack any health insurance whatsoever. You might share those statistics with the Moms. Ask them whether they consider such a situation 'moral' and if so, why?

N.B. It's estimated that 3 million American children go to bed hungry each night nowadays. Again, 400 American families control $1.53 trillion in wealth. I would think those statistics would offend any mother. Or do those rightwing Moms blame the children for being hungry?

[Empowerer]

45. This reminds me of something Thurgood Marshall once said ...

"You know, I used to be amazed at people who would say that, 'The poorest Negro kid in the South was better off than the kid in South Africa.' So what! We are not in South Africa.! We are here!"

http://www.thurgoodmarshall.com/speeches/equality_speec...

[SkyDaddy7]

46. Christians in America are the classic "US" vs "THEM"

They make EVERYTHING into an "US" vs "THEM" scenario...Honestly, that is what religion, especially Christianity, teaches people! They are always playing the victim & creating boogeymen like abortion (Liberals Love to get Abortions as birth control...We must save the babies!), same sex marriage (The GAY AGENDA...They are hell bent on destroying the Christian Family in America & the US Military!), Evolution in Public Schools (Teaching kids they come from monkeys & have no morals!) & they won't let the poor kids pray after being told they came from monkeys...Most American Christians see everything in life as US vs THEM!

[markpkessinger]

48. You might remind the "Christians" on that board . . .

. . . that nowhere in the Gospels does Jesus respond to the poor by telling them to "get a job."

[Rex]

50. Bring them by my small town.

I'll introduce them to poverty the likes of which they never dreamed of. Plywood walls, no running water, dirt floors and all the illnesses you could want from abject poverty.

[Art_from_Ark]

53. Where is your town?

Appalachia? The Delta country? Pine Ridge Reservation? Starr County, Texas?

[quaker bill]

51. when you are hungry

and truly do not know where your next meal is coming from, having indoor plumbing is no longer all that important. People confuse having rent to own furniture and a buy here pay here over priced rust bucket with "living better". Trust me, it isn't.

If you don't think the rust buckets are over priced, go to one of these dealers with cash. (I have done this a few times to get a second "local trips only" vehicle) You can get the very best one on the lot, usually at 50+ percent off.

[JuniperLea]

52. I'm sure Jesus told his disciples to check to be sure the people were really hungry...

Before passing out fishes and loaves.

Yeah, I'm sick of my "Christian" cousins talking about "lazy moochers" and stupid crap like that. I tell them that even REAL lazy moochers have a need... something is causing them to be that way, and perhaps Jesus has a lesson for them as well... a lesson that won't be taught because YOU decided to ignore what Jesus taught when YOU decided to judge these people.

[yoyossarian]

55. The RICH in the US don't know what poverty is!!!

And that's the real problem.

I disagree with an early commentor who thought NO ONE should have to experience
poverty. I for one think EVERYONE should experience it for a month or so; then
the spoiled amongst us wouldn't be able to divide us so easily.

I have little patience for spoiled people, people who've never felt the cold
cutting to the bone when they're trying to sleep, who've never felt REAL hunger
and experienced the thoughtless derision and neglect of their fellow human beings;
such experience FORCES a person to feel empathy for the suffering of others.

Suffering is good for the soul, actually... at least, a limited amount of it is.

After a certain point though, suffering simply slowly kills people, inside and out.

[gkhouston]

57. How is it that "the poor in the US don't know what real poverty is",

yet the well-off do? When have they been impoverished, other than in spirit and imagination?

[1StrongBlackMan]

58. I frequently post comments ....

to my local Arizona newspaper's BB.

There are a couple of frequent posters ... They are unemployed, receiving Unemployment Compensation and spout Rightwing teapartier crap about "free loaders" and people "working the system."

My response to their posts is usually ... "So ... How is your job search coming?"

Surprisingly, they never respond. But it is my sincere wish that they would realize/recognize tet they are them that they criticize.