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Your guess for the average rent for a 2 bedroom apt. in Manhattan?

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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 02:32 AM
Original message
Your guess for the average rent for a 2 bedroom apt. in Manhattan?
Edited on Sat Oct-15-11 02:35 AM by pnwmom
More than $4100 in buildings with no doorman, more than $5800 in doorman buildings.

That's more than $48,000 just for yearly rent on a 2 bedroom apartment. (And most 2 bedroom apartments in Manhattan are nothing special.)


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/16/realestate/rents-in-m...

The average rent for a two-bedroom in a nondoorman building is now $4,137, up from $3,560 last September, according to the MNS survey. In doorman buildings, the average rent for a two-bedroom is $5,857, compared with $5,321 a year ago.
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chollybocker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 02:39 AM
Response to Original message
1. Obviously, doormen are the problem.
:eyes:
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Tx4obama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 02:44 AM
Response to Original message
2. And I heard on the news a couple of days ago that ...
Edited on Sat Oct-15-11 02:45 AM by Tx4obama

that something like 50% (?) of the apartments in New York are now owned by investors from over-seas.


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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 06:54 AM
Response to Reply #2
14. I think that 50% might include many of our cities
foreign investors have been busy bees these last 20 maybe 30 years.
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SOS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #2
40. And on the East Side around Fifth and Park Avenues
50% of apartments are empty for at least 10 months a year.

Russian oil magnates and Chinese bankers need a $10 million pad
to crash in for a couple of weeks a year.

The rush of money to the top is perhaps the correct definition of "globalism".


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EdMaven Donating Member (290 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 02:55 AM
Response to Original message
3. And yet the median household income in Manhattan = $47K.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan

So I'd suggest that average rental is skewed by some very expensive rents.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #3
29. Many people in NY share apartments, especially younger people
with lower incomes. And extended families cram themselves into single apartments.

Rents ARE very high for what you get.
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EdMaven Donating Member (290 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #29
43. I'm sure they are. But that's the median *household* income. All households,
including roommate & extended family households.

And if median household income = $47K, that's $3916 a month, which is below both those average rents. So more than half of households are renting something cheaper, assuming they rent.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. Of course half of the households are renting something cheaper,
Edited on Sat Oct-15-11 04:40 PM by pnwmom
since that's the definition of median -- half are above and half are below. But the median apartment prices are far higher than in most of the rest of the country.

And Manhattan is just one of the 5 boroughs of NYC -- so whatever the median income is in NYC isn't the same in Manhattan.

And here's some information on household income -- it's not as simple as it sounds:

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-household-income.htm

It can be challenging to define what constitutes a household, or determine what money is defined as income. A household is not always all people who live in the same house. In most cases, roommates dont pool their resources together, and they have no supportive financial obligation to each other. Theoretically, a big house with ten roommates could generate ten separate household income reports one for each unrelated individual.

On the other hand, household income doesnt necessarily have to be income made by people who are all related. A couple that decides to care for an elderly woman might need to count any income she brings if it is pooled with theirs. In the end, the way people decide what the income of the household is has to do with whether they share the money.
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EdMaven Donating Member (290 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #45
49. not to beat a dead horse or anything, but my original point was that your figures are an *average*
Edited on Sat Oct-15-11 06:29 PM by EdMaven
not a *median*.

If there is one apartment renting for a million a month & three for $1000 a month, *average* rent/mo = $250,000.

An average doesn't necessarily give you a good idea of what the average person pays, or even what *most* people pay.

Since monthly median household income in Manhattan is less than the *average* rent you posted, it actually means that *MORE THAN* HALF OF HOUSEHOLDS ARE PAYING LESS than that supposedly *average* rent (which is higher than the ENTIRE INCOME of half the households in the city).

That average is skewed to the right by some very, very, very expensive rentals.

And the $47K median I posted was for New York County, which *is* Manhattan. Check the link I posted.

Hope I've made my meaning clear.
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Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 03:19 AM
Response to Original message
4. My brother just moved to Central Park and he and his girlfriend pay $1800 a month.
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 03:24 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. thanks for adding recent info. i thought for normal places that would be the case.
obviously depending on how nice the place it I would expect 15-2000 for a 2 bedroom which still sounds like a ton to me!
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Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 03:30 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. More than I can afford!
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #5
28. The $1800, if that's the total price, is an outlier. Prices are going UP
not down.
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stockholmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 03:50 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. $1800 a piece? (and also for what size?) there is NO WAY they pay a total of $1800/month total
for a 2BDRM in Manhattan near Central Park (even if they are north of Central Park in a dodgy part of Harlem) unless someone is either taking a huge loss, or it is a rent-controlled flat rented out illegally, or simply a 'gift rent' on a paid-for flat. $1800 will get a you a small shite studio with a brick wall view in most halfway decent areas of Manhattan.
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 06:58 AM
Response to Reply #9
15. My friends in NY say
its just like London, Paris, Berlin, Copenhagen.

You got to know someone, who knows someone, whwho maybe just maybe you find something but never through normal channels and you need to be at the right place at the right time.


I doubt his brother got the rent deal through normal channels.
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stockholmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #15
20. actually in Berlin (especially the east part), you can get a cracking flat for fairly low rent
The others (especially London) are indeed expensive, although Copenhagen, if you go through a long official list wait (6 to 10 years approx.), it will not be so much. The worst of all I have lived in is currently Hong Kong, which is in a huge bubble, although signs of it cracking are starting to show.

Here in Sweden, especially Stockholm, the lettings market is crazy tight, but if you can find a person who has a flat they first-hand let and will then second-hand let to you (what Americans call sub-lease), they generally will not try to profit off it, or very little. But to find this, you definitely have to know people. If you just go through the papers, or a firm, you will get screwed for double or triple what it actually would first-hand rent for. The list wait is also incredibly long here, a nice inner city stermalm or Vasastaden flat is around a 9 to 12 year wait on the list. Most Swedes will register their children on the list and pay each month to ensure a place.
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Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #9
39. It's $1800/month total for a 1-bedroom studio.
Edited on Sat Oct-15-11 02:36 PM by Initech
And the space is pretty cramped - I've been inside it. The kitchen and bathroom/shower areas are like nothing.
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 06:00 AM
Response to Reply #4
12. basement at the Metropolitain Musem?
You got off cheap.. Those rents are usually for the reptile cages at the zoo...
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DesertFlower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 03:41 AM
Response to Original message
7. my friends pay $3500 for a 1 bedroom --
Edited on Sat Oct-15-11 03:43 AM by DesertFlower
no doorman -- nothing fancy. their daughter lives in brooklyn and pays $2200 for a 1 bedroom.

when we moved from queens 22 years ago our 2 bedroom, 1-1/2 bath was $505 with free gas, electric and 3 air conditoners.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 03:45 AM
Response to Original message
8. so about 2000 for each person , how much would 1 bedroom or small studio apts ?
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KurtNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 08:00 AM
Response to Reply #8
21. Studio is $1400 to $2000; 1-bedroom $2000 to $2800
That's Manhattan below 110th. A 2-bdrm in Williamsburg is around $2000.
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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 04:40 AM
Response to Original message
10. Supply and demand
The obvious answer is to increase the size of Manhattan. :sarcasm:
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FarCenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 07:49 AM
Response to Reply #10
19. Remove building restriction and rent controls, and you'd increase supply
But actually, the real estate investors like a constrained supply, so they'll keep the politicians from changing anything.
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Unrepentant Fenian Donating Member (707 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 05:06 AM
Response to Original message
11. WOW !!!
I would imagine that Manhattan would be a great place to live for about 6 months, but I don't think I would want to live there much longer...
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bluestate10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 07:07 AM
Response to Reply #11
18. Manhattan is constantly buzzing. I love all parts of that part of NYC. nt
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ET Awful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 06:50 AM
Response to Original message
13. The sad part is that you could rent the same apartment in Harlem
a block or two north of the "border" and pay 40% less.

A lot of Harlem is a far cry better than it's "old" reputation would have you believe too.
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bluestate10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 07:05 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. Does Bill Clinton still have an office in Harlem? nt
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #13
34. Even apartments in Harlem rent for luxury prices compared to comparable
apartments in other cities.
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walerosco Donating Member (449 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 07:05 AM
Response to Original message
17. Location location location
The 3 L of real estate. You can come down to Omaha where the average price is $600 :)
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FreeStateDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 08:07 AM
Response to Original message
22. That is a big reason why people commute long distances to work all over the country.
So simply don't live in Manhattan or other expensive urban areas like the rest of us poor people. I use to drive 100 miles a day to work in the Washington, DC metro area because it was far too expensive for my income.
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Abin Sur Donating Member (647 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 08:17 AM
Response to Original message
23. You can keep Manhattan.
I'll stick to the mountains west of Denver. I can't imagine actually *wanting* to live in such a densely packed metropolis, but to each their own...
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. Just give me that countryside.
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Abin Sur Donating Member (647 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. Heh...didn't realize I was channeling Eddie Albert
And while I prefer seeing elk in my yard rather than Arnold Ziffel, I would still gladly live in Hooterville than in NYC...
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blueamy66 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #23
38. Absolutely.
spot on
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DesertFlower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #23
42. i lived in queens, ny for 48 years. then
we moved to phoenix. we live on 2-1/2 acres with beautiful views. before we left NY i was beginning to feel "closed in".
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cherokeeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #23
55. I could never live in a hive like that. Everyone on top of each other, snarling traffic...
My little burg in the mountains is about five miles from one end to the other. Four lane Main Drag.

On Sunday afternoons the tourists start heading back down the hill to Los Angeles and points south.

On my commute (all of 2.5 miles) to work, if I see five cars, it's considered a traffic jam.

New York City? It might be a nice place to visit, but... uh uh.
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Seedersandleechers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 08:26 AM
Response to Original message
24. My son has a two bedroom apt. in the west village
which I call "the closet". It is also "rent controlled" at $2600 a month. A bargin at that. Say what you will - I love to visit!
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
25. Too damn high
:hide:
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. Heh heh...


"The rent is too damn high!"

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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
30. When I was a kid in the 1950s, we paid $86 a month for 2 bedrooms
Rent-controlled apartment. Upper West Side. Living room, kitchen, and two bedrooms. Shortly before we moved out, the rent went up to $93 because they'd put in a new stove.

Last I checked, two-bedroom apartments in that building were going for $3000 a month. Going by the OP, it's probably up to $3500 or $4000 by now.

I wonder if that apartment still has the old washtubs built into the kitchen and the dumbwaiter that goes up and down a shaft to collect the day's trash or if they've spiffed it up along the way.

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anamandujano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #30
46. In the early 70s
I had a 3 bedroom 5th floor walkup near Cooper Union for $275/mo divided by 3, had 2 roommates. Then I moved to a studio in Chelsea, also 5th floor walkup, for $170/month. I guess I was able to enjoy Manhattan while it was still affordable for low wage folks.
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FarLeftFist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
32. THE RENT IS TOO DAMN HIGH!
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ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
33. Just one more reason not to live there.
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clinton4life2011 Donating Member (31 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
35. Wall Street...
The only way to afford the place! haha
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surrealAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
36. Is this mean or median?
... and what's the range?
I can't figure it out from this article.
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blueamy66 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
37. Holy crap!!
Edited on Sat Oct-15-11 02:29 PM by blueamy66
I pay $600 for a 1600 sq foot, 3 bed, 2 bath house in AZ.

on edit: that is a house payment....not rent

We have awesome restaurants and theaters and the like...the weather sux at times and our gov is an idiot....but holy crap!!!$4k a month!!!
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rugger1869 Donating Member (71 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
41. Rent is free....
At Zuccotti Park.
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Nye Bevan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
44. Nobody *needs* to live in Manhattan. Doing so is a luxury for those who can afford it..
And like any luxury it is not cheap.

There are much, much cheaper places to live easily accessible by excellent public transportation. Jersey City, Hoboken, Long Island City, Brooklyn, etc. Living in Manhattan is for those who are rich enough that they can afford to pay a premium price to avoid or reduce commuting.
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leftyladyfrommo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
47. You can still get a pretty decent apt. in KC for $600
$5800 would get you a mansion of an aprtment.
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
48. I absolutely love Manhattan and think it is one of the most fantastic places on the face of the eart...
Edited on Sat Oct-15-11 06:06 PM by Douglas Carpenter
but even if I was fabulously independently wealthy - I just don't think I could ever justify to myself spending that kind of money. I can't help but think that a big part of what makes a place like New York so fantastic is undermined by these kinds of exorbitant cost. New York is fantastic largely because of the way it can attract such a colorful, interesting and eclectic sampling of the human race. This kind of expense is going to limit who can and will live there and inevitably make that colorful, interesting and eclectic sampling less colorful, interesting and eclectic.

I will just have to settle for living in a colorful, serene multi-cultural tropical paradise with minimal crime where my well maintained furnished two-bedroom apartment cost $500 per month.
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Orangepeel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
50. I'd rather know the median than the average
although no doubt the median is still super high.
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Shagbark Hickory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
51. That would be the mortgage payment on a 15 bedroom estate here.
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taught_me_patience Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
52. My sister pays 5,500/mo for a 2bd/2ba in Tribeca
It's really expensive to live in NYC.
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RebelOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
53. I never wanted to live in NYC. It's a great place to visit,
but not to live. I cannot stand the traffic and hustle and bustle of the crowds. And the subways always smelled of urine.
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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
54. You shouldn't use average, you should use median.
They are not the same thing, statistically. The median would be much more reflective of what most people would likely pay.

Not to go all stat-wonky on you but some data is so skewed by extreme values that using the average (or mean) is wrong. It's true of data like income or rents, especially in a city like New York with a lot of expensive property.

I think the author of the piece is the one making the error, not you but the criticism is valid.
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totodeinhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
56. How do they expect average people to afford that? Most people make less than that in wages every
month. What is a person on Social Security supposed to do in Manhattan? Sleep on a park bench?

The average here in Elko for a two bedroom is $800, so two people on Social Security sharing a two bedroom might barely afford that. But $4100? That's obscene.
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Nye Bevan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. They don't expect average people to afford that.
Average people live in Jersey City or Queens.
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totodeinhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #57
58. So then Manhattan is a ghetto for the rich. There is something wrong with a society like ours that
has enclaves for the rich while everyone else has to fend for themselves.
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-15-11 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
59. Estimated median household income for Manhattan in 2009: - $68,706 (it was $47,030 in 2000)
Estimated median household income in 2009: $68,706 (it was $47,030 in 2000)

Manhattan:
$68,706
New York:
$54,659

Estimated per capita income in 2009: $61,992


Read more: http://www.city-data.com/city/Manhattan-New-York.html#i...

-------------------------------

Manhattan, New York (NY) income, earnings, and wages data


Read more: http://www.city-data.com/income/income-Manhattan-New-Yo...


...........................
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