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HipChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 08:32 AM
Original message
Boss orders worker to stop giving CPR to co-worker and get back to work,co-worker dies..


Boss Told Me To Stop Giving Dying Co-Worker CPR, Says Service Rep
http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2011/10/14/woman-told-to-s... |main5|dl14|sec1_lnk3|104571&a_dgi=aolshare_facebook

Last month, a Time Warner Cable customer service rep died at her desk.After any unexpected death, people searched for answers, explanations, someone to blame. But in this case, there may have actually been something foul afoot. A local news station reports that after a co-worker began giving CPR to 67-year-old Julia Nelson, a supervisor allegedly told her to stop and "get back on the phone and take care of customers.


Nelson slumped at her desk at the Time Warner Call Center in Garfield Heights, Ohio, and wasn't breathing by the time paramedics arrived. But before that happened, a co-worker rushed over and began administering CPR, the woman told WOIO, only to be asked to stop. Employees at the scene have confirmed this report. The woman was also told later by another supervisor that she could be "held liable if something goes wrong."


Ohio has a "Good Samaritan" law on the books, however, which protects bystanders who provide emergency aid from being sued for unintentional injury or wrongful death. Thanks to this legal immunity, many employees have used CPR to save co-workers lives without any risk to themselves. Last year, two co-workers resuscitated 55-year-old Brenda Halliburton after she collapsed at her desk at American Baptist Churches. One performed CPR, while the other gave her a jolt with an Automated External Defibrillator. In July, Alex Molina saw his co-worker at Yuma Proving Grounds slumped in his carseat. Thinking he was sleeping, Molina pulled over to give him a joking scare, but ended up giving him CPR until the paramedics arrived.


Unfortunately, Nelson didn't receive similar care.Time Warner released a statement, denying any wrongdoing: "Time Warner responded appropriately to a medical emergency. Our company has procedures in place to respond to emergencies. We are saddened by the loss of one of our employees who was a co-worker and a friend. Our thoughts are with the family during this difficult time."
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
1. OMG
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
2. I wonder if that supervisor could be held criminally liable...
Disgusting POS.
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MedicalAdmin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #2
25. They should be sued.
Once you start CPR you do not stop until relieved. Period. To do so will result in death.

The woman who stopped cannot be held liable because she was threatened. The supervisor had the power and misused it and a woman died. Sue the fuckers.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #25
29. Of course the co-worker should not be held liable...
They were cooercively removed from their attempts by that supervisor. Heavens. Did you really somehow misunderstand me to be suggesting the coworker was liable? Absolutely not! :shrug:
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ArcticFox Donating Member (654 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. Legally, the employee is probably liable
But suing her would be completely stupid, from moral and public relations perspectives. Not to mention the company's pockets are deep enough to satisfy any judgment.
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idiotgardener Donating Member (479 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #32
46. The article says otherwise, so what are you basing that on? (nt)
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MedicalAdmin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #32
74. Sorry. Not liable.
First they are covers under good sam laws.

Second, it didn't occur in a public space and the company assumed liability the second they interfered with CPR.
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TheMadMonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-11 05:49 AM
Response to Reply #74
107. If they carry a current First Aid certificate then unfortunately they...
...may be held liable.

Once they begin CPR, a first aider can only stop if exhausted, relieved by another (they may remain legally responsible depending on qualifications), or if a more competent authority TELLS the first aider they are assuming responsibilty. This is when the paramedic says, "I've got it mate." not when the ambulance pulls up.


Once a person has a piece of paper saying they have qualifications, Good Samaritan Laws do not give the same protection that they do to someone who is "legally ignorant".
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MedicalAdmin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-11 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #107
112. True.
But the majority of folks don't have any CPR training (current) and of those who do, the vast majority don't have that certificate, but rather a lesser class. Generally speaking if your training took an evening rather than a weekend, you don't have that liability because you don't have that training.

I am conflicted on this one. I wouldn't have stopped but we don't know the womans circumstances or the job situation. And on private property, a supervisor assumed control of the situation and therefore the liability. This situation is fucked up in so many ways and directions. It's just sad.

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Saving Hawaii Donating Member (87 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-17-11 02:47 AM
Response to Reply #107
120. The CPR card doesn't remove Good Samaritan protections
Edited on Mon Oct-17-11 02:47 AM by Saving Hawaii
They teach you the basic rules of CPR but there's no legal force holding you to those rules. You're going to win any court case claiming that you breached some supposed obligation that you never agreed to. An EMT or a Paramedic has a duty to act. Somebody who went through Red Cross CPR training doesn't.

Many of the people who initiate CPR aren't qualified anyways and many card-carrying CPR trainees are too afraid to actually jump into action. It's not a hard skill either. Aim directly between the nipples and 'push hard and push fast'. It's that simple. They give you a bunch of extra mumbo-jumbo in the CPR classes but if you can just 'push hard and push fast' you're doing it right.

And anyways, who tries to squeeze blood from an onion? What kind of lawyer is gonna sue somebody who works at a call center for everything they're worth? Really?
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TheMadMonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-17-11 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #120
124. It may well be different in the US, but here in Australia, once a certificated...
...first aider begins CPR they ARE legally liable until exhausted, relieved, or the patient's head falls off. They can't be held liable for not beginning, but can be for stopping early.

This is why several of my instructors have suggested to those taking the course solely for their own peace of mind, to let their qualifications lapse, restoring them to full Good Samaritan immunity.


Who? Too bloody many.
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MedicalAdmin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #29
73. I was agreeing with you. Sorry if I didn't phrase it better. N/t
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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #25
41. Until relieved, or exhausted, or it is obviously futile.
I can't imagine why a supervisor did this. I wonder how he would feel if NO ONE came to his assistance when he was ill or hurt. I agree: the super should be sued for interfering in the attempt to save her life.
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COLGATE4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #2
26. Not criminally, but the estate has a great shot at a wrongful death
suit against the Supervisor.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. If someone were to forcibly halt a EMT's rescucitation efforts
on someone who later died, I do believe there would be criminal charges brought. I don't see this as greatly different. The supervisor's obstruction halted all life saving efforts to an individual. Yes, certainly civilly liable, but I do think there might be criminal charges that could be brought, depending on the jurisdiction.
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NotThisTime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #2
44. I hope so, the employee who stopped the CPR will have to live with this the rest of her life
while the other employee died, this POS supervisor ought to be jailed.
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Saving Hawaii Donating Member (87 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #44
76. Had some dickwad supervisor for FedEx yell at me to stop helping a seizure patient once
Never even bothered to tell the supervisor that my other job was working as an EMT. I just ignored her. When the fire engine arrived I walked over to the bathroom, washed some blood off my hands, and walked out the door and never came back.

I was about ready to quit anyways. The whole place seemed like an out of control circus. I'd been caught up in two accidents that weren't my fault, been shocked by faulty equipment, was being told by my supervisors to throw almost every package 20-30 feet (hey kids, I'm the grinch who ruined your Christmas presents!), and had spent most of my time trying to teach whoever I worked with how to lift things so they didn't hurt their backs (FedEx didn't teach them anything).
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cyglet Donating Member (256 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #76
78. Fedex is a nonunion hellhole
...doesn't care about anyone. Ship with union UPS or USPS, please.
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Saving Hawaii Donating Member (87 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #78
85. Agreed! As a former employee for both UPS and FedEx, I would never ship a package with FedEx
FedEx has ZERO respect for their customers or employees. As far as FedEx is concerned it's all about handling volume. If they don't hire enough employees to handle that volume, well then the customers are going to get crappy service. I spent well over a year doing dock-work. When I started working for FedEx I was absolutely amazed by what I say. I kid you not, I literally was told to throw almost every customer's package 20-30 feet. I have no idea how many Christmas presents I ruined.

If you care about what you're sending to someone else, ship it UPS or USPS. Having worked at UPS and FedEx, I would never ship FedEx. They are abusive towards their workers and their customers. "But they're cheaper". No shit Sherlock. They don't give a shit about what you're sending to a loved one. They treat it like crap and make sure the mangled wreckage gets there. Of course "it's cheaper".

I'm planning a post to talk about what I saw at FedEx (I worked there at the same time I worked at UPS), but for now... all I can say is that the difference was jaw-dropping.
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cyglet Donating Member (256 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #85
91. Everyone throws packages
and I work for USPS. Pack everything like it's going through World War III. I think most of us try to not throw the fragile ones, but they're thrown into hampers at the very least. I've not worked at the processing plants, so I can't say what happens there.

I remember FedEx used to have "contractors" driving around rental vehicles. I think they've since stopped this, but, really, don't you WANT to have vehicles with advertising on the sides?

I've never heard anything good about working at FedEx.
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Saving Hawaii Donating Member (87 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-17-11 02:37 AM
Response to Reply #91
116. Not like FedEx
I worked a good year for UPS as an unloader. Can safely say that I very rarely threw any packages. Air freight is a different story. All of that stuff gets thrown about 5 ft. At least at my facility we didn't really have much issue with throwing though. The unloaders can't. The sorters don't bother. The box liners throw packages a foot or two sometimes, but those were well-aimed and gentle shots. I haven't done much preloading but I'm guessing that the preloaders don't throw either (given the nature of that job). I realize that different facilities may have different equipment that makes throwing a little more common, but it was pretty dang rare in my facility.

The FedEx facility I worked at was something completely different. We weren't tossing packages a foot or two onto a belt, we were giving half of them baseball throws for 20 or 30 feet. I wish I'd realized how completely insane it was at the time and brought in a camera to document what we were being told to do. Serious throws for almost every package. The first 10' of a trailer we could get the belts to, but usually the first 10' was empty anyways. We were doing 'as far as you could' throws on almost every package. It was completely nuts.
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Saving Hawaii Donating Member (87 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-17-11 02:39 AM
Response to Reply #91
118. FedEx was probably the worst job I've ever had. They treated the workers like absolute crap.
Dairy Queen gave me more respect.
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blackbart99 Donating Member (421 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-11 06:26 AM
Response to Reply #85
110. Where were working for fedex?
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Saving Hawaii Donating Member (87 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-17-11 02:38 AM
Response to Reply #110
117. PNW
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Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #2
63. Absolutely. This is criminal negligence.
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Brickbat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
3. It shows a lot about how so many people have lost the ability to think for themselves because they
live in fear of losing their jobs. That poor woman is going to live with that for a long time.
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Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-11 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #3
115. No - the woman was doing the right thing. The idiot supervisor is the one who lives with it.
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Exilednight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 08:36 AM
Response to Original message
4. WOW!.... If there were no better example of corporate greed vs a person's life. n/t
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nebenaube Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 08:36 AM
Response to Original message
5. geez
They would have had to fire me.
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HipChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Me too...

This story is beyond disgusting...
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Yea, me too.
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #5
52. Yes, me too--and this is what OWS is really all about...
that so many people have become so cowed and beaten down by the corporatocracy they will follow a clearly immoral order, not only in the military but in civilian life. If it isn't specifically your job to save a person's life, then you don't do it? WTF???
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 08:41 AM
Response to Original message
8. I'd have told the supervisor to
fuck off and go get the defibrillator. That's what I'd have done.
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luckyleftyme2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. I second THAT

supervisor "KISS MY GRITS"
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HipChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #8
16. Did you see the part where they said the defibrillator was kept behind a locked door, and the only
person with a key was not in the building at the time...how fucked up is that..

" a heart defibrillator was right down the hall. Hanging on the wall of the first aid room.

One problem. The door was locked. And we're told the only person who had the key was out of the building.

We've been in contact with Garfield Police. Chief Robert Sackett says they are reviewing the incident"

http://www.woio.com/story/15681533/time-warner-workers-...
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #16
21. I didn't see that. Amazing!
It's a lot of stupid out there...
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XanaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #16
30. They're supposed to be easily accessible
and marked with signage. Wow another reason to hate T-W cable.
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cui bono Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #30
102. I can give you one more reason...
Edited on Sat Oct-15-11 11:59 PM by cui bono
Obviously my reason below is no where near as disturbing as getting someone killed but it's another reason...

Long story short, I was going to get charged for service for 2 weeks after I canceled because the TW supervisor decided I was going to steal it anyway since they couldn't send a service tech out to physically disconnect it. So he was accusing me of being a thief in the future and therefore would charge me for something I was not getting. I have yet to write TW a letter about this.

I'm working in NYC for a few months and called from here to cancel my cable in L.A. Had been wanting to cancel for some time and of course this was the time to do it. The "customer service" rep told me that since I would still have the box and they couldn't get a service tech out for another 2 weeks I would be charged for service until the service rep disconnected the line. Or I had to return the box before in order to avoid being charged for service. I said no, they could charge me for another day or two but they couldn't charge me because they were unable to come out. When I have called for new service connection they are out within a few days so why couldn't they disconnect in same time period? I said I was in NYC so they could charge me for the box and refund me when I returned it but I was not going to continue paying for the service.

Plus I said when I was late on my bill they had no problem disconnecting it by a certain date. So the supervisor tells me that the line is still live and the block the box and even if I return the box and they don't disconnect it I could connect the cable and have service. So I said then what difference does it make if they come out or not? Even if I had returned the box I could still have cable. He said because then he would know I made the effort to be honest. But if I didn't return the box then he said I was going to disconnect the box and connect the live wire and STEAL CABLE. HE ACCUSED ME OF BEING A FUTURE THIEF AND THAT'S WHY HE WAS GOING TO CHARGE ME FOR THE SERVICE I COULDN'T GET ANYWAY SINCE I AM ACROSS THE COUNTRY!!!

I then called back to downgrade the service so that if they did charge me and I didn't have the time to fight them on it it would only be around $8.00. The new person I got said that what the other person and supervisor had both told me was ridiculous and she was canceling the service as of that moment and I would not be charged anything more as of that moment. Go figure.

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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #16
53. Oh shit...if THAT isn't the icing on the cake:
"a heart defibrillator was right down the hall. Hanging on the wall of the first aid room.
One problem. The door was locked. And we're told the only person who had the key was out of the building."


There really are no limits to human stupidity, especially when it escalates into corporate stupidity.

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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #16
70. wow
:wtf: :grr:
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saras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-17-11 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #16
125. I bet they had a fire axe. So much for the locked door.
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CanonRay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
9. I'm sure a corporation is "saddened"
after all, they're people, too!
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. No, not yet, not until Texas
executes one!!! (Which will never happen).
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classof56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
11. Wonder if the company had a life insurance policy on Ms. Nelson?
You know...the kind where they're the beneficiary? Not to mention, this woman was 67 and still working? This is wrong on so many levels but sadly could be the wave of the future if republicons have their way. Enough blame and shame to go around, but kudos to the coworker who stepped in to help. And how nice that T-W's thoughts are with the family during this difficult time. Yeah, they're all heart!

Tired Old Cynic
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RandiFan1290 Donating Member (721 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #11
23. That was my first thought
about the life insurance
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Fuddnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #23
96. I wondered if the supervisor was next in line for a promotion to her job.
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sakabatou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
13. What evil bastards, especially that supervisor!
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
14. That is one sick supervisor
:puke:
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Glimmer of Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 08:54 AM
Response to Original message
15. What an awful person.
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Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 08:57 AM
Response to Original message
17. That's awful.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 08:57 AM
Response to Original message
18. i'd like to think that the supe will be haunted by that act --
but i'm too cynical for that.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. Sociopaths cannot feel guilt or remorse.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 09:02 AM
Response to Original message
19. Sociopaths run things n ow. UGH!
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #19
34. Ain't no accident.....

In Capitalism scum really does rise to the top.
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NutmegYankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
22. "Our company has procedures in place to respond to emergencies"
What the fuck does that mean? I could have a procedure that requires that the supervisor shoot the heart attack victim so the others can go back to work. That would technically be a "procedure in place". I'm getting tired of this false sympathy and BS rhetoric. You want to demonstrate that you actually care? Release the name of the supervisor to the public so they can become Persona non grata.

We need to banish these monsters from society.
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Buns_of_Fire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #22
65. "The Book" has largely replaced "The Brain" in many large corporations.
And given that "The Book" is all-too-often written by people who don't know what the hell they're talking about... :argh:
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varelse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #65
90. Yes, and apparently "the Heart"
doesn't even exist any more. Ugh.

Shades of the Triangle Shirtwaist fire.
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Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
24. I hope the rest of the "employees" take him to the alley to "show him something" nt
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
27. That's just sick.
I hope the worker goes public with all the details.
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
31. not sure about ohio's good samaritan law, but abandoning a patient is a major no-no
in some states, starting cpr legally amounts to asserting a claim of some (minimal) level of medical expertise and accepting the person as a patient. abandoning cpr on a patient that has not been legally declared dead is a crime in some states.

good samaritan laws generally protect lay people from attempting cpr and doing it poorly or improperly, but abandoning it and going "back to work"? i don't know about that.

obviously the supervisor is scum and should be fired and possibly sued, but the really despicable part is that the supervisor put the good samaritan in quite a pickle, as they may not face real legal consequences for listening to their boss (who had NO authority over the medical situation).
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Gormy Cuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. Or maybe the supervisor was also afraid of losing his/her job.
The Time-Warner statement says that they have procedures in place. What if the procedure is to do nothing out of fear of liability, as the supervisor claimed? It's those company policies that need scrutiny first before deciding on the apportionment of fault.
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #33
36. true, although i very much doubt that the company policies address
the stopping of cpr.

it might say call 911 and do nothing else, but i very much doubt it says to stop cpr already in progress.


in any event, company policies only govern the employment situation, they don't trump greater law. the worst they can do is fire you, and the most they can do is protect you from being fired. they can't send you to jail or keep you out of jail. if a company policy says to do something criminal, employees and supervisors need to ignore it and abide by the law.
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Gormy Cuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #36
39. Again though, if the policy is hands off and dial 911, the supervisor was doing as expected.
Edited on Sat Oct-15-11 11:28 AM by Gormy Cuss
I'm not arguing that the supervisor's action is defensible, only that the company may not have trained properly on the policy and also may not have a sufficiently explicit policy to handle situations like this and therefore Time/Warner may also be culpable. Too often companies use the zero-tolerance, you-will-be-fired approach to training and that creates fearful staff.



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surrealAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #39
43. I suspect you're right about there being an inflexible ...
... company policy here. The supervisor should still be held accountable, but so should whoever was responsible for writing that policy.


That and the inaccessible defibrillator, and lack of medically trained personnel should be a serious enough issue to have the place shut down as an unsafe workplace.
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #43
72. i don't think most workplaces require medically trained personnel and defibrillators on site.
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surrealAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #72
83. Perhaps not, but why did they have one if it was not required?
It doesn't make sense that they would have a defibrillator for no reason.
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cyglet Donating Member (256 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #33
47. If there's an AED on site
despite it being behind a locked door (WTF), that was NOT the policy.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #47
68. That's right.
Also, when I was taught basic CPR in 7th grade the teacher told us that Good Samaritan laws are there to protect us in case we made a mistake in good faith but that part of making sure that you were considered to be in good faith was that CPR would be continued until either we were too exhausted to continue, or someone else took over for us (that person might be another bystander who you ask to take over because you are exhausted, or more hopefully a paramedic). You don't discontinue assistance.
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Gormy Cuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #47
69. The presence of the AED, locked, may have been an intentionally way of limiting access
to only those employees who have some specific qualification.
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cyglet Donating Member (256 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #69
77. What 'qualifications' does one need
to use an AED?
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Gormy Cuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #77
79. First aid or first responder training?
If a company is concerned about liability, they may want to restrict access to someone who's attended a demonstration of its use. And yes, I do believe that corporations can be more concerned about their liability than potentially saving a life.
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Saving Hawaii Donating Member (87 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #79
87. Have you ever used an AED? The only qualification required is "speak English".
Edited on Sat Oct-15-11 08:12 PM by Saving Hawaii
They're an insanely idiot-proof device. They're designed that way. You pull the machine out of the package and turn it on. It tells you exactly what to do. I realize that people can be idiots, but an AED won't shock unless it's hooked up correctly and observing V-tach or V-fib. That's unmistakable. Neither CPR nor AED usage requires first aid or first responder training. If your knowledge of CPR is "push hard and push fast and aim directly between the nipples" you're doing it good enough. If your knowledge is "push on the chest" and nobody else is stepping in, your helping. As far as the AED goes, all you need to be able to do is hear the spoken instructions the machine gives you and follow them. And an AED won't screw up if you screw up. If you screw up it'll give a "No shock advised, continue CPR". These machines are designed to be used by people who've never seen them before.

Time Warner is about to get their asses handed to them by a good lawyer for threatening a good samaritan into stopping CPR.
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polly7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #87
93. That's exactly right.
Having the machine locked up with a single key to open it boggles my mind.
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cyglet Donating Member (256 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #87
94. Yes, I've not used one
but I was under the impression it was meant to be used by someone untrained in the event of an emergency.
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Saving Hawaii Donating Member (87 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-17-11 02:52 AM
Response to Reply #94
121. Exactly. It tells you in very plain English what you need to do.
You just need to follow the instructions. Anybody who can speak English can effectively use an AED with zero training. That's what they're designed for. Somebody who's trained might move a little faster, but anybody can do it.
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Gormy Cuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #87
99. That's not the point. How did Time Warner view their exposure?
If their policy was to do nothing unless you had some level of training, that would explain why it was locked away.

AS for CPR, I was trained on CPR as a child as part of a first aid program. It's true that even doing it badly is better than standing aside, but I'm not sure most people understand that.
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Saving Hawaii Donating Member (87 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-17-11 02:54 AM
Response to Reply #99
122. The new method is 'push hard and push fast'.
That's about as effective as 30-2 CPR (especially in the first few minutes it may be more effective) and it's easy to remember. You don't even have to know how to do it. Just push as hard and fast as you can. Training can provide valuable finesse but anything is better than nothing and 'push hard and push fast' CPR really improves survival.
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Populist_Prole Donating Member (774 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #33
48. Could be, but there's probably a tendency toward callousness below the surface
Plus, as another poster pointed out, many people lose the ability to think for themselves ( assuming they had it in the first place ) when either fear for their job, or the desire to be a good subordinate is the main concern.

I've noticed it a lot through my working years, though with more benign, obviously less grave consequences: You can tell they know what's really what, but like they "have to" argue with you or oppose you because they have to do what so-and so above said. Now that boss, were he/she there, would probably agree with me/us, but the concubine supervisor just defaults to what he was told and become very irritated just because he was challenged. I don't want to start a regional or provincial war here, but I notice this type behavior is very much more common in the southeast US.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
35. I'm not surprised, this is another example of corporate fascism-Arbeit Macht Frei!/Wisconsin is open
for business!
RECALL SCOTT WALKER!
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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
37. "'Time Warner responded appropriately to a medical emergency'"?!
Dear God, what assholes.
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RagAss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
38. Behold Thy Enemy !!!!
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sce56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
40. US Corporate practices: First they work you to death then they let you die and stop any life saving
attempts by co workers so as not to stop production....

And unfortunately I'm looking at and responding through their system!
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Manifestor_of_Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
42. Reminds me of September 11th.
People in the second tower that was hit saw the first plane hit, in the other tower. They were told they would be fired if they left their jobs and went downstairs and left the building. I think some people did ignore the bosses and get out. But a whole lot more died along with their bosses.

:cry:


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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #42
45. Let the (asshole) bosses die. nt
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greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #42
56. "They were told they would be fired"?
Do you have a source for that claim?
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
49. Damn.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
50. My brother is alive today because his receptionist knew CPR
He suffered a heart attack at work, and the receptionist administered CPR while sending someone else to call 911.
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Aerows Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
51. Nobody on this earth has the right
to tell me not to save the life of another. I don't care who they are - my boss, or otherwise.
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Arkansas Granny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
54. I don't believe I could have complied with the supervisor's "request".
How does someone walk away from that situation just because a supervisor says "go back to work". IMO, supervisor and co-workers both bear some responsibility here.
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stillwaiting Donating Member (591 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
55. She was your FRIEND? You don't treat friends that way. Fuck, I wouldn't treat an enemy that way.
Especially in a state with a Good Samaritan law.
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hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
57. There would be an immediate conflict between me and that stupidvisor.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
58. Sounds like the same mind-set that told WTC employees to remain where they were.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #58
60. Yes--I'm surprised at how many people listen to supervisors against their own better judgment.
Nobody's going to fire you for leaving when a plane crashes into your building, FFS. Nobody's going to fire you for continuing CPR, and if they do, you have excellent grounds for a wrongful termination suit.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #60
82. The answer to the supervisor saying "You're fired!" is...
..."Well, we'll take that question up with *YOUR*
supervisor as soon as I finish here" (with the CPR).

And if that doesn't work, with the next guy up the
line. And so on, and so forth until you reach the CEO.
Or the NYTimes, whichever comes first.

Tesha
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
59. Remind you of another time in America?
Early 1900's before the Unions created themeselves....this is what the Republicans have in store for America......

All of the deregulation they are talking about is about events like this.....

The family of the deceased woman needs to file a civil suit against him and the company.....

The apology from the company...too little and too late.
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BuelahWitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #59
80. Yes, the locked away defibrilator
Edited on Sat Oct-15-11 04:17 PM by BuelahWitch
reminded me of the locked doors of the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory (the person who had the key to the exit wasn't working that day).
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
61. Talk about profit over people, this takes the cake
I'm stunned that any supervisor would be so insensitive and just plain stupid.

Yes, the collective corporate thoughts may be with the family, but they probably are speaking to them on the advice of an attorney.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
62. I don't see this as the fault of the co-worker or Time Warner, I think the supervisor is to blame
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
64. If the supervisor's actions weren't criminal, they should be. If this doesn't dramatically mar the
image of Time Warner, then shame. :patriot:
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
66. Both were wrong
supervisor for giving half assed order and the person who started CPR. You are not to stop until you can't continue due to exhaustion or are relieved.
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cyglet Donating Member (256 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
67. Be fired...or...
have to live with this for the rest of your life?

I wouldn't be listening to the boss.
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earcandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
71. Do they have insurance policy on her?
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slay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #71
81. +1
it's sick - but corporations will do that.
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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
75. I can't understand why the co-worker obeyed the boss.
Can't people think/act for themselves?
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Saving Hawaii Donating Member (87 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #75
84. Because people are fucking scared
They're afraid to lose their jobs. They're afraid to lose their homes. They're afraid that management is going to fuck them over just because they did the right thing. The boss is always right. And even if he isn't right, you'll get canned anyways. Why, oh why can't we have a strong labor movement in this country. We need a country where honest workers aren't constantly cowered into submission by their bosses.
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stockholmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-11 06:15 AM
Response to Reply #84
108. spot the fuck on! and welcome to DU
:hi:
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jeff47 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #75
97. Save this woman's life or feed your family.
One shouldn't be blamed for taking either choice.
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octothorpe Donating Member (358 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-11 06:29 AM
Response to Reply #75
111. That was my initial thought too, but we don't know her overall circumstances...
Her entire family could be relying on her job for food, housing, medical care and everything else. You and I may be able to feel comfortable at losing a shitty job for whatever reason we may have, but I can't judge someone whose situation is unknown.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
86. Time Warner just bought itself a lawsuit.
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ProfessionalLeftist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
88. If I was Ms. Nelson's family, I'd sue the bejeesus out of Time-Wanker. n/t
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
89. Well fuck that vile putrid excuse of a motherfucking human!
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Politicalboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
92. The dead womans family should sue Time Warner
And so should the co-worker. She has to live with the fact that someone died who could have been saved by her.
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hughee99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
95. Holy shit, there's a call center that's still in the US?
Other than the naturally horrifying story, of course, this was the first thing that jumped out at me. I thought they had all been outsourced. People talk about the horrible working conditions in other countries, how about a work environment where dealing with a customer getting double charged for his porn-on-demand movie is more important than saving a co-workers life?
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cyglet Donating Member (256 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #95
98. Having worked in a few....
the supervisors I had were horrible and this is totally believable....I had to follow their rules or else. And everything was always about call times...nevermind you got someone who couldn't master the concept of doubleclicking or whatnot...

I broke their rules, and of course would in this case...

I think most of the cable companies still have US call centers. Comcast and Time Warner do. But it's quite literally a soul crushing environment with high turnover (even in India).
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scentopine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #95
100. They are following the rules in Inda - human life is a disposable commodity for Wall Street -nt
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cyglet Donating Member (256 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #100
101. It's the corporate culture these days
...everyone's disposable, and only thought of as a cost, not an asset.
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scentopine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-11 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #101
103. personnel dept -> human resources -> human capital department
says it all. When you work for a company, it's going to be called the "Dept. of Human Capital".

And it's more and more likely to be headed by an H1B from India who is expert at fucking over employees.
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markpkessinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-11 01:52 AM
Response to Original message
104. What a horrific story - but I don't exactly let the worker who obeyed her boss's unreasonable order
It goes without saying that what this boss did was unconscionable. But to me, so is the fact that the worker who was administering CPR obeyed her boss's order to stop. I'm sorry, but in a circumstance like this, where a person's life was possibly at stake, the moral course is to continue trying to save the person's life, even if you have to disobey your boss to do it and even if it means you may be fired. Do what you can to save the person's life -- then fight it out with upper management later.
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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-11 04:01 AM
Response to Original message
105. Time Warner responded appropriately to a medical emergency. Our company has procedures in place to r
respond to emergencies

Yes, they do.
Let them die
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TomClash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-11 04:45 AM
Response to Original message
106. "Our thoughts are with the family during this difficult time."
The Great Corporate Lie.

Their thoughts are only on the next quarter's earnings and the share price.

They could give a shit if a cog in the machine dies.
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octothorpe Donating Member (358 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-11 06:22 AM
Response to Original message
109. What a disgusting work environment and supervisor.
Is that person (supervisor) even human?
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Modern_Matthew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-11 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
113. Prison for life for this asshole supervisor, please. nt
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BreweryYardRat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-16-11 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
114. Up to three executions are necessary here.
1. Execute the supervisor.
2. Execute whoever made the defib unit inaccessible. (Locked in a closet, no spare key.)
3. Execute whoever set a policy that allows a supervisor to place call quotas over CPR.

Corporate crooks will continue acting in this fashion until the necessary examples are made. And no, prison time won't suffice.
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saras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-17-11 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #114
126. I agree completely with the first one. That was premeditated murder for profit.
The decision-makers certainly need to be removed from power. A lifetime behind the counter at McDonalds would suffice, I think.
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-17-11 02:46 AM
Response to Original message
119. At the last HOSPITAL that I worked in as a NURSE
Our Policy and Procedure for IF an employee were to collapse...is to keep hands off and call 911.

Yeah, I just said that. :(

Yeah for corporate Amerikkka!!!!!

Now, ask me if either myself or my coworkers would risk being fired and break company policy??
The answer is simple...and one that we all discussed when this idiotic policy was implemented.
Hell yes. We would ALL risk being fired to save our coworkers.
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Saving Hawaii Donating Member (87 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-17-11 03:12 AM
Response to Reply #119
123. They may have been doing you a favor!
Edited on Mon Oct-17-11 03:13 AM by Saving Hawaii
;-)

In some parts of this country (Seattle comes to mind) the fire department has a better SCA (sudden cardiac arrest) save rate than the hospitals do. It would be more advantageous to collapse just outside of the hospital and have the firefighters treat you than to have the doctors and nurses inside do that work. Some fire departments consider CPR (and the paramedic portion too) to be butter and bread stuff and they treat it very seriously and are good at it. They practice a lot more than hospital staff do and some have quite a bit more experience. They tend to do resuscitations pretty well.

Those departments are exceptions to the rule though... usually I'd bet my money on the hospital staff. But there are a few that are very good. (Seattle Fire is somewhere around a 50% save rate... most other fire departments are around 5%.)
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-17-11 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #123
127. We were 20 yards away from the cardiac intensive care unit
not only that, but the golden minutes before the paramedics could arrive would have passed.

Mind you--we are/were ALL ACLS trained and certified and were pretty damned good at our job, too.
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